Gun Buyer Blues (retailer expectations )
 

So as to not Sully gun sales threads.

Posted by McGuyver Earlier

I think everyone reading this and especially those dealing with these individual sellers on ASC need to be understanding, infact, way beyond understanding.

Two years ago, you could pick and chose what retailer you wanted, there were lots. Retailers could specialize in 1 brand of AEG and be rather successful at it. There were thousands of guns for sale in Canada. Hell, I remember retailers bringing in 700 guns at a time (I saw the skids). Now, retailers have been getting progressively smaller and smaller, each cycle being weeded out by the CBSA and the dollar, until you have a "retailer" bringing in what 5-10 guns at a time?

But yet, things are still good, no problems with getting airsoft guns in Canada, right?

People who have not dealt with the CBSA need to understand that things are not just cut and dried. Promises on timelines are unrealistic at best, despite best efforts and intentions. "Retailers" need to realize that timelines for product arrival and shipping are a waste of time and will only cause you grief, as evidenced by this and pretty much every other "retailer" thread I've read.

Buyers - allow retailers reasonable time (a week is not reasonable at all, not even 2).

"Retailers" - stop making promises on timelines on product arrival and shipping.

These aren't the "old days" where you could order a dozen in-stock guns on Tuesday and have them to play with on Saturday. And it isn't Sear's Catalog Services either. The normal rules and expectations of internet/mail ordering don't apply here. Lower your expectations or be prepared for these kinds of threads.

Sorry for jacking a sales thread, but goddammit, someone had to say this.


All I can say is this proliferation of small sellers is good for us.. and all it would take to get them to quit is dealing with "instant gratification" demands of purchasers.

All of the little sellers are doing this way on the side. after hours , during time they certainly could be doing something else like trying to maintain positive relationships with people they care about.

Be thankfull you can buy a NIB GBB or AEG and get it in a reasonable time, Be thankful that these guys are sticking their necks out FOR YOUR HOBBY.

Cut these guys a mile of slack... they deserve it and if you want them to continue to supply your needs I think that we should lay off the belly aching that your gun arrived on friday when you expected it to arrive on tuesday.

Some guys have legitimate beefs... but keep it between the buyer and seller. where it should be.


Sellers, stop making promises that you can't keep.

Say things like "shipped as soon as practical after payment received" and "I will inform you when your item is shipped and provide a tracking number then".

and "if you have not heard from me its because your item is not shipped yet, I do this part time and my job and family come first"

Sellers.. you know the demand is huge.. that you can sell every thing you bring in.. do it on your terms. terms that you can manage.

and finally KEEP EM COMING, I GOT A TAX REFUND ON THE WAY!!

well said! i cry a single tear of joy at this post!

And tons of profit.

woot woot. great thread and post lol

Not what you think. I'd venture to say nowhere near what you think.

Profit in airsoft only comes from volume, directly from a manufacturer or distributor. Guys buying small numbers 1s and 2s, don't get volume discounts, especially if they have to buy from a retailer in the U.S. or HK.

Most of these guys likely don't have a license themselves, and would have to cover brokerage, shipping, duty and exchange, then slide a little cash to the license-holder to keep the wheels greased and turning.

Everyone seems to think that the retailer makes scads of cash. Try dealing with the government on multiple levels with these guns (at least 3 different agencies ready and waiting to take a big wet bite out of your wallet).

Like Brian said, they are sticking their neck out, more for the love of the sport than for it's profit, I promise you that.

Signed.

Fuck, people are impatient nowadays.

Be thankfull of what you can get, and if you need something ASAP buy used.

couldn't be more correct - quoted for truthiness.

+1 to everything in this thread so far.

I would love to see some major retailers, though. Not for the convenience, but for the peace of mind. For some reason a major operation involved in airsoft seems to make me feel more comfortable about the survival of our sport. Probably (most definitely) just me.

I see this is addressed to the Google Generation. I remember when I was a kid, I ordered some stuff from a catalogue, it took 6-8 weeks, that wasn't even including the week or two it took for the order to get to the place by mail. I was happy when it arrived in 7 and a half.

Now people just expect everything handed to them immediately and expect instant results. I dunno, maybe some of us are more patient than others, or have had enough old school mail order experience to know that all things like this take a shit load of time.

I ordered my SR-25 and was told "a huge maybe" on getting it before Keystone (it was a month away when I ordered it). Well it came in three weeks after keystone and I only got it in my hands two more weeks after that. Two months and a week. That's 9 weeks. :D

And that was while stuff was still rather plentiful and easy to come by.

Large operations only raise flags and when that happens the government will shut it down.

Just be smart when you buy - check feedback, avoid pre-orders unless the seller has a good feedback or is known.

you can say that again. i'm not gonna step into the puddle for the 3rd time. Also, from the past to the present; we're still managing to get guns in country some way or another and the prices have hovered around the same price for the longest i can remember. I'm happy.

I suppose it would be better if they paid us to take their extra guns off their hands..

