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Play style of a SAW.
Hey there,
My buddy and I are planning on getting two saw for some skimish/simple battle. My question is, what kind of play style do saw user see?... Like for example, I read some stuff about sniper's play style, it's fill with crawling on all 4, through mud, sometime worse... Just give me a piece of your mind. Looking forward in hearing from you all! |
SAW.. you mean the SAW Machine gun?
I think pretty much any gun can be a sniper in airsoft, since there's not much recoil, and with a bi-pod and scope u can do pretty well. But it would be kinda silly to snipe with a Machine gun. :) But then again I have thoughts about building a UMP sniper version... hahah.. :) That's why airsoft is fun I guess, you can build and play it how u like. Just my 2 cents. |
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HAHAHAHAHAHa |
Supressing fire.
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Very helpful....?...?...
Still looking for more tips :) |
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And SAW gunners usually fill the squad support role, they provide covering fire to allow the rest of the squad to maneuver safely. Usually you will be following a squad and expending a fair bit of bb's. Be warned SAW gunners can blow alot of money on ammo and frankly the start up cost for the actual AEG's in terms of those types of airsoft are higher (sometimes topping a grand just for the aeg). Good luck and I hope this helps. Ps. I suggest you hit up a local game and see what its all about and get age verified. Cheers. |
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I've been playing for about a good 8 months now, and been to 2 big outdoor game(80+ players), 4 small game(30-40 players) and yet I've only had a glimpse of 1 saw... But thanks anyways... |
They are not much fun to carry all day.
If no one around has one you don't really need one. If you're facing another team with SAWs thouigh they sure are handy to have. |
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And tell him to start working out, well... those sissy CA249 don't weigh any more than my M4, but my G&P 249 is a beast! You need to work out to carry it all day. And I applaud anyone with a 15kg M60, those guys are hardcore....assuming they use it lol |
Carrying it isn't going to be much of an issue, I consider it as working out :)
I know Ammo will be costly, but considering how much I shoot, I don't think it'll make much difference. Beside, I'm not planning on using high quality bbs. Here's what I don't like to do, maybe you guys could guild me into fitting a better weapon category. I hate to get on my belly(bug issue and allergy). I enjoy shooting, keeping others head down. Cover fire you say? I'm on it! Have gun's that's not common, like m4/m16s.... And I hate AKs... I like defending a base, but I also enjoy staying near the back of the group(after eating a few bbs and catching a few on my cheek, no thank you!). That's about it. PS: why does saw cost so much more than a average AEG? Isn't a saw just like an AEG but with a drum mag?... |
Bigger gun, more money, more shooting means you need better parts, means you HAVE to upgrade it.
As a 249 gunner: 1) I never go prone unless im on top of a hill 2) It's rare that I sit back and defend 3) It's rare that I sit back 4) I'm typically the one pushing the assault forward Really depends on your squad tactics. An LMG can be a very static thing, or like in my case, it can be very mobile firepower. However it's difficult to employ a static 249 without squad support. My 249's fully upgraded minues a tightbore, shoots DAMN far, and I'm always on the front, and always racking up kills lol |
Kick door. Spray figure eight. Clear. Repeat.
This is SAW CQB. |
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How much money did you put into that 249?. And what is it's range? Quote:
Priceless.... |
You should probably lend or borrow a M249 or other light machine gun to try out at the game and if it's working for you before invest on them.
I tried 3 time with 3 different SAW and none of them working for me. |
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Carrying the bitch is half the fun to be honest, the times I've had a C6 or C9 and I see the other guys with the C7s...... it's a good feeling :P
That was back on Sq though, I don't think I've carried a bitch since then :( |
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He meant he doesn't like common guns like armalites, as in such as. Not like as in shows affection towards.
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SAW Gunner tactics (from video games) appears to be short bursts of fire to keep enemies down so the squad can advance safely. A DMR or sniper can do this as well just by giving slow accurate fire to let the enemy know that there's accurate fire coming their way. Either way the goal is to keep them down so you can rush in and eliminate the enemy team if they're holed up somewhere or if they're advancing on a hill/bunker.
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And look at it this way - if you want to get into the support gunner role, expending BBs is part of the job. Investing in a SAW and not wanting to spend money of BBs like investing in a Lamborghini but not wanting the fuel costs associated with it. |
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Since he is relating a SAW to a Lambo, you NEED to get high quality BBs.
