Trade dispute with dutch13
 

Hey guys and gals of ASC I’m in a situation which needs some advising, back in December of last year dutch13 or known as James Ferriera bought my Classic Army SL-8 as shown in the post below.

Please before anyone makes a comment, please read the entire post, thanks 


http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=94988




The Situation:

The sale of a CA SL8 was completed and shipped out early this year. However but in mid-march, James claimed that his “top tech” verified the gearbox and front grip are JG. I was amazed as the claims as I bought the gun new 2-3 years back. I am a full time student and at the time I had the flu but I still agree to look into it.



I look into the claims and two days later I get this obscure email, and I reply:

What I don’t understand is if why he would not just order one off his studio’s BFL carrier, if they didn’t have a BFL, would the purchase of a replica firearm be illegal for a studio?

After this conversation we agree to trade back the SL-8 for by new KSC G23F plus some freebies. The KSC G23F can be seen in this ad.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=99172

I give him my mobile number and we talked. I recommend him I will ship the gun with the slide installed in a few days because he told me he lacked technical knowledge of airsoft guns, and that the auto glock platforms have a harder degree of difficulty for slide installation requiring the use of specific tools.

During the phone conversation I coaxed to ship the KSC G23F to him the next day, apologizing how he acted as I was still ill, how I was only a student, that he would ship the SL-8 back as soon as possible and also he stated he had a scrim to attend. On Sunday I leave from Toronto to Hamilton for school and bring along my Glock to have it shipped the next day. Problem was that I forgot to bring the bag with some of the freebies and the metal slide. I explain this to him and he says it is fine, ship the slide later on, and sends me $40 for Priority shipping via CP. I describe to James that the G23F’s slide needs to be pulled back and then selected or it won’t fire will break if forced and he gives me a reply.

By this time I was surprised by his lack of knowledge and started to regret shipping him the gun without installing the slide.

I only shipped the G23F out because I was under the assumption that he would ship me the SL8. Before I rushed it out, I do a 1 (10-20 BBs) magazine test on semi to make sure it was working, and I send it out. My two roommates witnessed this and complained about the noise as well.

I send him the tracking number 20 minutes after I dropped it off at the post office and I receive a call from James within the hour.
“Yo, the tracking number you gave me doesn’t work” he states. I describe to him, CanadaPost takes some time to have the item catalogued into their system, don’t be surprised if it shows up before the tracking does.

I never received a reply to my inquiry on the status of the SL-8.

The G23F arrives to him next day but he claims it does not shoot at all and spews gas all over the place, but also states clearly he did not fire it at all. This was very confusing and conflicting. I help him trouble-shoot problems and found it was the combination of auto-firing with propane and the plastic barrel.

After this conversation, James tinkers with the Glock and gets it to work in semi-automatic

I prepare to ship out the slide but was recommended not to as he did not send any proof of the SL8 having JG internals, or the glock having problems. I waited a week for the SL8 but nothing came, I asked him and told me he will only ship it when he gets a working auto-glock.


So I'm thinking to myself, what the fuck?

He has both guns and he is not willing to ship the SL8 back. I was very accommodating trying to compensate him to the best of my ability and in the end, he holds the SL-8 hostage.

You don’t walk into a store asking for an exchange without the item in question in hand to return.


Then communication cease ... I am trying my best accommodate him but lack of trust seems to be the issue here.

His lack of technical knowledge is stopping me from sending the slide to him to install himself as he stated he never touched a mechbox. He might or might not screw something up and end up keeping all items. He gives me no assurances that he will ship the item back and his attitude does not help. His conflicting stories regarding studio work and not firing the glock even once but finds out it is broken troubles me.

I'm very hesitant to ship anymore things as I'm not getting any proof of claims or the SL8 or the Glock, I asked him to provide some pictures but provided nothing. He gas both the CA SL-8 and the new KSC G23F, and I have only the amount for the SL-8.


Here are James last words....

