Threats from across the border!
 

In the state of California a bill, SB798, may get passed making it law to have all airsoft guns be brightly colored or clear.

Some of you may think, it's too far to affect us but you couldn't be more wrong.
People, higher ups, that are against airsoft look for these kind of things to strengthen their views on our sport. It's important that all airsofters, no matter what country you're from, get involved and make your voice heard.

I've already sent the Californian Governor an email regarding this bill, it was well written and emphasized the actions of denying many responsible people the right to this great sports just to penalize a few irresponsible players.

This is what I wrote, I know we have lawyers and the like in the community so please jump in and help your fellow airsofters around the world and let your voice be heard.

I'm a Canadian airsofter and I was just recently made aware of a bill, SB798 to be exact, that the state of California plans on passing regarding airsoft guns being brightly colored or clear due to the actions of select few individuals that do not have the support of the airsoft community. These individuals are a mere 1% or less of individuals who handle their airsoft guns in a disrespectful and harmful manner, I urge you to not take actions against all players because of the actions of a select few.

Sebastien Cote, Barrie, ON

Soldier Systems ran an article on that.

Here's the comment I made on there:

Yet another law that misses the point an only bothers law-abiding citizens…
Law-abiding citizens buying them for collection or airsoft/milsim will follow the law, criminals using them for robberies will just get the clear ones and paint them or simply buy out of the state.

And this will also cost a couple thousand jobs, as California has probably highest number of airsoft stores in the US plus the many airsoft-only fields or the paintball/airsoft fields that will see much less players because, as the editor said, there’s no point in milsim with bright pink guns…

California is getting almost worse on guns than Canada – that’s saying a lot.

Airsoft GI has this lovely piece written:

"Subject: California Senate Bill 798 / 2011


Dear Sir:


Please support the WITHDRAW SB 798, the bill proposed by Senator De Leon. It has the potential of causing all airsoft guns to be colored blaze red, bright blue, bright green, or clear. These are the same colors currently required for toy guns in California, and will have the effect of causing people to believe these are toys. Airsoft guns are not toys, and should not give the impression by their color that they are. If they are the same colors as toys, parents will be less likely to supervise their use, and children less likely to use the correct safety precautions that they normally would with using an orange tipped airsoft gun in black. This bill will cause MORE injuries and potential harm than the current law and federal regulations for imitation firearms. Please leave the current regulations as they are. Airsoft has had a remarkably safe history. Please do not change this good record now by pushing a bill which was considered 6 years ago, and rejected by the Attorney General of California for the above reason. Please encourage Senator De Leon to retract the bill.


Sincerely,"

I was recently talking about this bill with a friend of mine and after lots of discussion its kinda hard to argue against it when you weigh the pros vs cons...

sure, I dont want to play airsoft with some pink or light blue gun, but at what cost? for our personal enjoyment? because games are more fun when the guns look real?

its hard to argue against that...

and the points such as: its going to be hard to tell the difference between toy guns and airsoft guns and being unsafe for kids is a real stretch...

1. where are kids getting these guns from when you have to be over 18 to purchase them?

2. if a parent is so neglectful that they dont pay attention to something like a airsoft gun in a kids toybox then airsoft is the least of that kids problems growing up...

I want to argue for airsoft, Im just having a hard time... help me out on this one...

Because it's another ignorant law that punishes only the law abiding and does nothing to address any issue whereby people might be using airsoft to commit crimes. If people are willing to paint over/remove orange tips to commit crime then they will be willing to paint over a pink gun to commit crime. Period.

This law does nothing but make frightened people feel slightly placated and damage business and the enjoyment of honest people and as such as no social merit.

Did that help you understand?

A law that MIGHT work would be stiffer penalties for people caught using airsoft in the commission of a crime, if people start getting long sentences and hard labour (which is sorely missing from modern criminal justice) for these crimes it could have a deterring factor. Again this depends on the notion that desperate / criminal minded people would consider the repercussions of their actions.

Simple rebuttal if someone grabs for something hidden in a police confrontation do you think they're going to check it out or shoot to neutralize what is a perceived threat?

You could easily be shot for pulling out a banana from your coat pocket if the situation is tense and police are on high alert. And bananas last time I checked (if they're still fresh) are yellow or yellow and slightly green. It's not like the officer is going to be like "oh hes pulling out something yellow, it must be a banana". If it's even remotely gun shaped they will see it as a threat and neutralize the target.

