Debating between M4 Variant or HK family (mainly G36) and others
 

Hi all,

I'm in the process of deciding which gun I'm going to buy as my first AEG, and I can't quite make up my mind between M4/G36 and the likes.

Most importantly, I'm having a hard time to figure out which brand would offer a good bang per bucks ratio depending on the model chosen...

As my first AEG I'd like a good all rounder for indoor/outdoor, and that can be easily customized (read: have a great compatibility with after market parts). I assume the later would also allows for easier/cheaper fixes in case of problems?

One thing is sure, I'd like the AEG to be as close as possible to the RS version, but I don't care about the markings. A plus if they're there, but I wouldn't pay extra for those for instance. So, full metal where relevant.

I've read pretty good reviews of the KWA G36c as a rock solid AEG with good internals, but I noticed it looks quite shorter than the CA version. What gives? I remember having noticed the same for some M4s in a few Youtube Videos, where the M4 was looking much smaller than it should have been, and I'm not talking about CQB versions and the like. If I'm correct and my memory serves me well, it was an M4A1 or similar. Wouldn't a smaller rifle cause issues in term or ergonomy and such?

I must say I'm really not decided between these two rifles types (and I'm totally open to others, it's just they seem to be more versatile and common so easier to get parts and accessories), so any input that will help me choose will be greatly appreciated.

I'm (trying to) budgeting around 5-600 to have something good, ideally including mags and/or some accessories (I plan on diggin the classified)

Many thanks to you all, I've found a great community here and please to see this so far!

MP

M4: VFC. They are readily available. Working bolt catch and all. Same goes for King Arms, but much less common... Both have great quality and finish.

V3 gearboxes (as in the G36) are sturdier than V2 gearboxes (M4) but honestly as long as long as you're not running it at high FPS, shoudln't be much of an issue.
M4 have more customisation options, but G36 still have quite some.

I don't have much experiences with G36 series but all I can say is that the KWA's have a wide handguard, which isn't the same as you'd usually see on the real gun.

Also remember on thing outfit related : the G36 has the biggest mags of all 5.56 assault rifles and so does the replica.
A M4 mag is about 2/3 of a G36. You can work around it by buying double M4 pouches (or like me 7.62 pouches) or universal ones. Pantac makes some in OD, BD, Black and Multicam ;)

I think the Gen3 KWA G36c got rid of the fat handguard. Everyone is right about the big mags though. A double M4 mag pouch will only hold a single G36 Mag.

The classifieds would indeed be your best bet!

Always, ALWAYS consider the type/availability of gear that surrounds the weapon system you are purchasing.

M4/M16 variant, they are very common but common in a good way, you can do up your gun anyway you want as there are many aftermarket parts for it, and might i say the most after market parts, v2. gearboxes are easy to disassemble and fix and replace parts and parts are super easy to find, you are very limited with the aftermarket parts for the g36 in terms of exterior parts not too much you can change on it to make it unique, there are thousands of combinations for the m4 and only a limited amount for the g36

Watch this:

YouTube - Redwolf Airsoft - Redwolf Tactical Episode 01 - "9 Things You Should Know About Grunts"

The info in there might be useful for choosing a gun.

Why not both? Get an HK416!

Seriously though, much better than any other stock M4 builds. The front-end eliminates barrel wobble.

JG, SRC (GEN III pro), VFC, Hurricane < those are the prices you'll find lowest to highest. I believe the SRC is the most readily available brand new since an AV retailer carries them.

@Eyeore : nice vid, simple and to the point. They do have a sense of humor at RW. Good for newbies.

@OP : Don't go the exotic way on your first AEG. Stick with the more common platforms, be it the Honda Civic of the airsoft world (M4), the AK or MP5. Parts and gear varied and easily available for those.

I will not favor one brand over another. Read the reviews (tons here, at Arnie's, or just Google the model), scan the classifieds, you will find good deals from time to time.

Things to think of :
-Battery in front or back ? Mini, large or special (crane type) ?
-A longer weapon can be a hindrance in CQB or thick bushes, too short a barrel and you loose accuracy over mid-long range engagement distances (not that much in my opinion, but some will debate this.)
-What type of sling ? Does the chosen AEG have the needed attachement points ?
-Optics ? It needs rails (which a stock "standard" AK lacks, and an MP5 requires a claw mount, you need to buy it)
-And etc. all the funny shit you will peruse the classifieds and the web for countless hours...happy shopping !

