Canada appears to be turning into a society where snitching on your neighbours is a recommended course of action, much like in the Soviet Union which had a 3:1 ratio of KGB to civilian population.

Carl...

My avatar?.. really, that's the first place you go??? I guess that's probably expected... the rest of your rant makes as much sense.

Oh.. Carly....They won't be smashing down my door.. they'll know in advance that I have airsoft guns.. lol.

Gun ownership is not a right in Canada... and I'm glad it's not.

*********************

TDH... I didn't make it personal.. I'm just reacting to the fine upstanding airsofters that did. I'm not trolling, they drew first blood.

I could comment on your blubber too....

You are really a "wolf in sheep's clothing" but at least you are forth coming about it.

I think you need to take a long look in the mirror and find out what freedom is and what that means to you.....

I'm not sure if this is correct Brian. Your gus shoot under 430, which is the magic number of seperation. therefore, i believe, your gun would be considered a replica. Unless you were to store them with huge springs everytime you leave the field.

registering your replica's would be terribly bad for so many people. If your model was not produced before 1998, it is illegal. this also means its illegal to purchase a new, or used one. unless of course it is cansoft.

now lets say your house is robbed. some punk knows you have sweet airsoft guns in your house, and decides he wants them. your now fucked out of insurance money for them, because they are an illegal item.

now i'm not sure how this all how this all goes about with uncontrolled firearms that have been downgraded. but if your gun is confinscated, they won't let you put a new spring in it before it gets sent to RMCP for testing.

Read the law.. you are wrong on many points, It's clear that you have no specific knowledge on the subject other than hearsay.

TDH, Kurgan is the last person I would ever suspect of trolling.

Seriously guys, settle the fuck down. This is one small citys BYLAW in a part of the country that the rest of canada forgets about most of the time!

This thread is off the rails, has turnt into a battle of egos and fear mongering. I vote for a close.

Kurgan is passionate in his views.. so are others

we are big boys .. we can sling a little Mud .. it all washes off.

Being passionate about your views and opinions is one thing, there are many posts in this thread that are just that, and there is nothing wrong with it..

But the need of a few here to take it to a personal level, as if bashing the person for their opinion is somehow going to win the debate, is petty and immature.

CARL, you need to stop trying to belittle others with your infinate wisdom of the last 40 years of persecution you have suffered at the hands of the Canadian government.

Okay i apologize for belittling you and kurgan, but you guys are still naive and probably the stupidest people on this forum with all things considered.

And my {infinite} wisdom should be pretty much common sense by now, you would hope.....hence that is the historical fact of where things have ended up... I definitely wouldn't want you guys holding the keys.

They still can't just walk in. There has to have been a crime committed first, they have to believe the perpetrator or evidence of said crime is inside.

They can't walk in because Mrs. Wilson saw you cleaning your .308 (or god forbid a freaking toy), then turn around and get a warrant to kick in your door because you wouldn't grant them entry... can they?

Exactly. I will let them in when they have a warrant. I never said any different. I'm just not going to be a sheep and let them come in because they asked, when they initially come to see me. I'll talk to them outside. If I don't exercise my rights, under the law, I don't have any.

And the issue of pointing a gun( that has been brought up), even Airsoft, at somebody is entirely different. You are threatening the public safety. No warrant needed, you will be getting arrested, even if you let them in. And so you should!

Are these real guns (10 or more)you are talking about. That changes the current discussion. We were talking about someone seeing you in the window with A gun type item. This would then bring in all the long gun registry stupidity, which I don't think we want to do.

Also complying with the law, does not mean giving up your rights, even if the police make you think you are not complying when you exercise your rights as a citizen.

You have two choices. Be a sheep and do whatever you are told, or be a knowledgable and informed citizen.:D

I k ow that this is just one city, but that doesn't mean the federal government won't try to make it nation wide, this is what I am so against, hell I'm against long gun registration.

That doesn't mean I won't follow the law if it becomes one. I will however vote against such a law, as I am sure many other people on this forum will.

As has been said, this thread has become a place for peoe to express their thoughts on this bylaw, and people have made the conclution that this by become more common, whatever your thoughts on this, there is no need to attack others.

@multitech: I agree fully

It's a 6 year old revision of a 12 year old law which, according to the word of the law, would require nerf guns and Canadian Tire crapsoft to be registered.

It's not a big deal.

