One of the problems of nubs/noobs buying crapsoft is they then sign for a game, take up a spot (in a capped game, this is usually a coveted position), attend and have a failure because the crapsoft, craps out. Then this leads to a scramble of lending that player a weapon, and if there was a gunsmith at the game even willing to look at the crapsoft (I have seen a couple take pity on a new player) and attempt to fix the problem during the game. Since we have good people in the majority of the playing population this is great help for the noob, but irritating to the host who now has 2-6 players out of game handling the crapsoft issue.

The sport in CANADA is expensive, nubs/noobs are consistently and repeatedly told to budget a minimum $1000 just to get started.

That number was never selected to create a since of elitism but was determined by a great great many senior players so that new players would have a realistic sense of cost so that they could adequately budget for it.

Yea But, by your own admission


Considering their prices are half (on avarage) what ours are you can only imagine what it really costs up here. But wait you've got that problem all figured out don't you.

So I don't see why you think Airsoft is a big daunting sport when your clearly so well informed that you can spend half (or less) what we do and walk away with a big grin on your face knowing that this community only cares about "our ego's" and "the classifieds"


I will leave you with this insight that explains behaviour such as that has been displayed in recent times.

Who ever started to tell nubs that $500 is a good starting point should maybe look at his list of equipment and maybe join us in 2010 pricing, the last time I remember a nub pay anywhere close to $500 to start playing is back in 92 when Marui MP5 was selling for $250, you can basicly get a Swat gear set up and look for a little over $600.

The $1000 starting budget will get you just that "STARTING" realisticly with today pricing to be "Equiped" you really have to budget around the $1.5 to $2K mark

And it goes up and up and up and up. Hell 500 bucks would not cut it when I started back in 2001. I think I paid close to 800 bucks on my AK with mags and I jury rigged gear together on a shoestring budget because I was spending all my money back then on my bike.

nowadays even if you kept it to one gun. Multiple camo options to ensure you can play greenside/opfor/tan/ect and different weather conditions can push your total cost budget towards 3k.

Thus upon deciding to get back into airsoft I realized that It would cost me around 1800 or so to get what I needed to get myself back into the game to a point where I could enjoy my time and not feel "naked" on the field. But guess what kiddies, Im a broke ass student so its taken me close to 3 months since I "returned" to airsoft and Im still not even close to where I need to be.

Time and Patience.


Cheers

Just an FYI:
Classic army started with making bodies for the Marui G3 Mp5 series, They were awesome back then in fact i still have their G3 1st gen metal bodies for my PSG1 and my HK51 the aeg series your talking about are in fact Pro gear mech (HK Clone of a SYTEMA M140 box) box not Systema. Systema have no ties to classic army aeg, their own line of aeg were assembled with Zeke metal body that split in half vertically instead of the ones you see today, the Zeke/systema bodies comes in three sepearate piece (left and right body and a lower body assembly) they are a perfect fit no dremel required unlike the classic army or 1st gen G&P bodies.

wow Heck of a thread, from Info to name calling..
base idea of cost and kit needed to play.
how about a sniper load out. assuming He makes his own Gillies..

(FYI being a member of an on line sniper group that has been called elitiest once or twice, its just a word, it means as much as you let it.)
If your game play requires a weapon, you spend what you believe will get you there, How ever if you take the time to learn, you might find a weapon that does the job fo a couple hundred bucks. If you are going to dump 20 000 rounds in a day, spend a least $1000.00 on a weapon, mags and battery or
find a used one from a reputable member.

if your going to simply toss a couple 1000 bbs around, you might not need to spend 1000.00, but if you spend that now, its likely the 1000.00 weapon will be able to change as you style changes..
Its just like paint ball, spend 250 on a prolite and $300 bucks worth of modifcations (Springs, valve body, 7 port vented Bolt and some special barrel) and you just bought a 550$ marker that will last for years or you go drop 500$ on a lightly used Angel and play for years throwing paint out of it making the cheapsters cry when you get them from 30 yards out of their range.

Now, you could also mod up the angel and its a whole new ball game again..
Its a savage circle.. but it is what it is..

Well being a newb to the sport myself, I was a little leary about spending $300 to $1000 on a gun to just try the sport. However fortunately for me I live in an area where there are quite a few airsofters out there. And like many people not everybody has a weekend off or what have you. So for the entire event a buddy of mine lent me a gun, molly vest etc. So really to "TRY" the sport cost me nothing but $5 bucks for the field fee. I got to try out a variety of different guns, from others at the event.
A day out, and a newb like me will know whether or not they love the sport or not. So I agree pissing away $150 or even $30 bucks for pos walmart or canadian tire gun would be stupid.
Two weeks later and I just got my first aeg, and HAPPILY spent $600. and another 200 or so on some start up gear. :( sadly thats all I could by at the moment.
Well I wouldn't call someone an elitist because they want to drop $2000 on equipment, practical maybe. I'd reserve an elitist comment for someone who goes out of there way to have the exact load out as a specific military or whatever unit. Or those who only do mil-sim, maybe.

The best way to try out airsoft is to contact a local group and rent.

Period.

You can try before you invest, you just have to make the effort to seek out players.

+1000

Ask around to borrow or rent a real AEG. You will not get the full feel of the hobby if you buy a $30 gun from walmart and try to compete.

Edit: While the guns probably the most interesting piece of kit they only come third in importance.

1. Good eye protection that you can count on and is comfortable. You only have one pair of eyes, baby them.
2. Good comfortable boot. Take care of your feet so that they will take care of you.

