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Year Of The GBBR....or just a stinky smell that's passing through...

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Old August 24th, 2009, 11:08   #61
Brian McIlmoyle
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2nd That

Played with mine last night after getting back from FTF

easily 80% of the recoil of a real AR .. 100% the same take down.

From 10 feet you could not tell the difference between a RS M4 laid out field stripped .. and this gun.

Picked up.. I think its a little bit lighter .. but not much

Mags feel pretty much about 80% proper weight ( a loadout with this thing is going to be a good workout)

I know its a reliable weapon in the field.. because I have seen it in use at 3 games .. all three over 5 hours in duration in ALL Weather

I can see that there are issues with Mag cooldown in extended bursts.. but I had Zero issues over 30 rounds keeping to 3 round bursts last night.

I have yet to try it on Duster.. but if Tys can get a reliable gas regulation refit for the nozzle .. I'll not need to use duster..


so far.. very pleased with this gun... my AEGs are looking like ugly sisters now.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 12:39   #62
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I can see that there are issues with Mag cooldown in extended bursts.. but I had Zero issues over 30 rounds keeping to 3 round bursts last night.
You guys have the CO2 version with the steel nozzle correct?

I'm sure there will be some kind of regulator available, but if it's like the NPAS than all it will do is add more recoil to the gun.

Hopefully the brass internals holdup well enough, otherwise people will start pressuring DaytonaGun (Justin) to make steel replacement parts >=D
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Old August 24th, 2009, 12:46   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aZn_triXta07 View Post
You guys have the CO2 version with the steel nozzle correct?

I'm sure there will be some kind of regulator available, but if it's like the NPAS than all it will do is add more recoil to the gun.

Hopefully the brass internals holdup well enough, otherwise people will start pressuring DaytonaGun (Justin) to make steel replacement parts >=D
it is a steel nozzle .. more recoil.. is not a bad thing.. I think it can take it
Brass parts to replace are to my knowledge inexpensive like $40 or so.. if I have to replace it every 10 000 rounds no big deal.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 15:46   #64
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I've had my (G&P-internal parts/upper & lower receiver) WA M4 for some time now and have used it in 2x12 hr night games with cool-ish temps and a few (hot) day games having experienced no real issues other than power drop-off as the mags cooled along with the odd double-feed. Keeping to single or double-tap shots however resolves the cooling effect and double-feeds certainly make the overall experience all that more realistic. Reliable mags for the WA are still a thorny issue (slow leaks) unless you immediately take them apart and install the G&P o-ring kits but otherwise, I've been using propane exclusively and can honestly say that I prefer GBBRs to AEGs. Winter ops are another story but I don't usually shoot outdoors in the winter anyhow so it's a non-issue for me. As for velocity, combine a PDI 6.01 inner barrel with the NPAS system and it's pretty much as good as you can get with a WA-type GBBR. I also very much like the concept of realistically-limited rds per magazine which forces you to play "smart" instead of imitating a fire hose.

Brian, if you think the WE AWSS M4 field strips accurately, you should see the WA version. Both the BCG and trigger group are extremely realistic when you compare them against their real-world counterparts. As for realistic weight...I dunno but I'd say both the WE and WA are very close to the real thing. I do know however from first-hand experience; you probably noticed me huffing-n-puffing my way up and down those FR hills during the Terminator game last month, that a full load-out with these guns & mags is heavy and thus a very good work out indeed -- I was thorougly exhausted by morning!

I whole-heartedly agree with you that a properly set-up and maintained GBBR is THE best toy to find its way into a tickle trunk in a long long time.


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Old August 28th, 2009, 17:46   #65
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How many GBBs in this shot?
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File Type: jpg Wuha_VFC_416_GBB_6.jpg (218.7 KB, 124 views)
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Old September 4th, 2009, 10:12   #66
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Question. Has anyone had any issues with shaking their clone aimpoints/RDS to death with these GBBRs?

So I've been fiddling with the WE AWSS for the past week or so...and here's a couple of observations.