I have a NERF rocket launcher, now I'm worried the local police will think I'm an arms dealer or something. ;)

I'm with Kurgan. A stupid bylaw is still a bylaw; choosing to ignore it won't make it go away. But if I choose to obey the law, even a city bylaw, does that make me less responsible than the people who choose to break that law? Now, if I were to register my guns and they DID confiscate them, do you think I'd encourage my fellow airsofters to do the same thing? I think you know the answer. But so do the cops, and if they truly want people to register their guns, do you think they'd start terrorizing people for it? This isn't Nazi Germany or North Korea, guys. Nobody is getting rich from a $2 registration fee on my airsoft guns.

I did not even think about nerf guns when i read the bylaw, but they definitly count according to the bylaw's definition of air and spring guns.

Somebody should get a group togeather and register a bunch of nerf guns.

And your right, No Big Deal.

Funny thing is the airsofters like me in Fredericton are discussing the matter, not flaming each other.

Apologies to everyone.... cooked and raw. I dont' look at this bylaw as an issues, but more an opportunity to show we're mature enough to comply when needed.

BTW.. the cops don't enforce the bylaws.. we have bylaw enforcement officers. I believe they're the same guys that cruise around giving out tickets to people who park in handycap parking.

which points are incorrect?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...plique-eng.htm

from this cite (RMCP's website)

"As an individual, you may keep any replicas that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess a replica firearm and it does not have to be registered. However, you cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. "

this would include converting an uncontrolled to a replica
so yes you, me and just about everyone here own these illegally

that is not law.. that is RCMP interpretation of law.. on a fact sheet.. and you added the last bit.. that is not on the fact sheet

read the Criminal code and the firearms act that is law


Even hearsay from the RCMP is still hearsay

Anyone who would choose to take possession of an airsoft gun and not know the law.. by actually reading it .. all of it .. Is a fool

Everyone always says "know your rights" .. well your rights are defined by LAW and it is all available free to anyone to read.

Why take my word for it... read the LAW

I've heard about that..

this is true, but the firearms act, which replica firearms fall under, is federal

That is true also.

Honestly, Some of you guys are really harsh on each other. As Cobrajr put it..settle down a little...jeez...

But a requirement to register an air gun would not be federal.. it would be a city by-law, and so a municipal offense punishable by fine.

yes i realize that, I'm refering to the replica firearms portion of this thread. if this "register air guns" policy comes about i will be among the first to register my straws and napkins as gun and ammo!

on a further note... would a slushy straw be considered a air weapon of mass destruction?


Brian if you can post a link to the firearms act. that would be great. i'm at work an should be here let alone trying to comb through the act.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/ criminal Code Canada

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-11.6/ Firearms act Canada

lol Bareass jus trying to justify buying his shitty SRC cansoft, the fox and the grapes, the grapes being shiny cold metal bodied evil baby-killin airsoft guns in this case.

really? no need to justify it at all, i bought it used, and it works.


@brian, thanks anyway, i knew where to find the act, just didn't want to comb through it at work, i'll do it later i guess.

You know what guys...here it is...........Kurgan explain to me and ASC the likely path of registration on a National level, and most importantly explain how showing a sign of "GOOD FAITH" is going to be received by the powers that be and make this community legitimized?

How is that going to be received by the political parties in Canada, and who out of them is actual going to honor our "sign of good faith" with positive legislation...Most of these parties have no idea about Airsoft guns? What do you think there reaction will be? What news coverage can we expect from the CBC? CBC might say another loop hole found in our firearm laws possible,Oh look that NDP private members bill addresses some of these issues. How will RCMP or the "Police Association" take to your sign of "Good Faith".

By all means please explain how this will be done? what do we get out of registering our ASG's, what class will our guns be put under that we can expect these "baby looking killers" to be put in...Will this change our importation laws at the CBSA? Will this benefit us in some way, I guess we will need approved ranges as well, this would go under the CFO of whatever province to over see, new laws would have to be drafted, after all these are registered firearms now? We can't just have war games at a park with the local police permission, can we?

If they start registering the AG's in several towns and cities won't this mean and eventual registration on a national level? I could see Toronto pushing for it, as for Quebec they are always for more firearm laws......

Wow. Some pretty strong and harsh reactions to this topic. Definitely a hot one. I am not sure how this thread got so mangled with nasty words being tossed at each other. People are allowed to believe whatever they want - you can agree or not.

And so... here's my two cents...

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...me_air-eng.htm

All I know is that I got mine before Dec. 1, 1998 so I'm ok :)

Whether or not it is LAW or not, I think the issue of Airsoft guns is well known to police around the country, federal or not, and it is a gray area that some do not know how to deal with. It is the idiots in this airsoft community, nation-wide, that cause issues for all of us and for them and we all get painted with that brush.