This guy from Winnipeg?

If so, I'm willing to go and check on the glock as well as the G36 and help get everything solved.

Sounds like a good idea.

+1

If you can get some trusted local players in his area, preferably Age Verifiers or local community administrators to check on your guns I would suggest it before he damages them more. If they run into trouble get the authorities involved.

<--------------------

<-------V

Yeah, need someone else to be with you.. You know, just in case :P

Good idea there Tom

Well enough with all of this
To begin with my buddy came on here with me, because he was not age verified yet and wanted an AEG.
I brought my buddy on here to purchase the gun for his birthday. He found the gun that he liked and bought it from Qlong. He had issues with it right from the get go. So he took it in to a very reputable gun tech in which he told him that the gun had substandard internals. Meanwhile he had thought that this gun was of complete CA parts and found out that it was all lower standard JG. So he contacted him about the issue in which Qlong told him that he would send him an automatic G23 with a metal slide. So he sent him the G23 without the metal slide in which my friend told him that he would wait to send him the sl8 until he sent him the slide, just to cover his own ass considering he paid 500 for the sl8 and an auto G23 is not worth that at all. So from my understanding the deal went sour and now my name is being slandered all over these forums, even though the deal went on outside of ASC because he did not want to use my account. He has read everything that is on here, and is more than willing to send the SL8 back, but wants the slide he was promised.
To be honest, this deal was made outside of ASC and should be kept outside ASC. All parties should man up and deal with it.
Qlong, contact him, you have his email as well as his phone number.
All my trader feedback has been nothing but positive on here, and no one stole anything, it's been a miscommunication and it needs to be resolved. He, himself has been calling me everyday wondering what he should do. He feels himself that he has been burned.
If you don't want to believe than that's fine, but i've been nothing but faithful to this community and am willing to do anything for it.
So the two parties should contact each other and figure this out, slandering my name all over this website won't help.
Thanks very much for reading
Lee McCaw

I thought he bought it for "theatrical" purposes?

Quoted so he can't change anything.

Accountability is important, frankly using ASC, a community forum as a weapon to threaten members is unacceptable. You want this resolved, pick up the phone and call your friend and walk him to the post office and have him send back the SL8. Once it arrives Im sure Q will send the slide.

Otherwise take your medicine and swallow it because, if half the shit that your pal spewed is accurate then Q has every right to want to expose this transaction to the community.

It doesn't matter if it was you, or your buddy, the account holder is responsible.

I'm sitting here right now with him, and maybe he worded things wrongly but he feels he was burned just as much as Qlong. To be honest with you, if Qlong wants to contact me I'm more than welcome to talk to him. I will be the middle man here and if he wants anything shipped back I will work it out.
I don't believe I should be the one here getting hammered down on. I tried getting another person into the sport, that's all I tried to do. And now my name is getting thrown around like a piece of shit.

WTF!!!

you are basically ransoming the SL8 from Q and your last msg to him saying you were "even now because you got 2 crappy guns" is fucking bullshit

*edit*

and you're a fucking liar for sayiing you bought it for theatrical purposes, and then talking all that smack about being in the film industry etc.

1. April Fool's is over so pay attention cuz I'm serious (and work-related pissed right from the start)

2. If you aren't directly involved in this deal you can stop posting on this thread. Exception to Amos because he can help out and Rugger_Can cuz he had the best reply.

3. ducth13, congratulations, you successfully circumvented the AV system by giving a non-AV'd person access to the classifieds. That's grounds for permanently losing your AV status right off the bat. Your name is now involved and "slandered" because you got the ball rolling in the first place. I strongly advise you to make yourself small and overly accommodating cuz your name is on this transaction.

4. Whoever has the SL8 (Dutch13 or Dutch's friend or Clint Eastwood, I don't give a fuck) comes across as a douche. He needs to send the guns back (and maybe explore the wonderful world of paintball). If he's genuinely worried he'll get ripped off, maybe Amos would be willing to act as an escrow (dude?).


edit

There's also claims some ASC staff was involved. AFAIK no staff was contacted, so I'd like some names. I also want that gun tech to come on record on this thread (no I'm not chasing him down, he comes to me, here).


