ARES M4 SIR-M VS G&G M4 Commando Max. Opinions?
 

Hello, I'm planning to pick up my first AEG and I have narrowed it down to the ARES M4 SIR-M or the G&G M4 Commando Max.

Does anyone have any experience with these guns? I haven't been able to see either close up in real life so your opinions are greatly appreciated.

I'm leaning towards the G&G M4 Commando simply because it is more the style I like however I have read mixed reviews about G&G products, then again the same goes or ARES.

The main concern is that I need to be able to change the FPS for indoor/outdoor games. From what I understand ARES is known for being very easy for spring swaps and G&G is not. I watched videos on how to swap springs on a different models for both ARES and G&G.

Do you guys think a new guy will be able to learn to swap out the G&G M4 Commando spring without wrecking the gun?

Any opinions on either of these guns is greatly appreciated.

if you are new, and want to swap springs....just get the ares

At first glance I'd go for the G&G, but you mentioned the bit about changing the springs. Although Ares has the quick spring change system, they are known for unreliability, and some of their parts are proprietary, meaning tough to upgrade. How often do you plan on changing springs? Constantly opening guns up is not ideal, as they do wear down faster with screws taken out etc... Also someone makes a VVD piston for like $80, so you can change your fps very quickly without opening up the gun. However, I've never used them and don't know how well they work.

Ares sucks big hairy ones when it comes to post-sales support and parts...not just a little bit either. A LOT!!! I wouldn't wish that on an enemy. Go for the G&G.

If the quick spring change feature is a must for you go with an ICS AEG. Otherwise forget about G&G and grab yourself a nice VFC or Classic army.

get the G&G max. i got 2 and they are great. forget the spring swapping. just buy two guns. If you cant afford a second gun then get a second job and support the economy. china is about to feel the economic crunch and they need you to buy two guns. there is another thread, i cant find it right now, and wow the are burning the Ares with their crap internals.

Thanks for all the replies. Buying 2 guns would ideal however as a full time student affording even one gun is hard. I don't think I would swap springs too often since indoor games are run at times I can make whereas I work weekends when outdoors are held. I did come across that thread about ares having bad internals and that scared me lol. I imagine with time I will be able to get multiple guns. The first purchase is so nerve racking :p.

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If you're looking to swap springs quickly, absolutely get an ICS, I didn't think of it before.

Go ICS, you can have two upper mechboxes, one calibrated for outdoor and the other for indoor. All it takes to swap is remove one pin and slide each one in or out.

I may be wrong but i thought i read something about ics storing the battery unit in the magazine or something. That would be undesirable.

All the retailers I have been looking at don't carry ics either I'm trying to buy local rather than order.

My AV should be going through some time soon guess ill have to check the classified forum to see what is available when it does.

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I think you're overthinking it, and overvaluing the ability to shoot harder. There's nothing wrong with firing 350 - 360 fps on a single gun, it'll be accurate and the rate of fire will be excellent (as well as taxing your internals less than 400fps+).

If you're on a budget and if you're still interested in swapping springs, just get the G&G and a spare spring. With the right care and maintenance, it's going to be a fantastic gun.

I've noticed many of the MAX models including an M100 replacement spring for free, so that would be perfect for you. It will by far have the best compatibility out of the suggestions here (ARES + ICS have a lot of proprietary parts and as you say it's going to be tricky to get those). G&G's V2 mechboxes are an absolute piece of cake to get into and put back together.

If you end up getting this gun, just post your spring swap/disassembly questions here and we'll throw resources /pictures / videos at you.

Hope that helps.

No. ICS guns don't store the batteries in the mags. That would be retarded. Speaking of retarded, the Ares grease gun has the battery in the mag while ICS is coming out with a version of the grease gun where the battery isn't located in the mag.

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ICS only has a few parts that is proprietary but not enough to make it bad like Ares. If the OP likes to have the quick spring change feature, ICS would be my suggestion. G&G gears aren't that great compared to ICS gear set. G&G's spur gear is a POS and the worst spur gear from a stock gun. With ICS, their gear set are solid and doesn't need to be changed unless you change motor.

Thanks for the correction, I'm very fuzzy on the ICS stuff but have run into a retailer that shuns it due to "incompatibilities". On the other hand, I subscribe to the channel of a gun tech on YouTube that has reviewed and fixed hundreds of guns and gave ICS the stamp of approval based on quality (as you seem to be).

