High Performance Motors
 

So I've already burnt out a Lonex A1 in under a week. I thought it was just a lemon so I bought another, and this one is about to die too.

My current setup is a M120 spring, standard ratio gears, Gate MERF 3.2 and is powered by a 11.1V 25C Li-Po.

Does anyone run a similar setup and has a motor that hasn't burned out?

There's no way your motor should be burning out that fast. Your setup is pretty standard for most AEG's.

Maybe your motor is working too hard to pull the spring, have you checked your shimming?

I'd say your shimming is way too tight or you're electrical system is causing too much resistance. That motor will pull up to a M140 without a problem with standard ratio gears.

The gun was working with no problems using just the stock motor. I've double checked the shimming and wiring and they both seem fine to me. A lot of black residue comes off the motor brushes, and I've never seen that with any other motor.

http://www.imageshack.com/scaled/large/545/k8ko.jpg

I'm just looking for other comparable motors that I could try.

shs motors are pretty good. but I have 2 lonex motors into 20k rounds each now and no issues.

Seems obvious. Go back to using the stock motor.

Try and get these when they are back in stock:
http://www.shootercbgear.com/product...oducts_id=4417

They always get OOS REALLY fast though.

ChaoLi, Eagle Force, Tienly, KWA (surprisingly)
third time I've heard of a lonex motor wearing through brushes fast

Other source, but again oos.
http://www.ebairsoft.com/high-tech-t...01-p-3536.html

Some of the guys on asm have used the motor from dx.com and said its a pretty good one. It's a cheap acm neo one. If nothing else if it burns up you can use the can to make a frankentorque motor.
http://dx.com/p/long-high-speed-airs...g-motor-112910

If you're seeing more than normal of the carbon dust, then you're having too much resistance in your system. The carbon dust is caused by amps resistance, and too much amps will cause more burning which cause more carbon dust. Make sure your bevel gear is shimmed correctly to the pinion gear, as most people shim that gear incorrectly. Then check your battery and connectors. Best way to check for electrical resistance is to pull out the gearbox and install the pistol grip and motor. Plug in the battery and shoot in full auto. Feel around the wires and see what is getting hot. Then you'll have an idea on what could be the cause. The MOSFET could also be the caused too.

HKGhost, is that due to the AB feature?
I have semi related question i think. I have a buil with an m90 13:1 gears a swissed piston and pom head. Rest is all stock cyma crap.
Running the merf3.2, low resistance silver coated cooper wire and an 11.1 25c (30amp) and i notice if i shoot off a cplhundred rounds (and mp5 highcap) the grip gets prety hot. Lotta the shooting in semi. Shim job is good all round pushing round 30rps (still have to test for an accurate number).
Is this heat somewhat normal on a setup like this?
Should i expect to burn out a motor prety fast due to this heat build up?

Yes, the AB feature will wear out your motor faster than without it. Because of the AB, your motor will get really hot really fast in either a high speed or high FPS setup. I personally always disable or remove the AB feature when I can.

^+1
But if you have a really high quality motor, like an eagle force EF1300, they're much more reliable at high temps. Every time I bring the 249 out that grip damn near burns my hand off after laying down some really heavy fire, other than the comm turning pitch black from the arcing, the motors still in great condition after 3 years

I'll double check the bevel - pinion shimming. Since I didn't have this issue with the original motor, is it possible that the pinion gear isn't meshing well with the bevel gear due to it's shape? I'm running Modify gears, which meshed perfectly with TM, CA and Modify pinions, but the Lonex pinion seems to have teeth that are a bit thicker and that part seems to wear to become thinner quite quickly.

When did you buy the Lonex motor?

One two weeks ago, the other one I got last week.

Also, if the shimming was off, wouldn't the rate of fire be lower than 30 RPS?

The shape could be a factor, but it shouldn't wear out the motor unless it's way off. In that case, you'll never be able to get them to mesh. But running a bad shimmed bevel gear could cause the motor to work a lot harder. I've had no issue running the lonex motor with Modify gears, so that isn't the issue. As for rate of fire, you'll have a slower ROF, but if could be much faster if shimmed correctly. The A1 is a very high performance motor so getting 30 RPS is easy with a lipo.

The motor just burned out. I reinstalled the stock motor and tested the current, there is also no more black residue coming off. Is 14 amps normal? CA high torque motor, m120 spring, standard gear ratio, 11.1v 25C li-po.

That's normal.

So that would suggest the shimming and wiring is fine wouldn't it?

Depends. The pinion gear to bevel gear spacing likely aren't identical when you swapped motors.

I would say it's "good enough", but no way of saying whether it's optimal unless I have it in front of me.

And yeah what coach said.

Wouldn't swapping pinion gears be a solution?

Just did that, same problem. CA motor using Lonex pinion, works fine.