2nd edit

Qlong, would like to hear your proposed solution to this. Full refund and return to status quo? Complete the agreed upon transaction (return SL8 and you send slide and stuff)?

I am now too looking into this issue....

Couple of things wrong in this whole thread.

1) Everyone who has no business in this sale should have shut the fuck up ans stayed out of it.

2) Qlong should have received an SL8 back in the mail, not having it being held ransom. He did offer a refund, which was turned down in exchange for a KSC G23f, which unless all of a sudden they've become cheap is a $350 gun last time I bought one.

3) dutch13 you allowed a non age verified member access to the buy/sell forums when Winnipeg has one of the largest pools of Verifiers in the west. This is against the rules, your own verification is now under review.

4) Once this is solved and straightened out, someones going to get a kicking.

As Drake said I only want to see the parties involved, staff or Amos who has been asked to check into this for the staff in here. Anyone else may face the wrath of my temp ban hammer.

To be honest, I never tried to get around the Age Verifying. The reason why I did it was he saw the sl8, and wanted it. I sent the msg on my own behalf and the deal pursued on after that via email and telephone.
I don't want to be kicked off here. I'm on everyday, sometimes a few times a day. I realize that what I did was against the rules, but I just wanted a friend to enjoy the sport.
If it comes down to myself being dismissed than by all means do so, but this is the first and only time that this is ever happened. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that has ever done this, just this time, attention was attracted to it.
He is more than willing to send it back to him. He just feels that he was getting burned.

QLong Vs Dutch 13 Trade Issue
 

Hey there, I'm going to start off by saying that dutch13 IS NOT A THIEF

I also want to make it clear that I am not taking sides on this, Today was the first time I've met James and I'm not pulling any "root for the home team" bullshit.

Dutch13's name is Lee, he helped his friend James get a SL8 and try to deal with the problems that came up in the transaction. Dutch13 did not let James use his account, he was simply trying to help a friend out because Jaime couldn't get in contact with a Winnipeg verifier (he didn't try me)

Dutch13 should not be penalized for helping his 18+ buddy get a gun (If the admins require proof of age, I've got a photo of James' ID)

To clarify, the issue is between Qlong and James.

As of right now I have both guns in my possession, I've looked them both over and James was correct, the "CA SL8" is a CA body and CA SL8 kit on JG parts. The G23F that was sent as a "replacement" is screwed, it was shipped in a manor that it it was not a functional gun.

This entire thing has been one misunderstanding knee-jerk reaction after another.

I wont go into all the nitty gritty details, I want to cut out all the bullshit and come to a solution

But what I think would be a fair solution to everything is have Qlong refund Jame's money through me (James has agreed to subtract $50 because parts of the guns were painted silver for theatrical purposes, I've taken a look.. it could easily be removed with 20 minutes and some fine steel wool) then I'll ship him back his guns.

James is also throwing in a few extra mags, a battery and a grip-pod that he purchased. He is very keen on the idea of coming to a happy medium in all of this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCF1297.jpg
(SL8, The silver was done for "theatric pictures" and will come off very easily, James has agreed to subtract $50 from what he paid)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCF1299.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCF1302.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCF1304.jpg
None of this is even remotely CA... It's all JG stuff. I do however believe that Qlong didn't know this. Qlong isn't at fault for this, the person who Qlong purchased the gun from who claimed it was a CA is. It's a JG in a CA body kit.

Amos, thank you for your time and willingness to help out on this. Much appreciated.

As with the other thread, anyone not Amos, staff or directly involved in this matter please refrain from posting.

I'd like to hear what Qlong has to say about this now.

im the said theif
 

hello im James the fellow who was in possetion of the guns.