Even then the elitist term wouldn't apply in my opinion. Now if they were to use the fact that they have exactly replicated a military unit as a way to ridicule someone or make themselves feel like a better player for it then thats when elitist should be thrown around. Being an elitist is not defined by the gear you wear, the guns you shoot or whatever. Its an attitude, a state of mind. A false sense of superiority over issues that have no bearing on how "good" a player.

Amen Brother!

I may only be AV'ed for a few months...but I have done a couple years worth of research before this.

BRAVO.. encore even.
well said Sir

Give it a try!
 

Awesome advices!
This is me, a noob calling to fellow noobs out there :D
I tried my first airsoft game yesterday with a rental m4 and a few others that players brought to the game.
Now i understand how the game goes, rules and gun operation. I know what gun i want and how to get them. It all started by coming out for an event.

Definitely recommend any new player to try out a game first before wasting a a bunch of money on a gun then find out you dont like the sport.
Good eye protection is a must, definitely.

hydration, hydration, HYDRATION...
WATER is your friend...
4th on the list of must have for the Newbie.

I must say that your opinion is good, but it's not absolute verity.

Airsoft is a hobby. You can have fun withouth a 600+ $ gun.
U can have fun without a tactical vest, helmet, nametag, and even camo.
We are a social airsoft league ;) At each game, we choose two picks. Never the same people.Then, we split team. If its not even, some players change team, so everyone is habing fun.

Buying a cheap gun is a good way, in my opinion, to get used to the game. To know what are the dynamics. To know what is your style of play. I see many new players buy sniper (Gonna sniper them all, sneaky!). Then they realise sniping is not for everyone.

Not everyone have a lot of money. Some people dont work, are at school, have kids, etc. Its just a question of priority. In the group where i play, we all began with Canadian Tire gun, or cheap AEG. We found a nice terrain (old mine), and with time, players buy new guns. With the old guns, there is new player to try them!

So, for playing airsoft and having fun, u need a AEG, glasses or googles, and guts. Thats all.

Tactical vest wont help u shoot at others. Even if its a crappy Pulse R76, from Canadian Tire, if u are well placed, know to shoot, u can be good and having fun.

Now, I have that 'crappy R76'. I did buy it from Canadian Tire, too. But, I'm 14, it's my first gun, and I like it. I'm not here to argue with you about it, just figured I'd agree with you that, really, no matter what gun you have, if you can shoot, you can win.

Also, OP, that was an awesome rant.

And, I have a budget of exactly $20 most of the year, so my R76 is my only one.

Unrelated note: Are there ANY non-age restricted games near Toronto?? Seriously.

Not for 14 year olds.

No. You can however attend games and watch and maybe play at hosts discretion but dont expect to be able to compete with that R76, and at 14... Short answer no, just no. You will have to wait till your about 16 till you can start really getting involved and playing.

Ok, thanks.

You may notice, if you care, that I may have been a dumbass noob beforehand.....I'm making myself stop that now though. 16 isn't too far.
Of course, if that 2012 thing happens it'll piss me right off.:rolleyes:

Thanks for posting that message, it cleared some things up for me, although I do have one question; exactly what don't you like about G&G?, I just bought a G&G m4 blowback as my first gun for 450$, I am a newb but my friends who have c/a and t/m guns tell me its a pretty reliable gun and that it was a good idea picking it up as my first. Is it because its not an actual replica or is it because its not fully metal etc. Please go easy on me as this is my first post and I am just curious and want to hear more experienced players' opinions about G&G

Most of us have seen a recent wave of G&G guns in the wild and just about any out here has had an issue and died in action. For example your selector switch will snap off at just the wrong time and you're left with a dead gun for the day.

Now if you're savvy you'll have a backup so your day isn't ruined and you'll be able to take that thing home and fix it up. If it's your first gun and you poured every penny you had into buying it then you're out. You don't know how to fix it, you can't afford the parts you broke, or you can't afford to pay someone who knows how to fix it.

So you wind up in a much worse spot than the guy who paid a few hundred bucks more and had to wait another month before he could play.

You know what sucks about airsoft in Canada? I can't play until I'm 18(For some godforsaken reason only insurance companies know) and the prices. I looked at the same gun on an American site and then the same on a Canadian one. There's a literal 400 dollar difference. The gun I bought for 120 will run 300 here. The reason? Canada's weird and frustrating gun laws. Make up your mind! It's either a gun or it's not! Now I know why it's not popular. You have to spend 600 bucks for a good gun. That's a lot of money for someone who can't afford to spend that. In America a good gun might cost 250-400. A decent one 100-250. Here, 600-800 and 300-500. That's why a lot of people go clearsoft. Money. But not me. I got a JG and then upgraded the shit out of it. The same kind of gun I have know would cost me 450 easy. 120 (plus upgrades 200). 450. BIG Difference.

That is all.

Oh boy...

Complaining about not being able to play until you are 18 in regards to insurance companies is like bitching that no one wants to give you car insurance at 16.

Read and understood first post.

good to know

I started playing airsoft at the local CQB arena. loved the game but didn't like renting equipment for 30 bucks a game and 280rounds. Since I was paying $120 every month to play anyway I figured I should buy my own equipment. or at least my own weapon. I went out and got the G&G model out of frustration and not being able to purchase here. (still not av'ed a year later) I did a lot of looking around and found that those that had them were happy with them. I gotta say I'm glad I got it 1 year of service down over 40,000 rounds through it and not one problem. At first I thought the clear lower reciever looked cheap and fake, but it hasn't affected performance. It's still my only weapon I carry into battle. And since I play strictly CQB its all I really need. Mind you I did buy a few add-ons in the past few months to improve my aim and conserve rounds. other than that its completely stock.

Now I'm planing on custom painting it something completely my own to cover up that lower reciever and no one will know the difference.