I would suspect that Lonex motor brushes have far higher carbon content than the CA ones. An acceptable RC motor has Silver content in the ~30%+ range. Silver is not cheap, I suspect that LONEX is getting brushes from a different source as their older motors don't appear to have these kinds of issues.

The other possibility is that the commutator is damaged or not manufactured smooth or round. less likely the armature could be just slight off from being straight, or the bearing / bushing that it sits on isnt seated correctly.

Their was a post by KOS MOS on where to find replacement motor brushes. If it's a more sever manufacturing defect you are SOL unless you want to DIY a fix

Some day ill get a comm lathe and y'all can send me your lonex motors for testing

I tried CA and Marui brushes on the motor and those burned out in a couple hundred rounds. Sounds like I got two crap motors in a row.

3rd time's a charm?

Honestly we've serviced two warranty claims in April/May on this issue. The replacement motors have been reported to be fine.

Probably just have shitty comms on them
Even systema PTW motors are reported to come with mostly egg shaped comms

I think there was a bad batch from lonex at some point, these motors are probably from that batch... a few people elsewhere have reported a similar issue so you're not alone.

I dont really do gunwork anymore, it's only really a special favour that I do. I am interested in looking at the motor if you are willing to send it to me. If you just are going to RMA it with the LONEX dealer (stealth) then don't worry about it.

With the info you provided, i'm leaning towards manufacturing defect with the hardware. Unbalanced armature, axle, bearing, or their brush springs are just too damn tight (possible but shouldn't be a problem).

If you have boneyard brushes and springs on a spare motor try that. and if problem persists it's definetly manufacturing.

Ask me about my "special favors" hahahaha

In all honesty, if the 3rd motor is proven to be fine in front of my face, I'd gladly buy it. These motors aren't exactly cheap, but I do love the 31 RPS I get out of them when they work.

In other words, if by any chance you'd let me bring my mechbox and test the motor before I buy, I'd be down.

They're both at a hobby shop at the moment, if the guy can't fix them then I'll just send them to you if you want.

What if I told you, that for $60-$85 you could have a motor that was guaranteed to be fucking awesome, and highly likely to last 3 years of hard abuse? O_O
Just because Lonex makes good parts, doesn't mean they make EVERYTHING good, it's all but impossible in airsoft for one company to do everything right.
Sure, they've got a good motor, it just occasionally munches through brushes like the cookie monster though mrs.fields cookies.
Systema made an amazing motor too, it just shorted through it's own end bell cause they didn't assemble it right lol

eagle force and tienly motors are hand made, I assume they mean hand wound and balanced.
Either way, both my M4 and 249 were experts at motor munching, they ate two G&P M120s, a G&P M140 and almost killed a marui EG1000, each of those motor were serviced by an RC tech, comms were cut, armatures rebalanced and spring tensions adjusted to give optimal performance and they still all got killed.
Stock eagle force EF1300, lasted 3 years and the comm turned pitch black, cleaned it, still works fine. Been overheated just about every time I've used the 249, it is one tough ass motor.
The only downside is it's a bit on the slow side being wound as a torque motor, my G&P M140 gives an extra 200rpm, but I'm pretty darn certain it's because I'm using triple torque gears. If I was running high speed gears that required more torque than speed, I believe the eagle force would win out, or at the very least consume significantly less amperage.

Dude, did you ask Duy if you can exchange your 2 defective motors for another one?

Is there a place in the GTA where I can buy locally or do I have to order from triggerairsoft or the states? My CA motor works but has a fairly high number of TPA so the speed is quite low.

I told him what happened to the first motor, and he gave me the second one free. He said he doesn't have the time to go around figuring out what's wrong with everything. I don't really want to spend $20 on gas to bother him with more motor problems just to have another motor that lasts a week.

pestobanana,

Eagle force is a japanese RC motor manufacturer. They can be found in HK sites, No Canadian retailer sells them to my knowledge. You may be able to find if in the states. They -are- great motors with great QC. The pinion gears they make are also the best i've ever used.

If you are not / cannot get a RMA for a motor send me a PM and we'll work out details on the motor. If i get it running w/o issues i'll send it back. However, other LONEX dealers should be standing behind the product and supporting a RMA *HINT HINT*

If Brad wasnt the so good with the one liners I would have sigged this.

I've seen them on a few US sites, but mostly overseas!
Not to offend anyone, but canadian retailers don't usually stock the really high end parts, not enough demand for them unfortunately

Are we thinking about the same Eagle Force? There was one floating around in the late 90s that made really bomb motors. Then recently another company with the same name popped up on our radar but they are now owned by the same umbrella company as King Arms...

"owned by eagle model"

UPDATE:
Replacements from Lonex finally arrived, installed one and there is no more overheating or black crap flying off. I think we can conclude that the two motors I had previously were from a bad batch.