I don't care how much profit they make ... they have something I want. I pay the price to get it.

If I think it is too much I don't buy.

Belly aching about how much it costs to invest in a hobby indicates that it is not a hobby that is affordable to the whiners.

All the cool hobbies are expensive.

1. Airsoft
2. Hookers and blow. (cheap compared to airsoft, but you still get the red dots afterwards)
3. Real guns
4. CNC machines (well, its fun for me)

+100000000 I gladly pay for the branded version. I should ask my cousin to take some pictures of prices in HK at the markets. JG's are selling for 100-200 HKD.

That's for the even lower-end China manufactured goods.

Try at least 400HKD depending on the model for Jing Gong.

So long as comms are good, I'm okay.

I waited 3 months for my PTW. I don't know why everyone is crying over 4 days.

I myself been vary happy with the sellers on ASC... Most are just out there to help out the sport, by supporting the retail side in getting in AEG's or GBB's at what ever cost to them as well... Like Mopic or LaGross and so on... And remember Tru, That guy would bend over back words to get what you needed and at the best price... ;) Bless his Pimping days! lol
So to the guys that are impaiceant.... Give the seller a brake! There, there for you!

As long as there is good communication between me and the seller...

I would not trust 007Airsoft for this reason.

You run a business, you must take care of your clients and of your own business... if not, maybe this isn't for you : you better close it down.

Maybe you should re-read the first post.
These are not "businesses" like they used to be. Ken has been around for a long time but don't think his operation hasn't changed to reflect the new reality being discussed here.
You are free to deal with anyone you like, but make sure your expectations are realistic.

There is a difference
 

Between communication and hand holding.

the way some people behave its like their life savings are tied up in the gun they just ordered.

Order it pay for it, wait for it.

I suspect one of the reasons A&A got out of the biz was due to the 200 e-mails and calls a day from people who ordered a gun and the next day started with the

"is it in yet? how bout now? what about now? .... ok I'll wait ... um what about now? hey why are you ignoring me? hey.. I paid you a tiny insignificant amount of money.. you should be treating me like I'm your only customer. Hey hey... oh... ok its not in yet.. ok... um what about now? .. is it in now? how bout now? hey you're ignoring me again... ok thats it.. now I'm pissed off.. you are a bad business man.. I will never deal with you again... oh... hey here is my gun...WOW i'm so happy... thats great.. can I buy another one?"

I know I would not have 5 minutes to waste on such idiots.

Public conflicts for private commerce
 

In my opinion, people are way too quick to air their greivances in public.

Posting on here is the equivelant of taking out a full page ad in the local newspaper calling a particular retailer a crook and a cheat.

I don't know all the issues.. but I do know that by and large Mopic has made good on the transactions in question.

You can't take back what you say. Its posted, public and stays public for all to see. Which is very different than a phone call.. or a face to face meeting where issues can be resolved between the partys and frustration stated and then as every spoken word.. becomes just air.

"Carry on " all of you!

Sorry, but I saw things from the "inside" for 2 solid years. I paid invoice cost for guns, which not as low as you might think. I didn't pay a portion of the freight, nor brokerage, nor tax either.

I know how much these things cost when they land at your "retailer's" door.

And I wouldn't do it for $50-$100 per gun (on the bigger stuff, not the clone junk).

We need the retailers or this sport is going to evaporate. Considering the risks, I don't begrudge them the profit. You're risking the wrath of the CBSA and your business. I could import AEGs and PTWs as well; I know where they come from and how they arrive, but is it worth the risk to me? Nope. Thank goodness there are those who do it - for our sake. Then there is warrantying an item that you essentially have zero possibility of returning to a manufacturer, so the retailer takes on that liability as well.

I buy used, in country from reputable members who I know and who I have recourse with.. Airsoft guns are like cars, you drive them off the lot, take 25% off what you just paid. I also wait until someone has a firesale and needs instant cash (transmission busted, mortgage payment overdue, sex change operation) and drive a good deal.

Yea, +1 to that. I remember a thread a while back where someone did a price comparison of the, er, "markup" of certain Chinasoft vs. 'brand name' AEGs. I think for the JLS FN2000 it was about 7x (700%), whereas a Classic Army gun (can't remember the model, it was an Armashite of some sort) was like 1.9x (190%). Yea, the China guns are cheaper, but comparitively you pay more for them.

I do this as well. It's face to face mainly for me, less risk.

I've not had a bad experience buying via internet luckily.

I have bought and sold an AEG for the exact same price after I had a great year of playing out of it.

I've also sold nice stuff for cheap, because when I put it ($) out there freely I seem to get it back tenfold.

Though I regretted selling Manchovie My 33E for a great price when he paid me in loonies and twoonies the fucker.

I've never been too impatient to wait, sure it sucks, but when ya get it you just don't feel so bad for hugging, stroking and loving the thing. My beef has always been with the costs and how sometimes they make no sense; and I have looked into importation and the licensing. And sometimes it just never makes any damn sense.

