Gearbox Grease
 

Just bought a G&G GR16 (not from 007airsoft), and read a couple guides about V2 gearbox maintenance. One guide suggested replacing the lube before using it for the first time. The other guide recommends using white lithium grease and silicon gel lubricant.

I have white lithium grease, but it is plant based versus petroleum based.

Amazon.com: Lubrimatic Green Biobased White Lithium Grease, 8-oz tube (10307): Automotive

Should I use it or look for some petroleum based lithium grease?

Thanks.

I was under the impression that you never want to use any petroleum based anything due to plastic and rubber degredation.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I heard the same thing. If it's flammable or contains petroleum, over time it will eat away rubber and plastic.

I don't think the grease is for plastic parts.

This is the guide: http://www.airsplat.com/airsoft-elec...x_tutorial.htm

I just read this: http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums...;topic=79485.0

As I understand it the problem is with leeching.

The gearbox and gears might be metal, but there are a lot of other parts which interact with the gearbox that don't like contact with oil or petrol based chemicals.

You may run into problems even if there isn't visible direct contact.

Yeah, after looking at those guides you definitely don't want to use anything petroleum based.

If the white lithium you have is veg (cellulose) based it is probably just what you need.
Still though, apply it only to your gears, not the piston.

Actually.... I had someone tell me to not use White Lithium and instead use FinishLine Teflon grease. Apparently it's a lot better, more durable and overall just better than White Lithium. Also, apparently a tube will last you forever unless you're a gundoc or work on bikes a lot and even then it should last you a while.

How does Tamiya's boron nitride grease compare to their moly grease? My local hobby shop only carries the former.

After looking at the guide again, the only points that receive lithium grease are the gear axles and bushings. Everything else receives silicon gel.

Yes, white lithium grease is okay for gears and metal bushings but over time, it can get gummy and sticky. Unless you are going to clean and relube once or twice a year, I don't recommend it.

Remember, it's use is for metal on metal contact. It does contain petroleum so keep clear of your cylinder and use silicon grease in there as petroleum will kill your orings.

A good silicone will have enough film strength to protect your metal gears from undue wear.
When using 2 different lubricants in the same area, you have to make sure that they are compatible or undesirable things can happen. I would suggest using only silicone. Both Moly and lithium are solid lubricants and are used as extreme pressure additives in industrial applications. Not necessary for airsoft gear boxes. Stick with a pure silicone lube.

Grease Chart
 

Grease Compatibility Chart

Awesome responses.

I appreciate this thread!

Airsoft Research Syndicate Sticky G Silicon and Molybdenum. The only greases you'll ever need for airsoft.

What are you talking about? This stuff is the last and only grease you will ever need.

MADE IN CANADA

You can get a lifetime supply sized tube of silicone grease at a car parts place. It's used on brake caliper pins.

I vote for ARS sticky-g silicone grease and ARS molybenum gear grease, Ive used them in a few builds already and im convinced :D.

Was surprised that I couldn't find a thread about grease. I would have thought it would be a major topic in regard to gun maintenance.

Now I've seen siliCON and siliCONE grease mentioned :confused:

I believe what you want is siliCONE (IIRC it's the one that's "synthetic" right?) the other one (silicon) is used as a conductor, ie. like in computers )semi-conductors), after all that's why they call it Silicon Valley right. Silicone is used in industry as a lubricant.

PS: Use the FinishLine teflon grease and be done with it. Another user on Arnies highly recommends it over White Lithium.

Grease 101
Greases comprise of 2 elements. The base oil and the thickener. The base oil is the lubricant and the thickener or "soap", is what holds it in place so the oil can do its job.
NLGI rating is the rating given to grease according to the thickness.
Viscosity is the base oil's resistance to flow.
I will use vehicles because it something everybody can relate to. Vet and NooB.
Now most vehicles will take a NLGI 2. Viscosity ISO 220 grease. The Soaps for this application usually use of a lithium soap. As parts start to wear out, you may use a NLGI 2, Viscosity ISO 460. The movement of the parts used for this grease is minimal. ball joints, wheel bearings (which are considered a slow speed bearing) Spring shackles etc.
The higher the rate of travel the lower the NLGI rating you will want.
Eg: your engine could never take grease because it would push the grease to the walls and the base oil with it. You want something that will flow back down and have the ability to get pump back through the engine. It should have the ability to splash lubricate as well.

With that, viscosity will change with temp. Hot oil runs faster than cold oil. The viscosity will change from ISO 3000 (almost solid) at -30c to ISO 35 (like water) at 100c.
Airsoft GB's will never reach these limits, however it still changes.

In an Airsoft GB, there are multiple speeds. The fastest being the motor and the slowest being the sector gear. The piston, due to its travel length and surface area is higher in friction coefficient. Any grease with a NLGI 1 rating or higher would be too much. I would recommend a NLGI 0 or 00 rating. A lubricant made with a pure base oil would be ideal.