As most cant tell i am new two airsoft as well as not been on the forum not to long i tended to stay in the shadows reading as much as i can and waiting till i am able to get Av'ed and i can tell you one thing that i am not going to be cheaping out and made a sticky pad booklet with a list of items i will be getting or hoping to be getting..I have done a rough estimate of round $4000...some thing that are on my list include...G&G Gr16 (blowback)...TSD/Well L96 TSD...Sd700 (planing on upgrading)...KJW 1911 MEU...G&G Gr16a3 (C7 project)...now for gear i have down...Condor Non-Ballistic MoLLE plate Carrier (86.99)...hydration and blatter...Voodoo Tactical Trauma Kit w/Medkit...3 Double M4 mag pouches (Holds 4 Each)...Double Pistol Mag Pouch...WILEY-X NERVE Ballistic Tactical Goggle (94.99) Voodoo Crossfire Glove(mind you they look sweet) and a few other things i wont mention to keep this post short..Ps..will OpsGear send to Canada?


EDIT...Also i have a pair of boots Blawk Hawk Warrior Wear Black Ops Boots for $170

Thats quite the list.....

can I ask why so many guns on the list? Don't get me wrong most of us have more then one gun but usually don't start with a list of so many guns

unless this was not a "start with" list

I admire your ambition. Can I also offer you some carriage returns and periods? :p

Meh, all clone sniper rifles are POS, i'd save up for something better when you're verified.

That's still not all of it but yaa the guns are not a start with just the gear and everything else will be to start with the starter guns i would mostly get would be the Gr16 blowback and the TSD SD96

lol sure I will take those offers thank you lol i kno im horrible at grammer and all that stuff so i just tend not to care


EDIT...Still not use to how things are on ASC as you can tell ^^

those are terrible guns.

so you say i really don't care iv heard but good things about G&G and TSD so i figure i would give em a try...plus ever since i started looking into airsoft the G&G Gr16 Blowback and the TSD SD96 were the main ones i always had my sight set on to buying and if i dont like them the most that will happen is i would buy a new AEG and have the GR16 as a wall hanger and i would be upgrading the 96 anyways

noobs know everything didn't you know? and that first post should have been in the introduction section

Actually its not just him thats saying. While you are free to purchase whatever funs and gear you so choose, why ask for opinions of you are just going to poo poo a member with quite a bit of experiance? If you are set on an L96 do yourself a favor (especially if you plan to upgrade) and get a TM. With chinese clones there are poor fitment issues with upgrades and because of this many do not have the effect they are suppose to. And while agree a G&G is not a bad gun if you get AV'd you could shop around and get a good gun for around the same price. Anyways just a few things to keep in mind,and I can promis you that my response is much kinder and less vulgar than what you will get if you continue like that after asking a question. But then again you probably will ingore this message and do what you wish anyways.

And yes Ops Gear does ship to Canada, but they use UPS and charge outragous amounts for brokerage.


Tom

Ic Ic then i will not go any futher and will take the advice and consider a TM. The fact that i am unable to get any transportation to any game nor money for a game in order for me to be able to get AV'ed at the moment. Furthermore the asking of opinions was just to ask if the gear i have chosen any good for a first time thing so i do apologize on my part.

Ps:..(off topic sorry) i was just wondering why is it that almost every other page i go to it logs me off

Well if you ask nicely maybe one of the nice AVers in your area might meet up with you some place local. And no clue for the logging of thing. Harley always suggests clearing your cookies and trying again. Oh and as for gear if you like it and the quality is worth the cash go for it. I've seen people play in everything from 100% real gear to shorts and a Vikings jersey.

So it wouldn't be weird if I gamed half-naked?

I have talked to Mr. Evolusion but right now i dont have any photo ID so im just waiting on getting my photoed health card

Clearly, I, who have had these guns on my workbench, which have been used a fair amount by fellow players, to be able to make an informed opinion on them, know nothing compared to the amount of knowledge you've accumulated about them through looking at them on the internet.

I'm sorry for doubting your knowledge.


It's easy to pick those as the best, out of what you know is available to you. For us who know what is actually available, these are close to bottom of the barrel.

^^ agree
those guns are ok but wait til you get av'ed then decide what gun you want. It's like a candy store of guns. After you'll think of G&G like a KIA and TSD like a POS.

Ah the ASC manufacturing it's own worst nightmare one angry teen at a time.

lool in that case i will shall except and choose your help thanks lool


Which i have stated in a previous post of my apology

On side note i did not kno 21 was a teen

Note to new members,... don't poke the bear!

ASC Hate Machine .... Smashing one noob at a time!!!

Damn where's that cartoon when you need it?

Once again my Apologies to all

No problem!!!

ASC seems to beat the hell out of noobs and if they stick around, well they get beaten down some more. But then acceptance, and more beat downs.

That's alright im use to it I've been picked on and put down all my life so being flamed will be a second nature to me lol.. hell being flamed upon will only make you grow stronger and wiser

I find it funny that you say to people that don't spend alot of money on their gear that they are not actually playing airsoft. To me airsoft is about having fun, you take shit way to far. And this is not coming from somebody who has cheap gear I agree with what you kind of say the amount of money you put in is worth it in the end but you dont need expensive gear to have fun.

No but you need solid performing gear. Airsoft is a team game, its not fair to your whole team if you are ineffective because you are not willing to commit the resouces neccessary to play.

And then someone comes up to you, and wonders why you have all these unnecessary pieces of gear and accessories on, as if impressions weren't allowed, or accepted in airsoft...

To be honest here, I'm someone who plays with a group of people who don't go out and buy 600 dollars of equipment, we're college students and don't have that sort of money anyways.