IE. a PTW here costs $2400, but only $1600 in the states. Thats an $800 increase that I can't seem to allocate entirely ALL of which where its going. I mean, the State retailer who gets this stuff in bulk will have paid his import taxes and shipping costs already, and yes both can be different. But Lets say its 5% difference on import taxes, thats still only $80 more. Say it costs another $20-40 in shipping thats $120. Now I've found different costs on the importation license, some reports have said $5,000 some have said $10,000. At $10,000 say guy sells 100 guns per year, AEG, GBB, BA, what ever it is. Its only $100 per unit if you flat rate it ((would make selling springers hard if you did that)) So there's $220, whered the other $580 come from?

Another point is, when I inquired about ordering a Tanaka M700 A.I.C.S. ((Only gotten one reply so far)), and the cost is $1050. Now the same gun in the States you can get for $500, but thats all I see as confusion for this rifles cost price. It would start at $435 in HK from Redwolf. Cost to ship it here by itself, $46.96. Taxes, well I don't have the EXACT import percentage, but I'm told its basically GST, fine, we'll do 10% to keep math light and make sure its more than enough. $43.50. So there's roughly $100 in shipping/taxes, and say agian $100 for the import license. That's $200 on the one gun.

Here's another thing that gets me, why is the PTW, probably the most expensive gun that swims in the Canadian airsoft market not taxed so much?

For instance, that M700 starts at $435, with tax, shipping, and everything else added on is $1050, meaning a total $615 extra funds. Litterally the shipping and tax + profit is GREATER than that of the gun starting from a retailer in HK. Where as the PTW CQBR Max starts at $1455 and here costs $2400 or more, being $945 increase. Why if all things equal is the taxation and shipping costs greater than that of the gun for the AICS than the PTW? It can't cost more to ship the PTW CQR Max which ways 1kilo less in the gun alone. I did try to get a shipping quote through Redwolf as well to compare, but shipping is free on all PTW's there, hmm or just not charged.


Again, I'm not out to bash any of the retailers individually, its just frustrating when you see inconsistencies in pricing and costs. From some of the people that bring in the guns, costs are great and not too big to wolf down, but some are just too outrageous and all that means is I don't buy from them; simple as that. As for waiting, thats never been an issue, unless communication on it sucks, then its a big negative on that.

As for people saying its not a business, it still is, perhaps not an official business since that can venture into a lot of legalities, but it is still your person business when you are buying and selling items, be it for personal or professional ends. IE. you walk into the grocery to buy a bottle of coke, you're conducting business, in Canada we have different sense of retail than other parts of the world, but I can tell you right now there are places where you CAN barter the cost of a coke! And the retailer will LOVE you for doing it.

I'm happy to see more paws in the jar for getting guns into the sport lately, and hope to see more. And before anyone gets to crazy on me, I don't want to see some guns going for next to nothing either, one of my biggest dislikes for JG is that they were TOO cheap. Because of that they'd let more people who may not be mentally there for this game into the door. When it takes some time, patience and will to save up a few hundred dollars for the gun and then more money for the gear it tends to weed out some of the sort that airsoft doesn't want/need to see. This has been another rambling of

- Dracheous

Dont retailers need a business license to operate their websites??? yeah its great that they do this but if you say you gonna do something then do it or just stay quiet and not do it. you cant go out a promise a service then not deliver. I donno that my 2 cents after my dealings with A&A. oh well time to enjoy 420 day.

PTWs are about $1800 now. And they are made in Japan, so tariffs are going to be less than if it's made in Taiwan or China.

Way back when, I remember an ICS M4 coming from AE in the U.S. costing about $300 Canadian with exchange. Then came 7% GST, and 7% brokerage, then $20 per gun shipping. That came to $362. Next came the big one, duty. For Taiwan, it was 30%. So add on $90 more for a grand total of $452. These guns sold for $600 retail, and I remember a Christmas special where they were $499 with a battery. The RIS/C-15 cost $375 + the extras, and it sold for $700 retail, or $599 at Christmas without a battery.

KSC Glock 19 used to cost $187 to get it to the door, and they used to sell for $299 full retail, but $249 was more the norm in those days (2004-2005).

This is before all the costs of getting a license, having a storefront with security and a vault of some form (required by law for the "license"). No licenseholder can work out of the house, you must be an established "brick and mortar" business. This costs money, a ton of money, money that you don't get back from making $50-$100 per gun, I can tell you that for sure.

Why do you think we have clones in Canada? Because the public wanted them? Not even close. How about return on investment. The clone that costs you $300 costs the dealer at most $150. That's why. The older, established brands never had anywhere close to that margin, that's why dealers don't have them.

Perhaps Mcguyver, but why the excessive price gouge on every day guns then?