Really this is more of a reactive solution than a proactive solution. And I'm a fan of being proactive and nipping small problems in the bud before they become a bigger problem over a reactive knee jerk solution.

EDIT: Note that this all came about as a result of some fecking 13 year old who was shot by police and the media and parents and stuff QQ'ing about it then lobbying for shit.

Blueicide is not something you can solve. Period. People making the judgment call to attempt to force police into killing them is something that if police where to delay their reaction even a milisecond then it puts honest officers lives at risk, which is unacceptable. And I consider anyone brandishing a firearm like object infront of police as self destructive behavior.

I may not agree with a lot the CBSA has to say about airsoft, but I strongly agree with this;
I don't think we have to worry...

I dont think a stricter law for people using airsoft guns in crimes is even a second guess in a criminals mind...

I just want to know something very simple here... the jobs, the money, california... all that aside...

are you against this bill because you dont want to play with a neon coloured gun? because thats what it all boils down to...

its not about whats fair, or irresponsible people ruining it for all us... its about changing the colour of our guns to look less real...

thats where I have the hard time defending, my personal enjoyment vs the peace of mind of the whole

...sorry for the double post - but I figured I may as well post the entire section of that memo..

Business goes down. Airsoft manufactures will sell to who? Their own country?

Infringing on the enjoyment of others for irrational peace of mind is not a worthy trade off. Your casual dismissal of addressing the root of the issue speaks volumes of your through process, although it may or may not work it at least attacks the problem in a way that will actually effect people whom violate the laws as oppose to effecting people who would abide by the law.


I was referring to potential loss of sales in Retail environments within California. Guns being bright pink might (or might not) turn off some customers.

@CR0M:

Why it's BS?
- Criminals can paint their guns in any of these bright colors to reduce the likeliness of getting shot themselves. There has been robberies where real guns had orange tips.

- When you're living in CA, it's veeeery easy to travel 45mins to get into Arizona and buy your airsoft guns.

- The point of airsoft over paintball is at least 75% (varies depending on the individual) because of the realism. Bright colors takes it out.

- Cant be painted on - just like here kids buy clearsoft and paint them over... oh yes, kids should't do that. But they still do it anyway. Will it be the same in California? Yes.
Same for robbers. They'll just buy the clear one + krylon for 5 bucks more, and voilÃ*.

- It will cost many jobs. California has probably highest number of airsoft stores in the US plus the many airsoft-only fields or the paintball/airsoft fields that will see much less players because of the now total lack of any kind of realism

And again - CRIMINALS DON'T FOLLOW THE F!CKING LAW. If they go as far as robbing a store... do you really think that painting a clearsoft will give them a second though? I don't think so. They'll just paint their clearsoft and rob more people.

These are the first things that came to my mind I'm sure I could find many more.

I don't have any such problem. Peace of mind? It's not my problem if someone else is irrationally afraid of something they don't understand.

Of course, I own guns, so this kind of bullshit is just more of the same.

"They" say "I would FEEL better" if those were illegal.

I say "They haven't hurt you yet, what makes you think they ever will?"

And lastly, I'm a FIRM believier in natural selection. Given the constraints on our society today, about the only way we have left to weed out the fucking stupid and keep them from breeding is by letting them remove themselves from the gene pool.

Ok... so Canadians will possibly be affected by this because of a kidiot? Lovely

Even if the bill is voted, I don't think it would directly affect us. It would definitely set a precedent, which is bad for all airsoft players in North-America though.

IF the bill passes, it doesn't mean that Canada will look at this and say "Hey look, Calif did this, we'll do the same tomorrow!" If there's really people in the government looking into the airsoft situation in Canada, they'll probably wait a bit and see the costs/results to such a law. Chances are they realize it's not really worth it. Where the problem lies is that they still will be able to use this as a lever for their own schemes and machination to bring down airsoft in here though, which is bad, obviously.

Well, as long as they make the Pink guns full metals anyways with the same quality... let's just say Krylon's shares will go up a bit :D

Those that have been involved with airsoft for more than a couple of years will remember when the situation in Canada was MUCH worse than that (no airsoft guns allowed, regardless of the color) and yet we still got full black guns and the community still flourished into what it is today.

From a vet's perspective the Get-A-Grip factor here is pretty high.

I hate playing devils advocate on here, i always get flamed out...

Anyways, the whole "guns havent hurt u yet why would u be afraid of them" is like saying theres bears in provincial parks but they havent hurt you yet so why be afraid of them?