1. Propane torch makes short work out of the glue/paint/red-loctite that they use here and there.

2. Soft jaw (UHMW) pliers are too "slippery" to grab the nozzle rod. Cotton rag and regular channel locks (with fine "teeth" if possible) works fine. Kill the loctite first and it comes off like butter.

3. This thing really shakes after 30-40 mags....tighten and loctite anything you don't want falling off. I "lost" full auto and semi was kind of wonky...the screw holding the nozzle assembly to the carrier had lossened and was causing the nozzle to go off track.

4. The forward assist button flying off is retarded (I've counted myself extremely luck to have found it and the spring all 3 times)...I've put a touch of CA glue in the button to see if that holds better. If it doesn't I'm going to cross drill and pin it.

5. The AOE of the bolt release arm and the little nub on the magazine doesn't seem right. Too square/flat an angle so bolt catch doesn't always engage. Probably a good thing since unless the arm is made out of steel it's going to break after a while from the forces.

6. It's really hard to clean out chopped bb fragments. A couple of q-tips in the kit bag are a must. So is a cleaning rod. The worst jams I've had have been to wedge a double feed bb beside the nozzle, jammed between the nozzle and the brass cylinder. Small pick/screwdriver to convince it to come out is a must.

7. Hopup assembly is simple. Simple in that a cromagnon can't break it. Simple, not elegant, but works...like an AK. However, I'm not sure how effective it is. Getting a couple of spare hopup rubber "rings" is on the list of to-dos.

8. Slippery grease on the bearing surfaces is great. Superlube has worked like a charm. A little more oil in the gas is not a bad thing. If your gas is properly lubed, the silicone oil will disperse nicely all over the internals of the hammer/selector assemblies (not sure if it's getting into the knocker assembly...but it looks fine so far).

9. "regular" AEG delta rings/RAS collar threads do not fit right out of the box. However...rethreading mine with a MadBull Tool was really easy (unlike the last G&P body I tried to do). With cutting fluid, it's just a minute or 5 worth of work.

- also...my magpul CRT stock went on the stock stock tube just fine. The CRT endcap plug fit fine. There's a little play...but not much.

10. The front sight cross pin spacing is further apart than "regular" AEG barrels.

11. The threading OD of the barrel is just a bit bigger than the ID hole of a KA flash hider ring (the nice shiney collar that sits behind a flash hider). Some AEG flashhiders are "tight" to get on. TM Tracer V2 and MB Firepig's work.

12. A 3.74mm brass spacer (turned OD to just a bit smaller than the floating valve diameter), threaded (M3...I think, I'll have to check) onto the rod in the nozzle will reduce the FPS with 0.2g to 347fps. This pushed the nozzle forward so that the front flange that holds the valve o-ring is just behind the front lip of the nozzle body cutout. AT LEAST IT DID ON MINE. I made another one for the spare valve. It was probably just a bit bigger/longer than the other one and it shot 220fps with intermittent failure to fire. SO...I have a bad feeling that there's enough "slop" in things that there isn't a magic size that can be simply dropped into any nozzle...every nozzle will have to be tuned individually. That said...with the right tools it's not hard. The WE SCAR NPAS system looks nice...but I wonder how so many thin/treaded/joined parts are going to hold up long term. It seems easy to dial in/out to the extremes...I wonder how easy it is to dial to a specific setting and have it stay there. Loctite is key.

* that was all at 21c in my workshop...I haven't cranked up the space heater yet...I'll do that later.

13. The stock mag valves suck ass. I've swapped out 3/5 so far. One with a KJW 226 mag valve and 2 others with MB 40mm replacement fill valves. They seem to fill better. I suspect that the spring inside the stock valve is not moving free enough in the valve assembly to close the valve stem reliably when you remove the fill nozzle. No leaks from the rest of the mag yet...but I lubed up (overly so) and let them sit with gas when I first got them (they were dry as a bone). The knocker valves were sticky too...but lubing them specifically and working them got them moving freely.