Why is a TM M4 nearly 150% increase in price to the door and the PTW ((if at your $1600 price)) only a 25% increase? That's a huge difference and in my eye is the only bullshit with retailers in recent years. Not waiting, or having trouble contacting people because thats all small things that people just have to accept that is the way the world just works. If should say that PTW are not paying as much as others are for importation than those that import TM and the like I call shinnanigans, because fewer PTWs are typically sold than TM's if both had the same availability. Simply because more people can afford $500 over $1800. If retailers sold guns at the better costs they'd sell much faster, I remember what ASCA had a shipment come in and with in two weeks "out of stocks" were EVERYWHERE again. And their prices were very decent.

The answer is simple, if you don't think its a good deal, don't buy it.

I've already said that Scarecrow :P. Because if you search long enough, what your looking for pops up in the classifieds anyway. Or, you drop all the money and the next day the thing you ordered pops up for less >.<.

Where is Marui these days in Canada? Or G&P, or Classic Army? Nowwhere to be found. The trend is either the PTW (via group order) or clones via "retailers". Airsoft in Canad is not about volume sales at minimal profit. The law does not allow for volume importation, the guys who tried are gone now, because they did it. You have to sell 1s and 2s as that's all you can get.

Funny, how people are still complaining about price gouging now. When we have what, 30 guns at most available for sale form "retailers". The complaining was going on when we had 1,000 guns for sale from 20 retailers. Nothing has changed about the law, the CBSA or CRA from then until now. So why the shock over the prices still being high?

But the risk to import and sell has increased.

Those who don't like it can get a business, get a license and try it for themselves. Until then, there is absolutely nothing you can do but take what you're given. Or find another hobby. It's a sad reality to be forced to take anything, but that's exactly where we are, isn't it?

there used to be 20 retailers in canada!? now thats a shocker

I feel if communication is good I am more than satisfied to wait,but I
would wait around three weeks before I send off a pm just for a update.
It would be good to send a pm to the person about the item you are
ordering before committing yourself.:cool:

Prices are set by
 

The market.

If you don't like the price don't buy.

The problem is that the demand is high and the supply is low. This drives the price up.

In the USA and in Asia, there are no supply pressures. Supply can meet demand so the pressures are competative between retailers. This keeps prices low.

It is not gouging to charge the "market price" for an object.

When there were a number of retailers around.. most of them belonged to a cartel that fixed prices.. there were no downward price pressures as demand still outstripped supply. The all agreed to a common pricing structure as they were for the most part all sourcing from the same broker.

Now, we see a proliferation of smaller retailers that are competing .. but it won't take them long to figure out they don't have to. Every gun they birng in has a buyer, at a low price and at a high price.

If you were selling and you knew you could make $100 or $150 for selling the same thing.. would you choose to make less?

It is irrational to presume that the guys taking the risk to import and sell will do so for anything other than profit. They should charge as much as the market will pay.

I've just so recently tried one of these private dealers with much success!

Honest about the time period for importation with included risks and refund policy on seizure.

I called this guy at 9am on a Sunday and chated for over 30 mins! Wicked customer service.

Anyhow folks good service and good prices are out there just have to find the right retailer.

And when you do, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!

Me 2 Bitz

http://duality.quadoshock.com/wp-con...5/merchant.jpg

Blame Canada. TV Comparison time again.

Best Buy US: LG - 50" 720p Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV 50PG20 $1,399.99

Best Buy Canada: LG 50" Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV** (50PG20) $1,999.99

600 dollar difference. Same TV. Not a restricted/ hard to import item. It's not just airsoft, it's everywhere in Canada as a whole.

Some people just look at the sticker price, throw a fit and then get all teary eyed before taking the time to compare other items. The reason I used TV's is that they closer match the prices. You can use other items and find the same sort of pricing difference. Our dollar's worth the same-ish, yet we pay significantly more for everything.

It's not airsoft retailers... It's Canadian economics.

re: Gun Buyer Blues (retailer expectations )
 

Absolutely agree on many of these issues except for maybe this... It is not always practical to keep legitimate beefs between the buyer and the seller where they should be. If either party chooses to ignore PM’s and email communications, the issue needs to be communicated somewhere and the sales thread is typically the accepted place. It is like standing at the store sales counter transacting business. If the parties wish to avoid the disadvantages of this then they would do well to keep up with the more discreet forms of communication. Having said that, I am not sure what business anyone who is not actually transacting business with a seller really has posting in his sales thread. I understand some folks love to post their opinion on stuff, but something like “good on you for putting up with the BS…” is considered chatter and is not typically allowed on classified threads. Specific “Gun buyer blues” situations are not your business unless they are posted in the trader rating and you are considering purchasing from the seller.
It's OK to have an opinion without posting it.

We from shootSOFT!!!
 

We from shootSOFT!!!


We think airsoft is one of the best sports there is!! For that we try to give access to every one the possibility to have an AEG at a fair price!!

Since few weeks we all see a lot of new small retails growing… and this good for all of us!!

shootSOFT start in last December in a time where airsoft was in difficulty! From that time we have grow and serve more than hundred members from ASC!! Always with more than they expect, you could have a view on what they think of us here http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=50926

Telling you we will ship in the next 48Hrs… False… That why we always ask for a 20 business days before shipping! Stock or not!!