Sure u can take the proper steps to ensure your safety, but id rather have peace of mind that no bears were in the park...

My wife hates my airsoft guns, because they look real she says,

Im not saying i support the bill, cause i dont, its just a tough bill to argue against thats all i was saying

Carefull where that thought train leads. You're saying that something real should be restricted because of fears that it may be misused.

I'm saying that it will be misused one way or the other, and restricting an object only restricts it from those who wouldn't be inclined to misuse it in the first place. Those who are inclined to misuse it won't listen anyway.

To you bear analogy, I don't fear the bears in the park. I have a gun. If you had a gun, you wouldn't fear them either. Do you restrict the bear from being in the park, or prohibit the ability to protect yourself from the bear? Is the bear going to listen to your arguments that it's not supposed to be there?

If your wife hates your airsoft guns because she thinks they look too real, you have to ask why she hates guns in the first place. Then educate her on why those fears are irrational.

Guns kill people. So do cars. So do kitchen knives. She's not afraid of a kitchen knife, so why is she afraid of a gun?

Is it because "guns serve no purpose other than to kill?" Guns also prevent people from being killed. This is proven. Gun crimes are far more prevalent in jurisdictions that prohibit, regulate or otherwise restrict firearms.

As an author has shown in a book known as "Freakonomics" there are almost 100x more pool drownings than fire-arm related deaths each year. Do we prohibit swimming pools? Nope.

Guns just seem that more logical because of how people perceive them to be. More than 800,000 people die from cigarettes between the USA and Canada each year, yet I can walk into any depanneur and buy a 10 pack of Marlborough's after I flash my driver's license.

It's perfectly normal to fear the unknown. That's called being human.

Education tends to either mitigate or remove that fear entirely. I used to be completely scared of spiders. Then I did a project in grade four on spiders and I felt way better about them. Sounds stupid? Maybe, but it did change things.

This certainly sucks, though. The CA airsoft scene is pretty awesome, lots of good guys down there. I'd hate for this to happen.

So if I follow what you say, we should simply bannish any kind of airsofts in CA, clear as well, so we can stop criminals from painting airsofts for crimes? But again, they are still criminals, so nothing would stop them from finding a way to get airsofts, or even real firearms.

It's not an "Airsoft ban" like many are making it out to be. What it does is elevate realistically coloured airsoft guns to "imitation firearm" status, which means that in order to buy one in the state of California, you need to be able to prove that you're going to use it for regulated or certified sporting competitions. If you're out of state, you can still do business as usual with retailers, even Californian ones.

Explicitly, it modifies the list of items in California Penal Code section 16700 (b) to exclude BB guns.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/16700.html
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/20165.html

Their is a part in that bill that states that all currently owned Airsoft guns are allowed to remain in their current state, sort of like being "grandfathered". However, it specifically states that you are not allowed to use a "black" airsoft gun at any public field, or out in public. So it appears as though airsoft is now going to become a "collector" sport in California...

ha ya, so if thats the issue then just move on shop to nevada... problem fixxed...

so its basically going to be the same way it is here then... big woop

No, that doesn't fix the problem. Restricting legitimate, responsible owners because of an irrational conclusion does not make any sense and only stops those users from being responsible owners. Criminals will still do what they please, as they are criminals.

This isn't the Bluetooth-While-Driving Cell Phone law, which puts another hand on the steering wheel and actually will save a life or two. All this will do is make people less interested in Airsoft, have wide ranging impact on the culture down there. My understanding is it isn't all that difficult to get a glock down there anyways, so where are the bills and laws addressing that issue?

Fear should never, ever dictate the course of history. Every time it has, it has set us back as a species in many ways. This bill is a perfect example of a solution out of fear, not fact.

They eliminated that part of the bill.

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/241345

But if I lived in California, I could still use this.

http://craphound.com/images/hellokittyak47.jpg

Problem?

nobody cares about that in the gov. the more irresponsible, the more in need of governement supervision, the better.
And then irresponsibility of the minority becomes a good reason for over-regulating the majority.Welcome to the 21st century.

you guys all bring up very good points and I agree with you now,

I am open minded I just need to be shown

That's pretty much how I was. I was young and naive once but then I grew up and realized that politicians don't know shit and usually try to placate their voter base with pork barrel projects and shit like that.