I've been doing a lot of learning on V2 mechbox fixing/maintenance/upgrading lately and I'm curious, what parts of the actual mechbox would I have trouble with on ICS in terms of proprietary parts? Are they that big of a deal?

I'm intrigued by some of the stuff I've seen from ICS (the split gearbox, including MOSFET + control units in their newest stuff stock, etc), but still associate them with difficulty in the compatibility area until I learn more.

What's you indoor FPS limit?
Because if it's 350fps, just run your AEG at 345fps indoors and outdoors.
A prometheus MS100 spring will give you the exact fps you need, and upgrade your hop rubber to a guarder clear right away. You'll have great range and accuracy for like $30.

The problems with ARES are the use of a few proprietary parts, as well as a general reputation of having crap internals, and weak externals.

ICS seems to do their own thing for externals, I've heard of a lot of problems locally with people trying to upgrade to certain RIS systems. And their internals go by the 15yr old standard, so if you want any kind of compression, you'll have to replace all the compression parts right away. And their crane stock batteries work on the single most retarded system i have ever laid eyes on, instead of a coiled wire, they use brushes on a slide that runs the length of the stock tube. So if you want a crane stock batt model, you'll have to clean those contacts frequently, especially if you play in adverse weather.

G&G is the way to go. Although their externals are about as strong as TM plastic, it's still stronger than most clone pot metal. And their internals are actually TM spec, so that makes upgrading/fixing them way easier.

G&G is probably the best choice. It's like the Tippmann A5 or 98 of the airsoft world. Great starter guns and great mid level guns too.

Now granted I started off with a custom gun I bought off the classifieds but if I were to do it again today I would look at the G&G first then if I had a bit of money to step it up go with a King Arms or VFC. G&P I can't really recommend to new players unless they're willing to dump another ~$70 + labour (if mechanically inclined like an Engineer) or a gundocs time (average $20-25/hr for this service) to replace the stock gears with something that doesn't suck balls and shear off in the first like 5 shots.

PS: What ThunderCactus says is right. I was actually shooting at like 360 FPS on .20's for the longest time before I upgraded my spring to get ~400 FPS. The previous owner of the rifle had a bunch of quality upgrade parts in it (G&P hopup unit, helical gears, motor, and what I believe to be a Guarder black rubber). It shot straight and far on .28's outdoor. It was no PTW but it was definitely a lot better than people who just toss in an M120 into their gun and call it a day. All I did last month was put in a Tight Bore Barrel and new spring and it's a beastly laser.

Go with an M100, a quality Tight Bore, and maybe a Madbull hop up unit (comes with bucking) (or I like Prometheus hop ups and buckings) and you can have your own indoor and outdoor beast of a rifle.

The indoor limit is 320fps and outdoor is 425fps.
Since I am new I these number mean little to me, I can't imagine 320 cutting it for a 425 max but maybe I dunno.

I thank everyone for the input. It looks like I'm going with the G&G M4 Commando, which in the end was the one I was drawn to so that's good.

Now I just got to find one! My local store is out and my AV isn't up yet :(

My brother is also looking into the RS AK Type 56. ooooo that gun looks sooo nice, but Ill save that for another thread, another time :)

If it makes you feel better, I've seen 350fps guns out range 470fps sniper rifles.
You'd be REALLY surprised what kind of range and accuracy you can get out of a 320fps gun.
For example, I bought a STOCK marui P90, put a guarder clear hop rubber in it, threw in some .25s, and it was shooting really accurately out to 200 feet! Took the BB a while to get there, but it got there.

I suggest the Ares. I find that it's a good brand. My Ares G36 shot a 50 cm x 50 cm target at around 200 feet stock.

The internals were also good. Strong gears, a 7 steel tooth polycarbonate piston (very similar design the to the prometheus hard) and shimming and greasing out of the box was quite good. Air seal was ok, but after a new nozzle it is perfect.

The comparison is between M4s, not G36s.
There are fundamental differences in the two than inherently make the G36 more accurate.

And I've taken apart an ARES G36 before, absolute nightmare to work on. Never working on another one ever again.

Good point, I actually have no idea how the Ares M4 stacks up.

I've found it extremely easy to work with. Easy takedown to the gearbox and the quick change spring guide allows reassembly to be a piece of cake. Internal parts are of excellent quality too.

excellent quality as compared to what?