We will always try to have the best price there is for are community!! For that we try to negotiate the best deal with Hong Kong!


One of the promises we want to keep is the respect of the 20 business days!!
If we could not ship in that delay we will accept to refund you and we will contact you as soon we will be ready to ship your order!!

Yes we take costumer order… please don’t ask us price only to know how much it will be!! This cost us time!!! Time will be charge at the end!!! To figure out how much it will be… simple x3!!! No it not always like this… when you will be in the way to buy… We will be please to calculate you the best price!!

We from shootSOFT will try every thing to serve you the same way we would like to!!!

Christian and Jay
shootSOFT team

Another Shameless Plug........ BTW not the retailer I was speaking of above.

Not saying shootsoft does not offer a great service mind you.

You're right... should just keep my nose out of it..

This is my remedy for good communications with a private seller.

I typically will require

Full name , full address, Telephone # Home work and cell and an e-mail address before I will send money.

I will not require this If the seller is vouched for by someone I know well who had an opinion I value.

If you purchase something from a stranger with nothing but a nickname on a forum to communicate by... its a recipe for frustration.

I will definitely be adopting this good practice in the future. Trader ratings alone are a fickle indicator and most folks seem reluctant to raise negative feedback (particularly when you could be partnered up at the next skirmish).

The airsoft sales thing is not easy, you make sales and delivery times based on the market conditions at that time. Many things can happen, shipments sometimes get held up. Communications is another issue, as an individual buyer you are concerned only with one purchase (Your Own) try responding to 75-100 phone calls, pm's, and emails a day, not easy. You ask people in your threads to email and not to Pm, but they do anyway, you ask people to keep sales threads clear, but they don't so that means you are trying to answer questions, and inquiries on three different mediums.

I personally am in a job that does not have computer availability, I check my threads and emails in the evening after work and ship 8-10 packages in the morning.

A little patience is needed, I am aware that there have been some retailers that have engaged in fraud in the past, but it is not right that current retailers should be put through the third degree and treated as though they are the next conman.

As for profit, most retailers buy at U.S. retail prices, add tax delivery and other wonderful fees a 300.00 AEG is at $500.00 by the time it gets here.

Lets not talk about risk. Anyone here want to run a 20% risk that you may loose a $12,000 dollar order each and everytime you buy?

Also, don't ask for a discount just for the sake of asking for a discount. I know that retailers on here have posted the the lowest possible price that they can realistically sell an item for.

Don't like the prices don't buy as everyone has said above.

Importing & selling airsoft takes time + patience and a whole lot of money out of your own pocket.

On a commercial scale where your goods typically take a week to arrive in the license holders hand you're probably hiring a customs broker to go through the whole process & that will just piss the CBSA off alot more and have your 'business' on surveillance.

Unless you're importing on a non-commercial basis than the costs will be alot less, however it may take anywhere from 2-4 weeks before you get clearance of your goods which just adds to the whole time factor.

Importing airsoft from China has become popular these days because of the market - first there was BuyAirsoft.ca and than A&A who were the first two to increase the price for clones so much - when they first emerged in Canada they were going between $180 - $260. Surprisingly though people still bought them and the bar has been raised.

More importantly though for the sellers and as mopic has mentioned:
Airsoft from China costs less to import and is more readily available from distiributors worldwide. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable knowing that you are only going to be $5000 in the hole than $10,000 plus? It's because of these guns you see LESS pre-orders for guns. Last thing sellers want is having their inboxes full everyday from people worried about if their guns made it through the torturous process of the CBSA.

It is only here in Canada that they are still frowned upon by the high rollers here yet in Asia they are more common than your typically brands. Aftermarket upgrade parts are again readily available and everyone there is always upgrading their toys to the tits.

When you're considering all of this - when there are better margins to be made by importing certain guns I believe anyone here would want to see the best out of the headaches etc. put in to all this.

Oh yeah, stop whining about the prices people.

I fully understand the risks taken by the vendors and why they need their higher margins to cover for those risks. I also understand the market. If you have the money to spend, you certainly can get whatever gun you want, however there is always the bitter taste that you know the gun retails outside Canada, just over the border in the U.S. for less than 50% most of the time.

When I know the JG G36 sells for $99 in the U.S. and Canadian dealers sell it for $350 as that seems to be a price the market has settled on, my wallet just can't reconcile with that very easily. For items that cost that little in the first place, one might as well take the risk of importing it themselves. I appreciate the dealers but margins like that just don't go over well with some people despite it making perfect sense and given the climate in this country - reasonable.

For these guys to be pricing clones in the sub-$400 range is very, very good.
The marui's and ca's may be pricey but the retailers take ENORMOUS personal risk with them and make less profit per unit than they do with clones. I was surprised to see them for sale.
I stuck to clones because of the higher markup and the lower cost if they were lost to customs. As do they mostly.
I took pre-orders on the condition that if I could not deliver on a date, a full refund would be given but most of the time I would have it in stock before posting . I NEVER used or risked client money as I only paid for the guns once they were in Canada (for which I paid a premium that added significantly to my cost for the guns). Most other pre-orders are not done this way so they are a huge risk and I can't imagine why anyone would go that route.