I think the better solution is to strictly enforce 18+ purchasing (and supervision so that parents can't QQ about little Johnny taking out some other kids eye or getting shot at), and put stronger prosecution measures in place for misuse. Partly to scare the shit out of kids who do misuse them but you can't "rule by fear" alone you also need to put some sort of education in place about proper use and supervision and stuff. But like that's ever going to happen. The US is full of irresponsible trigger happy "cowboys" who QQ that the right to bear arms is in the Constitution, but don't always treat the firearms with respect like they should. The way I see it, they have the right to guns, but that doesn't include the right to be a retarded trigger happy "cowboy" who doesn't learn about proper handling, use, storage, etc.

I see this as another tax grab in the sense that finds will ensue to those possessing realistic colored airsoft guns. This is university stupid, people will paint them and then will be charged! This is one of the dumbest ideas I heard of in a long time and since it's governmental that's saying a lot! People custom paint their guns everyday of the week, parents just don't want to take responsibility for little Jimmy, they'd rather stick him in front of the tv and hope the hell he'll turn out alright; having pink or green guns (like in the UK) won't change a thing as to people buying them (sales will drop but people will adjust). 99% of airsofters are responsible people, why should the masses pay the price for the few. Make it simple, a crime committed with anything resembling a firearms (I don't care if it's a cardboard cutout!) should be processed as a real steel crime period rather than a slap on the wrist, people choose to commit crime and should be punished accordingly. Zero tolerance applies here, hell the system is corrupt enough as it is and it's a gracious waste of tax payers $$ to separate people based on what they used.....They made their choice so let them pay for the crime.

In the United Kingdom we had similar problems regarding the law. A group of Airsofters (players, site owners and retailers) lobbied parliament and we were fortunate enough (along with re-enactors) to gain an exemption. Basically our Airsoft Sites are now registered and if you play 3 times in no less than 2 months your card gets stamped and you receive an annual membership number. Once in possession of this number you are registered on a national database and are entitled to purchase RIF's (realistic imitation firearms) . This system works. If anyone wants to know more about this system please feel free to PM me.

As outlined here: http://www.airsoftuk.info/uk-airsoft-laws.html

Yeah.... another gun registery. Actually, besides the cost I agree with this method in Canada rather then the current replica laws that are in place.. Better would be to repeal the replica laws, but I doubt that will happen.

It's less a gun registry and more of a player registry. You don't have to register each RIF that you purchase; the closest it comes to that is entering in your UKARA ID number when you order your gun, which is supposedly only for validation purposes.

The California bill appears to be more preying in people's fear. The senator would not touch any bill against the real steel but would go behind one that is not? Sounds like he needs some attention.

Also, would there not be any stats in California comparing crimes committed with real vs airsoft or anyone killed between the two? It definitely would poke a hole in the Senator's balloon.

It's just more stupid shit from California, the left-most left-coast state.

We don't need laws to keep dumb people from doing dumb shit. Let them do the dumb shit, then take them out of the gene pool. Fuck, we didn't have HALF the stupid laws in place we do now when I was a kid, and the streets didn't run red with blood. Dumb kids hurt themselves or got hurt. Then they either learned not to be dumb or went on to a prosperous career of packing groceries.

I read about a study a couple of weeks back. It stated, essentially, that ADD and ADHD are linked to a lack of free play by children. By taking away the freedom for kids to self-regulate and make mistakes, we've broken a part of their brains in the formative years that allows them to FOCUS on things.

Like, FOCUS, as in PAY ATTENTION to RISK and be prepared to REACT. Why bother, when all the risks are removed?

Let your kids play with chainsaws, plastic bags and car batteries in the bathtub. If they live through it she'll be fucktons ahead of the curve.

For those that care, the bill was voted down in the Public Safety Committee yesterday 5-2.

Man I LOL'ed at that last bit but damn is it ever true.

Also I agree totally it will effect those who obey the law, the criminals and such will still find ways to commit their crimes.

Wasnt there a guy who got off real easy for arme drobbery cause he didnt use a "real" gun, it had a blaze orange tip and wasnt recovvered so the video was taken as showing the "replica" he used? Prolly a real gun painted, I mean if you wer going to use a replica youd prolly want it to look as real as posible thus painting the orange tip black no?
Who knows anyhow they went out to commit an "armed" robbery so their thought process is likely a lil wonky.