But whenever we get a guy coming into our games who has 6-7 attachments on his full metal m16 and is wearing a full out ballistics vest under marpat, and a combat helmet.. We definitely make jokes behind their backs.

M16's are mostly plastic.. come on.. you don't need a flashlight.. its day time.. the vest certainly isn't from your job at the call center.. and that helmet must feel awesome being all expensive and durable, but really, you have the nerve to wear ALLLLLL that junk and then claim you arent being hit.

Well, you are indeed being hit, hosed even. Just can't feel it for all the gear.


I see nothing wrong with overdoing it if you're with a group who does that, but when you wear body armor with people who are in camo t-shirts and safety glasses.. You gotta expect that you aren't going to fit in quite that well.


Heck, I use baggy duck hunting camo as my load out and it's so far performed better than any ghillie suit I've seen on the field..

Hunh?

Vests are useful for...you know...holding mags and other important stuff, instead of using one hicap. Hicaps are fine, but if you've not new to the game, you should be using something else like midcaps or lowcaps.

funnily, people overdoing it, covered in brand new gear, are usually beige.

Some games are quite clear re. camo patterns/etc... Teams, game logistics and other things incorporate it into game play. When a guy flaunts that and shows up in runners and a hoodie it looks like ass and is an embarassment.

Similarly, when somone shows up in head to toe multicam and a SCAR....and it's a WW2 re-enactment game...that guys looks like a tool.

When the game/event is a non-stop no-break milsim game...and guys break off to go to their car to reload, have lunch, etc....it kills the game flow and irritates the host to no end. For these types of games you're expected to do whatever you need to do to sustain yourself in action for the duration of the game. Anything short of that kills things for everyone else.

So the theme of this is such:
- Take the time and care to review the game thread well in advance. Make sure you and your buddies are set and good to go. If you have questions...post them because it's a sure thing others have the same questions.
- If the game isn't your type of game...then don't go. To "go against the game" and just do whatever the hell you want is disrepecting the host, your teammates and every other player there. Same goes for ammo caps/loadouts/FPS/etc...

Note:
- if the host is doing their job, the decision of what to wear/bring should never compromise your safety. In fact, it'll probably err on the side of caution. But in the end...it's your personal duty and responsibility to ensure that you're adequately protected throughout the game.

I would acknowledge that some guys put a lot of time and effort into their loadouts and understandably want to use them. Unless the game specifies otherwise I can't see any issue with gearing up to the nines for a skirmish game. Gear and kit should always be matched to the environment though...so I could see how getting up in an armoured CQB loadout for a field game would be a bit odd.

Airsoft is supposed to be about having fun....but it's not a selfish thing where your own shits and giggles are at the expense of the greater group.

Explain that further please! Im a little concerned about what your implying!!!

LOL..I'm sure he was referring to the colour of the Clothing and gear...you know "tan" aka Beige. I highly doubt it was a racial slur.

edit:

oops I had no idea 'beige' was a racial slur. how does it work exactly? or is it the full expression 'covered in beige'?
and what ethnicity does it refer to?
anyway sorry, I was definitely refering to the gear's color, also called tan.I don't do racial slur.
I call it beige because it sounds gayer.
also I don't own beige gear, I'm an OD person.


wow.I had no idea.

Regardless of gear or skin colour we get lots of new guys dropping in with a Crossman, or Kraken or even a G&G. Someone that's brought out by their friends and wearing borrowed or hunting gear; I'm sure most folks here know them.

So they get a taste for it and keep showing up and you know what happens next. The gun goes down, Sunday AM, hours and miles from anywhere. Then they wind up sitting around for a day. They spend the next few weeks trying to find someone to fix the gun, and those dedicated parts that only fit the flavor they have.

Eventually the guy gets his gun fixed and within 2 games it's broken again and he's out forever.

That's why the older folks will be suggesting a certain minimum buy in for guns.

For gear, yeah you can scuttle around like a rat in sweat pants so on. After a 30c game though you're not getting a drink from my camelback though; that's attached to my vest. Guys I've played a year with I'm happy to toss mags to, folks with a weird CT weapon can't get an ammo hand off in a pinch; and those come out of my vest. I will lend out my multi-tool so folks can fix their gear, and yes that's in my vest too.

And the last thing to say is folks who giggle or posture behind other players backs, even when they feel they're in a safe spot can be overheard and all you do is make yourself appear to be a total jackass. That's both for "new" players who are insecure and for players with a season under their belt who know they're an "elite team".

Hey guys, i completely agree with whats been said here and I am a noob, ive gone out to a coouple of games and tried out some equipment, and ended up buyinga G&G GR16 m4 carbine, the guns works wonders and i tihnk is a perfect buy for a noob, sadly though thats about all ive gotten so far, was wondering if you guys could post up some links or somethin in reply to this post on some good tac vests n other gear? im not planning on cheaping out after what i just read here lol, thanks in advance

This thread really is not for gear suggestions I suggest you scan through this websites newbie section or use the search function located in the upper right corner to find some information that will help you.

Hey I bet alot of us are college students. I don't mean to flame, but this is an expensive hobby. If you want to play, you should be willing to front the cash.

So because someone has the money to make their loadout THEIR OWN and personalize it, you feel the need to be a douchecock? That's very immature and high school. If you say you're in college maybe it's time to start acting like a man?