It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. It is up to us to behave in a responsible manner, including on a forum, to change their opinions of us.

Either way, I feel that asking people to register these is one step towards them choosing to confiscate them and spoil our fun. You are welcome to go register them and your nerf guns if you wish if this by-law comes to your city, but that is the risk. And if you have enough coin to be able to replace your AEG, PTW, etc. no problem, then have at it.

They, the people who make the laws in the country, are likely not out on the weekends rolling in the dirt with us. If they are - then please ask them to help get the ball rolling on legitimizing this sport. I'm sure they'd have strong support of it. But I am guessing "They" do not like what we do or agree with it, and the fact that our AEGs, GBBRs, PTWs, ABCs... etc look like real firearms scares them I think. And they worry how the idiots in our community might use them. I'm sure you all know an idiot or two in airsoft who does not make a great name for our sport here in Canada.


When it comes to the police knocking on your door at the report of you brandishing supposed automatic weapons, I'm sure you are in your rights to refuse to let them in. They may not bother to ask. They can do what they wish and colour it in the way they like to make it happen for them and worry about it later. I'm sure the slap on their wrist will be less than the pain in the ass you will have to go through. If you are not in law enforcement, you likely have little idea what they deal with daily.

The fact is, with real firearms, unless you were grandfathered in with your automatic rifles before legislation made them prohibited, you cannot own one legally (or so I have been told by some people who own Thompson's and AK's). Unless you have a "prohibited" PAL, but I believe you must be in law enforcement of some kind for that and not even all of them can get it. If not, please let me know otherwise with some links on how to get it legally.

If you own a real AR, which you can legally purchase from most gun stores legally with a restricted PAL, your firearm will be registered with the police. So if someone sees you "cleaning it" through the window and calls the cops, they will know you have one. If I was a cop, I'd be checking to see if there are any registered firearms at a home before going to a call like that. The cops are legally obligated to check it out if someone makes a call like that. So if you have a pissy neighbor they can likely make your life miserable.

If you are dumb enough to clean or "play" with your airsoft gun in plain site of your neighbors to easily see them just by walking by your home on the sidewalk, then expect a visit from the po-po's at some point. How you behave at that point will determine if they feel you are a threat to the community. Any gun call, I would suspect they'd be a bit twitchy and any issues on your part aside from, "yes sir, no sir, I'm sorry officer but that is just not the case", will likely get their feathers ruffled.

I'm sure you can wag your tongue and argue with them all you like about the law and tell them off. You might even intimidate some of the inexperienced ones, but if you are a dick and treat them disrespectfully (especially if there is more than one of them) then I'd say you can plan on a trip to the station in cuffs with your AEGs in tow, and before you can cry wolf, these will be destroyed because you pissed them off. And then you can have fun with all of the legal costs associated with trying to get them back only to find it has been destroyed and then the legal costs of suing them for the costs and proving that you were in the right. Do you realize how much lawyers fees are? Why even put yourself in that kind of situation?

BTW - Are there any lawyers or cops on here than can put some of this stuff to rest? It would actually be nice if there were some police officers who enjoyed airsoft, in our community.

Some of this thread is really quite laughable. And I'm sure I will be a target of some mud tossed too, but whatever.

Point is, you are all welcome to do what you like and think what you like.
You can choose not to carry your airsoft guns in enclosed cases to and from games so that the public can see them.
You can choose to play with them in your home or backyard within view of the public.
You can also choose to give the police a hard time when they come a knocking (if they knock at all, depending on how the story was told they received from the "public").
You can choose to register them and risk confiscation from unclear legislation or however someone decides to interpret the law. You can choose not to register them and get fined or confiscated too possibly.

You can also choose to behave responsibly and case your weapons to and from games. Not clean them right in plain site for any to easily see. Play the game responsibly. And perhaps the police will not be knockin at your door.

These are not toys, just as a hockey stick is not a toy. If you shoot someone in the eye with these, regardless of the fps, you could cause seriously injury. There are tards in our communities doing things like this, whether it be in the airsoft community or the "cansoft" community. People need to take some responsibility first before anyone will listen to us to change the laws. And that is not going to happen anytime soon, especially based on what I have seen here. They need to get those "cansoft" guns off the shelves and out of the hands of children.

And guaranteed if the ones who determine the laws saw this thread, I think it would only make them feel more strongly that, in general, there are far too many immature individuals playing this sport to be considered responsible enough to own these "weapons" or for them to want to change the laws.

