Ultimate Airsoft Weapon...NOT a regurgitation:
 

Hi everyone!

Just a quick note to ask everyone what the prime characteristics of the absolute, ultimate airsoft gas powered weapon would be. What I'm looking for are the functional characteristics of what is important to the airsoft community. Please try to exclude names of any particular manufacturer or brand. There is a reason I'm asking this question...I have a full CNC shop and casting company available to me, a 14 year old shelf company and am looking for my next entrepreneurial adventure. Further, I'm looking to create the next best thing to airsoft here in Canada!

So, please, chime in and contribute to the development of the worlds finest, airsoft, gas powered fun.

I'm not sure you'd find much success in your business endeavours aside from making custom parts and accessories as constructing anything to do with the lower (restricted) receiver may land you in legal hot water.

Having that said, and provided that your company has fully understood the legal complications of manufacturing firearms - are you planning on developing a completely new system, or building on top of one (WA/WE/KJW) with custom enhancements?

If you can develop a gas rifle that can shoot sustained full auto without an external air setup, while maintaining reliability, realism, and affordability - you will corner the market, but this is common sense. Stick with building rifles that aren't currently covered by manufacturers. AFAIK, there hasn't been an actual M249 or LMG (aside from Daytonagun kits) made with a gas system yet.

Here's a good idea of what you'd need to make.
The most realistic of all airsoft guns - YouTube

The legal ramifications are well understood and we do not minimize the impact onerous legislation, fees, inspections and licensing would have on the retail value if the finished product. That said, it remains a viable option for us should the demand present itself.

In the mean time, imagine a customized set of modular improvements to the existing platforms. Even more important, imagine these coming with a warranty of sufficient scope. We feel certain that this service and product offering would be a monumental leap forward in demonstrating what we are capable of, what service and support looks like and what accuracies can be achieved with a 6mm spherical ball.

Thank you for your thoughts and keep them coming!

And again...

Not looking for anything other than the functional and performance characteristics of an airsoft product that would be well received by the community. This may take the form of accessories or as a whole system. The purpose of this thread is to discern that distinction.

Thanks again!!!

One of the biggest issues with gas guns is magazine reliability.

Build mags that don't leak and people will beat a path to your door.

After the little trick bits that let you attach lights, slings, and optics to both the more common rifles and the out in left field ones.

Really? You have to ask?

Reliable, durable, accurate,

And of course inexpensive.

Huge +1 to a new mag design that doesn't leak, particularly in adverse weather conditions (basically colder than 15C and warmer than 35C). I know there are enough WE users in Canada to warrant this.

Nothing worse than having your camp attacked first thing after a freezing shivery night, and finding out your mags have lost most of their gas when you try to return fire and have to make 3 mag changes in a row, lol.

Even with all the equipment given to you to build such an airsoft gun, you still need to design something of the sort. Unless you are trained and are Familiar with all the different gas systems that are available in the market right now right down to the core, you are so going to have a hard time creating such a gun.

Its obvious what sort of characteristics one needs in a GBBR. In terms of reliability it needs to be on par with an AEG. Since cool down is a huge factor in creating inconsistency with the power of shots in an GBBR. As Brian mentioned, Durable, Accurate and Reliable are the MAIN things that a GBBR needs.

Another thing other than NON leaky mags is super durable mags strong enough to be abused through dropping on the ground for example.

this is just my opinion.

Something that runs CO2 filled mags with a built in regulator.

Lets up the ante a bit, CO2 powered shells that eject after each round is fired

Hello field sweep after a game :D

And the crazy price too! :P anyways the shell ejecting guns seems to be more a novelty than anything else as it makes them hardly fieldable due to the price of the shells and odds of loosing them

gmeyer, you and i should talk sometime during the week. i have some designs that might interest you.

reliable: consistent performance - shot to shot consistency. bolt catch should never fail to catch on last round. mags should not leak, ever. feeding from mags should never be a problem.
durable: 10k+ cycles without failure. components should not destroy one another.
accurate: mechanical operation/BB flight path.
practical: a system inside the bolt that can adjust the power output to the BB/barrel, while maintaining consistent cycle operation. the adjustment needs to be done with a tool that is part of the carrier, and not some ridiculously long and impractical allen key hybrid that scratches the barrel. (i have a working prototype of such a system)

a CO2 mag with internal regulation should be easy to do. the design would have to be different than current cast/cnced mags. two chamber system - one for the CO2 cartridge, and the second for an expansion reservoir with a regulator in between the two.
the valve lock (keeps the mag's main valve open) should be part of the lower valve striker group, not on each mag. should reduce the cost of the mag a bit. the mag it self does not need to be made of solid metal to withstand impacts from being dropped. make the mags light by using polymers for the inserts, and only use metal where high pressure gases are routed.

designs i have, crude prototypes i have made and have tested. i lack the capital and equipment to produce a viable product.

This is fantastic!

To those of you with a great idea (or many) that you would like to share, please feel free to post it here or, if you would prefer some security, PM me with the idea. I can assure you that you will be protected under a non disclosure agreement. Further, should your idea make it to reality, we have a very straightforward royalty agreement.

What is really encouraging is the fact that this is beginning to seem like the solution(s) will come from the wealth of knowledge within the community.

AWSOME stuff folks!

The use of quality metals, everywhere. It seems more manufacturers are using steel or machined aluminum the receiver and barrel (the externals), this is key as pot metal just has a cheap and brittle feel to it. However most companies still make the trigger group from pot metal instead of steel, why??? These parts take large amounts of abuse and are likely to be the first thing to break (that or something on the bolt carrier). If you use high quality metals for the entire construction of the gun, or DON'T use pot metal anywhere, would be a big plus in my books.