Looking forward to see you on the field.

Was about to say HK416 but got here too late.

But SRC is no go, prefer the Jing Gong Gen 2 rear wired, I say rear wired because most people prefer it that way and the front wired either me to spend hours modifying stock parts or a new tube and backplate.

M4!
There's no such thing as tactical, efficient, or ergonomic when your talking about G36 mags.
Besides, V2 mechboxes are way easier to work on :D

I have alwys been a fan of the Armalite platform and I probably always will be. I had an ICS M4A1 for a long time and it was great. The adaptability if an M4 is amazing. Their are thousands of aftermarket parts for your gun, and just as many for your gear. I've played with the G36 and I found it was a very nice gun but what discouraged me was the mag issue. A double G36 pouch will fit 3 M4 mags. The added bonus is mag swapping. Like in the Redwolf video above being able to share mags with your teammates is a huge plus. Get the M4. Theirs enough brands out their that making choosing hard enough as it is.

Hi guys, thanks for your advices
I'm now leaning toward the M4 for the above reasons, however I've seen that in the classifieds: ASC Link

How come the price is so low, is there a catch or what? O_o Looks like a good deal to me but I'm not quite sure...

On another note, I love the HK416 too, will it offer the same advantages as the M4? If you were to decide between M4 and HK416, what would push you toward one more than the other?

Thanks Again

MP

The 416 is more popular with HK fans. Their are difference in the two obviously, but if your an HK fan but want an M4 variant then go for that one. The mags are pretty much the same. Most parts are compatible with other M4 variants (RIS, slock, etc)

The only real differences between an AR and an HK416 are in real steel.

Hey! Multipleparadox, your in the same shoes i was 3 weeks ago.

I went to my local airsoft shop to see their M4 and saw the SRC hk 416 VIII pro ( full metal AEG ). When the guy put this beast in my hands, i knew this was the gun for me.

That thing is amazing. Less common then M4, with all those picatinny rail theres a lot to be done, all spare parts easilly available, it's a good choice. I don't know what ninja en short is trying to say, the src hk416 is back wired. ( it's a lot better this way i have to agree ) but i've heard of front wired hk 416, but definatively not the pro version from src.

The only downside i could see ( it wasn't not for me ) is the weight. That beast is heavy.

a lot more then a m4.

Also, if you read around like me, you'll see some comments that they are a pain to fieldstrip ( open and get to the gearbox ) but i was surprise how easy it was... take about 5 minutes and the gear box is open... ( and i'm new to this sport )

the quality is amazing, the picatiny rail are not moulded but CNC machined!

I think for the price... it's an amazing piece, but i'm a noob! but yeah, my heart started to pump harder when i got this in my hands.

Good luck!

Just get a G3 and be happy.

x2. no debate here.

also an AR variant is one of the better choices for a first gun as parts are more widely available.

mag management for a first gun/first time airsoft user is going to be much easier too.

If you want a G36 series gun, get a CA. They are the best, bar none. If you want a G3 style gun, I would also give the nod to CA.

As for an M4 of H&K416, get a VFC. They are arguably the best.

Great info here

Now the killer question is, which brand should I actually consider? CA seems like it's the best in term of external but read a lot of report saying the internals are quite so so...

I haven't seen much report/review about SRC/SRC Pro, KWA, KJW etc...


Any inputs?

I think the country of origin is a good indicator of the quality... Japanese #1, Taiwanese #2 and China #3...

Wrong.

If you do purchase a 416 of any brand, and decide you want to use PMAGs, Star green label PMags will not fit as all 416s have the longer flared magwell compared to a standard armalite. They will need a mod to remove the top front ridge of the mag.

Magpul PTS PMAGs fits no problem.

A very small issue.
So my point still stands.