It is not the people who have registered firearms that are the problem and breaking the laws robbing people and such (I hope so anyway). It is the criminals who do not register their guns and do not get them legally in the first place.

Be that as it may, that does not change how our sport can be viewed by outsiders including the press. It is a long time before airsoft is legitimized in my opinion. In the meantime, act responsibly and enjoy the game while you can. And if you know any reporters or politicians or police who play this sport perhaps they might be able to help it become legitimized some day. Treat them well.

Just thought I'd try to add to the healthy discussion part of this thread...

Guys stop screwing this thread up, i want to read the Kurgans reply...........

Yes i await the Kurgan too....


YouTube - The Kurgan

So if the RCMP confiscate and test your gun and it shoots below 407 w/.22s then how is it legal? That would make it a replica. It came in as an unregulated firearm but it was modified to become a replica. That's like saying Meth is legal because you bought the chemicals to make it legally then modified them to make Meth. No, Meth is still illegal.

There are in fact a number of Lawyers and Police officers active in this community.. they don't advertise the fact however.

Like them... I would loose my livelihood if convicted of a firearms offense. which is why I thoroughly researched the law and got a legal opinion regarding the possession and use of Airsoft guns before I ever purchased my first gun.

A lot of people say that the law defining airsoft guns is "grey" .. it's not it is clearly written in black ink in the criminal code.

I'm 100% confident that I do not own any replica firearms, though I have quite a number of imitation firearms and Unregulated firearms.

I am 100% confident that everything I have is 100% legally possessed

I'm not afraid of some city Bylaw. Bylaws are designed to provide a punishment for breach, they are not a deterrent.

Law states "capable of discharging" so you have an effective defense against such a charge.
An item has to be Proven to be a replica .. it can't be defined as such in the absence of evidence in the context of a criminal proceeding.

So what you're saying is that it can be made capable of firing above the 407fps mark, therefore it is an unregulated firearm? But doesn't that mean it can be made capable of firing above 500 fps making it a regulated firearm? Or does it have to make the 5.X joule requirements as well?

Here in Calgary their is a City By-Law what prohibits a person from bringing a firearm onto Calgary Transit property or vehicles/trains. Most people have never heard about it. I know about it because of a friend of mine who owns guns and relies on public transit to get around. He has had a few encounters with Calgary Police and he has yet to get a ticket. He is smart and knows the law and is able to articulate it.

And by a "few encounters" i mean he and one of the Sergent's from the TAC team are on a first name basis.....

You sanctimonious ass!! I am sorry I'm not normally given to insulting people on these threads but this kind of crap just pushes my buttons. By sanctimoniously claiming you are a law abiding citizen you are inferring that the rest of us are hillbilly militia joining underground criminal rubes out to undermine society, what horeshit. Everyone on this thread is law abiding and believes in the rule of law but because we also believe in the limits of government to intrude on individual rights or freedoms, freedoms by the way that have been entrenched and evolved in western society since the Magna Carta you in your liberal moral superiority think we are all scary and need to be contained somehow. Give your head a shake.

500 fps AND 5.7 joules there MAY be a couple of top end bolt action platforms skirting that limit .. but a AEG or GBB airsoft gun really can't be made to do it

Me thinks someone should put together a thread combing all the collective info on the laws that prove the legality of airsoft guns, and very politely ask a mod to put it in the FAQ section so no one will read it. :facepalm:

Too many people are uninformed on the laws, and really need to get informed.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23034
And there is a lot more info on this forum and the criminal code, and the firearms act. So read before saying what you think the laws are, or what you heard the laws are, Hearsay is bullshit and there is no excuse for that kind of ignorance. All that matters in law, is what the black ink says, so read it, don't assume, just understand what the words clearly say. I don't care what any uninformed fool thinks, airsoft is Perfectly legal, and parents need to stop buying it for their stupid children.

brian, have you ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

You can try it....but this is why i was stressing on Bureaucracy before..

Good luck though, it would be great if you can win..

Bareass, this has been happening for quite some time to a certain degree..
A few of us have discussed this directly with CBSA agents face to face.

Many retailers already follow this model for importation, they just don't discuss their business models here on the forums in public.

EDIT: The Agent may not want to follow his/her own guidelines. However once the item is correctly defined by function, it gets a pass.

Sage advice Brian thanks ...printed myself a copy of the firearms act ...time to do some reading.

OH FOR FUCKSAKKES.

All you children, sit the fuck down and pay attention to the people here who know what they're talkin about.