Again, who the fuck are you to criticize what someone wears to an airsoft scrim or milsim? If someone wants to dress up and "play soldier", welcome to airsoft, that's what we do. We emulate soldiers (by no means do those of us who aren't serving, for the most part, think that it's just like this in RL) and getting kitted out is part of that experience. Also, if someone isn't calling their hits, light them up. If they still aren't, get over it or mention it to an admin. Don't be a bitch. It's no question that gear sometimes prevents feeling a hit, but if that's the case, the person in question probably isn't doing it on purpose. In fact, fuck you. If you don't like it then buy some gear and then you can have an excuse too. Because I see people all the time, even in CQB settings who aren't kitted out who don't call their hits. Sometimes it's the gear, sometimes it's the person.

I'd say as far as majorities go, you're on the wrong side. When I play at my local Indoor Facility, I get kitted out. There are obviously people there who don't, for whatever reason. But I don't flame them and they don't flame me. It's a matter of preference. If it was a game with 25 people in street clothes against me, I'd still get kitted out. Because that's a part of the experience for ME. If you disagree with that, do all of us who get involved in the experience a favor and plink in your basement. None of us are in this sport to put up with your whiny kiddy baby bullshit.

A good write-up for sure. I'm a nub btw and I think a camo bunny suit would be epic on the field.

I think that you have no right to tell anyone what to wear outside of safety gear. You want to look the same join a team, same goes for making fun of the kitted out guy.

I dunno what else to say about what you wrote dude. People to play to have fun, I dont care if someone dressed up completely at a scrim, or doesn't. But if there are requirements for a game that you need to be geared out and not rocking with a tactical maraca (Highcap if you don't get the joke) I would only hope someone would have the decency to look up to the part.

A good deal of the experience for me is the milsim aspect. I dont invest a lot into my guns just to run around with what would be best compared to a bunch of 14 year olds having an 'airsoft war' in the woods in Tshirts and Jeans.

+1

While I agree for the most part of "looking the part" for some games,guy's & gals have to start with something! Once people get a feel for the look sorta speak is how they decide on if that style of gaming is for them or not. I have alot of cash tied up in gear & guns,but sometimes I have to step back and remember from what I started out with.

Whopdie shit. I spent over $2,000 on airsoft while I was in college.. that was WHILE I was paying for my own education. It's called budgeting and knowing where your spending priorities are. 90% of the college students I know spend over $200/mo in alcohol. Cut that down by 75% and in 3 months you have a decent AEG. 3 more months and you have your BDU's and boots, and goggles.

I wouldn't expect people to spend more than they can on airsoft gear.. but seriously the "you're a snob and we can't all afford that stuff so you should let us play anyway" argument is getting rather old. Airsoft games have a set standard you should meet. If you can't, then don't play. We're not lowering our standards to accommodate people not willing to spend the money.

It's like going to a V8 muscle car show with your rusty '92 Ford Escort and bitching that they should lower the standards to let you in because not everyone can afford an LS3 powered fun machine.

To reinterate what I said in the OP -airsoft, like any other hobby, has a minimum accepted financial investment to get into. If you can't meet it, don't get involved. If you want to play t-shirt BB tag with your friends somewhere, be my guest. I really don't care. But don't tell me we should accept you at a game with an established dress code just because "you don't want to spend the money." If you can't afford it, tough. Life sucks.

As for making fun of people who actually do spend money on gear.. like I said, again in the OP, there's a reason we spend money on gear. Making fun of people who spend money on functional gear is just plain jackassery. Everyone has different tastes. I've seen guys who have 3x the gear I do because they use it all, and guys who have a 1/3 the gear because they don't actually need anymore for the way they play. I don't make fun of the 3x gear guy anymore than the 1/3 gear guy makes fun of me. In fact, I'm more likely to go talk to them and check out their rigs to see if I can get some ideas I might like for mine.

This here sums up a good chunk of my OP in simple terms.

We don't spend $$$ on airsoft gear to play tag with BBs. You don't have to milsim.. but games do have standards. If you want to play BB tag, don't play at an event.

this is the begining of my First Full Airsoft season.
I spent a lot of cash over the last year.
Im not a Student but i am a father and husband.
My car is 10 years old. I dont drink but i will smoke a little herb once and a while.

My armoury new and used cost me about 2500.00 (i have 4 m4s, 2 Aks a couple smgs and 5 pistols.. WHY?? I can only use 1 rifle and 1 pistol..
Cause the price was right..

I have BDUs brand new Woodlan ripstop. they cost me 90$ from a surplus store.
My Kit is a vest, a 3 ltr hydration, 6 dual mag pouches, 1 belt, 1 drop leg and 1 holster.
All bought used for a total of 110.
My paintball mask is 10 years old (but i bought a new lense last year -- saftey first)
si a total of 100 there
so not including my rifles, pistols, batteries and BBs..
my kit was just over $300.00

I know people who drink that on a pay day.

air soft is only as expensive as YOU make it.

I have only been involved in 2 milsim games and they were a blast,
I have been to a couple skirmishes they are a blast.

Making fun of a guy that spent 300 for his look is childish and likely based in jelousy.

Take the time to save $100.00 to hit a surplus store in your city and i bet you'll find a lot of goodies and come home with change.

if a player doesnt take the time to find his own look, then by all means play the game
but dont expect to be playing a milsim as without the proper look yuo will be playing in the parking lot. simple.

Thanks for this posting. Because of your post my first gun was an upgraded cag36c, and I am extremely happy with it.
My kids have been using the clearsoft 15$ guns and they have been having a lot of fun with those (Young kids). So they have there place in the world and help kinda get them into airsofting but if you wanna really play airsoft in a team/game setting, follow the advice of the people who have been doing it for years.

I'm 17 and making car insuraance payments I just dropped 800+ on gear and I'm atleast gona spend another 200 before I'm done. All of that and I still could afford a new AEG mags, battery and charger. It's called work, a job if you will. I don't party nearly as much as my friends do and don't eat out everyday. I spend my money on things I enjoy.

