Best soldiers ever?!?
 

Hi,

Just started reading the following book: The Face of Courage from Stackpole

It basically the 98 Germans soldier (out of 19 millions with axis country) of WW2 who "won" the Knight Cross AND the Close combat Clasp in gold for 50 days of close combat fighting (IE fighting up close and personal).

I can t think of more "hardened" modern troop then these soldiers (and officers). Alike to Rudel the fly boy... The sergeant from Pacific (can t recall his name) who got the MoH and the NAVY cross (after dying on Okinawa). Knispel panzer wise!

In any case, very good reading so far for WW2 enthusiasm!

Here's a related book for you;

Amazon.com: Devil's Guard (9780440614234): George R. Elford: Books

The account of an SS soldier's escape from the eastern front after the surrender of German forces to the Soviets, and his enrolment in the French Foreign Legion and service in French Indo China.

The French created a whole "SS Brigade" of former German SS soldiers to fight their dirty war for them in Vietnam, riveting reading actually, some brutal stuff like strapping villagers to the front of their vehicles IOT not get attacked while on patrol.

I think the Sgt. from the Pacific you are referring to is John Basilone.

- I was at the USMC Museum in Quantico Va. last summer, they have a pretty big display on him including his Congressional Medal of Honor on display. It was pretty impressive to see.

Those Devil Guard books are fiction/untrue as well it doesn't seem that there actually was a "SS Brigade" or Brigade of Germans(Wasn't just former SS joining) in the FFL. As well, not all former German Soldiers who served in the FFL or attached units were W-SS, a number came from Heer units, etc. Also, not all SS Soldiers who served in the FFL were German, some were French, etc

Anyways, Long Bong, trust me there are some very "hard" Soldiers, Marines, Sailors and Airmen now a days. As well, why is the titled Best soldiers ever?!? There is no #1 all are outstanding in their own right.

Hollywood

Hence the s to soldiers :)

I can t of think f anything close to what these soldiers did in modern time.

Maybe courage would be more appropriate then best.

Bong

History is full of great soldiers, most never become famous or get a lot of medals. It's true a lot of SS joined the french foreign legion, not as a unit but as legionnaires in different units.

Here's one that's interesting, not just by himself, when you read is history you get a glimpse of other great men that were conveniently forgotten by history or should I say forgotten by Hollywood.

This guy served in the finnish army, trained with the german SS, enroled in the US army, joined the Special Forces, MACV-SOG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni

Read anything from Stephen Ambrose. If you have just seen the mini-series but not read the book, read Band of Brothers, or any of the other books by the guys in Easy Company. Huge admiration for that generation of citizen soldiers.

Soldiers now dont have the same opportunities as in WWII. In which recent war can a pilot go out there and knock out over 500 tanks?

Read House to House by David Bellavia, gives a glimpse of one Soldier's fight in Fallujah. As well books about Canadian Soldiers on TF 1-06 and 3-06 in some large battles with Taliban/AQ. Number of other books out there about troops who fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. As well, thousands+ stories that are unwritten/published, etc Been some very hard fighting, sacrifice, bravery, hardships, etc in every war. WWII wasn't the end all be all of "hard" combat. Lots of respect to the veterens, and what they did was remarkable, but IMO they are no better or worse then Soldiers of any other period.

Not sure about what it mean by best soldier, as for me any men and women who serve and sacrificed their life for its purpose or country are damn best soldier and deserve our respect.

I agree, the word best is not the best for this topic!!!

I ll check how the author describe them once home

Bong

Close combat clasp:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_...combat_bar.htm

Bong

Cool fact is that the German "Nähkampfspange in Gold" or the Close-combat Clasp in Gold, was kept in higher regard among frontline veterans than the Knight's-Cross.

This book is very high up in my list to read.

To quote the book (Foreword):

The soldier, who received both decorations (Knight Cross and Close Combat Clasp
in gold) is a member of an absolute elite. These decorations document, on the
one hand, a singualr, supreme act of bravery - one that was decisive at the
local level for an engagement or even a battle - and the other, for the
demonstration of constant, uninterrupted bravery, in some cases over month and
years.

Regarding the Knight Cross (again from the book):

In contrast to the British Victoria Cross, the MoH, and Heroe of the Soviet
Union, a candidate for the Knight Cross had to have proven his bravery
repeatedly before the ennemy. Singular feats of arms or battlefield performance
were not normally considered. Thus, for instance, an otherwise "ordinary"
infantryman who had suddenly destroyed seven tanks during a single day of front
line combat service, could reckon with the award of the Iron Cross First class.
Both Iron Cross were prescribed for the later award of the knight cross.

The word "best" is not the best one to describe these 98 soldiers (out of 19
millions who fought for the Axis). In no way reducing what Soldiers from other nation did (or do), the condition in which the Germany found himself in WW2 (multiples front, overwhelm in manpower and material, long conflict, etc) makes these individuals really stick out IMO.

Rudel was no "BOY". I suggest you read his book. He was shot down, destroyed literally hundreds of tanks without guided munitions, landed behind the lines to rescue downed pilots in a Stuka, and actually destroyed a Battleship. You need to research him before calling him a boy, and he survived the war. He deserved every medal he got.

Flyboy is a general expression for pilot, in no way intending on reducing Rudel reputation :)

And i did read about him, he even landed behind ennemy line to rescue a fellow pilot and made it back to the german line by foot. He could not use his leg at the end of the war but still flew support mission in a ju57 (plane type that was operationnal in 1939...). They had to create a new level of the knight cross for all of his accomplishment!!!

Bong

"Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down."

But I think Erich Hartmann's 352 air to air victories are more impressive.

Let keep it on the ground with the grunts :)

Bong

WW1 is often forgotten about, because Hollywood loves WW2. Canadians held the front lines in a cloud of mustard gas when everyone else had run away. I'm going to agree with the general feeling here that any solider is the best soldier.
That being said... think about 2000 years ago when men stood toe to toe and hacked each other to death with sharp tools. There wasn't any casualty count below 100%, because if you lost the fight your troops were more than likely killed almost to the man. Those that weren't killed outright were made slaves or tortured for their religious beliefs. By comparison, war today is a civilized business.

Ww2 eastern front was far from civilized... close to a genocide in the wake of the advancing army

Bong