Neat little thing...still puts a smile on my face shooting it so I'll keep it.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 11:53   #67
Brian McIlmoyle
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Excellent

I bought a Jaguar.. 1 day shooting = 4 days in the shop.. but what a pleasure to shoot!!

Tyson... you will be getting mine soon to " tweek" and tighten
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Old September 4th, 2009, 16:53   #68
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WOOOO finally some decent WE m4 stuff here on asc. I got mine at the start of the year so it's an earlier version (anodized receiver, brass nozzle). here are my observations:

1. all 5 of my mags crapped out on me at one point or another, right now 4 are sitting in pieces awaiting drastic action. the back of the mag is what seals the gas chamber, this is accomplished with a massive rectangular rubber washer that's squeezed to the mag with the back plate and 4 screws. near the top of magazine where it makes contact with the washer the surface was rough and interrupted with some kind of crease causing a pretty bad leak.
i took all my magazines apart to find they all had the same issue and carefully polished the sealing surface to make it nice and even. unfortunately even after a few hours of frustratedly beating my face on it, i could only get one of the magazines back together and reliably holding gas due to difficulties with seating the seal correctly in its place.
I read somewhere the mags have been revised (to prevent the side blowing off in hot weather yikes!) and that change in the mould may have fixed the sealing issue but i've yet to order new mags.
i doubt i have it in me to try and assemble those mags normally again so i'm probably going to try a gasket making product and see how it goes.

2. stock fill valves ARE dickballs, not only do they fail but they also reduce your capacity pretty hard compared to a liquid fill (tm or wa) style valve rather than the "silent fill" type that kj and those guys use. i got 5 complete mag fills of leisurely semi shooting out of one fill of gas on my working mag very pleased with that.

3. blowback performance is awesome, feeding just fine, groupings are complete garbage. in my gun's current form i'd have trouble hitting a completely unobscured person at 60ft. the pellets go high most times, falling to the ground others and cruising every which way in general. i hear this is resolved (to an impressive degree too) with the revised hop rubber, chrome tightbore and steel co2/propane nozzle set.

4. MAKE SURE YOUR NOZZLE IS CENTERED IN THE BOLT CARRIER. this has been apparently fixed in later editions but my particular gun didn't come with the nylon spacer for centering the nozzle guide. this is crucial to not busting your gun and should probably be checked out even if you have the nylon spacer. you can fix a slight decentering by loosening the screw holding the nozzle body to the bolt carrier and slightly turning it and tightening until it's centered. make sure you loctite this.

5. do not overlube your WE! when you use a gbb, the gas in your magazine ends up in your barrel and we all know how lame that is for hopup and is one of the key benefits of co2 (does not require as much lube). i recommend lubing your magazines very lightly with AI lightweight silicone oil at the end of the day after cleaning your rifle when putting a light squirt of propane into them before storage. this will keep your seals nice and lubed and compressed into the correct shape for future use.
use unlubricated propane throughout the day (this gun was not meant to run on duster, best to do the nozzle mod) and keep all key moving parts lubed with a very thin coat of superlube keep that shit clean too, especially the inner barrel.

6. G&P m203 fits great with some filing effort due to the wideness of the barrel.

7. my gun shakes my aimpoint off after 2 mags no matter how tight i screw it on :P i guess this is where a real steel mount actually comes in handy, or at least a locking washer.

if you've got a week or so to blow, read this thread. lots of garbage but also a lot of great stuff:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...as+blowback+m4

that said, despite its shortcomings, i love this gun. it presents a whole new series of challenges and i can see it being a totally worthwhile platform in the end

If anyone's got any pointers on fixing those horrible gaskets on my mags i'm all ears!
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Old September 4th, 2009, 17:15   #69
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Point #3 of M102404 post is something to really pay attention to. Having just acquired a WE Scar, two mags through the gun and a Allen screw came lose. When I fold stock back to try and see what was rattling around out fell the screw and nut, recovered the screw the nut has fallen under my deck.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 17:37   #70
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Already pouring money in GBBR for new stuff and conversion kits for higher end aeg -> gbb.

