|July 31st, 2017, 21:11||#1|
JAG ARMS Scattergun Review (Pics updated 03-2021)
A quick review of the JAG ARMS Scattergun/ TM M870 clone.
The JAG ARMS Scattergun is a Tokyo Marui M870 clone in most of the basic elements. It vouches for reliability and affordability, all while offering the same skirmish-able quality the TM version would offer. Here are some of my findings about the build quality and comparison of the original with its clone. I bought the JAG Scattergun HDS version with pistol grip integrated full-stock hoping that it would replicate the same qualities as its TM original. At the end of my comparison, I found that while the JAG Scattergun is a very true clone, this means that they had also cloned the same problems the TM version had as well!
In all pictures/videos below the TM version will be on the left while the JAG version will be on the right. There are multiple differences that are not covered in this post; some which I have neglected on purpose because I did not find it a significant difference to include.
The outer-barrel of the JAG Scattergun features an orange painted flash hider. These were spray-painted with semi-gloss bright orange paint that is easily removable with acetone aka nail polish remover. In my case, I had learned this only AFTER sanding the paint off before realizing the acetone would penetrate and remove it, revealing the black finish on the bottom.
Unfortunately JAG decided to paint the tip underneath the front sight orange as well. While attempting to remove the front sight, the whole thing came off as well and took off a piece of the threading on the barrel as well. I have since repainted it and made it look good as new.
The JAG version comes with a threaded outer barrel for misc attachments. I do not know what accessories are compatible with this shotgun barrel, perhaps flash hiders or suppressors that don't inhibit the 3 shot and 6 shot mode from functioning properly.
The JAG version is absent of any or all markings on the outer barrel. Meanwhile the TM version has some markings regarding the suitable gauge for shotgun shells.
Out of the box the ejection port button is extremely stiff:
The JAG shotty's shell release button is a strange mechanism where it will get stick if you push directly towards the back of the stock. In order for it to work properly, you must push on the button and contour your force along the side of the trigger guard downwards.
Meanwhile, the TM version works both ways whether you push down towards the back or contour the force along the trigger guard.
I did not open up the receiver yet prior to testing this function. After lubrication, it is slightly better but the shell ejection is still no where as crisp and easy to work as the TM version. The TM version will definitely be more forgiving if you are in a tight spot and lack the ability to focus your fine motor skills.
The JAG receiver features the JAG ARMS airsoft markings in the gun. This made with indentation into the receiver along with some white paint. Not a fan but it's airsoft so i'll let that go.
The ejection door:
It also appears as if the spring on the JAG's ejection door is also slightly weaker than the TM's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=Ac0lBNxUJMA
Not an extremely big deal. I don't have much else to say about this other than that there are some differences in build quality...
The SHELLS! The JAG shells are surprisingly good at being ejected compared to the TM and Cyma shell!
There is a hole where the primer on real shotgun shells would be that is making all the difference. The JAG shotgun shells measure 5.8mm in diameter while the TM/Cyma shotgun shells measure 6mm in diameter. Kind of a big deal when you need to reload fast and the fingers aren't working.
The JAG Arm's trigger assembly is more solid than the TM version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR5Cwetj3rQ
Straight out of box, this is true, but upon disassembling and reassembling the JAG shotgun I noticed that it had the exact same problems as the TM; the rear larger pin would hold together the trigger assembly with the receiver, but the smaller pin toward the barrel could easily slide out of place. It does not fall out due to the texture on the pin preventing it from doing so, but I had to secure it anyway with some teflon tape.
The Buttstock and Plate
The buttstock plate is something I really wished they could have done better! The JAG buttstock plate is completely textureless. I was actually really taken aback when a friend pointed it out but I have to agree; the TM plate actually looks and functions much better:
When I first went to the store to buy this, I wasn't expecting the buttstock retention spring to be so stiff! I'm a skinny person but the way that the retention mechanism was built works against you!:
You can literally hear the plastic on plastic contact when they rub against each other when trying to push down on them: https://youtu.be/StXvFfF5Hv4
This was a pain in the ass for me because if i'm going to do this 10-15 times per day after each round on the field, my fingers are going to be sore after removing it by the third time. The sad part? I've tried lubricating this with 3 different lubricants; lithium grease, silicone oil, and wd-40. Nothing seams to work because JAG did not account for the gap. There is simply too much surface area providing resistance when pressing the tabs together.