I feel sory for the Cal airsofters hope they get this worked out, or I hope they enjoy their hello kity guns lol.
YouTube - ‪pink hello kitty plr-16 silencer suppressed plr16 keltec kel-tec suppressor 223 5.56x45 gun handgun‬‏

guess i should have finnished reading lol
good to know they got some brains over there lol

But its up for review in August after a rewrite!

damn SOB's lol
more hello kitty goodness lol
YouTube - ‪Hello Kitty gun‬‏

Music to my ears.

And I agree Mad. I didn't wear a helmet when I was on my scooter, fell off, hurt my head and decided to wear a friggin helmet. My mom didn't tell my senator to ban all scooters. Sigh, kids these days with their hippy attitudes toward every problem.

De Leon has another go at it posted for 5 July this summer. It's a tactic used regularly to insure the minimum amount of votes are cast because lawmakers are on vacation. Because of this it has a good chance of passing.

Quoted for awesome sauce and truthiness.

The possible new face of airsoft in USA: http://www.galtsguns.com/NeosGlock/usabatglock1.jpg

oh wait it's real, guess nothing's going to be absolutely no change in how cops deal with people brandishing colourful guns huh?...

Did it pass?

No, it didn't pass committee. But it's still alive and well in another form. You can follow along here:

http://www.airsoftsafetyfoundation.org/

Actually, it passed reconsideration on Tuesday July 5. The future of the bill now up to the State Assembly.

Good riddance.

http://airsoft-guns-blog.pyramydair....d-passage.html

Personally I think it looks like more standard American politics. In light of recent events involving the governor, it may be a power grab. At that level it's not likely worth the tax dollars. Registration, regulation and such for something like this wouldn't turn a profit. This is simply some ass-hat, trying to build a political platform to gain support. The whole look of which is the usual, "I'm making things safer, and fighting crime". Good for you to attack something you know nothing about. However the California crime issues may be, this won't help. My political support is based off how many people I can make afraid, or think I'm actively doing something useful. Lol, what a joke.

In Canada however, things started out strict, and slowly goes the other way. As our sport grows and the community realizes what it is we do, things have only improved. However slight. Truth be told airsoft guns aren't deadly. You can take someones eye out, but unless you use it as a club you won't kill them. It is fairly easy to get a .22, or a pellet gun from say; Canadian tire that shoots tipped metal rounds. In this great country, any peron(s) using an object that simulates, replicates, a gun in anyway criminally will be charged as if it is a real firearm. This is a law that I personally support.

Now we've all heard the stories. I.E. The kid who held up his school with an airsoft gun, or someone robbing a store with one. Just a couple years ago a few punks in Bow Island, AB where arrested for shooting people from their car. Tell me please did it make a difference what goddamn color the guns were? Nope, none. The only way this has ever made any sense is clear, or smoked receivers. But even that only applies to importing, so the border can identify it as "not a firearm". To be perfectly honest though, if they don't like it; it doesn't come into Canada, period.

The argument on public safety isn't relevant, as the only way to get killed by an airsoft gun is to commit a crime with it. But getting blown outta your socks by a peace officer is something you had to be asking for. I would hate to see the police put in those situations. But color, real, not real, clear, ...whatever, has no affect on the end result of a persons choices. I could carve something out of wood and spray paint it, and at twenty feet it would look real enough.

Public peace of mind is a strange way to go with an argument, though. My wife, neighbor, or whoever has an issue with my airsoft guns seems to forget that my other neighbors owns real guns. Legally I might add. Someones unreasonable, uneducated feelings or fears can't be considered. You'd think they'd teach basic gun safety in the school system, lol. It is hard not to laugh when some thug is pointing a gun sideways. We are the airsofters though, so we should explain the dynamics to those closest to us. Same as my father did when my step mother had an issue with real guns. Bright colors don't put peoples minds at ease, knowledge does.

Canada is famous for laws that affect the innocent. Nothing like a big, warm, fuzzy blanket that covers everyone. Of course ruining things for the rest of us, and not deterring idiots or criminals in the slightest. So I said to the police officer "You don't need to look at my airsoft gun, as it's painted bright green. Obviously sir, that means it can't be a real gun". Give me a break, lol. He'd laugh at you while plugging two in your chest. So thank god they brought in that bright color airsoft law. So now when I have to disarm, or shoot someone; it's funny.

This sport has always brought up safety issues, as well as legal ones. Really though, we aren't a threat. I had a women walk up to me and ask if a terrorist could use his airsoft training against military. Lol, really? But all joking aside; we do have a responsibility to respect the law. And continue to promote this sport honorably.