Keep in mind, electric recoil rifles are getting better each day. Although they still have a long way to go, they are certainly catching up. Take a fully upgraded Tokyo Marui So com/Sopmod/Scar for example. The few things they don't have over the gbbrs includes the fact that 2 bb's still drop free after each mag change, and the recoil still isn't quite there yet. Real Sword toyed with the idea of a magnetic blow back, but put he project on hold. Anyways, just something to think about.

What about a GBBR that would use a electro-pneumatic system (sort of like high end paintball markers) with a built in regulator.

That plus refillable C02 mags (Instead of using those stupid catriges).

my 2 cents

the problem with refillable CO2 mags is that they would have to undergo CSA testing and certification to be sold in Canada. the cartridges them selfs are already certified and have built in safety features.

electric recoil guns though an improvement over regular AEGs, are still AEGs at heart and still have its short falls. nothing beats the trigger response of a gas gun. the whole dynamics of a gas gun are far closer to that of a real firearm, and AEGs just can't substitute that feel.

Gas Operated Support weapon. 4 words. thats really all thats on my mind.

if we got a gas operated m249, gas in mag would be awesome.

Maybe not start out with something so complex and tweaky
You could build parts to fix problems on current/popular rifles
Like building M14 style hop chambers for M4s ;)

Ok...I have often found that if I reduce the complexity of the challenge and break it into bite size chunks, the process goes a little smoother. With that in mind, lets pretend that we are starting with an M4/M16 variant. To further reduce the complexity, lets focus on the front end...everything forward of the upper receiver.

What characteristics are most desirable of the front end? i.e., floating/non-floating outer barrel, weight, rigidity, materials, accessory mounting, etc...

discuss...

Superlight handguards and rail systems are hot right now.

I prefer the solid feel of the bolt up style vs the more wobbly delta ring install.

How about cheaper alternatives to existing RA-Tech steel parts? I really don't feel like paying $100+ to import the parts from Asia to find that there might be workmanship problems.

I would say the most important par for any gun, not just the M4 would be to stick with the real steel, i.e. adapt everything from the trigger system (which on AR15 types is laughably simple) the barrel assembly.

On the front end part I would use a standard delta ring and handguard of a M4A1 to keep it as simple as possible, if you respect the normal dimensions (I'd take Madbull as a reference or a simply a real steel so I can put my stuff on it) of a the gun then people will be able to switch parts.
Also including a hop up system like WA. As painful as it may be to tweak it I like to have as much compatibility as can be.

An idea: FCC or Fight Club Custom is a company from Hong Kong that started out by making upgrades for PTW's, and now they're at the point where they can make an entire gun out of their upgrade parts.
Following their model wouldn't be a bad idea. Start off by making improvements and upgrades for already existing gas rifles, then eventually take what your innovations and throw them all into one gun.
Note that I don't mean simply reinforced parts...
Start with STANAG mags for the KJW platform. ;)

I was going to say something similar to this.

However, take a look at this: http://www.gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8091

Read through it, and maybe go on the same path he is?

If you do, I would definitely pay for a complete steel internal set for a WE GBBR :D

i have been following that thread from the start. he hasn't done any changes to the original design, he's just making copies of the parts out of better materials.
it's nothing more than a band-aid solution, and a more expensive one at that. nothing has been done to fix the issue with the side lock plate that holds the bolt in the carrier. though it may take longer to happen, the possibility of either the side lock plate, carrier or the back of the bolt braking is still there.
there is also to problem of the bolt wobbling around and hitting the gas port on the front edge of the bolt catch, when the carrier is all the way to the rear and the bolt is extracted from the barrel extension. thats why i only use plastic bolts in my gun. a metal bolt gets nicks on the gas port from striking the bolt catch, and then the rubber seal on the mag gets chewed up.

Nope.

Durability: we'd like to see a gas system that offers the realism of heavily actuating parts that doesn't beat up on itself ...high grade steel and extremely high grade polymers would be a good start ...maybe carbon fibre?

Air seal and hop-up: the two most important factors in BB trajectory. Allow for a large and extremely aggressive bucking system that easy to work on. Also a perfectly fit together parts and simple system that capitalizes on excellent air seal. Avoid AEG or old hop designs. Check out Systema's for a few ideas.

FPS valve: a no brainer would be an FPS control valve, so one doesn't need to be installed aftermarket.

Robust internal system: look towards the Systema PTW. Everything clicks together "perfectly". Moving bolt, hop-up system, etc.

Magazines: must have a clever seal system, and be reliable. Make them easy to clean, rebuild, etc; and not to wear out easily.

Gas system: make sure the gas system can handle everything from CO2, to green gas, and all heat tolerances and variables and still fire flawlessly.

Upgrade ability: a good gun is easy to disassemble, and doesn't contain any cheap or useless parts. It's nice to be able to quickly do a barrel swap or switch out the bucking.

Cost: cost will reflect the build, but I'd rather pay $1000 or more for a ridiculously good build than buying something where the company tried to save money.

Performance: if your going to bother making it durable, dependable, and reliable, them it must shoot outstanding as well.

Bells abd whistles: RA-Tech has made some good upgrades for existing systems, check out some of their ideas. Look into things like perfectly milled stainless steel inner barrels, etc.

so what going on with this thread? i sent the OP a PM and have yet to hear back.

wouldn't it be cool if thread number 3000

I prefer to call it "stupid reality".

Have been busy with life lately. Sorry for the delay in responding. This is the type of absolutely invaluable information that will help with our plans. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Please keep it coming.