Lastly, JAG decided to GLUE the rubber shoulder pad onto the stock plate. It's one thing to use 2 screws to secure the two together, but they had to over-engineer the plate and glue them together so that I can't even disassemble it to file down the retention tab in order to alleviate the stiffness. I could do this on the TM without any problems.
After prying off the buttplate from the glue, I was able to loosen the screws in the back to allow the retention tabs more space. The buttstock now removes with ease; more tension than the TM buttstock but i would prefer that still because it can be more secure as a result.
That's most of the bad stuff out of the way. If you've reached this part of the post you're half way to the finish which is where I will talk about the internals!
TM compatible. The shotgun prongs are exactly the same in dimension as the TM counterpart. Here are some pictures to distinguish the difference in the finish:
Consider the JAG Scattergun on-par with the WE glock clones if we were comparing WE glocks to TM glocks.
The Gas Tank
I am happy to present the mythical JAG gas tank. Apparently there are absolutely 0 pictures online for this thing, only the shotgun itself. So here are some pictures:
The tank did show some signs of expansion when I filled it up with some gas, but it does appear to hold up. Compared to the TM gas tank that I originally had, and needed to seal and secure with nuts and bolts, this was miles ahead. It came with the same design; 3 pin holes, except one key difference was that the middle pin hole was securing the walls of the gas tank with a security screw and bolt:
UPDATED AUGUST 4, 2017
EACH GAS TANK IS NOT CROSS COMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER.
The JAG Gas tank will lock and fit inside the TM M870, but will NOT discharge gas into the chamber.
Meanwhile, the TM M870 gas tank WILL discharge gas in the JAG scattergun, but will NOT lock into place.
It is unknown if a modification can be made on the JAG Scattergun's full-stock to be allow the TM M870's gas tank to be compatible.
Update Sept 11
The JAG arms stock and gas tank are based off of the GOLDEN EAGLE gas tank. This is a JG rebrand.
Based on the pictures it seems like all JAG gas tanks are the same as the GOLDEN EAGLE gas tank.
The gun disassembles the same to get to the receiver from the stock. The only difference is that the JAG has a flat-head screw rather than phillips head. The JAG inlet valve appears to be longer than the TM one.
The insides are just coated with grease, all the way from the screw to the receiver. The o-ring appears to be nice and flush and well fitting the receiver.
UPDATE AUG 4
The input valve has started to leak. When racking the gun, a light leak can be heard in the stock chamber between the gas tank and the input valve. The valve can be removed with 10mm ratchet wrench same as the TM version. There are also 2 o-rings that help seal the gas tank to receiver flow, the only difference is that the gas tank is pinching and cutting away at the o-ring with multiple uses, causing it to leak. I have temporarily fixed it using a gasket maker (black). Waiting to see if this is a permanent fix.
The trigger assembly is exactly the same as the TM. The only difference is the safety is absent of a red ring (red = dead safety disengaged).
The gas chamber housing shell has some loose QC. A crack can be seen at the front screw where it connects the housing to the hopup/outer barrel unit. I was definitely not impressed and I had to repair it with epoxy in the event it breaks even further.
Update Aug 4
The loading arm is going to be a weakpoint where there is going to be the most contact.
The JAG loading arms follow the same principle as the SAT design, except they use a plastic base plate with metal arms, instead of a metal plate with metal arms. From what I've experimented, JAG arms was smart enough to loctite the metal arms which will reinforce it and prevent the threads from snapping, versus the SAT version that just screws the two arms together onto the metal plate and decides to NOT loctite it.
TM Broken loading arms
The plastic thread with metal "arms" is a consistent point of failure from excessive jamming and aggressive racking.
The internal assembly is exactly the same:
Inside The Output Valve/Gas Cylinder/Firing Pin
Everything in the JAG's gas chamber housing is presumed to be cross-compatible between the two brands. That is because the output valve uses the same dimension o-ring as the TM, the shotgun prongs are the same dimensions, and the dimension of the housing is the same as well. That being said, although the parts are compatible, JAG has yet to announce any of these parts for individual after-market sale. Moving on...