Just my opinion, go out to an event and empty out the BB Bastard of their BBs. Horde the BBs and stash up! :) That way, you don't need to pay for shipping. |
BB jams in full auto only guns are not a pretty thing
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Apply that analogy to airsoft for BBs. As you mentioned some hop ups etc are cheap to replace, but why not just not have to replace them at all by spending the few extra dollars and getting bastards? |
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However, you could just ORDER BB Bastards. They're top quality BBs (many would argue the best available in Canada) and cost $10 for a bag of 2000. And the velocity of your gun has no bearing. Cheap BBs will damage your hopup and leave residue inside your barrel, even possibly damaging the inner barrel. Also cheap, unpolished BBs don't have consistent sizing. That means they affect your accuracy, as they don't all leave the barrel at the same velocity and with the same amount of hop, They can potentially jam your barrel too. Jams can actually lead to internal mechbox damage - anything from a damaged nozzle to blowing out pistons and / or gears because of overpressure in the barrel preventing the piston from being able to return to battery. It's not a pretty thing. When you take all into consideration, the small amount you initially save by using cheapo BBs can very quickly surpassed several times over in repairs to your gun. And this goes for ANY gun, not just a SAW. |
SAW gunners
used as support for squad/team to move forward used to defend objectives usually on the ass end of a patrol carries a fuck tonne of ammo carries a damn heavy gun for long periods of time needs to be able to sprint and keep up with his squad/team Squad Automatic Weapon is a support weapon, it can be used on the assault alone(i've seen it done) but in a squad/team role it is purely support you are tasked with constant fire at the enemy to suppress them. not much more. |
I LOVE CARRYING "THE BITCH"!
Believe me you can have ALOT of fun with an LMG. I wouldn't suggest it for your first gun, but definetly your second. |
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I was thinking of playing sniping, but considering the field we play on, I get about 20-50 feet of clear view then bushes. Also after reading their play style, that change my mind completely. I've been thinking, what's the different between a LMG and a upgraded(towards ROF) m15/g36 with a drum mag?... Other than the weight of course... Thanks all for your input! |
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Nothing other than appearance. And just in case you didn't know, LMGs don't have a particularly high rate of fire. |
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A lot of game hosts use ammo restrictions... for instance... a rifle / smg can have 300 rounds on them... and no hicaps (including drum mags). A SAW gunner (with SAW gun... ) can have 600 rounds, and use their drum mag... More often then not, slapping a drum mag on an AK / M4 / G36 DOES NOT make you a SAW gunner. |
The SAW gives sustained support fire.
Since it has the big beefy mechbox you can keep dumping bursts down without the same worry that a guy with a MP5 etc. and a drum mag will have of shredding his internals. |
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But Shelled is correct. In practice, games will often have ammo restrictions with the amount carried, and many will not allow standard rifles to be used as LMGs with drum mags. |
If employed properly in a support gunner role the saw gunner ends up carrying more and running more than anyone else.
Often support guns are deployed on the flanks of the line of battle .. which means when contact happens the gunner has to make a mad rush to get set up on the flank. You want your gunners on the flanks so that they can suppress while the formation moves up without worrying about someone walking in front of your fire. If you put gunners in the middle of the line.. the width of arc will get smaller and smaller as your guys advance.. and you will get B on B happening. Once your guys are assaulting you can swing your fire to the rear of the enemy to provide cut off if you are deployed on the flank |
At real cap games (i.e. the # of BBs in a mag is "real" to what real steel would be) and ammo limited games (i.e. the total number of BBs you can have with you regardless of what capacity mags you have).....SAW/LMG gunners can really swing the tide of things. They are then usually allowed more ammo (total and at any given time) than rifleman loads.
It would suck if at such games EVERYONE came out to such a game with a SAW/LMG...but that tends not to happen. They work great when combined with riflemen. They work great for stitching an area while others move up (if every just holes up and snipes pot shots then they quickly lose their effect), laying in enough fire to flush out a position (i.e. to displace an opponent so your buddies can get the drop on them). They bring sustained firepower (even if they're shooting the same ammo/same FPS as rifles)...by virtue of their larger ammo capacity. All of the above works for ammo cap/real cap stuff....when every rifle on the field has 300 rounds on tap or each guy can carry 3000 rounds....it doesn't make that much of a difference. Then you'd be better off designating a couple of guys to be "squad gunners", almost regardless of the rifles they have in their hands. The common thing in all this...is that any use of them works best when teamed up with a couple of other guys. Work together and you'll be able to really exert maximum pressure and kick ass. With rare exception a SAW gunner on their own is going to get chewed up as fast as a lone rifleman or anyone else. |
First, metaltechs are CRAP BBs. I bought a bag 2 yrs ago to try them out. They shot worse than flying colors in my G3, they JAMMED another guy's PTW, and they were shooting all over the place.