Anybody whining about prices should try to do better themselves.
Oh, it's 12 cents in china? Great! Get me ten! Go take a risk, show some initiative. I'll happily pay you!

Until then, SUCK IT UP. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

I applaud the retailers. GOOD JOB GUYS!

I will say that to avoid trouble, don't post anything for sale until it's in your hands. Simple.

I say ... HERE!!! HERE!!! to all the retailers on ASC.

And CHEERS!!!! to Ya.

open the market
 

Ultimately when airsoft has better recognition by local, provincial, and federal government as a safe form of recreation then the market will open up and prices will come down because there will be more suppliers. Once people know there is safe/clear legal grounds for import then there will be way more importing by suppliers and it will all be good.

I would say Canadian buyers are just victims of supply and demand.

In theory and in practice things do go by that way.

But we are not victims of supply and demand . We are victims of the grey side of the law that has put Airsoft under Firearm Replicas.

If anything its not the market should open up. It can't with current state of the law. I remember a vet on this forum once said that the laws not going to change anytime soon and if it did it was just be more restrictions.

It seems its easier to put restrictions than re-write a law

I hear that. The law has depressed the supply and I definitely think you're on point if the law changes it will most likely be further restriction.

I think I am just down with venting for now and hoping that things don't get worse later!

Things can't really get any worse at this point. They got worse about 3 years ago, and everyone stuck their head in the sand, said "The sky isn't falling".

Well, it fell, and all that's left is a couple new guns, lots of old "village bicycle" guns, and the clear stuff.

Yayyy!!! I'm waving a little flag now!

Things aren't so bad as you think. Prices are better actually and the Clear gun (Cansoft) is on the rise. Theres really nothing wrong with them. They have the same guts just a different body which can be easily modded with a metal body.


(Side note: Please no arguments on how you don't like Cansoft. It will just cause a thread to be locked)

np with cansoft here. Actually I was thinking that the only unfortunate thing about cansoft is that it probably sidelines the manufacture's process to switch from their usual stuff to cansoft which probably adds to the price of cansoft guns...just a guess. But at least they make them.

I would rather pay $700 for a G&P gun and have 50 to chose from in 7 models, than pay $625, have none to chose from, with little to no special order options.

And where are all these magical metal bodies to mod the clear guns? Where are they?

I'll tell you, they aren't in Canada, and if there are a very few of them around, they are used or not worth the inflated price.

People who don't want to hear about clear guns (Cansoft is a ridiculous term) should plug their ears and go "LaLaLaLa!!"

excuse me i should say clear guns.

No magic needed, just need the right friends.

Cansoft may sound ridiculous but you knew what I was talking about when I wrote it. Its a coined term, shunned by those who do not like it, thats fine. It will be used anway, and have seen it used in other threads.

Clear guns are no impediment to playing the game...

and import restrictions are no impediment to serious collectors of full metal replicas.

There is always a way ...

Personally I have experienced 0 trouble getting anything I desire .. all it takes is $ and time.

QFT. I have never had any trouble getting whatever I want, and I've had some strange requests. It isn't hard to find someone who can get you what you want.

And since we know time = $. Then we also know that all it takes is $ and $. Which explains our high Canadian prices...have we come full circle on this one?

With a little work, you can get WHATEVER you want.

Agreed. There is little barrier to obtaining any item you want, other than price. The issue is a lot of buyers really want an item, but do not want to prepay. Try ordering from any retailer stateside, somthing that is obscure and not very popular and see if they arn't going to ask for a prepayment.

As for prices, most retailers buy their products amd pay retail price for them

A $300.00 AEG X1.9% (state taxes) = $327.00 X exchange rate 1.22% = $398.94, not to mention shipping it up, and shipping to the buyer (another $50.00) So $450.00 without one cent of profit.

As for metal bodies, they are just as difficult to get as the complete item. I have found then actully more difficult to import, as an airsoft gun is obviously a toy, but a metal receiver looks just like a real firearm receiver especially of it has no mech box.

Hey! I am selling my money for your AEG's. BUY MY MONEY!
 

OK everyone has said there is no difficulty getting what you want provided you have the money and don't mind if it takes a while for retailers to source whatever it is you are looking for. However, is it just me or do retailers on this site not really answer emails? (with the exception of Illusion...I love that guy!)
Meaning I totally get the idea of not harassing a retailer once you have made an order (ie. be patient) but I can't even get an order in. No replys from a couple dudes.
SO as not to name and shame. Maybe if any of those retailers who feel like they are prompt and that this is a totally slanderous post will check their emails before they reply to this message...just in case they have been sitting on an email from me.

