Questions about hosting events
 

I've been eye-ing some abandoned places down in Hamilton and Toronto areas to host a zombie role-playing event and I've narrowed it down to a couple locations. My inquiry is the types of things I should consider like insurances, theft protection on equipment because renting guns for the event is included, if anyone in the Hamilton area would like to lend a hand and just general dos and donts of these kinds of events,

Also, if you've hosted zombie related events or attended one, some descriptions of the event and preparation would be greatly appreciated.

You're about to get several dozen replies on the legality of this. The short answer is that you will not be able to use that "abandoned" land.

Shortest of the answers, that land is NOT abandoned simply not used, big difference. The land could be held by the city, development company,offshore owner just for a start.

Bylaws most likely do not allow for discharge of any thing vaguely resembling a gun, including bb, pellet, bows of any type and even nerf in some places.

Even assuming that the city would allow you to use airsoft in that manner good luck getting the property owners permission if you can find them.

Lastly zombie games are fun for the shooters and lousy time for the zombies unless they are very well planned and thought out. Think weeks not hours of actual planning and writing.

I have and will be spending weeks of preparation work. Of course the locations are not truly abandoned just vacant at the time, I will be willing to pay if the location proves well on a monthly basis or a portion of the property taxes they pay. Also getting covered with insurance doesn't hurt as well, so that will be a must. The zombies in this event will be paid staff and the players need not to play zombies unless they desire. I just need ideas on locations within Ontario that would allow such an events.

You will need the following just to get started.

1) Full insurance for the property, this requires the property owner for a green light.
Policy minimum would need to be 1 million general liability coverage or more for any insurance company to touch it, not to mention insurance specifically for "airsoft" which is not common, so start hunting now. This is not cheap, so start getting ready to put away thousands to cover your overhead.

2) If any by-laws are present (and rest assured, they will be). You may be boned regardless.

3) Local authorities need to sign off on your activity. This typically requires a proposal + inspection of the property.

4) Township or the City requires a proposal and inspection of the property, they will determine if you need to apply for any permits for the event.

5) Emergency services such as Fire need to be made aware of what you are doing.

6) lots of other stuff....

7) Could always host the game in Cherno.

Hope that helps!

Would give up now m8.

Maybe aim for something outside the city limits. old town warehouse or farm. As for in one of the major cities. Never. Unless you full on rent. than you may as well open oyur own indoor CQB field.

Now, where would the world be if everyone just gave up at the first speedbump takagari? Thank you c3sk for the concise list, it is greatly appreciated and helpful. I would be open to locations outside city limits also. I will start hunting for insurance companies that has a niche in airsoft and research some by-laws related to the events.

I know in the UK there are such events like this one, so what I'm proposing to do is to shine the light on zombie survival games over to Canada.

P.S Where is Cherno??

I would host in Elektro more people there then Cherno. IMO.

Well you don't need to give up. but I hope you've got 10k or more sitting around to front. not too mention months of council meeting's. Fighting with the by-law officers.

It's been looked into lots of times before in many cities.

Very few will sign off easily or cheapily to allow people to fire "Unregistered Firearms" which remember. Is exactly what your going to be doing. Within city limits.

not to mention notifying and clearing with all the adjacent inhabited neighboring buildings/communities... last thing you want to happen is swat to show up with the real deal shock and awe because some pedestrian out walking their dog saw someone with their AEG on the gaming premises.

No one has mentioned plan B yet.

That's where you partner up with an established site and put your scenario on there.

This isn't the first speedbump. It's like a minefield already filled with potholes.



10k might cover the insurance and a few other minor things. Not much else.

Try like 100k or at least a few 100k.

Id recommend you actually attend a couple of events and volunteer to help the host before jumping into hosting yourself

Wait you've beer hosted your own cheaper ops yet?

Small steps young padawan

@lurkingknight -people walking out of the premise with AEG would not be possible as they would not be allowed to bring their own weapons to the event

@Danke -Yes I've thought about that option as well but the few I've looked at would not suit the type of environment that I am seeking. But I will not rule it out.

@Styrak - Of course money is always an issue with these things but, I'm trying to also estimate the amount of capital I'd have to raise. This is would not be a setback.

@Brian McIlmoyle - Yes I was planning to do that as well to see how each host operates their events

@takagari - No I have not yet hosted my own op yet because I found out using airsoft weapons over lasers and paintballs for the event suited the need for realism I was seeking. I do realize I have much to learn which I plan to do more of.

Does anyone have horror stories from failed events so that I can learn to avoid one?

There goes about 90% of your target audience, not really interested in using a rental gun, in lieu of attending other events with their own hard earned and modified to suit cold-steel in hand. Seems like you are trying to apply a 'paintball model' to your business plan. It won't work - two different beasts. Having a few rentals available to give to new walk-ins off the street would make sense, but basing your business model on all rentals, may or may not see you bankrupt in terms of either/or time and money in short order, as you try to keep the relatively fragile (as compared to paintball markers) AEG's operational.

My target demo was not the hardcore airsoft users but is intended for zombie fans who want to immerse themselves in a fictional fantasy setting. I just came here to ask questions and sort out the relative things that I need to accomplish because airsoft equipment will be used as weapons. So I assumed the laws and regulations would be related to this event. I'd like to give a shout out to all the zombie fans on this forum also! Although I'm relatively new to the airsoft scene, I'll definitely fall in love with it as I work more closely with them :p

There is an event in California or Washington State that does this regularly, using paid actors as zombies (with eye protection) and a few players pay (lots of money) to go in a survive an "apocalypse." The name of the facility/event escapes me at the moment, but I'm sure you can google a result or two.