Second, high quality BB nothing. If your a good guntech you can run shit BB's in any gun. I've heard dozens of people talking about how flying colors are crap and they jam stock guns, and they jam upgraded guns, and they jam mags. I've shot over 20 bags of flying colors and not once have I EVER had a jam in any of my 6.03 tightbore barrels. Third, my 249 gets the same range as my M4, which is about as good of a range as you can get out of an AEG using .28s |
What are "flying colours"?...a brand?
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They have a range of weights, and are always coloured (in a variety). http://ultracartthumbs.s3.amazonaws....191594DDF7.jpg |
Oh wow, thanks everyone! I learn a lot about LMGs. Thanks for your time.
I desided not to get one mainly because of the cost. |
I'm usually playing as a sniper and on some occasions, assault.
But I did one game as a LMGer using an RPK and it was very refreshing. Basically, my role was laying down supressive fire while my teamates would move into position to flank or assault. While they form a skirmish line and fire at the ennemy on semi and move in bounding 2 mans teams, I would keep up with them and keept a large volume of fire outgoing. It was easyer to do with a drum-mag and full auto compared to 30-60 rounds lowcaps. If you play milsim and everyone respect the roles and limitations of it's weapon and position, a LMGer will be spraying a lot of BBs while covering your team movement. Compared to assaulter, wich purpose was delivering more aimed shots and manuvering for the kill. Comments from people playing against us was: "Man, how many of you where there? it was an incessant barrage of fire!" I think the cheapest LMG you can buy is the RPK or MG36. Modded AK47 will run you probably sub 1k$ compared to a M249 that will be over 1K$ stock. |
A lot of stricter games don't accept the MG36 as a LMG however.
And you can get an A&K M249 for well under $1K (new). |
I wanted one too. And just this sunday got to use one for a match. It was a full metal M249 and at first I joked around wanting to carry 2 of them but just running around with 1 I've gained a new respect for that gun. IT'S HEAVY! Easily one of the heaviest I've gotten the pleasure of using.
It's safe to say I never want to own one now lol. Well maybe if I can turn one into a back mounted gat... :rolleyes: Like everyone else said, supression and support role. We did attack and defend and a team member had his M249 while defending and would literally just pour BB's out onto the advancing forces keeping them back. |
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I just got a brand new A&K M249 (C9). Well im about to get it as its not even out yet. On preorder for April 30th. And yes, for WELL under $1000. I could buy 2 of these beasts for that kind of money... its not really any more expensive then a mid to high-end AEG |
I dunno about the suppression and support role, exclusively. Mine's an assault rifle on steroids. It's also not the heaviest gun I have (my SAM-R, when fully accessorized, holds that title).
I think LMGs are a bit like sniper rifles: you need to really want to get into that role, it's not just something you start using randomly. I really wanted to play with one and a while back Brakoo lent me his for a game; after that test drive, I knew it was something I had to buy. But if you're just looking for another AEG, it probably isn't the right gun for you. |
Well if you want a GOOD LMG, it'll cost over 1000$
And by GOOD LMG, I mean one you can land on and it won't explode. You can cut down trees with my G&P 249 and it's 8.5kg fully loaded My favorite tactic back when Lycan was still playing (he had a G&P 249 ranger, same ROF as me), was to use alternating burst fire. Essentially we would act as one M249 with a 5000round box mag, alternating fire between us so the enemy would think it was just one M249 firing quick bursts, or if we had a long pause, they'd think it was a trigger happy rifle that was reloading. Then as soon as they start to move up we let loose :D Double M249's even at 900rpm still lay down a hell of a lot of fire! |
Bit of a derail but since were talking about LMG's anyway does anyone know when the Real Sword Type 97 support weapon will be released? It was announced at the shot show awhile back but i haven't heard anything since then. BTW for those who don't know what i'm talking about i mean this http://www.oneworldairsoft.com/page/...-TBA-10174.cfm
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Enough Said.