Give me some time and i should have someone with a line of new goodies for the Canadian GBBR community (at good prices like always)

All i can say, is the market is getting bigger and bigger every month for gbbr
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Old September 4th, 2009, 18:49   #71
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I had leaky mags for Rawdon... Fired a few rnds through each of them, solved the problem.

Hassn't come up again since, I would like to replace the valves eventually. I already replaced some of the O rings with larger ones from Canadian Tire to solve some blowback issues, mainly your bolt.

I strip and fully clean the gun after every event, I replace all the superlube in the rifle. As after a big op in a sandbox, the gun is nicely coated with black grit. And yea, clean the hell out of that inner barrel/hopup.


I cannot stress how important it is to make sure the brass inner chamber and buffer tube coil are lubed... like, super lubed a lot... this is directly where the steel bolt contacts. These areas see the most wear besides the small internals around the firing pin.

If you don't lube these areas, after a day or two of just using sili oil, you will be looking at a replacement part.


On that note, the forward assist for some people seems to pop out, the good news is, for 8 dollars US, you can just replace it with a real one!
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Old September 5th, 2009, 17:47   #72
m102404
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Manchovie...If the disassembled mags are in the "FUCK...I can't bear to tackle that" pile...I'd love to take a crack at one of them. They're the only thing I haven't taken apart with this system...solely because I'm still messing with the nozzle system. But if you don't mind me messing with one of yours, I'll give it a shot.

I've noticed on some fills that "over filling" will cause it to vent. Then you're sure to pop off the tiny little o-rings...I have 3 out of 5 without the o-ring. Anyone know how to put that oring back on...it's so freaking small that I can hardly manipulate it.

Last night and today I messed around with the floating valve/nozzle assembly to try and get some sort of more predictable/adjustable velocity.

Mark1: Spacer screwed onto threaded part of rod
- brass
- m4 threaded (CW/RH)
- ~2.7mm thick moves the stock AWSS valve up far enough to give sub 400fps (340~)...not sure of what it'll do in hot temps.

Mark2: Modified AWSS valve (RedGreen attempt at the WE NPAS SCAR design)
- drilled and tapped through the center of the valve for a M4 threaded screw
- with the valve pushed forward the distance of the screw head...FPS is bang on 400fps (396-401fps)
- the screw body protrudes down the center of the valve...probably inhibiting the flow of gas
- if I can find a way to "grab" the end of the screw (the head is in the valve assembly)...I'll be able to adjust it. I'm not sure if my diamond blade is thin enough to cut a cross slot on a M4 screw. Thinking of milling two flats on the screw body and making a jig with a slot to reach down through the nozzle and grab the screw.
- if that works it'll be adjustable...but I'm not sure that with such little bearing surface (i.e. small screw and thin amount of material that it's going through) that it won't work itself loose quickly. With blue loctite it held it's setting for about 10 shots, before it started to "shorten" itself.

Mark3: Home made valve
- I machined a valve out of brass.
- smaller diameter center hole in barrel and a 4 hole arrangement vs. the AWSS "2 sides cut away" setup
- weird...between 200-300fps...wild fluctuations
- works though......more tinkering needed

So predictable sub-400 seems acheivable...rock solid predictable 350 is no so concrete. Whatever comes out...I really wonder if there'll ever be a "drop this into your existing assembly and you shoot xxx" (unless they give you the majority of the bolt assembly).

The saga continues....

Last edited by m102404; September 5th, 2009 at 18:06..
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Old September 7th, 2009, 09:56   #73
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Has anyone heard anything(good or bad) about the JG m4 gbb rifle? The only thing that worries me is the mags.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 10:12   #74
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JG is a WA clone, so all the associated WA issues should be there with the mag....
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Old September 7th, 2009, 13:07   #75
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I just got a WE AWSS Gas Blow Back SCAR-L and used it in a game on sunday. It was awesome. Performed pretty good out of the box. After switching to GBB's my aeg prolly going to collect dust. After a fully day in the field from sunshine to rain, it performed great. I can see why GBB's are so addictive and the wave of the future for more realistic experience.
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