THe Final discussion...P90 TM v E90
 

I'm new to this site and even live in the US but from all my research on p90's this site has been the most insightful on the styles of P90's and i have read the Elitest thread about what is and isn't an elitest from kalren so i hope i can be given some breathing room.

P90's are my favorite style of gun and i'm extremely interested in buying one.
I am buying it for use in airsoft events and not as a wall hanger(as i've seen the e90 somewhat described as) just to make that clear.

The price ranges i have seen for p90's on US sites for the tm p90 are $260-320

The price ranges i have seen for the echo 1 E90 are $155-175

As i have read and clearly understand is that most guns can be upgraded regardless of the cost to become competitive guns. So what it comes down to between the E90 and Tm P90 is what gearbox are you buying the outsides are cosmetic and are purely the IMO* of the people who own them. I could care less about the trades and the metal upper if the gun doesn't work after 2,000 rounds on the E90 as i have sometimes read(lemon or not that is still a reflection on the QC of Echo 1 as a whole).

I have done literally 30 hours of research of reading reviews and watching you tube reviews and just staring and the pictures of each on sites. The main questions I wish answered that are beside the point of which gun should I get are labeled as Q#1-X I hope these can be answered.

I'm not even going to consider the CA90 (this is not a reflection of my thoughts of CA as a company) i am somewhat of a noob which is why i seeking advice on such a noble group of forum subscribers as such on this site) i have bought two guns before in my airsoft career both which have failed me from nameless manufactures but i achieved what i sought from them, a love for airsoft. I Regret the purchases to be sure, and wish i would've just bought a high end gun from the get go but i was successful in my goals nonetheless. Now i'm looking for an airsoft gun in which i have a deep love for in style and a need for a well performing rifle in which others will see my choice of gun as respectable. MY price range is below 400 saving money an objective but not the goal adding a smart charger seems important, something that I do not have. I am using it mainly for woodsball and so I am looking into getting a barrel extension, medium length just enough to make it m4 barrel size, a tight bore barrel, a laser, a flashlight, and an optic for the top rail.

Back to the comparison I hope I have expressed my goals for the next purchase accurately.
First the negatives, since they are really what separate one gun from another and are what any quality reviewer looks for. Both guns are reviewed as Stock. I have never owned either but I have shot the Tm P90
Negatives TM P90(there are significantly less for the TM naturally and less important than the faults of the E90)
First off the TM clearly costs more
One Mag
shoots softer
plastic upper receiver Q#1 It is in my interest to by a metal upper, it is a cosmetic discrepancy but important to me but the question is that is the E90 metal upper worth the $50-85
Non metal 7mm bushings(the E90 has but is this important?Q#2)
Positives Tm P90
The QC of TM outstanding
The most longevity out of the two clearly from what I have read
Correct Trades
Something that people may not know, the TM P90 is a very quiet gun it is like a short breath the gun takes every time a BB is fired compared to the violent sneeze and cough of the E90
Couldn’t decide what category to put this in.
The TM doesn’t come with a battery or charger which could be a good or bad thing because if it is necessary to buy a new battery Q#3 should i? Budget? Do I need a butt stock extension
Now for the E90
Negatives
The QC of what I have of Echo 1 is very conflicting 2,000 rounds and no more semi is not what I want to buy and even the chance of getting one that does that is disgusting.
The lube inside of the gearbox is a bit much
The Shimming is the main concern, not very well from what I have read.
Positves
Shoots harder
Metal upper receiver costs less, not that I am pinching pennies but this allows for more room for upgrades.
Two mags
Battery included
To be fair to the E90 the stress placed on the gearbox may be due to the facts that it does shoot so much harder and the sound from the metal piston head during firing.
So in conclusion here are the main questions I pose form this post
Is the money saved from buying the E90 enough so that the gun can be upgraded to the level of quality and LONGEVITY of the Tm P90. But since as I stated before these guns are very very similar besides the differences in the pros and cons, so it comes down to what gearbox are you buying from what company.
Is the E90 a good or bad quality gun? I read form Kalren ( extremely sorry if spelled name wrong) that his Jg/Echo P90 was his little gem and I want to belive him but from what I have read I feel like I am leaning towards buying the TM in coordination to the vote total I saw on the other review on this site for the CA, TM and E90. But why pay more if the Echo1 can beat the TM out with upgrades for the same or under price. So does the Semi auto fault of the E90 come into play often? Is the poor shimming going to tear up the gearbox?
I wish to have a companion P90 for life, not a gun that will die on me and costing double in the long run when I buy another. I am also looking to increase the FPS of the TM If I buy it, what will I need to buy? Motor?
TM or E90? I appreciate all replies on this thread Thank you for reading.

check the ca90 proline. way better than the sportline

I've been doing my shopping:

Echo1 P90's -$400

CA Proline -$420 +GST (from Ken) *NOT the cheap Sportline which is a POS...

BTW these are Canadian prices.

Now, even though the Echo1 version has good reviews and all, it can't stand up to the Classic Army Proline version, especially for just a few bucks more.

