For all the joking I do about giving one away and going with G&P, PTW's are beauties. I can't justify the money it costs to get into it, that certainly doesn't make them bad.

I'd have to say the biggest drawback is that they tend to be for the more "mechanically inclined" players. There's so much that could go wrong with any AEG, when it goes wrong with a systema, however rare that may be, you usually need a much more trained hand than with a lower end AEG because of how foreign their design is. Not a reason to avoid it, but definitely a con.

I'd have one if I could afford it, but I can't so I'm perfectly happy with my G&P which shoots really far and has a good fps.

For the simple fact of I don't have much experience taking apart anything else I don't take the PTW design as a con. In fact I would be very nervous to take my ICS apart for a lack of experience. My ICS was built by someone else. I have had my PTW apart and back together a few times now and I find the design very easy to work with. I guess it comes down to experience. Our team has a PTW kit that consists enough spare parts to rebuild a gun from the ground up except the body parts so if anything goes wrong we all have enough basic common sense on how to fix something which sometimes means, trying good known parts but it works for us. In fact that is how I repaired my PTW just 2 weeks ago when the motor went.

Kos not trying to start a fight or anything I am just wondering how a PTW can help develop better trigger control over an AEG????

Because ever time you pull the trigger, it depreciates in value ;)

Buwahahahaha:D

I like my PTW, but I can tell you honestly that if I had to choose what to use in a game, I'll take my VFC 416 over my PTW without question.

The PTW is a great gun, but I honestly can't say its worth the price. Yes, the internals are great, and yes, the battery and cylinder system are excellent, but the hopup system is nothing special, and the metal used in the receiver is less quality then what you would expect.

Aftermarket tightbore, modified hop up and CNC anodized high grade aluminum aftermarket lowers (and soon uppers) of all flavors. More money to burn yeah!! :D

I have a PTW, I like my PTW, I didn't have to sell my soul to buy the PTW, end of story.

Goes down in the rain, yup, that sucks. Thats all I really have to say, people rag on this to no end and really, it makes you look like an idiot.

Where are people buying batteries that they cost $120? I bought one for $100, official SystemA 9.6V battery, cash, no taxes.

@macgyver
its rare for a challenge kit to work right? Well then I guess the 3 I built don't count, and the countless others I know of who built kits and have had zero problems (other than rain.)

I can outrange any AEG I have ever been up against (pretty much every brand and every gun shooting up to and including 400fps) except a TM M14. End of story, if someone you where against had a PTW that didn't do that, there is something wrong with it (challenge kit problems?)

I remember when a bone stock G&P M4A1 was $1900, and is was so totally worth it and everyone wanted one, back then PTW's where around $3k. Now that a PTW has come down to what a G&P used to cost, its overpriced? If you don't know shit and have been playing airsoft for less than a year, just don't talk.

Everything has its pros and cons, generally what I find with my PTW is "I can outrange anyone but a sniper but if it rains I'm fucked" and to me with how few games I play in the rain, and the fact that my PTW never goes down except for rain (I had a bad string of about 10-15 AEG's in a row and not a one of them would last an entire game) its worth every penny (at the current price, I bought mine when they where more expensive and I considered it break even.)

how many rain issues are some of you having? I played with my ptw through the winter here in Victoria and we played in some pretty rainny games and never had an issue until just recently at a milsim I had a hick up where it only shot burst and no semi. Even with the switch on semi it shot burst. not really a bad thing I guess.

Bottom line if you want it buy it. If not buy something else. Problem solved.

About 2 out of 3 rain games the trigger shorts and it thinks the trigger is always pressed. I've played in about 3 rain games :)

james, what you describe seems to be the common rain issue - something to do with the selector. Mind you at Wolfpack Primary over May 2-4 there were several of us out in the rain (it was heavier than a drizzle but could only be described as "light") in the open with no tree cover for a good couple of hours before the game even started.

There's lot of kits out west, and a great many have suffered failures, for a nuimber of reasons. They outnumber factory assembled probably 3 or 4 to 1, and it's rare that I've come across the factory assembled ones that have failed. If you saw the numbers of PMs I've gotten from guys looking to fix issues with the kits, well, you'd understand why I have recommended for the last year to not buy them. Just on PTWs alones, I'll bet over 1,000 in the past year, but probably more than that. The kits were so bad, that many retailers in the U.S. and Europe refused to sell them. Then, the PTW became popular, and kits were all that was available.

Like I've said before, it's not all the parts quality (which does seem to vary), but also the skill of the assembler. But there's a reason the kit is less money than the assembled gun, and it only isn't in labour, especially where Gen 3 kits are concerned.

I find putting a little grease around the rim of upper receiver where it mates with the lower on rainy days keeps the water out, never had a failure in the rain.

yeah i figured it was, I just find it odd to hear about so many water issues cause besides that 1 day I described above I have nor anyone on our team (6 ptws in total I think) had any issues with water and we played in atleast 5 very heavy rain days this past winter not to mention the regular rain/fog we get here in Victoria every winter.

Although thinking about it a bit, the day my gun had the issue, i did have my gun resting up against a car for about an hour before we started to play so maybe some water made its way in there then. Either way, I am not concerned about it, I dried the gun out and everything is good.
And in terms of SCK vs factory built. I bought an SCK and I had issues and I was one of the many pms Mcguyver got. I wouldn't go SCK again, it ended up costing me more to put it together in the end then if I just bought the built unit.