[QUOTE=Brian McIlmoyle;914194]Clear guns are no impediment to playing the game...

and import restrictions are no impediment to serious collectors of full metal replicas.

There is always a way ...

Personally I have experienced 0 trouble getting anything I desire .. all it takes is $ and time.[/QUOTE

+1

You know what i'm just happy i can get the parts I need into Canada.
Day that stop's. Is the day I get AV'd.

Dealing with small scale retailers
 

Posting in a public forum about a private deal is like saying

"I don't trust you so I want the world to see I have a deal ongoing with you so I have back up when it goes sour"

If you did not trust this fellow with your money you should not have purchased in the first place. If you did.. Then wait, Your purchase is on its way and will be delivered when it arrives.

Is it any wonder most small scale retailers last about 6 months before they get fed up and quit offering public sales.. and go 100% private and off ASC.

Retailers are sticking their necks out with each and every gun they sell. So pay them the respect they deserves and shut up about your deals and wait.

Good point. It makes me so annoyed when people get pissed, post in a sales thread, and PM spam a retailer 3 times a week because their gun is 2 days late.

People, back off and be patient. When a retailer says "it should take 3-4 weeks".. wait 4 weeks, send ONE PM, and wait another week before sending one. Retailers will get back to you. Filling their PM and e-mail inbox with "where is my gun" after 4 days is retarded. We all know how flukey it can be importing. Be glad these people are getting what you want at all.

+100000. Nothing more needs to be said. If you aren't comfortable with waiting after giving someone your money for a product, then don't even do it in the first place. Accept the fact that you aren't going to be able to get those speciality items that no retailer keeps in stock any other way, and just buy stuff that is in stock, or out of the classifieds. Custom orders are not a simple process.

Yeah but what if it's been a few months?

Depends on expectations... for items not in country 2 months is not out of the ordinary .. I've waited longer..

Promised within 1 month and it's been a few months....

There's a difference between being told 4 weeks and pestering after 4 weeks and 3 days, and being told 4 weeks and pestering after 8 weeks.

For myself, if my order is going to be delayed, a retailer telling me "one or two more weeks" is sufficient for me to wait another few weeks. If I was told 4 and haven't heard anything different after waiting 6 or 7.. I'd get annoyed.

If someone promises something and does not deliver and does not contact ... they are in breach of the agreement.

Money back or renegotiate the agreement.

I get that some deals go sour.. but the issue is not the odd sour deal..

the issue is people taking private deals public.. and getting all bent outa shape when there is ANY delay..

The only deals I will do are CASH and in PERSON .. but that said I have sold stuff to people all over Canada.. They ( the buyer) must arrange an agent to pay in person and take delivery.. then the agent ships to the buyer.

No fuss no muss .. everyone is happy

THAT SMELL like one of my customer TODAY!!!

everyone know we ask for 20 business days before shipping... and when you buy from us you do agree with those terms! After 16 business days he place a dispute with Paypal, and never try to contact us before!! Please... For sure I will refund him! Do you think I will be happy to trade with him again??

Sounds more to me like someone just changed their mind. Still no excuse though and I hope you don't do business with them again.

I think we all need to take a deep breath, and be calm.

Getting guns in Canada is about the worst it's been, and could be getting alot worse folks. I would put money on it.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/forumdisplay.php?f=182

Ok. So, I have no Idea what to do on a forum, I am a complete idiot when it comes to these things but damn... Airsoft is hard to come by unless you want the clear gun. I'm just wanting to make sure that the retailers on here are mostly all from Canada right? So there shouldn't be that much Importings law shit going on correct? Please get back to me.

i read this whole thread and the person above me takes the cake!!!

I think most people here are realistic when the pre-order/order something. Most issues are more about the communications between the customer and the seller. To wait 3 months for something you already paid fully or half is something plausible and ok but to get no news by the seller that is another story.

Really I say fuck people who say they are doing this on their free time and we should all STFU and say thanks.... Well no my friends! This is a business and people who decided to invest in it by time or money did it for one reason, make money. And as many other business, you handle it or you quit before the business take's care of you.

I don't care to wait 3 months for something. All I ask is to know what is going on. Retailers who can't handle it should take less orders or organized themselves better. But I doubt this will happen. Money is more important and drive's them crazy...

And when it's time to get a refund, sellers should be able to back it up also. When you get a refund in any other business do they tell you well we can't refund you because we are short of cash? Hell no.

And as for people that open Paypal dispute after 20 days, there is a major reason people do it. You have 45 days to do it! If you don't before 45 days you get it in the ass just like me. Paypal will not do anything if no dispute is open after. Paypal dispute is the only way to back you up a little. It doesn't mean much till you escalade it to the last step.

Retailers don't like Paypal dispute system? Well don't use it because it's not for you then. Maybe it's not for airsoft then...

Anyways make sure you are organize and give news sometimes and people will feel more secure specially after they sent you 600$.

:tup:

Well first of all... nevermind.. That's not the point of my post.