The fucking letter of the law doesn't matter. Joules and FPS etc etc DOESNT MATTER. A cop answering a gun call is not a lawyer, not an expert on the CCC or the firearms act, and certainly doesn't give a shit about your rights to own a toy gun that you did or didn't own before 1998.

At the end of the day, the cops can kick your ass if they WANT TO, and they may pay the price later, but ultimately if you go up against the cops you're going to get fucked. You have every right to walk around with your registered firearm in your house, and the cops will very likely knock your fucking door down on RPG.

As far as actual warrants are concerned, NO BIG DEAL. All they have to do is get on the phone with the judge and explain the RPG, and the Judge approves the warrant verbally "in the interests of time and public safety". Later, you may be good to go, but right there and then you're going to get mollested, and most likely, charged for something. That means a long drawn out legal battle YOU have to fight, and THEY don't.

Reasonable Probable Grounds. Understand it, and understand that all your fucking rights with regard to search and seizure go on hold if a cop has "reasonable probable grounds" to believe there's a prohibited weapon in your house.

Stand up for your rights, but know that the cops will stand up for theirs too. You might win in the end, but a lot of good people have wound up with bad charges for being in contempt of cop, nothing more.

One more thing. I see a whole lot of "good ideas" by a lot of you new people. That's great, but give us a little credit. Some of us have been doing this for 15 years or more, and you're not the first kid to suggest all the bright ideas, nor the first to try it.

GUNS ARENT PC. DRESSING UP AS A SOLDIER AND SHOOTING EACH OTHER, even in the guise of a sport, is NOT PC. A Politician has nothing to gain by supporting us, and far more to lose.

how exactly do you think importers are doing it now?

How do you think nearly 30 different models of airsoft guns from several manufacturers got listed on the firearms registry table and defined as unregulated firearms?

Why do you think most brick and mortar store owners and importers only bring in Clear Frame pistols? ( GBB pistols can't be made to fire over 407 FPS with .22g, so they put them on clear frames so they can't be considered replicas by CBSA)

This is the way I look at it.. Airsoft guns exist in a quantum state between prohibited Replicas and legal imitation and or unregulated firearms.

Depending on the context of the observer the item may be found to be in any one of those states.

CBSA observation defaults at replica

the law Defaults at replica if an offense has been committed

In the absence of an offense airsoft guns "rest" in a constant state of being an imitation firearm ( no one can argue that) or in the case of legal import unregulated firearm if their physical properties define them as such ( capable of causing significant bodily harm)

This is where people get the idea that the law is "grey" it's not..

Every airsoft gun is an imitation firearm full stop. that is the only absolute other definitions must be triggered by contextual observation.

Or you could just get a bfa with the option to import replicas and firearms (like all the retailers in canada). Probably less of a hastle, since the cbsa employee checking your package may be oblivious to the letter that apparently overrides the rules they are paid to follow, the bfa is already something they would know about (think of them as Canada post employees, keep it simple*)

*no offense to any Canada post employees reading this.

There are a whole bunch of people who used to retail using that idea. Guess where they are today?

I'm pretty sure that you don't need a BFL to import an unregulated firearm since it's unregulated. Retailers in Canada don't use BFLs with an option to import replicas because transferring and selling them to civilians is very much illegal. Those are meant for prop companies.

Not in business or the Hooscow.

Business Firearms Licenses ( BFL ) are only issued if you have a legitimate need to import replicas.. As transfer of replicas to individuals is illegal a BFL won't help you much.
In the last great purging of retailers in the mid late 2000s it was abuses of BFL due to illegal retailing that caused the collapse.

Retailers now.. ( generally, as there are still some border runners ) import unregulated firearms, some then downgrade the guns before retail

not to mention they're difficult to obtain, where do people get these "facts"

Very outdated information. A lot of stuff needs to be cleaned up it seems.

Oh, apparently my understanding of how the retailers do it is wrong, must read more, btw thanks for pointing that out for me guys.


Yes it does, that's the second time info I have read as "fact" on this forum has turned out to be outdated. Perhaps someone could go through the faqs and fix these errors. (subtle hint for a mod with some time to kill)

check the post date when reading, that should clue you in, then look for more recent info

Yeah, There have been many developments since 2003 and the Airsoft initiative. It's been 8 years. And people have been defaulting on the "read the FAQs noob" crap for years but things have changed.

Hush you, don't go injecting truth or logic into this thread. It's too damn funny the way it is.

Oh due tell...........lol.