YouTube- Support Gunnery at Ballahack Airsoft 2/20/10 Cover fire for your troops to move in on the enemy. |
So what's the best way to increase my ROF on a normal AEG?... and in what order is best?..
I heard that, Battery is the easiest, if you increase too high of voltage, it'll burn out your motor?... Next is the motor, high speed one would be good along the battery, then the gears along with bushing. Let me know what you think and know. |
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1)Battery, MOSFET switch 2)piston, sorbo pad, properly shimmed gears, metal bushings. If you have CA/TM/G&G gears, you'll need better gears. 2)Rest of your internals, motor |
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Anyhow, back on topic - Suppressive fire would be really nice. Since you can pin down someone or a group and your team can flank them. With a SAW you would probly have enough ammo to do this properly and it would be the most realistic role if you had that gun. :) |
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So I've been looking at place that sells some decent upgrade parts for my gun...
Is there any decent brand you could name from top to bottom? I'm thinking element, but not 100% sure if their good considering their price compare to Guarder brand. A bit off topic, but it'll still relate to it as of how this post went. Thanks again for your input and without starting a flame war. |
As an ACM brand, Element are a hit or miss. I personally consider they're a good bang for your buck for externals and gear (communications and such), however I wouldn't trust them for internals as failure of 1 part may end up destroying the whole mechbox.
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Element is awful. Guarder has good dimensional control but their part material is weak.
Systema is still my standard staple for upgrade parts, but prometheus is without a doubt the best on the market. |
I run a M60 E4, the thing is a beast. Upgrades are almost a must, i tossed in a top speed ratio gear set and a tm eg1000 motor into mine the thing just spews bbs.
Generally when I see my local bastard I buy ten or fifteen bags at a time to be sure i have enough bbs for a while, in a 4 or 5 hour game I generally onl go through about 2 bags or 4000 rounds. I generally keep one boxmag full plus two reloads on me just incase though there has been the odd game that I have used more than that. SAWs are damn heavy though if you get a full metal one, and not one of the wussy plastic ones my 60 is almost 20lbs when its loaded. So be sure to get a well padded strap. The three things im generally tasked to doing are assault, ambush and defence assault and defence are self explanitory. What lost people overlook is what a saw can do in an ambush situation. When ambushing an enemy get some good consealment, a ghullie suit helps alot, pelreferably near a trail. And just wait for some enemys to pass by you dont want to start shooting untill there about 30 feet away and open up. If you dont wait you might not get them all and have fire coming back your way. This works really well if you have a fire team with you. |
Is it one of the Inokatsu M60?
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Nah its the A&K
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WOW Thanks for the info!
I'd love to get a saw, but the thing, THERE ARE NONE AROUND!!!... It's crazy hard to fine, plus the cost is crazy even if I found one... Thanks again for all your input! Please feel free to continue sharing your story about the roll, style, or even what you went through with the weapon! Really enjoy hearing them all! |
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By the way, your post isn't even related to the original question... Why do I even bother. I'm just trying to be friendly and being negative like what you are doing just annoys me.... |
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Mind giving me a list of saw name? So far I know: M249 M60 |
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If someone posts a question, dont ramble about your airsoft problems. |
Go to the sold AEGs subforum and punch in M249 and you'll have a whole flood of posts to grab other keywords from.
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Humm, oh well, I give up...
Thank you all for your time and effort in helping understand the roll of a LMG. I'll be looking forward in finding one in the near future. |
LMG36 (only useable on some fields seeing as it's NOT a real world LMG)
RPK PKM (that's right, it exists in airsoft) M249 M240 Browning M1919 (the allied WW2 waterjacket LMG) MG42 MG34 Browning M2 The M60 abortion of a machinegun and it's many variants And the HK23 or 21, I believe redwolf makes it as a custom gun |
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They make the para version that looks like crap. Incendentally, I myself made an HK11E conversion kit a while back... WAY back.... back when I didn't even have an ASC account apparently LOL
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=32094 |
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I have a question about support gunners: What type of secondary weapon do they carry? (if they carry any at all)
Could you carry a SAW as a primary and a M4 on your back as the secondary? |
I don't doubt it, but I don't see the point of carrying any more weight than you have to.