When doing something like pre-ordering from someone, it is not a business. Most of the retailers on here are not legitimate businesses, they are just people doing it for the money and to help the community by bringing in cool guns. Comparing it to a legitimate business like a store is wrong.
It is more like buying something off of a person, in this case something a little bit less than legal to import into Canada. You haven't signed a contract or anything, there is no guaranteed timeframe or anything like that.

There have been multiple reviews of people who do custom orders, and just retailers in general. When someone does this as their side job, they cannot just send you an update every day, especially when they get no updates. If they don't know anything, they shouldn't have to come tell you every day, I don't know everything.

And the biggest thing to say is, BUYER BEWARE. You purchase from people at your own risk, especially with a custom order.

As to the first part I bolded, about retailers taking on less or organizing themselves, well no. If that is how they run their business, and you know that based upon reviews (of which there are many, multiple posts in retailers' threads), then it is your choice to buy from them or not. You knew thats how things seemed to be going with other buyers, and you continued to go through with the purchase. That was your choice.

Man, I couldn't agree more with you! I can't STAND it when there is literally NO COMMUNICATION from a seller after a purchase. Yes, as you said, its not the long waiting period that is the problem, its the major lack of communication that happens all to often. I mean seriously, is it really that hard to send a quick reply to an email???
__________________
Favorite Quote: "Love your neighbors as you love yourself"
airsoft sniper rifles - the only way to go!

When you get 200+ PM's a day and are organizing things with 20+ different people all wanting different things sent different ways paying by different means...

Yes. Yes is really THAT hard to send a quick reply.

You have no idea how many people ask REALLY stupid basic questions that can be found by using the search tool or by simply reading the thread.

People expect these traders to operate like fully developed businesses.

Unfortunately, no, they haven't hired someone just to check through the pm's left by 100s of people a week. so yeah its gonna take a while to get to you when your asking alot from a 1 man show. which is normally the case.

The airsoft market has been cut down at the knees. there can never be a truly massive retail development in canada until some real legislation is set in place. That would make the cbsa loosen up a little and let an actual skid (oh my god the joy that would probably bring to see the first skid go through) cross the border with goodies that a hampered sport would definitely put to good use.

Until that fateful day, when airsoft gets its own damn tv channel. people need to relax and give that poor dude who busted his ass to find you the damn toy do his thing. I assure you, they all have the intention of getting to you. and if they don't, ask someone else.

Having worked Sales in computers a great deal I can see that while Airsoft retail operates under fairly different circumstances, many of the same customer dissatisfaction scenarios are directly mirrored.
The experience I've collected points to an emerging poisonous consumer culture in Canada. People raised on the myth of the shady salesman and the crooked mechanic (90% of the time having no such actual experiences) come into a transaction with their hackles up, expecting the worst, "knowing how to deal with salesmen", being largely disrespectful and demanding the best deal- which should conform to the constraints of their pocketbooks and not the realities of the market.
This puts the salesman in a difficult position, and depending on their time in the 'Tag they will respond with: passive compliance, then move to ambivalence, then thinly veiled condescension, then if he/she lasts long enough to become a professional, they will choose wither to become someone who lays everything out respectfully but refuses to be attached to any one transaction... or they become the economic boogeyman that everyone is so afraid of.
As with computers as with airsoft as with ANY retail, big spenders don't make money- repeat customer make money.
Businesses -regardless of size- are in business to make money. A good business doesn't want to screw you, they want you to be pleased and come back again.
With this in mind, when you are 'shopping around' for an item, a good consumer is in fact shopping around for a good store, not so much the item itself.
The best route to a good deal is -believe it or not- to pay the markup. Find a good place with people you like to deal with, inspect the product in person, and pay the markup. Strike up a rapport, be known to your seller, don't give him grief by suggesting his prices are too high, ask him if he has room to match a lower price, and buy something he has at regular price to go with it. Thank him for his prices that are fair, and don't piss on the difference of 5%.
This is positive reinforcement, and will get you the skinny on new items incoming, reserved items, floor models, and persistent discounts when available.
At restaurants I pay good tips for good service, outrageous tips for service that just made my night sparkle, and none at all for restaurants I'd never go to again.
Think of a reasonable markup as a tip. If you want good service to go with your product or meal, and you want that service to persist, pay up.
If you don't want to pay for service, don't expect it.
You are not entitled to anything.
You will, however, get awesome treatment and deals if you're cool about things.
Now recognize that Airsoft is a specialist niche market reaching out to limited clientele with relatively high-risk investment, and no stable market value.
You are essentially dealing in Egyptian artifacts in the 1920s for all intents and purposes.
Enjoy the hobby, enjoy the gear, pay the premium.
Politely :)

What is with these Necro Posts.


The Geo-Political climate for airsoft retailers has changed alittle in the two years since the last post. But thanks for showing up.

Didn't even see the date. Maybe I need glasses.

Don't feel bad, your information was still relevant just slightly differently so. Besides everyone makes this mistake a few times.

Lol...
It could all be cheaper if you do it in GTA5 :)