Thanks for the info
I'll be looking for reviews of the different brands for both models and see what comes up as a good deal in the classifieds then

Edit: also, silly question but, wth is a PMAG as opposed to a "regular" mag if I say so? O.o

MP

CA for G36, VFC for M4

As Donster said, the Classic Army G36 is a rock solid gun externally, Glass reinforced Nylon body compared to ABS or Nylon reinforced of other makes, where flex is more common. I can't speak for the internals as I had not put enough rounds into mine before I sold it.

Do some research on SRC, they also make a glass/nylon composite body for their line of G36s.

KWA uses proprietary parts, just like their 2gx v2 gearboxes.

I'm sure you've probably seem them around, they are polymer magazines made by Magpul.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...HMTJqScw7HVMsQ

Not quite, each mag needs to be either filed down or Dremelled. If a new player decides this issue is minor and buys a box of Greenlabel mags, has little experience they can easily over sand the shell, not to mention the diminished resale value.

Try not to give newer players asking for advice, bad advice, then trying to justify it by stating it is just a "small issue".

Why buy something that you will need modding if there are other products that do not.

Plus Pmags don't make as much issue as a regular Stanag mag :D

But they cost 3x as much.

Dumb look on your dead face or empty wallet in your very alive ass pocket.
World is about priorities :D

Real world yes. Airsoft world...not so much.

Another good candidate for G36s is the ARES one. It has blowback, a quick change spring feature and official HK licensing.

Wowowowow !
On ARES a few things to know : full of specific parts, blowback is just a piece of metal going back and forth, hop up and barrel assembly are specific, soon the GB takes an angle because there is no support on the top of the GB to keep it straight like on other brands plus a few common lemons.

NOT a G36 for starters even if the most georgeous out there.

G36 Rundown

CA - Best Internals/Externals
TM - Poor Externals/Good Internals
JG - Poor Externals/Internals (The odd JG is a tank)
v3 SRC - Arguably a cansoft CA, Optic is not Mil-Spec
ARES - New system, Good Externals, can't comment on internals.

Alright, so no Ares for me thanks
Was wondering about APS? I know it also have the gimmicky EBB "feature" but are they any good? Can't seem to find much info on these either...

Also, let's stop talk about the G36 and focus on M4/416 please :)

Thanks guys, I'm repeating myself but I want to make sure you know I appreciate your effort :)

MP

what kind of AR do you want? rails and a crap load of externals? or a basic plane jane "I can shoot at you" AEG? do you plan to upgrade a bnib gun? does it have to be brand spanking new or is used ok?

for a little bit more than $5-600, you could very easily build one through parts in the classifieds and online site supporting vendors.

I wish I had gone the way of building from scratch. it might seem to be a huge task but it's not impossible with a little help. both my mp5 and m4 have very little left of the original guns. everything either was broken, broke, or I just didn't like it so I upgraded it. actually, I think the only original gun part for both of them is the mp5 full stock. :)

Coachster:

I want something versatile, so that at one point I won't go "oh shit, this accessory looks great, but won't fit mine" (Ok I know it'll probably be inevitable at some point, but you know, reduce the chances/frequency it happens). So yes, basically I want rails to customize depending on the situation. Plus, I like the look of rails as opposed to a plain hand guard.

Brand new vs used: I don't mind if it's used, but needs to be in a good working condition. I don't mind a few wear and tear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood from many posts that it might be a better idea to buy used (from reliable seller of course) with a few upgrades or that it's proven to be working, than buying new and having to mod/upgrade a few things *before* it works. Also buying used would allow me to save a few bucks, so I'd rather go that way.

As for building from scratch, not for now. There's too many factor I don't know about yet, I wouldn't feel secure about this yet.

MP

When I started I bought used guns and upgraded/repaired them. As a noob it was a big of an (expensive) nightmare. Now that a lot of my friends are getting into the sport, I adamantly recommend that they learn from my 'mistakes' and buy a brand new gun as their first. From there, if they want, they can try upgrading it or build/buy a project gun.

This approach reduces the monetary impact and frustration that may turn them off of the sport prematurely.

New, quality AEGs such as VFCs tend to work right out of the box with minimal fuss.

$0.02

Buy used from a reputable gundoc or someone you know takes care of their stuff (ie. if a player has a history of guns that turn up DOA then you should probably avoid dealing with them).