Oh ya and buy AEG I mean a pro-line CA... If I can you can!

Hey, I'm totally new to the airsoft world and I'm just gonna say thank you for that and I agree. Although some of it should be common sense, but I also know people now-a-days, lack common sense, so thank you once again.

As a still a mostly newb (only got a half decent gun last week) whose gear has to pull double duty... take my opinion with a grain of salt but just let Darwin take over. Do you have the right to tell me NOT to show up on the field, if there aren’t strict uniform/costuming rules enforced? No. If I pay my 25$ field fee and show up in shorts/t-shirt and carrying a spinger shotgun and wearing foggy glasses AND wandering around on my own like a X-Box player… just go ahead, and claim an easy kill. Several even. If I give up well then boo hoo for me.

I’ve learned there’s a definite curve to the game. The seasoned player would have spent more, sure, but there’s a learning/reflex curve and an instinct curve… and those aren’t always the same thing. Pain and discomfort are lessons the body learns. First game you show up half naked, you wander alone, you’re lit up. Second game you’re overburdened with clothing and gear, you stick to your drinking buddies, you’re lit up. Slowly, you get your comfort zone, and your gear & AEG are extensions of your body, and you stick to teammates that’ll keep you alive.

I’d say the learning curve is part of the fun; I’m having fun with it at any rate.

You show up at a field in shorts, and everyone will be aiming at your kneecaps.

Also, it's incredibly discourteous, to both the host and the other player, to show up at a game that blatantly stated the uniform requirements not wearing any of them. It's annoying for host who now has to accommodate someone who just basically gave them a big middle finger and doesn't fit into their team separations, and it's annoying for the players who wanted some semblance of uniformity among the teams and now they have an odd dude out. Some games are more lax than others, but say 'fuck you' to the host enough and you'll very quickly find yourself without games to play at.

Airsoft isn't just about you having fun -a good airsoft player considers how his attitude and deportment effects the rest of the players as well.

I’ll agree with you on the courtesy thing: follow the rules or go home. The flip side to that if the particular game that day uniform/costume & gear requirements are not specified aside from a color then snubbing the new guys won’t help the overall cause. Some guys are playing it as a sport and some as a game. I’d lay the onus on the new guys to do as much research as they can before and between games, and the old guard to do a little mentoring.

Personally I’ve never experienced or observed any snubbing, so it’s all an academic exercise to me. Most of the games have been skirmishes where I’ve been to I’ve been relegated to the terrorist/civilian/PMC side where mixed gear falls tolerated & recommended. And it works. I want to ‘earn my way’ in the milsim side of things, not just by buying my way into the game but by earning my dues in the blood & mud.

One advantage airsoft has over Facebook are the Dislike buttons. They’re called triggers. ;)

Some games have provisions for people in "civies". I've never seen an outdoor game where the uniform expectations weren't made clear. Some indoor skirmishes I've played have been pretty lax in that area.

Well, it's been a while since the last reply in this thread, so sorry for bumping it! Thanks for the read, although, I've completely agreed and known about these issues between starters/newbie and experienced/serious airsoft players.

I am a complete newb (although I've been fooling around with a crappy $50 Umarex HK USP NBB CO2 pistol) and am looking to get into airsoft seriously, and therefore as any person with common sense would, I have done months of research, reading almost every possible post on here.

I know the rules, I know the gear needed, I know what events require what, I know which brands are better, which are worse. I have a full time job and am willing to spend some dough. Although I can't see the classifieds as I'm still awaiting replies from age verifiers or looking for space in my schedule to join an event and get AV'd.

However, I must say sometimes it's been quite discouraging personally to be reading all these threads (not specifically saying this one) on airsoft canada. To me, recommending more expensive (rather, reasonably priced) products isn't an issue. But I'd like to be honest and express that I'm not feeling very comfortable because of the harsher attitudes/tones that most experienced players have. Sometimes those starting out may feel intimidated because of that, rather than the recommendation of expensive equipment. To me, that is more "elitism", where it feels like it is an elite society that we cannot get into because we are shot down - no pun intended - whatever we say or do. I'm sure that comes from having to deal with ignorant noobs all the time but still.

Not that I have ever experienced that personally, but I wince reading posts on asc alot of times. However, that doesn't change my determination or seriousness in getting into it, getting to know all of you and joining events and making new friends and comrades. I've seen so many videos online with footage from games and off the field. I talk to some serious airsofters. People are awesome out there in real life.

But hey, would it be possible to create a more welcoming atmosphere on ASC and just ignore the ignorant noobs (or just post a link to a thread with an answer) who don't read shit. (I mean i've read posts where information was repeated a billion times to different people)

I'm in no position to say this (since i just joined the site) but just getting my opinion out there as a newb and the atmosphere I feel.

Anyway, but one day I'll probably become one of those more experienced players haha!

No offense mate, but uhhh computers dont convey tone of voice. It might sometimes just be in your head.

I'd say I'm more of the moderate ones out there...

...good luck on an Internet forum buddy.

lol no worries. Just putting out that notion out there. I'm not saying everyone is like that. I'm just talking in general, even on online communities - of course we've all been in other online forums for many years - there are just nicer ways of saying things when we're not the ones being personally insulted and I'm certain most of us are actually super cool in real life and on field. When a committed newbie comes in, although it may not turn us away from airsoft (if it does then that's our loss right) but it makes ASC seem unwelcoming, when in reality it isn't. I've seen really funny and epic posts here, so why misrepresent the community to someone looking to start out? I don't think it's an elitist community. As with any hobby with passionate people, don't we want to encourage and educate newcomers. Everybody even ignorant noobs will respond better with positive culture

T7 summed it up on one of his posts early in this thread.