I actually use treadmill silicone. Its pure, no damage to rubber or plastic parts. Has excellent stability and viscosity.
Note: I wouldn't use silicone if you have a silicone hop up bucking. Silicone lube is not compatible with silicone materials.

This link in Wikipedia will help understand the conductivity of Silicone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric
It also has excellent Water repelling qualities.

Here are a couple of compatibility charts for Soaps, Base oils and Lube vs seals.

http://www.airesoft.net/Airesoft-Lubrication.htm

Riker,

I laud you for this! Repeatedly, I have attempted to preach the merits of 100% GE Silicone.

I personally use Centistoke levels of 3500 and up of pure GE silicone. I'll use high cst for my gearbox, doesn't fling off the gears, cushions the gears very well, and further reduces gearbox noise and wear. The aforementioned along with proper shimming of course.

I also use lighter weights for sealing my cylinder head, a medium weight over the cylinder head brass nozzle before I slip on the airseal nozzle and then do a compression test, I smile every time.

Film quality is great, if applied in proper amounts and proper weights, it will not dry out and I'm beginning to find it to be a total solution for my airsoft needs, this, despite my love for Graphite spray on lube...

Cst is actually a better term and usage for Airsoft GB's.
At least you don't have any cross contamination using silicone throughout.
By the way, thats what I do.
I'm a Machinery Lubrication Technician 1 with ICML.
PS. Spray lubes should never be used, unless it's down the barrel.

Airsoft barrels should never be lubed!

It negates the hop-up effect!

Everything else being said is spot on though.

Uh-oh.

for your gears you want a very sticky grease. for axles you want a bearing grease.

I've been using lithium grease for the last 10 years and everything is in perfect working order

If it works for you, definitely keep doing it. I by no means want to change your mind or sell you anything. This is simply for you to make up your mind. I personally like silicone, thats my opinion.
PS: I only use lube in the barrel as a cleaner and I never use spray.

Anal lube.

Ironically enough, I have used this for an airsoft gun before. It's good stuff, but far more expensive that the stuff that has already been suggested. Cheaper to go the hardware route.

That guy's problem was that he was using a Classic Army AEG and you can expect the motor to be useless and weak if it is a CA model.

Not going to ask you why you have that.....

My vote is for Amos' suggestion. Works very well.

Decided not to break open my gearbox and re-lube. However, the motor whines when firing, regardless of motor height. There is another thread on this forum about motor whine, but I will ask here instead. What should I consider when looking for a silicone lube for the bevel/pinion gears?

Thanks.

I wasn't kidding so I don't think it's ironic, Anal lube works wonders and some have pretty scents too.

Just don't use the Pina Colada one... that stuff will smell-bomb a room and everything it touches.

Astroglide and KY work wonders =D

I use brake lubricant in my gearboxes weird I know, but it doesn't leave black residue everywhere and also makes a good piston head lubricant. I've used lithium, silicon and all have little airleaks when I put it back together but with brake lubricant I get zero. Plus it only costs like $4-6 at walmart/crappy tire for a huge tube of it.

Is dielectric silicone the same as 100% pure silicone?

Some people used this stuff, so this is what I got. Will it work?

AGS Sil-Glyde

http://www.agscompany.com/lubricants/canadian/205

That stuff appears to be decent enough that I would try it. However, i'll stick with my AG Chemicals solution because:

1. Made in Canada
2. Internal Safe
3. Doesn't conduct electricity
4. Incredibly Viscous, sticks to parts lubed
5. Basically waterproof

Yeah, this Sil-Glyde stuff is extremely thick.

Someone recommended this, but you can get like 20 times the amount of the same stuff for like $6.

I've used Super Lube with Syncolon (PTFE, aka "Teflon") for about 10 years now, and it's been perfect for almost all airsoft use, from all gearbox parts to GBB's. The viscosity has the perfect balance of low resistance with "sticking" power, and the oil base with PTFE has really good lubricating properties.
www.super-lube.com
After doing gunwork for other people for almost 8 years, I'm finally coming to the end of the original 3 oz tube I'd purchased, so I'm looking to buy more of this awesome stuff, but have no idea where to get it.

I had an easier time finding this stuff before, but it seems like it's impossible these days. Does anybody know of anywhere local to find this?

Fastenal is supposedly a distributor.

3400 14th Ave, unit 1
905-305-6379

2200 Markham Road, unit 11
416-642-1856

1990 Ellesmere Road, unit 1
416-297-8971

11 Carlaw Ave
416-645-1383

The last one is near me, I might drop in and see as they have other stuff I sort of need too.

I went to both the Markham Road and 14th Ave locations, but neither had any in stock.

So they do carry it? I'll call before I go.

I just checked their US website, and they said they do carry it... but their online system doesn't link up with the Canadian inventory. Maybe they can order it...