They can give you logistical information, I bet. Legally speaking, though... this is a whole different ballpark.

that is a little more info
 

But realistically you really end to understand airsoft better, you are basically outside the sport and I suspect outside the firearms community as well.

But for starters you are looking at rental guns so about 11 guns 10 rentals + 1 spare. Full stocks for maximum battery size so AK or M16.

11 Guns plus 1 battery each call it 4400.00 Not top of the line but not cheap either. So you get about 4 years before significant breakdown if our field is any example.

11 paintball masks, you are renting and paying the insurance here so another 400 to 500.

Insurance I have no idea but lets say 250.00 / month

Property, I don't know about your part of the world but out on the west coast you would be looking 4000 to 5000 and month for a good sized warehouse space.

That would be the high side a group here used to rent and old crappy worn out ferry and that was 2400/ month

So be fair called 3500 / month space and utilities.

So initial investment call it 9000.00 assuming all permits etc can be obtained.

Now how much do you really think you can charge per person, if you go with 50.00 for a 6 hour day all bb's and equipment in that is 500 / day

7 days pays the rent call it 8 with taxes phone etc. That leaves 1 to make money. This is assuming weekends only, if you run nights etc you can do better.

The #1 big issue how big is your audience and how often will they play at 50.00 a pop. I am thinking not big or rich enough. Even airsoft groups have a hard time getting a regular crowd out 8 days a month and that is at 10 or 12 bucks a head.

Your target is not us than. You won't find many willing to rent you cheap crappy guns. And I don't think you have looked into the cost of supplying rentals.
You talk to us like your the first person to look into this.
I fully explored the ideas through Winnipeg and went to the by-law departments and insurance. It was not a feesible option without 50k to drop up front.
Let's not forget how much you'd need to invest in advertising jsut to get word out. Seeing as how you provide the weapons. You have pretty much pushed ALL ASC members away from coming. So if that's your plan, I'd get that idea out of your head.
As for
Your not understanding the concept of the law... You'll be runing a business. Not a secret underground club. Gun laws don't say crap about transporting the rifle from your car to a building or vise versa. The laws are based on discharging a firearm within city limits. In a building of your own or not.

Too clarify, in most city's people firing airsoft rifles in their basement for practice etc. Are actually breaking firearm laws. It's just not something you can enforce.

If our serious. I would stop looking for anything until you have spoken with by-law officers to find out how hard this is too get permission for. And what they will charge you for a license (trust me, it won't be free).

Good Luck

Sorry but that's your worst idea yet.

Alright well come back and post when you have 100k. Until then, I don't have much faith.

@Janus - Yes there is one event in the UK that uses an abandoned mall also which I'm trying to emulate as well minus the abandoned mall called Zed Events

@dirtbag - your evaluation is appreciated, insurance premium would be higher since we are not baking cupcakes, guns will be gbb pistols for extra realism so the gas would be more expensive. How big was the ferry??

@takagari - I never said anything about having cheap crappy guns did I? Nor did I assume I was the first person to look into this subject matter with Canada's tight regulations. I'm also sorry for pushing all the ASC members away as well with the notion of denying them of their guns. I will look into alternative actions to satisfy that option.

Well to be honest. You came on here for opinions. Your getting honest ones. If you'd like only sugar coated responses. Please say so and we will all be sure too tell you your ideas are great.
Pistols would be easier to allow own use. Since most are standard an don't wry much in fps. Expensive up keep for constant use.
200 per pistol. Plus 30-50 per mag.
Add in 30 per best. 30 per helmet and another 30 per mask. You be averaging close to 400-500 per person per setup.
With your over head. You'll need to charge 30 a person to stay reasonable and get people to return.
So say you'll need 30 per game. That's 12-15 grand in gear. Without accounting for spares and other supplies like bbs.

So 900$ per game. Say a 5 hour game. You'll loose 100 or so to pay your refs at least 2 of them.

Than again. You need to personally go look at permits and insurance. Those is all mute if your insurance is going to run 400 a month and permits another 200 or more???
Let's tack rent and utilities in there for a decent warehouse at say. 5000$ a month. Just to even it out. Let's say ammo rent insurance etc pegs you at 6000$ not including initial purchases. Etc.
You would need to run 10 games a month at full cap to break even.

To manage that you'll be spending 1000 or more a month on advertising. So now u need 12 games a month.

But again. All complete waste without knowing what insurance and local permits will cost ya!

Why do you think it's $30-$40 a game at xt....overhead is huge.

True. And xt has been around a while. And is in a small building in comparison.

My understanding is that it'll be a few survivors vs a horde of zombies; so the traditional airsoft equipment list for 15-30 players doesn't really apply. The biggest drain would probably be paying actors/makeup artists though.

I'm not sure everyone 100% understands your concept.

Pipe dream thread moved to the Newbie Tank.

Nevermind paying refs, someone's gonna have to pay the "horde of zombies" if they aren't players. Plus makeup and protective gear for the Zs.

@OP: what you seem to be overlooking is the European event is drawing 200+ paying participants for their events. If you're really serious about this (and that's a big IF cuz we see a metric assload of people come through here with big ideas that never evolve beyond a 10 page thread on the forum) you need to stop, read what's been said here very carefully and rethink your plan in a big way.