WE baby Hi-capa 3.8 upgrade questions

[Sully]

I just started building up my gear since the second week of november and have spent probably close to 2k on airsoft. I have a feeling that my wallet and bank account are considering taking a hit out on me.

[Sully]

Ok, so after looking through your parts thread there ILLusion, my budget would be gone mighty quick, so I'm gonna throw that amount out the window and just take it as it comes amount-wise.

[ILLusion]

That's exaaaaaaactly what I wanted to hear... mwuahahahahahaaaaa.....

Will get back to you on what I'd suggest. I have some things in mind.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

That's exaaaaaaactly what I wanted to hear... mwuahahahahahaaaaa.....

Will get back to you on what I'd suggest. I have some things in mind.

You are THE MAN! I don't care what anyone else says, you rock HAHA. Thank god I am recently single and no longer have to explain where my paycheque goes every 15th and 30th.

[ILLusion]

To be honest, I don't have any in depth experience with WE pistols, so whatever information I can provide is based on what I've caught here and there - also keep in mind that I don't particularly pay much attention to WE threads, so I don't know what common problems exist. I'm not sure why this one caught me.

I'll base my info off of Marui Hi-Capa experience, since this gun is a clone of the Hi-Capa in a Detonics length. The Marui Detonics is a shortened 1911, so that difference exists right off the bat. Some of the internals are different, but they are generally the same as far as mechanics and availability goes.

Note that many of the upgrades I mention will actually cover several of the performance characteristics mentioned. Some are meant more for one than the other, but will affect another characteristic as a side-benefit. There are also upsides and downsides to all upgrades (besides wallet raping), but there are also ways to balance it all out.

As far as durability goes, the WE's actually shouldn't be too bad. If they can handle CO2 out of the box, they should be able to pretty much handle a lot. I don't know what long term durability is like - someone else can fill me in on this one.

I've heard of out-of-the-box WEs having their cheap die-casted metal slides break after just a couple of shots. That could be poor engineering of the bushing end on their 1911 model... it might happen to the Hi-Capa model as well. There isn't much you can do to fix that except install a spring guide rod with a buffer at the end, or just install stronger recoil springs to put more pressure to balance out high PSI gas usage. The main benefit of recoil springs are increased cycling speed.

Marui Hi-Capas are notorious for having the stock loading/air nozzle break when the pistol is used in a combination of:
- heavier metal slides
- enhanced recoil springs
- propane

All of that pressure bears on the plastic nozzle and causes it to rupture in a short amount of time. I'm assuming WE is better with this, since they're designed to take propane and CO2 right out of the box, but I've heard of one or two breaking this way. It could be something you might want to install as a preventative measure or you can install it as you go.

The thing with WE pistols are... they are inconsistent - sometimes you get a lemon out of the box, sometimes you get a good one... and sometimes you get one that *seems* like a good one for a while till something breaks. Upgrading a WE for durability if you're on a budget and do not require your weapon to be your "go-to gun" when the shit hits the fan generally means upgrading your gun as parts fail.
However, if you NEED this gun to save you from life or death (err... I mean from having to go back to the respawn point) and you NEED this gun to never fail you... well... then you'd pretty much have to upgrade the crap out of it from the start "just in case"... or sell it and buy a Marui. :P

It's your call on which road you want to take - upgrade parts for durability now or replace as you go. If you bought a WE, chances are, you were running on a budget and the latter option would probably be applicable in this case.

As far as long term durability goes, there are a lot of steel parts you can upgrade for the internal mechanisms, especially if you start using stronger springs. There is a lot of wear of the hammer catches and the sear hook... more so if you have enhanced hammer springs. I haven't worked on the guts of a WE before, so I couldn't say what the material is - if it's die casted metal, chances are, it will wear down sooner rather than later. I generally like replacing those parts right out of the box. The feel is better... trigger break is smoother and more succinct. The pull can also be lighter, and again - all stainless steel components make for a very durable part.

As far as accuracy goes - Firefly Hop up rubber and a Tanio Koba Twist inner barrel are the two things I almost always recommend.
If I'm not mistaken, the WE 3.8 is the same length as the Marui Detonics Combat Master .45. Assuming the hop up structure is all the same, you could fit those equivalent parts in. I don't have any Detonics parts in stock, but I can order that barrel for you if you want to go with it.
Besides that, you'd be looking at very heavy upgrades which make spending the money on a WE to be useless. My biggest beef with WE guns is the amount of play and wobble between not only the inner barrel & outer barrel... but also between the outer barrel and slide... and again between the slide and the frame. WE pistols are notoriously bad for this. In the end, the inner barrel will not always be in the same spot in relation to your mid-frame, and that's what affects accuracy the most.
Sure, you could go and swap all of those parts, but you're replacing a lot and it'll cost a lot. There are some at-home "fixes" you can do, such as putting some electrical tape between the inner barrel & outer barrel and again between the outer barrel & slide to shim up the looseness. It doesn't look pretty, it's not a very durable fix, but it'll work in a pinch and for a lot less many than an overhaul. There is nothing you can do about the wobble between the slide & frame besides replacing them.