First i want to give a huge thanks to Amos for comming over to spend his afternoon prooving that entire litter of trash talk wrong. Im not a douche i was in a situation that i felt was burning me and now its confirmed for all of you to see.

Second beyond the dispute between q long and i i would really like to express my feelings on the members and additude of the members when they see a " danzel in distress" you all came roaring out with your picks and torches and you didnt even listen to a word that was said otherwise. You called names, made threats, and based your opinions on god knows what.
this proof was all i needed and in no way was what i did to control the situation the wrong thing to do.

bar none dont call me a liar and dont base your opinions on how i type in msn and e mails ( i am deslexic and i dont know im spelling wrong half the time) you dont know who i am and you certainly do not have the right to act the way you did on this forum. i know people like you wont let this sink in but i hope you sit back and take some time to realise that you do not have the right to witch hunt let alone witch hunt without the full two sides of a story, i mean common your adults here.

anyway i hope this gets resolved coz im done babysitting.

Since no one at large can reply on this thread, I will.

I believe a large part of the flak you took from the members stems directly from your attitude: no one is impressed by stuff like "I got my lawyer involved, this is how I do business" and "I'm not a dumb hick like the rest of the forum users, I know my rights." No one on here knows you from a chewed wad of gum on the pavement, and when that's the first impression they get from you it's not a great way to attract sympathy.

Likewise, your above post doesn't do a whole lot to cast you in a good light, and its overall tone will leave most people feeling they were right about you. It doesn't mean you were wrong, just that you don't come across as the friendliest kinda bloke.

So a bit of friendly advice from someone who knows this forum a lot better than you: regardless how righteous you are, or think you are, you're digging a hole for yourself right now. Unless you just created that account to post this, you should probably stop.

Hey Drake

Qlong hit me up for advice on the situation before this thread was created.
Here is what I told him verbatim.

cleaned.

Hi guys, I apologize that I assumed Lee's account, dutch13 was James, an honest mistake. However I would like to thank Amos for stepping in acting as the middleman in this situation.

This issue is currently being resolved, I will be refunding James the amount asked for + shipping costs.

Cheers
Lon

hey q
i want to say sorry big time i was just trying to make sure everything was on the up and up. i think we have both learned a wikked ass lesson here and speaking for myself i am a douche bag regarding my reaction to what i thought was a rip off on its way.

on that same note i now know how the miscommunication happened and i also now know that the big picture here was that q long did infact get screwed but by whom ever sold him this array of bullshit guns. that being said i offer my hand in any way possible to help track down the individual who did this to long.

i had no intention of screwing q over but i do understand how the rest of you would think so , so in that light i appologise to all of you.

and just to answer some questions about Twisted by design scare studios.......well i am a small prop fabricator based out of winnipeg where i do set design, halloween still props, and special effects for small jobs here and there. as per why i needed the sl8 ? my partner and i are building airsoft tested halo armor and other movie armourment and we needed th sl8 for the photoshoot we sent to the bungie corp. for licencing and permission to use the halo designs. the sl8 was the closest we could find to the halo br . we are also in the midst of getting our prop masters in order to obtain the bfl so we can supply our mother studio Absurd Machine Studios.

all this has been prooven and verifyed by Amos when he came by my home to sort all of this out.

sorry Q
james ferreira

Update: I've received James' Money in full from Qlong,

I'll be repairing the broken wires (free of charge) and shipping everything back to him.

Sooo... I think that calls it dispute over. Can Dutch13 have his verification back yet?

Hey Amos
Thanks for everything, for your quick response and all. Saw you at XT last night, was gonna say hello and actually introduce myself, but you were busy talking to my bro about the gbbr.
Happy Easter and Thanks again!
Lee

AV reinstated, I'm VERY glad to see this ended in a good way. Cudos for you Amos for your aid in this issue and thank you to all parties for taking a breath and getting it done.

Communication is key, but not jumping the gun and making assumptions is also.

Happy Easter all.