The vast majority of new posters on ASC come here with some preconceived notion of what airsoft is, how much it should cost, etc. etc. Most of the answers these newbs get is a blunt -not necessarily impolite- "No. This is the way it is: ____". The newb then proceeds to go off on the kind of rant that inspired my OP.

If you want to see how bad it was getting, go review some posts from 2007-2008, or earlier. I can recall one post specifically where a new member was asking where they could get an M14 for $200. Despite being consistently told that no such thing existed (an M14 in 08 was running around $600+), said member and some other newbies who came out of the woodwork proceeded to call us elitist assholes because we wouldn't recommend to them a cheap M14 (which didn't exist). A lot of older members have gone through this over and over and over and over. Heck, I've only been here 5 years and I remember this stuff, how do you think guys who have been at this for 10+ feel? Could we just ignore the thread? Sure, but honestly if someone takes the time to write a decent question, I don't really have an issue taking some time to answer it. It's not my fault they get hissy when they get an answer they don't like.

Likewise, I remember another post where a newbie was arguing that they had the right to come out to a game in a t-shirt without bothering to wear BDUs because they didn't have the money to drop on them. They were arguing that we should be lowering our standards to allow them into games because they couldn't afford the kit. People like that have absolutely zero concept that they're playing a team game, and frankly, we don't want people like that in the game. So yea, they will get a rather hostile reception.

There's a nice little saying I like: My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who YOU are.

There are a lot of examples of new guys coming and asking good questions and getting good answers. Where they run into issues is failing to realize the ASC community is very intolerant of laziness, immaturity, and stupidity. A few days spent browsing and searching the forum would tell them this.

There's also another thing I should point out: ASC isn't airsoft in Canada. It's the ASC forum community, nothing more, nothing less. Our #1 advice to people has ALWAYS been to go to a game and meet people face to face. Again, for some reasons, a lot of newbies don't seem to like that answer. And again, too bad, not our problem.

Newbs don't read. Simple as that. There are TONS of threads where people post links to answers.

Stick around for a couple of months and you'll be fine.

+1
Unfortunately newbies are quick shoot down any advice that is different than what they want to believe, that is why most of the older player here rather give advice and tips on the field over the computer and when the tolerance level for nub ignorance went down that is when the famous ASC hate machine comes out, followed by Drake's famous ban hammer, which i find very entertaining. want a good laugh just go to the trash bin plenty of facepalm threads.

lol okay, fair enough, for those who don't read, or are underaged! then, what can we say. I just was getting the feeling that it's for any starting out.

Well, cheers, and looking forward to getting into the combat zone and some holes put in me >:)

It's not that we don't like newbies. I actually rather enjoy teaming up with new players at games. They're usually quite motivated with a good attitude. But those newbies also tend to ask informed questions.

You can really tell when someone takes some time to research by the question they asked. Someone who's informed will be able to ask the type of question that will lead to the answer they require. Even if it does seem like a more basic question, which honestly most of us don't mind answering. For example, someone asking "Hey guys this part is broken, I think it's the tappet plate. This is a V2 mechbox right? How do I fix it?" vs. "hey guys my gun won't shoot I don't know what type of mechbox it has halp!!11!!!11"

Big, big difference. And the only thing that's really different effort wise is 20 minutes on Google.

For example, a search of "TM M16 cycles but won't shoot BBs" and 20 minutes of reading will inform you of 3 things: The M16 has a V2 mechbox, the problem is nozzle/tappet plate/hop-up, or your mags aren't feeding properly. Another 10 minutes will tell you how to diagnose those. Then you can come here and say "Hey guys, my M16 won't shoot. It cycles and I've eliminated the following _____. I think this is the problem ____. Advice?"

I don't know a single person on ASC who'd give that question a snarky, sarcastic, or douchebag answer. If the problem is more specific or "special", then we start troubleshooting and everyone involved might learn something. THAT is the way a forum should be used.

Speaking of Drake, who can forget the now iconic Troll Crusher 1-1?

Regardless of what community one tries to enter.. at first you will be an outsider, you will lack the knowledge and language to be welcomed.

Breaking into the community IS daunting.. you will feel like everyone on the inside is trying to keep you out.

The mistake is to try to make your entry here on a forum.. this place is NOT the airsoft community.. this is simply a clearing house for information and communication.

The community exists at games and events .. that is where you will be welcomed as a new player, where people will help you and break their backs to see you get a good start. It is also where you can prove your interest , and commitment.

You can type a thousand words on a forum.. it means nothing.. you're still just some NOOB who says he wants to get involved.

Show up at a few games.. and meet some people in person and you will be "in" practically instantly.

I know the rules, I know the gear needed, I know what events require what, I know which brands are better, which are worse. I have a full time job and am willing to spend some dough. Although I can't see the classifieds as I'm still awaiting replies from age verifiers or looking for space in my schedule to join an event and get AV'd.

Thank you Brian!

I've been to two games. One was a 'vets' game. The other a 'high school group' game. Had no idea or I may not of gone.

I've already spent close to $1400 on equipment. You wouldn't know it cuz I show up with the box the gun was bought in.

This is a fantastic sport. Like every sport there are those who have that 'jock' attitude and those who are actual real humans who just love the sport and want to help on occasion. I'll take the advice from those who just want to help.

I'm sure there are lots of 'newbs' who are like some of you are saying. But that is like saying all Russian immigrants are criminals. It's sadly and grossly wrong. Period.