Tell us the sad stories so people out there can know.......

give this thread a read

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=71224

No argument.... ( crap hope it wasn't my post that brought this on... lol) but in the unfortunate event you do find yourself on the receiving end despite your precautions chances are probably good that your going to have to educate your lawyer.

I know about Will, I bought my first AEG from him through asc, that guy didn't deserve that, amongst so many others, this is why i get fired up at people like Kurgan & others. My first ASG i bought back in the nineties and remember them shutting that guy down too, he was off the 400 just past King city where there is that service center, fuck times have changed. But things in some way have gotten better..

Thread cleaned of childishness and a bunch of infractions handed out.

I'd explain it but I think I'll just let Darwinism follow its course.

Thats the best thing ive heard all day!!! I hate parents buying soft-air guns for their 12 year olds. COD has done nothing then make 12 year olds think walmart guns are awesome.


In the US a lot of places allow 12 year olds to play which i am completely against. Shooting a 12 year old isnt cool.

Absolutely, you will. And no it wasn't you, it was some new guy a few pages back saying "quote me the law that says the cops don't need a warrant to enter your house".

Street lawyers piss me off because they're usually wrong, or half-right, and think they're experts.

I also get pissed off because to me, this kind of bullshit conversation is offensive. It's offensive to me that anyone thinks it's ok to have to register any piece of property because "I have nothing to worry about if I'm not doing anything wrong". Except that with the stroke of a pen, you might very well be doing something wrong, and then they're coming for your property and laying charges against you if you can't, or won't produce it. And when that happens? Oh shit, I guess I never thought about it that way...

...Except a fuckton of us HAVE thought of it that way, we were the ones who got screwed by C68 and woke up as criminals for life with a temporary reprieve in the form of a firearms license, which can be revoked at the whim of the CFO based on little to no evidence, and BLAMO we're fucking criminals just like that.

Now, this pisses me off because we yell, and we scream about how much of a baaaad idea it is to accept registration of your property, as if your property were capable of inflicting harm by itself, and by extension you become a dangerous person who can't be trusted with plastic toys that are worthy of being "Registered"...and the answer I see is "You're paranoid".

I'm not fucking paranoid....I lost like everyone else when they screwed us the first time and I will not be screwed again.

We register GUNS in the country, but not SEX OFFENDERS.

Fact of the matter is Morb people never see the truth until it hits home for them and by then it's too late.

No citizen of a free nation should ever willingly relinquish their rights to enjoyment of their private property. Somewhere along the line people all nodded along as property rights where violated all in the name of government knows best.


Simply put, take responsibility for your ownership of your property and your actions with said property.

Cheers

And most of the people that think it's a good idea do so because it doesn't affect them personally. That self-centered, self-important but oh so Liberal mentality that because something seems like a bad idea to them, it should be prohibited from everybody, less their own bias or ignorance somehow allow someone else to prove them wrong.

"Do you support the gun registry?"
"Oh of course. Guns are dangerous".
"And do you think the Government should have strict requirements for licensing of gun owners?"
"Oh of course, guns are dangerous."
"And do you think background checks should be conducted before a license is issued?"
"Oh absolutely. Guns are dangerous".
"Do you own any firearms?"
"Of course not. Guns are dangerous."
"Do you think semi-automatic machine guns and assault pistols should be banned?"
"Oh, nobody needs a gun that can shoot a dozen bullets with a single pull of the trigger!"

Ask the same person about kitchen knives. Well that's different...they have those in the kitchen and they'd never use them to hurt anybody so why should they need a license for them? They're just kitchen knives after all.

Problem is "they" fail to recognize that no inanimate object is dangerous, it is the person misusing the object that presents the danger. Hell a table leg is dangerous if I bludgeon someone with it, but we would never consider registering furniture now would we. Just another case of ignoring reality.

Well, although I agree with you, I think it's deeper than that. It's the belief that because something seems dangerous, and serves no useful purpose to *them*, there's no reason for it to serve any useful purpose to *anyone* and society would be better without it.

It's accepting that somehow, someone else can determine what's right or wrong, and you accept it because as long as you're a good guy, it won't affect you personally.

It's the mentality that believes you can give a man fish forever, and he'll somehow learn how to fish.

A bit dramatic, but every now and then this needs to be reposted:

Rights? What rights? We don't even own what is under our land. We are subjects of the crown and the whims of the sovereign. But Canadian politicians have control of the crown via parliament and the GG. It's just a fucked up system that needs some fundamental changes beginning with true Citizen's rights and a system for the people, not for the crown.