Ultimately, you're working with a very short barreled pistol. Accuracy is obviously not one of the primary traits of such a compact weapon. When working in quarters as tight as this pistol would be used in, accuracy wouldn't be a huge issue.

As for power and velocity...
The biggest increase for power is a high flow valve. I've seen increases of up to 20% when installing a good high flow valve.
The second increase for power is a longer inner barrel. If you want to maintain the compact length, then this is non-negotiable. As an example on its effectiveness: increase a 5" inner barrel to 6" will yield an increase in velocity from 300fps @ 5" to up to 350fps @ 6"! That's a 50fps gain from one extra inch!
The third highest increase in power is a tighter bore. I don't have any numbers like above that back this up... but it's the same principle. Tighter bore will allow greater compression of the gas behind the BB, which results in higher velocity. I've seen an increase of about 10-15fps when going from 6.03mm down to 6.01mm - however, that was in a 7" barrel. I don't know how the numbers look with shorter barrels.

Some other items that add ~5fps here and there:
- High flow floating valves (also called "power up bulbs", "rocket valves" or something along those lines)
- Some hop up rubbers are better than others for gas efficiency and provide increased velocity. Nine Ball's is one that comes to mind.
- Some piston heads are ventilated and provide better air seals within the cylinder of the air seal nozzle. Again, the Nine Ball one comes to mind, as does the King Arms one. The King Arms set includes a high flow rocket valve as well.
- Stronger floating valve springs keep the floating valve open for a split second longer, which results in greater gas flow through the barrel before the gas is directed to the blowback action. The Nine Ball Dyna Piston Head kit comes with this spring already. This spring is also available in another kit made by Action and is also available individually by Proud.

Cycling Speed,
Cycling speed is mainly affected by how fast your slide goes through the mechanic/pneumatic action of firing the projectile, racking the slide and chambering another round. There are two motions present: the rearward motion and the forward motion. Increasing gas pressure is the best way to increase the speed of the rearward motion. High flow valves are the best for that, followed by a good seal between the piston head and loading muzzle.
The forward motion to bring it back to battery is controlled by the recoil spring. A strong recoil spring is all you really need for that.

[cbcsteve]

Is it me or have you not put a super Hi-capa Guide into a single thread yet?

That above post right there is a treasure trove

As well this one too
http://community.tradersairsoft.com/...ad.php?tid=488
Good info there too

Mixing WE and TM
From my experience with messing with WE and TM Hi-capas, I switched out the parts put them back together and noticed that the TM parts make things sound more crisp.

WE mags are cheaper than TM but for a reason. Because WE propane mags may tend to bust a leak or not lock back when it is empty. Those are the two most common problems.

As for parts wise I have not fiddled with the Handle or middle metal frame of the gun but I do know anything in the top slide is fully compatible. So the things you see in Illusion's thread

- Inner Barrels
- Outer Barrels
- Blowback Unit
- Spring sets
- Metal Slides
- Hop-up Units

Are pretty much compatible

But since thats a 3.8 you have there you probably will need a new

- 5.1 Hopup unit (http://www.airsoftpost.com/complete-...a-p-27294.html)
- Outer Barrel (Illusion)
- Spring Kit (Illusion)
- Metal Slide (Illusion)

I am unsure about the Blowback unit since they tend to not vary in size so you may still be able to use the one you have, other then that you are quite set

[ILLusion]

What's wrong with the stock hopup unit in the WE 3.8?

[Sully]

HOLY HELL you 2 guys are amazing. I think I'm gonna have to make a trip out to Ontario and head to Markham and Scarborough just to buy you guys a few rounds. I'm thinking for now I'll do an inner barrel change, at minimum a new hop-up rubber and maybe a new hop-up. Change the springs. Change the air nozzle and the blowback unit as they look a little sketchy to me. I'm also thinking of a new slide but not really sure what I'm looking for in that yet.

[Sully]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

What's wrong with the stock hopup unit in the WE 3.8?

From what I can see is it looks like cast pot metal with all kinds of rough seams.

[ILLusion]

The only reason why I ask is because it's extremely hard to find one. None are available on the aftermarket, and finding a stock one is next to impossible.

If there's nothing wrong with the stock one, I wouldn't bother replacing it at this point.

I may be able to get some custom machined, but it won't be cheap.

Hit me by PM if you want to go forward with the purchase.

[cbcsteve]

Hahah its pay day for Illusion

Sorry not the Hop up unit ai yaa... what was I thinking... I mean the barrel

Tanio Koba 5.1 Twist Barrel - (Illusion)

You better get it before I do hahaha