If I were you, living in the US and all, get the TM or Classic Army Proline. Much more robust and will last you a lot longer. Just be glad you don't have to deal with our higher prices :)

And with the CA Proline, all the upgrades I need to add is a tightbore barrel and a Lipo battery!

CA90
 

Really? You recommend the CA90 proline? Hm i'll definitely check that out. It's much better than the sportline? what makes it better than the E90 specifically?

Thanks =)

http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/index...e-battery.html

What is the projected longevity of this compared to TM P90?

Wow it actually is very impressive Thanks again.

Anyone recommend a better site to purchase this at?

cant go wrong with airsoftgi. the only bad thing are the high cap p90 mags. but then again every p90 high cap sucks

+1

I do not have any problems with TM high caps for any gun. So long as you properly and quickly seat the P90 mag after you wind it. The mag will always fire pretty much every single BB without having to be rewound.

I'm pretty sure you've decided on the CA version but I would have suggest you stay away from the Echo.

I've worked on a 2 E90's and the quality of the internals is just all over the place.

In one case there was no hopup included with the gun and the motor terminals were soldered to the wiring.

In the second case, the piston rails in the box where not straight! nor where they of uniform depth.

So do most people agree the CA Proline is the Top of the Line P90?

I'm seriously considering it I've just thought that the TM was the best but the CA is definitely changing my mind

Airsoftgi is out of stock!!

Thanks for the replies thx

I can't comment on the CA P90, never owned one. however, i do own a TM and Echo1 P90. The Echo1 is overrated plain and simple. The internals are quite poor with respect to quality of parts and fitment tolerances. Within 1K rounds my piston , piston head and cylinder head blew apart. Gears are xyz garbage and motor is better suited to sharpen your pencil. The body is splitting at the seams (easily remedied but still..) The motor cage is particular to the brand of motor as well (g&p m120 wouldn't fit unless modified)

My TM on the other hand is going on it's 10K cycle with nothing worn or broken (excpet the cutt-off lever but that was my fault) The only upgrade done was metal bushings to accomidate an m100 spring. 2 years of MY use (was purchased second hand) and still a beast and goto gun when i want dependability.

Take the CA recommendation with a grain of salt as i'm not sure if any of the previous posters have actually owned and gamed one on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong the CA proline, in general, is pretty good but this does not neccessarily guarantee the p90's performance.

I own 3 TM P90s. Witch are for indoor, outdoor and loner.
Usually im out shooting once or twice a week for 5 years mainly at TTAC3 and the only problem I have ever had with any of them is the return spring for the trigger contacts eventually breaks. This just happened with my outdoor gun, and happened a year or so ago for the indoor. Its a quick fix if your a smoker. Break your bic lighter take the spring from under the red bit cut and bend the ends out and you have a replacement spring.

In closing those who know me know iv got a volume of fire approach and dont treat my P90s lightly. There also all purchased used from the classifieds here on ASC. If you want work horse reliability go TM.

I own the TM P90 with 2 gearboxes completely stock, the other highly upgraded for field use. The gun was purchased used from this forum and supposedly run hard for 4 years and now i've had a chance to run the gun now for 1.5 years and not had any issues. My experience with the stock gearbox is excellent. Once you put upgrades into the guns you can't really make fair comparisons.

I haven't worked on a CA90 but I have heard positive and negative about it from forums. The only consistently bad thing I hear about the TM P90 is that it's "low FPS".

I'm part of a Chinese language airsoft forum for Mainland China players and THEIR preferred P90 is the TM over the CA, JG/echo because of the superior hopup from the TM model, & that the gearbox shell is very consistently built.

If i ought the complete P90 systema tune up kit which of the p90's should i buy?

Tm p90
 

Just my 2 cents worth, I have had mine for 7 years. During that time it has been gamed very other week. Gears, motor and spring were upgraded when I got it.


It has never failed broken down or had any issue, beyond a sticky trigger bar, 30 second fix with a bit of grease. That was after 6 years of use. It still shoots within 25 FPS of where it was when I had it upgraded, about 365 with .20's.

I've had my tm for about 6 months now. Love it.

Will be trying to find a sportline just due to the cheap cost. :)

As I would like to have a few p90's. loaners etc.

TM P90 4 years and running now

Upgrades are as follows
Guarder Cylinder head
Guarder Cylinder
Modify Nozzle
Guarder Spring Guide
Modify 300fps spring.
Systema Metal Bushings
G&P Metal Receiver.
Systema Turbo Motor
Sanyo 9.6v Jbatt

Using only TM Lowcaps.

My P90 is my CQB High ROF Gun. Keeping it at 300 FPS not only prevents bursts from hurting too much, but also keeps the ROF high.

I havent handled the CA Proline, but the sportline is absolute shite.

The difference between Proline and Sportline is not just the metal body, its the complete overall materials used in the gun. Upgrading the internals will not make up for the rest of the shoddy components you CANT replace.

Overall, CA is pretty good and easily comparable with the TM, and the metal receiver saves you from having to buy an aftermarket one.