We do have rights, and although they don't include property, they are rights nonetheless and should NOT be infringed upon, and no person should wilfully allow those rights we have to be legislated away.

ESPECIALLY by some fucking tin-pot city council that has neither the authority nor the right to do so.

I think that is a more coherent way of looking at it. The problem is getting "the them they" to see this fundamental truth.

A good analogy for "change" is that of a car in reverse. You need to stop moving backwards before you can start moving forward.

some of this information is a bit contradictory, would someone mind clearing something up for me?
the BFL is a license which would allow you to import replica firearms, but people who have used this have been fined, shut down, locked up or what have you, for using a BFL to import airsoft guns and sell them? did i read this correctly?

if that is the case, then airsoft guns are considered replicas, or is this just the pistols.
if this is the case, then why do stores like 007 have to sell the guns so hot in order to sell them. he is importing them hot to sell them as unregistered firearms. correct?

This question has been asked and answered literally a thousand times here on ASC. Read Honest John's thread on this matter:

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609

read it.... lets clarify to people who don't know, honest john's name was changed correct?

so from what that thread says, airsoft guns are legal to own, but illegal to buy, sell, trade, give. but know one seems to care.

so is what brian said accurate? if a gun can be modified to fire hot enough it is not considered a replica, or must it be in that condition at the time of purchase/import?

Its all interpretive by whoever handles the package on the way in.

Essentially, the BFL allows the import of prohibited items or replicas, but only for the purposes of supplying them to authorized individuals (movie studio's, for example). None of the general public are considered authorized to purchase replicas, so if you use it to sell to the public you're breaking the law.

There were a half dozen retailers that were using the BFL to bring in their stock. At least two were charged, one that I know of was convicted, and the others gave up the trade because it wasn't worth the risk.

Carl,
I've attempted to answer your questions below... admittedly, some require longer and more detailed responses, but I wanted to keep things short, as the response itself was going to take up a considereable amount of screen already. I encourage your to review and comment, inquire or critique where necessary.

------------------------------
Kurgan explain to me and ASC the likely path of registration on a National level, and most importantly explain how showing a sign of "GOOD FAITH" is going to be received by the powers that be and make this community legitimized?

I’ve no idea how it will be received, and by the same token, neither do you. So any conclusions we may draw are merely opinion based and subject to our personal feelings towards the matter. However, effort should be made on our side to ensure we take part in the discussions that occur and we emphasize the efforts made by the National Community to keep these airsoft accessories out of the hands of people we find are underage or those we’ve refused to grant and AV status to.

How is that going to be received by the political parties in Canada, and who out of them is actual going to honor our "sign of good faith" with positive legislation...

Positive legislation can only be accomplished with the direct involvement of the stakeholders and the government. If either fails to commit fully on their end, the legislation is destined to favor the more vocal and aggressive side.

Most of these parties have no idea about Airsoft guns? What do you think there reaction will be? What news coverage can we expect from the CBC? CBC might say another loop hole found in our firearm laws possible,Oh look that NDP private members bill addresses some of these issues.

As with any introduction, it needs to be structured in a manner that not only shows the players are from all walks of life and professions, but are intelligent, safety oriented and understand the false impressions the public may have about the sport and it’s accessories.

How will RCMP or the "Police Association" take to your sign of "Good Faith".

I would like to believe (and it’s only my opinion) that all Law Enforcement groups would be viewing anyone who registers their “accessories” as law abiding and understands that Law Enforcement can only benefit by knowing what is out there. A “safety of the officer” spin could be used here.

By all means please explain how this will be done? what do we get out of registering our ASG's, what class will our guns be put under that we can expect these "baby looking killers" to be put in..

Quite frankly, airsoft guns would be better off if they were in a class of their own. It would make legislation easier (double edged sword, I agree).

Will this change our importation laws at the CBSA?

Perhaps, if the progression is as described previously.

Will this benefit us in some way, I guess we will need approved ranges as well, this would go under the CFO of whatever province to over see, new laws would have to be drafted, after all these are registered firearms now? We can't just have war games at a park with the local police permission, can we?

It would benefit us, in that the game would be recognized and understood better. If they were to research and investigate the game on their own where would they go? ASC where they can view this thread? Or would we prefer to organize a press release or interview where we can disseminate the information in a fashion that meets our requirements.

If they start registering the AG's in several towns and cities won't this mean and eventual registration on a national level? I could see Toronto pushing for it, as for Quebec they are always for more firearm laws......