Brian Beware. Fastenal may be like acklands grainger or Mcmaster carr where what is in the US catalogue is not available for sale in Canada due to differences in laws. It sounds stupid but I had a 10 dollar order or O RINGS seized by Homeland security as it was on the ITAR list.

Yes I know they shouldn't have seized as it's <100 dollars and their are commercial and industrial uses but you get a couple of anal idiots and things get stupid fast.

I suggest AG Chemical solution or trying a bicycle supply store. TRIFLOW has a branded silicon grease that contains Teflon and is food safe.

I've seen the MG Chemicals stuff that you're suggesting around here at a few electronics surplus shops, and I ultimately decided to stay away from it because I find that it creeps waaaaaay too much (every single tube I saw of it was covered in the oil, and even the entire shelf was covered in the stuff).
Also, the MSDS Sheet has very strong wording against exposure to fumes, prolonged contact to the skin, or contact to the eyes.

In general, you want avoidance to the eyes or ingestion (duh)... it was just the strong wording that freaked me out a bit. Also, the oil creep was just way too messy for my liking.

The Sil-Glyde AGS Lubricant looks interesting. It doesn't look very different from MG Chemicals - if I ever see it in person, I'd consider looking at it.

As for bicycle supply stores, I have an entire shelf full of bicycle greases and lubricants, and all of them contain petroleum distillates or some variant. I haven't looked much harder beyond what I have on hand, but I'll stay away from bike greases just based on the majority of what I have here.


I like Super Lube, because not only is the viscosity spot on, but the Teflon is a huge plus for that added bit of "slickness" that we all expect a grease to have. It works so well, that I only ever use the slightest layer of the stuff, and it's why this little 3 oz tube has lasted me almost a decade.

As for Fastenal, if anything gets seized, I'm not on the hook. I've had them order stuff in for me before and they don't ask me to pay until they receive the items. I'm ordering direct from the Canadian location - there's no reason why Fastenal Canada Inc. would put my money on the line, just because they couldn't sort out their inventory system internally.

I'm gonna give them a call tomorrow anyways and find out what they say.

Would anyone recommend this stuff?: http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1448

Silglyde brake lubricant is extremely thick, and I'm starting to believe that it is robbing my gun of power. I just installed a new piston, piston head, cylinder head, air nozzle, S100 spring and hop-up. The compression is great, but the velocity is low. It seems to be shooting around 300fps with .20g BBs, when Modify claims the the spring is rated closer to 370fps. I'm thinking the grease in the cylinder is so thick that it's slowing the piston down.

If you guys love your airsoft guns, Super Lube is the best for it. Look up the company and this lube. Do your own reading.

Silicone great on orings and plastic but that is it. It is not designed for the high speed action of the piston. The best lube for that is pneumatic oil that is is rated safe for o-ring seals. Grease creates drag at high speed.

As for your gears, Silcone can be a grease or oil, but neither contains friction reducing features needed to reduce wear.

A light coating on the gear teeth with Super Lube is all you need. It is fully synthetic and food grade safe.

I have been using it over 10 years and can testify to that.

SuperHog hit the nail right on the head. Silicone is actually a very poor lubricant. At best, it's use in airsoft is limited only to cleaning and keeping o-rings moist. Beyond that, there is no need for it.

I'm a firm Super Lube supporter as well, and recently started carrying it. I've also used it for 10 years. A single 3 oz tube lasted me through 10 years of gun smithing!

Is it good for in the cylinder? Where do you get it?

Sure it can be used there. But grease adds drag, just more load for the motor.

Super Lube does synthetic oil in a 7ml precision oiler that would be the ideal for the piston o-rings.

You locate their dealers at www.super-lube.com or I believe ILLusion is a dealer in Canada??

Super Lube Oil is NO GOOD for airsoft use. Despite the non-reactive properties it claims, I've seen it cause more than a few hop up rubbers to swell up (mostly Guarder clear rubbers.) There are more inert lubricants that can be used for the piston head.

Because the cylinder and piston assembly are responsible for firing air directly out the nozzle and in to the hop up rubber, I can not recommend using Super Grease Oil in that area.

Generally, yes, the viscosity of gear grease can slow down piston movement, but I find SuperLube Grease to be on the lower end of the viscosity scale (compared to a lot of the other greases available out there), and only a very very very thin layer is required to keep the surface slick. If you slop too much on, you will notice stiction in the movement. Same goes for pistol slides on rails - only a VERY SMALL AMOUNT is required. When I apply it, I smear on the first coat with one finger, and then use a second clean finger to wipe as much of the excess off. Whatever remains is more than good enough to lubricate, and will also prevent gunk build up from dust or material wear.

As I stated just above, I carry it.

Hmmm, you would expect the Super Lube oil to have the same properties as the grease but in a oil format.

Never used the Super Lube oil on airsoft piston rings but, good to know now.

Anal lube... safe on plastics and rubbers of all sorts.