First gun I bought was used and it performed well. You should consider both new and used but again with the qualifier; owned by a reputable gundoc or a player that takes good care of their stuff (I'm not saying they baby it on the field but it wouldn't be too much to ask for simple regular maintenance like cleaning the barrel, making sure it's dry before storing it (if it rained on gameday or got wet in some other way), and wiping dust/dirt off the exterior to keep the externals nice and clean).

Finally, if you want versatile then go with AR15 style rifles, they have the most accessories available from different stocks and front ends to cool accessories like BUIS (Back Up Iron Sight) and all that. Granted there are some accessories that are universal (like the BUIS, flash hiders, and optics) but by far the AR15 platform has the most accessories out there.

Good choice about the not building from scratch thing. I've intensively studied other peoples mods and instructions on how to do things and still don't feel 100% confident in taking on such a project (I think I'll just take a base gun and do some mods to build up my experience more before building from scratch).

PS: If you want versatility you could get an ICS. I believe there are like 3 or 4 parts that are proprietary and aren't compatible with regular gearboxes but if you pickup an extra upper you can take advantage of the "split mechbox" design and have 2 upper receiver setups, one for CQB and another for outdoor field play. (Also note that upper receivers on the AR15 platform are fine for import, only the lower is prohib so pickup 2 ICS uppers and have fun).

there is nothing to talk about. VFC makes a great (if not the best) M4 out there. Performance aside, its got rocking, full metal externals. There are a number of retailers that you can purchase that from for a decent price too. Though decent is subjective and depends on your budget.

The only TM worth getting, IMHO, is their M4 SOCOM or whatever its called. Has a cool recoil feature and is full metal.

Still, go with VFC. If you want a 416, then you should ONLY look at VFC. No other company comes close to touching that gun.

I know there are a few for sale in the classifieds right now. Kinda pricey though. Expect to pay $800+ for the gun.

Ok so it confirms what I was starting to think about VFC :D :P

Question though, I just stumbled on this @ Wargame Parts. What's the deal? Umarex? Still stated as manuf'd by VFC but is it the same thing than buying a VFC branded AEG?

About ICS Split Gearbox, isn't there any chance that this features turns out to be a problem? I mean, won't it cause strain where it wouldn't with a normal gearbox, or is it as reliable as any other? :/

Thanks

MP

VFC used to use H&K trademarks. They stopped making their VFC line for a bit because of trademark infringement. Umarex owns the H&K trademarks. They outsourced the gun to VFC, who basically makes the 416 for them. For all intents and purposes, it is a VFC 416. They have full trades because Umarex permits them to do so.

I cant comment on the ICS stuff. But again, there is no point. Just get a VFC.

If you dont want to drop the money on a VFC, get a G&P.

King Arms is also good, but they are pricy.

If it were up to me (re: if i still played airsoft) i would get a VFC 416, or a VFC M4 SOCOM

Umarex holds the copy right license for HK replica guns worldwide.
Its a love-hate relationship with ICS guns. You love them because you can change the fps and modify the gear box very easily, but on the other hand you have to get specific metal bodies for them. I don't know about reliability because iv'e never owned one. The ARES M4 is awesome too!

Aaaahhh makes a lot of senses
So I guess the 416 VFC is going to be it :D :P
520$ seems a fair price for a brand new one ain't it? What do you guys think?
Not in stock however (but I'm not ready to buy just yet), if you know of any retailer that would have this, let me know

MP

that gun cost around $400 USD
so for the price of $520 , it's very reasonable and shipping is already included
i just ordered one it should be here in a couple of days

Where did you guys find a VFC 416 for $520!?

here
http://www.wargameparts.ca/store/pro...id_product=236

all the guns are being imported as uncontrolled firearm

Definitely agree that VFC makes some of the best ar-15s. However, King arms tend to be consistently cheaper than VFC, their externals are bout on par with VFC and some parts of their internals (gearbox shell, tappet plate) are better quality.

Alright guys, I think I've got enough info on this now, I'll probably settle for a King Arms M4A1, the price is quite good at a few places :D

Now, I just need to clear that damn Visa once and for all before I take the leap :P

Thanks for you great advices, hopefully this thread will also help other people like me!

MP