The receiver host is made of a clear hard plastic rather than a black rubberized one. It appears to be sturdy and held together by factory tolerances.
WARNING: DO NOT DISASSEMBLE THIS TUBE. YOUR GUN IS TRASH IF YOU TRY TO MODIFY ANY PART OF THIS ASSEMBLY.
Key differences of the JAG cylinder:
All o-ring sizes and other dimensions are essentially the same.
I didn't want to open this gun up ever again, so although JAG has made this gun less prone to leaking under propane gas, I decided to do my own modifications as well as a precaution.
The original o-ring on the left next to the metal output valve cap, the original TM o-ring on the right in the bag, and the replacement quad-ring that I will be using to replace the original. Essentially all this does is increase the surface area where the o-ring makes contact with the cylinder to prevent the risk of leaks.
Afterward the mod:
The internals of the JAG are not surprisingly better than the TM. It's rated for a higher gas pressure, but we cannot forget it is still a clone. The externals of the TM are miles beyond the JAG version. From the stiff buttstock plate, safety, and shell release button, these are all things that I envy from TM that i wish also got cloned onto the TM.
Things I wished they didn't clone: front sight and loading arm/ramp fragility.
In general, I would definitely recommend this gun to any beginner who wishes to experiment with shotgun skirmishing. There is no way that a beginner should try to modify or fix if something should break.
If you have any questions, comments, concerns, feedback, racial slurs, suggestions, please send me a PM or make a post at your discretion. I would definitely be open to adding more information at a later date.
Last edited by RainyEyes; March 22nd, 2021 at 18:22.. Reason: update picture links
|August 27th, 2017, 00:58||#3|
Join Date: Feb 2016
This is a pretty in-depth as hell review I mean you review the loading door spring strength lol.
Other than the terrible Jag Arms markings I'd imagine alot of the negatives would've been phased out with the buffer tube stock versions.
|August 27th, 2017, 02:03||#4|
So far, I have found that the JAG shotty shoots at 3/4 the distance of the TM one, and the barrel is ALWAYS dirty. I'm trying to figure out if it's user error or if i messed up. Once I get my TM up and running I'll be able to know for certain the proper fps ratings and document the effective date and accurately...
As for the buffer tube version: they fixed nothing other than the hole in one's wallet. Which is major, for sure, but unless you HPA tap it so that you never have to unscrew the buffer tube to fix something inside the receiver, the JAG shotty has the same problem as the angrygun aftermarket stock version: the oring in the buffer tube that connects to the receiver dries and breaks. Cheap fix, really, just use an aeg o-ring and it fits the dimensions perfectly. But because of reasons the thing still shrinks and breaks over time. Still way more worth it to get the buffer tube version IMO because the TM gas canister do NOT work on the JAG shotgun and vice versa.
|August 28th, 2017, 11:34||#5|
No such thing as skipping details, you never know who it'll benefit.
Only thing I can say is please upload your images via imgur next time, because seems photobucket and other sites are having a crap fest lately!
Other then that, thanks for the hard work, is appreciated.
May pick up the one with AG stock clone. Are you having any issues with 6 round shots like on the original TM, where only 4/5 would go instead of 6?
|September 11th, 2017, 22:04||#6|
Unfortunately I can't get consistent range on the JAG. In my opinion the TM goes well beyond 100 meters, or from one end of the second floor of the palace to the windows of the mansion at siege airsoft. For the JAG i haven't had reliable 6 shot range. Hopefully more use will help.
The JAG seems to be doing better. I haven't noticed any missfeeding when I was gaming it. I will drop my siege this weekend when I get a chance and see if I can pepper a few people.
|September 20th, 2017, 09:16||#9|
Join Date: Aug 2015
Anyone have an idea if these shells would work?
Also anyone have links to extra shells?
|September 20th, 2017, 09:48||#10|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Markham & Stouffville - Ontario - Canada
The cyma 6 pack from depot for $20 should work fine..
Looking to get age verified in York region? Click link...
|December 20th, 2018, 14:52||#13|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Bringing in a somewhat older thread back, thanks for the feedback and review Rainyeyes. Anyone else with more feedback and reviews?
I am tempted to pick up one!
M4 MK12 MOD0, SBR, KC02
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