I've seen people just pack pistols. you're already carrying a gun with thousands of rounds. That, and carrying another longarm is kind of silly, chances are you'll take a dive and break it unless its really secured to your person |
Depending on the game I may carry my KWA MP7 along with the SAW. Then at some points in the game I'll set it aside and just use the SMG. More on all day sim scenarios where I don't want to carry it back and forth 50 times.
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Humping a MG and a rifle is not necessary. Most guys who run MGs tend to bring a rifle as back up if the gun goes down. But it's left in the SZ or the FOB. |
PM specops420 on JOC, he will tell you all about his love/hate relationship with SAWs.
They are fun when they work but a heavy POS when they don't. IMO stick with an M4/AK until you've gotten some more experience. Learn the basics then branch out from there. You've gone through 3+ guns in 8 months? Yikes. I've been playing for 5 years and am only now considering trying a DMR set up. No need to rush things. |
3years, 1500rpm, 380fps
G&P M249's mechbox has NEVER broken down ;) I've nearly stripped the piston once due to messing up my TM configuration, put 2 new motors in it, broke the anti reversal latch spring once, and popped the feed tube off my box mag 3 times (I have a spare box mag just incase), but the mechbox has never stopped working ever :D My M4 on the other hand, broke all the G&P gears, piston head, the O-ring off my aluminum piston head got wedged into the port in the cylinder somehow, 5 broken trigger springs, 2 broken triggers, 2 hopup rubbers and 3 motors. But I still get more kills with my VSR than I do with my 249 on average. The 249 is just more fun :D |
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It was cumbersome...but not all that heavy. If things got hot and heavy we ditched our packs (and thus the extra stuff attached to the packs) for more ease of movement. IMO, a pistol should be a must carry item....don't know that you need too many mags for it though. When you're in a rifle fight and you've got to go to a pistol things are getting pretty dire pretty quickly. I'm going to try and run a SAW and a have a small PDW slung/in a pack. Folded up it's about as small as a collapsed MP5 and pretty tiny. I'll likely ditch it (with the pack) as we establish FOBs and whatnot. If the SAW goes down...it'll end up in the bushes and the PDW will take on primary duties. For a fun-day of small skirmishes...I usually don't bring a backup rifle. The games and stuff are usually pretty laid back and casual. The only time I do is if I'm testing out a new mechbox/rifle/etc... For events and milsims...I'm definitely taking out fall-back weapons (at least one). They may stay locked up...or might get hauled out to the field/in-play (since some of the walks out to the staging/parking areas are long, long walks). So do what you want to...but make sure you can do it. |
A question to all you SAW gunners, I'm considering getting an A&K M60 (I know I'm not age verified here, and this isn't my first AEG by far), but I'm starting to wonder how I'm going to transport it. For my other AEGs I have a soft case and a hard case... but I doubt I could make the M60 fit into any of those.
What do you guys use? (Planning on upgrading at least the barrel to a Prometheus and the hopup rubber) Apologies if this is off topic, but I don't think it's enough of a tangent to deserve it's own topics. On that note, I've seen 2 games where SAW gunners were the first people out of ammo; made me laugh. |
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I've had my m249 para for quite some time and have tried other saws, they fit me well. They sell specific cases for most of the saw style guns if not buy a LARGE soft case and your good to go. Ive learned with a saw dont carry much, webbing works well with just a few attachments. Ive gone as small as using a webbing belt and thats it with my saw. I recc an mp5k as a sidearm it works well if you decide to go with a side arm. My squad's ive been in like suppresive fire this can mean alot of get down and hide a spray as much plastic as you can downfeild. but using a sliding stock is more manuverable and will allow you to move around alot if needed.
3 things to remember: 1. 30+ pounds of gear and a saw is hard to carry all day without a stop 2. Its airsoft you will get dirty on alot of feilds 3. Have fun! Even a saw can run around and do the same thing an m4 can sometimes better |
I'm one of the smallest guys out here playing airsoft, and I carry a G&P 249, spare M4 AEG mags that I can't even use, a KAC PDW + 6 gas mags, 4000 rounds, a spare box with 2500 rounds, 3L camelbak, bigass combat knife, AND my ego.
I carry more gear than most riflemen and they still have a hard time keeping up lol The SAW gunner should be in the BEST shape ;) |
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Sushi got his new 60 today, in time for claybank :D 160lbs 5' 4" carries M60, M4, 226, + 20-30lbs of gear and can still outrun everyone on our team. |
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