Bingo.

Yeah there's room for an 8.4 Large in there but a 9.6 Large is no way.

If you want a very cost effective aeg, more efficient than how it feels, so buy a china airgun and change the internals with upgraded parts. It will cost less than buying a stock TM (in many cases). Experience in upgrading internals are recommended

But if you prefer better feeling like metal body and heavy weight, but more expensive, buying an stock CA or ICS is the way to go (in many cases).

I've bought a near new CYMA MP5J for 300$ shipped and I've changed nearly every internals and finally the MP5 would cost me 450$ shipping included and it shoots 350 fps with .20g with an amazing ROF along with a 8.4v 3500mah large. In my opinion, this MP5 is better than a NIB stock TM, for less.

it depends on opinions, every people is different, so needs are different

Gotta agree with splashx. Got a metal jg mp5ras for $175, threw in $100 worth of parts and it's awesome. Runs beautifully, looks great. Under $300.

Of course any chinasoft gun is going to be better than a TM if you upgrade the internals, because your replacing everything that make the internals crap.
It's like buying a junk car and replacing all your driving components. Drives just like a stock car, performs just as well, but it's still a piece of crap on the outside lol
And thus: Buy TM if you want a reliable, cheap gun (because you don't need to buy any internals), but if your going to upgrade your gun once you get it anyway, buy a CA or G&P because your really only buying it for the body.

I just purchased an Army Armament R85, which is an improved clone of the G&G L85A1. The entire gun save the fore/pistol grips is made of steel, and the buttpad is a soft, very comfortable rubber. For < $100 I can make this thing a better airsoft gun than the G&G one, for $400 less ($600 less than the STAR). Honestly, the only thing it's missing is authentic trades.

Honestly thats not saying much lol
G&G is crap inside and out, the only reason I consider them a major airsoft company is because of their popularity.

really
well my g&g ump was fucking fantastic
i put less upgrades in that and ran just as many rounds through it than i did any of the mauri guns i've owned

the only issue it had was double feeding, quick tappet plate fix and we're flying

Well, my point still stands. Yea, G&G guns (especially the L85) are known for thier cascading failures. But this is a China clone with awsome externals (by far better than ANY TM, and heavier material than the few ICS guns I've held. Like I said, it's steel, not pot metel or zinc alloy), and decent internals. And for a small amount more, it can be a gun with awsome externals and awsome internals for still cheaper than any full metel 'brand-name' AEG on the market. Granted, next to the A&K M249, it's also the most expensive china clone...

In Hong Kong, I can buy an Army R85 and have the shopkeepers strip, clean, reshim and slap it back together for $100 Canadian (I was quite tempted to, as well, but shipping would be insane as to the weight). The markup here's just ridiculous, as it's a full metal gun with a small market for it.

I agree, the markup for it is nearly 5x. But it's still < half the STAR and a good deal cheaper than the crappier G&G. But show me a single china gun in canada that isn't insainly marked up. Hell, look at the JG G36... $400 on A&A for a gun that retails for <$100 elsware. I couldn't find the FN2000 on his site, but I know when he had it it retailed for something like 7x what it would cost in the US. For me personally, paying the 5x markup on the L85 was worth it. If the gun was plastic, not a chance.

Indeed. Even in HK, the STAR was ridiculously expensive, get the local players swore by the G&G. I think I'll get one when I go back, to be honest.
It's a fantastic deal, even with a complete overhaul of the mechbox (even one that completely doubles its price) it's still $200- and if you had the permits, you could bring one into the country for not too much more (known from experience, the profit you could make is ludicrous). They're fantastic guns, and they feel far better then anything else I've ever used- coming from a guy that played with a full-metal M60 and a VFC BAR.
If I had the choice between the 3 L85s, I'd definitely go that route. ARMY all the way, I suppose.

The china guns don't usually need many new parts. I could have run it a long time stock but I did a durability upgrade. Spring guide, cylinder, bushings, titanium tooth piston and better head. Kept the gears, cylinder head, nozzle, tappet, spring. The grease is shitty and comes in gobs.
A new marui mp5 doing 360fps would cost around$600. I did it for about half and I have a full metal body, battery, hicap, scope mount and flash hider.
Can't beat that.

I constantly hear people say that their chinasoft/clones are just as good if not better than Marui or CA. This is false. The first AEG's I gamed with were Marui and whenever I used them they just felt smooth. Then I bought my first AEG, a JG G36c. While it was a good gun for the money, it really wasnt nearly as good as the Maruis I had used, when firing it just felt...different. A very common argument that I encounter is "Its got CA Gears, or a Marui Clone Gearbox". Exactly, its that companies copy, the design is the same, but not the quality. Sure JG makes a solid product but it honestly doesnt stand near Marui. I now own G&P and have to say that I couldnt wait to get off the clone. I love the g36 because it was my first AEG and it hasnt really broken down, but It cant come close to the quality of TM, CA etc. I bought the G&P about 4-5 months after the JG and the only temptation to go back would be JG's new 416.

Bottom line is that if you want reliablility and the best possible experience accept the facts: Airsoft isnt cheap, and that is an inevitablity. China guns fill a purpose but in the end better quality is what you want for the long run.

I think the point a lot of people make and a lot of people don't get with regard to a China gun is this:

As a stock gun, they are no where near a TM or CA or G&P or whatever for quality.

As an upgrade platform, you can't go wrong with a China gun.

However, once upgraded it's no longer a China gun anymore than a fully upgraded TM gun is a TM gun. Honestly if one buys a TM and replaces pretty much everything that I think it's pointless not to buy the much cheaper China gun. By the time you're done upgrading perfomance and reliability will be similar. However, if your one of those people who do almost no upgrades and like stock guns, then I would go for a TM or CA over a China gun anyday.