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KSC G19 Problems/Questions after upgrade

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Old February 21st, 2007, 18:37   #1
nul22
 
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KSC G19 Problems/Questions after upgrade

Ok, this sounds horribly pathetic but I have no where else to turn. I recently purchased two KSCg19's from redwolf. They were both received in perfect working order. I also purchased:

Airsoft Surgeon Power-Up Floating Valve for All KSC & KWA Glock Series
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=20836

Nine Ball Wide Use Hight Bullet Valve for KSC Pistol Series
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=18690

Metal Slide & Outer Barrel for KSC Rail G19
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...il?prodID=8720

Well, after installing all of the parts in witch I figured to be the correct way by looking at all of the diagrams that the gun came with, I finished the assembly and brought it outside to shoot. I get 3 awkward shots with the slide not fully cocking and then it spews out the rest of my gas. I figured it might have been a jam. I tried it again, same thing. The first thing I can think of is the floating valve. For some odd reason I don't think I installed it right. It seems too cramped under the pin where the old valve was seated. Can anyone lend a helping hand to my armature mess?

If anyone has installed this floating valve before, I would greatly appreciate it if you could leave a post on how you installed it, or if anyone has any other information on why this whole mess is occuring please leave a post.

Heres a picture of the floating valve if you don't feel like visiting the links above


( If this should be in the upgrades section, please move my post thanks )
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Old February 21st, 2007, 18:49   #2
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Does that floating valve install in the sliding blow back chamber? I've never installed one and never even bothered thinking about one (My upgraded KSC G19 has enhanced recoil spring, enhanced hammer spring, 6.04mm tightbore barrel, larger O-ring to eliminate the extreme barrel wobble in the design, and a metal mag catch................ it chronies at 340 w/ 0.20g and 265fps w/ 0.43g).

Tell you what, take that floating valve out completely, install your stock one back in, and try it that way. I actually suspect the metal slide/outer barrel because what you describe is typical of G&G metal slides for the Glock. Tell me if the inside of the slide is milled/machined out of aluminum barstock (feels smooth and you can see cut lines) ir if it all feels really light and almost like fine wet/dry sandpaper. If the former, we'll look elsewhere, if the latter, that is at least 95% of your problem.

Also, put a few drops of silly oil into the area of the frame/hammer assembly just ahead of the hammer, there is a part that links the hammer's action with the release valve on the mag, if that part isn't lubed right and well, it sticks in the forward position and dumps your gas reservoir.

Sure, some people will say the problem is you didn't buy an enhanced recoil spring, but metal slides on the KSC G19 anyways, work fine with the stock one, just a little sluggish is all. Still, buy an enhanced recoil spring regardless.

I think you got bit by the upgrade bug, should focus more on reliability, accuracy and power first when you have little experience, and then focus on wild upgrades later on when you can upgrade the heck out of a GBB. Where did you get the advice anyways?

Last edited by CDN_Stalker; February 21st, 2007 at 19:01..
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Old February 21st, 2007, 19:04   #3
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Remove the Nine Ball high-flow valve too and see if it runs fine with just the metal kit upgrade. Could be your assembly was not correct.

Generally for inexperienced users doing upgrades, you should do them one at a time.... that way if there are problems you can easily determine what part is the culprit.

Yeah it takes longer but far less headaches involved.

Good luck.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 19:07   #4
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1. Yes, the floating valve installs in the sliding blow back chamber. I figured with all of the added gas flow from the high flow valve, it would place added stress on the plastic stock valve.
Part #24 is the floating valve


2. The inside of the slide feels like the we sandpaper you described and looks as if it may have been cast.

3. I just lubed it up with high grade HFC silicone lube.

Im going to replace it with the stock floating valve now, but I wanted to send you a post beforehand.

4. I also checked whether or not it was the high flow valve, I removed it and it eliminated the problem where my trigger would not depress the valve witch releases the gas. I didn't include this earlier due to the fact that I eliminated that problem, but I guess now I should have. Is this problem common at all?

Last edited by nul22; February 21st, 2007 at 19:09..
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Old February 21st, 2007, 19:35   #5
nul22
 
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Update:

Ok, I did as you recomended and replaced the floating valve with the stock one, and I went ahead and tested it. I immediately noticed a difference, and a whole lot more power due to the fact that there wasn't a jammed valve . I then went ahead and reinstalled my high flow valve on my magazine and the whole assembly worked amazing. Real nice kick, and a powerful shot.

I would still really like to know how to install the floating valve as it could give me a minor FPS boost and reduce the chance that my stock floating valve will crack under the pressure. No sense in buying something and not using it thanks.

PS: Is it normal to get less shots while using propane? Just wondering. Thanks.
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Old March 30th, 2007, 17:21   #6
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Bump - I'm having this EXACT SAME PROBLEM, and it doesn't seem to have been answered. I just installed an Airsoft Surgeon Powerup Floating Valve, King Arms enhanced recoil rod/spring, KM TN 6.04 tightbore, and Proud Enhanced feed ramp into my KSC G18C. Everything seems to function as it should except the floating valve, with the exact same symptoms. I too thought it seemed a little cramped. I tried putting lube around the neck of the valve where it slides in the tip of the nozzle, but that doesn't seem to make a difference.

*edit: also have a KWA metal slide/barrel on there.
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Old March 30th, 2007, 17:31   #7
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Did you overlook the lube point made above? NOt a big deal to miss it, but it's a crucial point. GBBs tend to suck after running a while without lube.

My point being, your post is kinda vague and I'm not sure what your gun problem is exactly.
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Old March 30th, 2007, 19:14   #8
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I'm pretty sure it's not that, as the glock was functioning flawlessly before installing the floating valve. I'll work some more oil in there this time (in fact, I have yet to install my hammer spring and steel firing pin, so I'll be able to inspect those parts when I pull them out). The gas vent occurs out the muzzle - there's a very loud and visible cloud of liquid spraying out the barrel with the few shots that the mag supports. It seems like the floating valve doesn't close at all and the minuscule blowback is from raw gas venting alone.