Most people think that just replacing the gearbox will fix all their problems, "Oh im gonna upgrade i anyways so w/e" attitude stinks, primarily because if your using clone guns, your dealing with clone parts and tolerances. And it doesnt matter how great your gearbox is if your losing airseal due to your hopup and gearbox not aligning properly.

Take it from someone whos worked on countless guns... clones are nothing but trouble. Whatever money you save on clones, youll be spending on gun doc fees and youll still have the rest of the parts with shoddy tolerances and materials.

Do it right, the first time. Itll save you money and grief on the long run.

no american retailers seem to even have the tm p90 instock. let alone the proline. airsoftgi. airsplat.

I don't know a lot of them. but it seems pretty low in stock

I have a CA p90 and its sweet. I had a TM p90 back in 02ish and I loved it as well its just the CA has better feeling plastic and is way heavier. Not to mention quite a bit more powerful, mine was shooting around 340 with .25. Around 1.5 joules I think. I like the TM mags better, the TM has better trades and the selector switch has a better feel.
Never dealt with a e90 so I can't comment on that. I would choose the CA over TM and KS.

Buy the Echo1. I had my piston (stripped after <300 rounds), gears, cylinder/cylinder head, tappet plate, and spring guide all replaced. I also have an AK length tightbore installed. If your're planning on replacing most of the internals and you're a noob, there really isn't an easier place to start than the ver. 6 gear box. $150+ of upgrades can make the E90 nearly unmatched in the field!

That would be a good idea but in some cases the E90 gearbox comes from the factory warped. Which means going out and buying a stock TM box on top of your E90. Not worth all that effort.

Again if you're really cheap, u CAN buy another E1 gearbox and upgrade that. Odd of getting 2 gearboxes that are lemons are slim (I think?)

Not to put down this gun in any way, but at this point, there's not much TM left in this gun. To tout TM as the item of choice with "4 years and running now" when there's little of the original gun left really negates the argument. We see this argument over and over about people saying how TM are the best, yet when they list their upgrades, there's usually little left TM in the gun in the first place. Not a shot against the TM P90 by any means, but I just think that it makes the argument rather moot.

^ Agree with the above.

Also, I have the E90. It's a fun gun. Works fine. I got mine for $350, and truth be told I wouldn't pay anymore than that for a JG.

The TM one works fine too. It's a nice piece. Personally, I think the CA one with the translucent upper looks like shit. I guess you could paint it.. but I'm a lazy bastard.

It was bone stock for 3 of those 4 years crunch. I replaced the stock bushings right away with metal ones when i got it and thats it.

the last year is when i upgraded it.

eh..... Let's say that my HK supplier of OEM TM parts stopped carrying Echo parts because they where 'poor' quality.

I just worked on my 3rd E90 and same warped gearbox AND a hopup dial that doesnt do anything because the adjustment wheel wasnt cut properly.

Agreed! Glad mine is steel.

That's rather expensive. They've sold new in the forums for as low as $300. The highest I've seen was $350. I'd love to see your $400 source. I know I wouldn't pay that much for the E90. I got mine new for $300 shipped.

Fair enough. Then it's valid. I just hear that way too often in "TM vs Other Brand" arguments. People go on about how great their TM gun is, then they list they upgrades to a metal body, aftermarket front end, and myriads of internals upgrades shortly after getting it. Hell, my C8 started out as a TM, and there's nothing left TM in it now other than the piston body and motor. I would never claim it to be a TM. Yet, others would. To me, that negates the pro-TM argument altogether, because at that point it's a custom gun.

And I will vouch for TM P90's quality. I've got a local friend who has one, as well as his girlfriend. They've been bone stock for 3 years and problem free. They game them regularly, and they're great guns. They look great and perform admirably for guns with such short barrels. Other than the plastic receiver that feels lightweight, there is nothing wrong with this gun whatsoever. If velocity is an issue for someone playing outdoors, that can be fixed easily enough. My only beef is the extra shiny ABS lower. It makes it look cheap. And the body creak can be annoying. Otherwise though, TM are awesome.

That being said, I was the first known person on ASC to get an E90 when it came out about a year and a half ago. It's seen at least as many rounds as those 2 aforementioned TMs combined and has been tested side by side. I can easily outrange them, and at effective range, it's just as accurate. It's bone stock as well. The only issue I had with mine if the cutoff lever wore out rather quickly (an easy to replace $10 part), so it's in permanent full auto now regardless of the selector position. I always have my guns on auto anyway, so that's of no concern to me at all.

For value for the money, I would rank the E90 as the better buy. It's inexpensive, but not cheap (by "cheap" gun standards). If you want the best of the best (that's not THAT much better in this case except cosmetically), then the TM is the way to go. If you want a gun that just works well and shoots hard without having to mess with it, then E90 is the way to go. The only wildcard here is that being a Chinese product, there's a higher chance of having problems with it. On the other hand, TM have lemons too. They're less common, but they're out there. 2 out of my 3 TM guns were such lemons, whereas I've run both my JG guns and my E90 HARD without real issues.

The absolute ignoring of the CA P90 is sad to me

CA P90 is the best value.

Edit: Proline...