I honestly don’t know how many towns or cities would bother with a bylaw such as this one, and the jump from bylaw to federal law is quite a step. I know there are cities in the U.S. where airsoft guns are illegal, but given their issues with handgun and gang related violence I understand it.

How we can turn this story into an opportunity for positive

We can start by switching our attitudes towards staying in the closet about this sport. I’m not saying that we should all rally to City Hall or our Provincial Legislator Building in fatigues, gear and guns, but we shouldn't run and bury our heads in the sand when situations arise that would warrant a response from an organized body of said sport.

All sports hold press conferences or press releases when something major happens in them, why can’t we. Why can’t we elect a national representation board of players to respond to issues and be the voice of airsoft at a national level.

I’ve tried my best to answer all your questions here… I apologize for the huge post.

The thing is, with more restrictions, comes more crime. i.e. England imposing strict gun laws, gun crime rate has sky rocketed over 900% since it was first introduced

What ever happened to Honest John?

The problem is Kurgan, you may mean well, but I can't see that being received well if at all received. At best we will be thrown in with all the gun groups and then making us a bigger target...

Not trying to be negative but that is the historical trend..

The one thing I am wondering is how do you register them?

With my RS firearms I have a serial number but with airsoft we have what?

and then after registered would you need to transfer that if we sold said gun?

So... would I register? Well if I had to then yes I would just like RS firearms, do I want to?...Hell no

I know this is just one town that has this but if it caught on and it went all over Canada then this would just hurt what we have been trying to do in the RS world.

I did read a post that said something on the lines of " well will me $2 registry fee make someone rich...I don't think so"

In short...yes it will and your taxes will help pay to make them rich just like the long gun registry. I would rather spend that money on educating people on the sport of airsoft.

For those that think registration doesn't lead to confiscation then you need to read a bit more and see what the people in the RS world have been dealing with.

wanna help? follow this link: http://www.canadaammo.com/product.ph...4&cat=7&page=1 cause when it happens in airsoft we will need all the support and more

I think one of the trends I'm seeing is the comparison or inclusion of RS with airsoft. I understand the replica arguement and the idea that they both invoke the same public and legal reaction when used in crimes, but one has considerably more potential, that being the ability to take someone's life.

Honestly, I'm not concerned about RS, I have mine and they're all registered, stored, cared for and used properly and safely. My sons (18 & 21) also have RS, and they've learned most of thier behaviour with guns from me, and a little from the HS/FS course offered by DNR.

If we begin making a case that they are different, perhaps the public or government will ease restrictions (I know fat chance of that). If (I notice I use "if" a lot here) government eased it's stand, then perhaps purchasing, importing and using wouldn't have such a stigma associated with them.

I think the whole "register Airguns" thing was a kneejerk reaction of the police in the town mentioned... I doubt they thought it through with respect to how, why .. costs

you would need retailers to get on board, you would need to create a database.. the costs would be prohibitive over the possible benefit.

it's really a non starter.

it's much ado about nothing at the end of it.

Never offer to register items. You do it if you are forced to.

Anyone who thinks volunteering to do that is good is an idiot. It's like offering to give your DNA just in case they might be able to use it to convict you of something later. I can't even fathom how insane or twisted a mind must be to find logic and reason in doing that.

Sometimes, shaking your head in utter disbelief is insufficient.

Police go into EVERY situation assuming there may be firearms present, registry check or not. They did that before the registry, and still do it today. And that's how it SHOULD be. After all, the people they REALLY have to worry about having guns (criminals) are not going to have their guns registered.

Cop 1: "We're going into this welfare slum dwelling in response to a domestic dispute call."

Cop 2: "Ok, checking the gun registry now for that address. Nope. No guns present at this address..."

Cop 1: "Ok, nothing to worry about here then."

If that doesn't sound utterly retarded to you, then you need to give your head a shake.

Secondly, the statistics about how many times a day the registry are checked are irrelevant. As soon as an officer looks up an address, vehicle plate, checks a name, etc, the computer automatically polls the firearms registry whether or not the officer wants it, and regardless of whether the information is useful in his particular situation. This is where the "the registry is useful because it's checked 210891724098214098 times a day by officers in the line of duty" statistic comes from. It makes the statistic irrelevant.

Registration of firearms - real or replicas - is pointless. It's a means for easy confiscation, nothing more.

That being said, I'm a RS owner, and I've complied with the law and registered my guns. I have to because it's the law. I held out on registration as long as I possibly could. And had I been able to not register them, I wouldn't have.

+1

Hear that....