I'm going to try the new valve with the stock valve spring (which is about alf as long and considerably weaker). If that doesn't work, I'll then reinstall the stock valve/spring.
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Old March 30th, 2007, 22:12   #9
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Okie dokey, now the hammer/pin are having problems

I was very very glad to wrap things up after the ungodly process of reinserting the hammer after swapping the firing pin and hammer spring. The hammer is very stiff now... While the hammer was down (forward), I wiggled it around with my fingers. It seems to be in very tightly, and sticks where you place it. It doesn't feel like it's lacking lube, but rather that it's simply grinding hard against the other parts in there. I spent a couple of minutes working oil into every part of the hammer assembly I could, and it doesn't seem to have helped.

I noticed the part of the hammer spring that rests against the hammer seemed to be bent outwards a little more than the stock spring (about 3-4 degrees). Could this be the cause? How would I go about fixing that?

I also reinstalled the stock floating valve. It seems to be functioning normally again. I get the same symptoms as before, but without the massive blast of gas out the barrel.

*If I wasn't clear before, the symptoms are similar to the first post. The slide seems to only kick back partially when firing. After about 15 shots, all the gas is vented (not as quickly as before, out the barrel within 3-4 shots) out the sides like the pin is stuck depressing the button on the mag.


***FIXED. Jeebus that was a horrific experience... Ok, so with some pliers, I reshaped the enhanced hammer spring. Reinstalled it, and no go, I was getting the same effect. So I disassembled and reinstalled the stock hammer spring. No go, light strikes. I disassemble again, turns out the tail of hammer spring was in the wrong spot. I give the enhanced one one more try, stretching it out first. Finally works.
It turns out that the feeling of incomplete cycling was partially due to the enhanced recoil rod/spring. I was so used to the heavy clunk of the stock one, it felt very light on the snappier and rubber cushioned enhanced one.

Still puzzled about the Airsoft Surgeon floating valve though...
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Old March 31st, 2007, 09:12   #10
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Congrats! You are becoming a G19 expert!

Floating valve............. meh, I've no use for aftermarket ones, so I've got no info to share regarding troubleshooting them. Sorry.
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Old March 31st, 2007, 14:33   #11
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Argle, still having a few problems.
Just for reference so people won't need to look it up:
http://www.unconventional-airsoft.co...kpartslist.gif

Ok, I'm still getting nothing but half cycles. I thought it was fine because it recocks the hammer perfectly, and cycles an acceptable number of times (1 mag of rapid fire?) without sticking or venting.

But the slide doesn't move all the way back - even with the stock weaker recoil rod/spring, it only manages to chamber another round every once and a while and never locks back. It essentially works like a gas springer.

I'm pretty confident in my reassembly of the hammer, but does the tail end of the hammer spring rest against the inside of part 93 or the little bar on part 267 (the same bar that 265 engages to unlock trigger function). With it resting against the inside of the frame (93), the hammer doesn't seem to be held as far forwards as it is capable of going - the angle on the hammer spring is less than the full range of motion of the hammer. This is odd, seeing as how my current enhanced hammer spring has a wider angle than the stock one (from my reshaping to get it to fit at all).

As far as I can tell, the stock floating valve is functioning perfectly. It seems like there isn't enough gas released to propel the slide all the way back. There is sufficient gas to fire the chambered BB and close the rocket valve, but not enough excess after the hammer has been cocked (and the firing pin lifted from the top valve on the mag) to chamber another round.

Hmm, just thinking about it now... the impact hammer/firing pin stays down until the slide moves back enough so that the groove on the bottom of part 250 depresses part 81, releasing the firing pin from the mag button. I think my problem may be there, that part 81 is installed incorrectly somehow and is dropping the firing pin back in too early...

What should one expect if the firing pin were installed upside-down? Would that create this effect? Or is the angle on the firing pin too steep for the hammer to engage it, if it were upside-down... Is there even a loop for the retracting spring (part 79) on the wrong side of the firing pin? I guess that negates this whole line of reasoning, if the firing pin cannot be physically placed in upside-down...

What if part 82 is weakened? I noticed it put up much less of a fight each time I reopened the hammer assembly. Maybe it has weakened to the point of allowing part 81 to drop just from the shock of blowback and not when part 250 actually engages it?

Any thoughts?


***D'oh, completely took down the blowback chamber again, including the floating valve. I didn't change a thing. Tried it with an extended mag, boom, 100% functionality. I think the problem may have simply been a cold magazine
Wow, baffled by perhaps the most basic problem with GBBs... Haha. At least I now know my glock inside and out.
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Old March 31st, 2007, 18:15   #12
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I've noticed across a few airsoft forums that the Airsoft Surgeon Floating Valve Spring is too strong. It impedes the floating valve from creating a full seal with the nozzle which basically kills your blowback.

Use the stock floating valve spring and you should notice a difference like nul22
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Old March 31st, 2007, 19:30   #13
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I did try that at one point, ended up with the same (if slightly less dramatic) results. I think that the problem may be with the design of the valve itself. The stock valve plugs the nozzle by sealing the wider part of the nozzle with it's widened base, which creates a pretty much airtight seal. The Airsoft Surgeon valve appears to be designed to plug the nozzle by sliding itself into the nozzle end and cutting of airflow through the channels cut in its sides. The flat base appears to form a poor seal, and it also looks like the openings in the sides of the valve are cut too far back to close up completely when the valve is fully depressed.

This is all assuming that I installed the valve in the correct orientation to begin with...
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