From my POV - I show up at a CQB event at adrenaline paintball, my first game ever, not knowing what to expect, not knowing a single person, feeling a little socially uncomfortable to start with, get shoved around a bit, shot at too close a range more than once with mercy rule in effect (within 5-10 feet - those shotguns really hurt), shot multiple times after yelling 'HIT' and holding up my weapon, shot point blank in the face in the 'safe zone' and got zapped more than once on full auto in a semi auto only environment.

This was 'vets' night, not the 'highschool' night. Highschool night was actually a little more fun, more laid back, though I am almost 2x the age of the players that night and really didn't enjoy the quality of the gaming, but at least I got to try my new gun site out.

So, ya, some of you vets, your just so awesome. Thanks for the warm welcome. Good thing I'm NOT taking the example laid out for me as the way this sport works in general. And shame on you for the shoddy treatment of a new player, who is doing his time to figure this shit out.

I've already learned how to swap springs, change hop ups and barrels, modify the guns in general and proper care. I'd probably have a vest as well but thought full face protection a better buy with funds draining due to buying what are supposed to be quality guns. Before the vest I'll be buying boots. So ya, next week, when I show up again on Vet's night, I'll be the guy in the hoody and jeans with full face and boots.

Shake your heads at me if you like.

Or better yet, try shaking my hand.

Well If I was you I wouldn't have bought 2 guns before the vest. But thats just cause I like having somewhere to put my shit. Having 2 guns is a bonus cause if one goes down the other is a back up. Pick up a Double rifle case ASAP though, they are a crazy useful.

Thanks Cobalt!

I was told these things break down, just a fact of the game, so I took that to heart knowing anything with moving parts will eventually break. I also looked hard into learning the internals and how it all works together, so if something does happen I am ready with tools on hand to get it repaired or at the very least diagnosed ASAP so I can get back on the field :)

Loving the KA M4, metal internals as well externals - great value and thanks to all those who pushed me in that direction. :)

nobody should feel bad about being new. I know some guys that have been playing regularly for over 4 years, they're still noobs lol

Sounds like you've taken a good step forward. If your serious about doing your own maintenance, upgrades, etc; find an experienced gun doc to show you the finer points of quality, shimming, etc. Do yourself a favor, and buy "quality" gear. "Buy cheap, buy twice"; is a good ol' ASC moto. Sometimes it's buy three, four times.

Sorry to hear your first "serious" game didn't go smooth. It is a sport where mistakes do get made, by everyone. And you numb yourself to BB hits over time. Except knuckles, ears, nose, etc.

Great advice, thanks! Ya by the end of the day it was more of a 'here we go again' type feeling when the full auto or cheap shots came raining down.

BUT, I know that the place I went too isn't really the best representation of the sport, by far, they even sold me a used charger that is now not working after only charging 2 batteries. 7.4 Lipos. So, I will go back again to test some things I've changed out, but really I'm looking for a team of mature players who milsim a bit and are willing to take on a non-military background individual who just wants to get in and get dirty.

First time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose.
The Second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk.
The third time someone calls you a horse...well, then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle.

lol, just kidding, I love that quote though. You're not elitist Kalnaren. I never found that and I'm new.

There are some elitist people, but that's got nothing to do with airsoft. In every group there's always at least one asshole, and if you can't find him then it's probably you! It' just how group dynamics work. You have all sorts of personalities no matter where you go; learning how to handle yourself and those personalities around you is really all a person can do.

Water off a duck's back is what I say. Nobody can hate me as much as myself, lol.

Elitist <--> Newb... everything seems to get 'equalized' in the field to a certain degree. The guy with the loud mouth on ASC seems to 'zip it up' when face-to-face and the newb seems to be a little less of a newb than they may have thought. I'm generalizing a bit... but the bottom line is, are you enjoying the sport and being respectful? You win. The community wins!

Here is my opinion on the "elitist" and "noob" rant. Please understand that this in my opinion on this and I am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours.

Quite honestly, I believe there are conditions to both terms. You could be just entering the sport or have 10+ years into it or even be a retailer and still be a "noob." How is that possible, you ask. Well, here's my theory.....No matter how much experience you have in something, as long as you are still learning and evolving in that area you are a "noob." If your learning has stopped and your evolution in the are has become stagnant you have become an "elitist." Nothing derogatory about either side, at least from me. Personally, I'd much rather be a "noob" with X years experience and continue to learn about everything that's new and exciting. And should you look down on me because I classify myself as a "noob", so be it that is your entitled opinion. At least i can hold my head up and proudly say yes I am!

Take this for what you will, like I said it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The question is can you put as much value in my opinion as I can put in yours. I think, ultimately, thats what this thread is boiling down to and it would seem that some have lost sight of that.

Actually, it would seem that you're mixing terminology. No idea how old you are.. maybe it's because I'm a young guy who grew up in the 90's with Internet gaming (well, for at least half of it) that I can very much make the distinction between "n00b", "newbie", "experienced", and "elitist". What you describe aren't n00bs and elitists. They're newbies and experienced. Big, big difference.

I don't want this to turn into a semantics/grammar/terminology war, but you did kind of miss the point of my OP.

An experienced player isn't an elitist. An elitist is someone who thinks they're better, or something they use is better, because of some arbitrary value assigned to it (usually monetary, but not always). Because of that many new players associate expensive gear with an elitist attitude and ignore real world experience.

You can draw a parallel in academia. In this example, the arbitrary value assigned is usually based on the perceived value of an academic argument rather than real world experience.

So, well I'd never say your opinion is invalid, you did miss the point.

Kalnaren is doing a favor, he could just tell you to buy shit and then you start crying when your shit fails in your first game. He doesn't suggest top of the line kit but will steer you clear away from bottom of the barrel junk. I can't ever remember him ever advising any beginning to get a PTW or anything else outrageously expensive.