What do you guys think of mag fed?
 

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...pselzk7v7x.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps425cfcef.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps2b3d6f33.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psf8ec24a9.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps4f5f9aca.jpg


http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...pscbb3b566.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...pshmnvb6yc.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps4ii4agbj.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps8hpc81uc.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps5edp8ejc.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...pszuoktmrq.jpg

"http://s564.photobucket.com/user/SlamSlayer/media/Paintball/1980454_10203925480477917_2704175893047056319_o_zp selzk7v7x.jpg.html"
*
http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...pse5175927.jpg
*

What you guys are looking at are .68 caliber mag fed paintball guns. The same caliber the hopper fed guns, I'm sure you guys think of when you hear paintball, shoot. Mag fed has recently blown up in the past few years in paintball. More and more companies are dip their toes into it, giving it legitimate company backing. And more and more people are joining in this cheaper way to play.

While shooting normal paint still has the same roughly 50 yard range your used to, this can be extended with the use of an Apex tip to closer to 80 yards if not more. Which works exactly like a hop up except it goes on the tip of your barrel and looks like a silencer.
*

Meanwhile First Strike paintballs, which can only be used in a mag fed marker, extend your range to close to TWO HUNDRED YARDS. With their effective range hovering around 100 yards, but we have recorded shots around 150 yards. It takes a bit of skill and luck at that range.*

Heres some videos

First off this video will let you see the difference between normal paint (in a smoothbore barrel) vs First Strike (in both a smoothbore AND rifled barrel) at about 135 feet. Approaching the maximum range for normal paint. This particular rifled barrel (the last test) he's using is actually one of the worth for first strike lol. Its too much of a tight bore.

Lapco FSR First Strike Rifled Barrel Review - Increase range & accuracy on your paintball gun! - YouTube

Here is the ORIGINAL product demo video from the company. This was before rifled barrels were even known as a thing for these rounds lol. He's using a T4.0 which wasn't released yet at the time, and comes with a smooth bore barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zOSozQNURI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjPx...lucd3b6Hmcxn6Q
More companies are also coming out with their own versions of this "Shaped Projectile" ammo.

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psfxfwuvpx.jpg

We also have more brands of the shaped rounds coming out.

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psoqiysipc.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psr78pst4u.jpg
*
*
Another more recent bit of tech, which is actually a revival of old tech, mechanical full auto. This is becoming a staple in the bullet point features on future mag fed markers. Select fire, semi and full auto, all mechanical with zero batteries. *The M17 is the first to make use of this. This is not a bouncing "response trigger", this is true full auto.
*
http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psc000154f.jpg
*
Whats everyones honest opinion?

What do you guys think of mag fed?
 

Been around for rather a long time now. Good for woodsballers, I guess, but I'm into airsoft. Hence, my membership at this fine site and not on a paintball site.


Location: YYZ VOR 062 radial, 17.5 DME FL5280

I still don't see anyone in paintball using gen 3 night vision

I think it's pretty cool but costs wise it is very expensive for the gear and especially if you get into shaped rounds.

Plus it still suffers from misfeeding leading to internal breaks which would fuck up all your other shots and the mess of paintball in general.

I would enjoy this version of paintball much more than speedball but with how much cheaper it is to get into airsoft and the dependability of a 6mm BB to the 68 calibre paintball with no gooey paint to clean up made airsoft a clear winner in my opinion for me.

Misfeeding isn't as bad as you think. I mean it still can still happen, but it depends on the ammo and marker. For example, while those shaped rounds can occasionally jam (realistic? Yeah. But annoying haha), they won't pop because they did. They're hard than normal paint.

The Rap4 468 rifle (The first picture with the box magazine) has what they call a lok-bolt. Its an anti chop feature that prevents the marker from firing unless the round is fully seated. Basically you have to clear the jam like real steel, without the mess of paintball.

They also have the PTR coming out (Professional Training Rifle) which is designed to operate with those shaped rounds over paintballs. Like real steel, it will function with a closed bolt, function forward assist to clear the jams, the works.

Airsoft will ALWAYS have paintball beat when it comes to cost of entry lol. But paintball mag fed has definitely dropped the cost of play down and its still coming down. Aside from ammo, the gear cost about the same. Most of the guns pictured are in the Three to Four hundred dollar range stock.

on the day you sign up to an airsoft site, your first and only post, you ask what our opinion is of paintball kit?

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1...f_trolling.jpg

I suppose it's the next evolution in paintball, but you'd have to get a large playerbase to jump into it to make it viable.

80yard range isn't insignificant, but well tuned airsoft rifles can already achieve that, it seems that paintball is trying to catchup in that respect. The problem with paintball is the paint. A soft projectile breaking at the wrong time can be disastrous for gear. Cleanup is filthy. I'm not a fan of any paintball aside from the shooting people aspect, and that I get in spades with airsoft, without the mess.

I ask only because a lot of mag fed players show their equipment to airsoft players at the local hybrid fields, and get a surprised response. The airsoft players had no idea this kind of paintball exists. So I thought I'd take to the forum, globally and nationally, and see how true this is. So far of all the forums I've posted this on, the general response is total surprise.

The best conversation I got out of it was on the airsoft sniper forums, where people were shocked that first strike could out shoot their airsoft sniper set ups, and they were very interested in the bullet shaped rounds. Other forums gave me generally positive oh cool responses. Plenty of yeah but its not airsoft. And of course plenty of wtf is this crap. But overall, most airsofters didn't know this existed.

So I'm not here to poach players or start things. Just to generally ask opinions from the og milsim guys more or less and have a conversation on shooting sports. What to you think?

Paint will always be part of the game, thats why its paintball lol. Its not as bad as you think though. I know plenty of people, myself included, who's gear still looks pretty new because we take care of it properly. Wash the bdus correctly and take care of our markers. Of course if you don't, you gear is gonna get fudged pretty fast from paint build up.

What do you guys think of mag fed?
 

My first reaction was "why this thread"? You answered that already, but I still ask myself, why this thread? I mean, it's ok your question is legitimate but it doesn't quite belong here in my opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion

That said, Yeah lots of us knew about mag fed PB guns. Others didn't, but it doesn't really matters I think

It solves only one problem of PB. My biggest turn off of PB over Airsoft: community and type of player you see at games is nowhere close the same, Airsoft players being a much more tightly knitted group

No run and gun in Airsoft while I saw plenty in PB

More maturity in general

Paint screwing Potentially expensive gear

Paint emptying the wallet faster than pretty much everything

And so on

So in the end, nope, not impressed

Keep in mind these are just my opinions based on my experience and observations

It's been years since I played with first strike rounds. I loved it back in the day, but I will never go back to paintball. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the game, but airsoft is a better game

I've known about the mag-fed markers for about 6 years, I didn't think it was so "new"

For the record, most airsoft "snipers" are complete idiots. It's actually quite rare to come across one that actually knows how to take advantage of the physics in airsoft.
IE: if they're running a long barrel with the excuse of it getting better range and accuracy, they are an idiot.

As for the shaped rounds, they are completely useless in airsoft. I'm amazed you actually use them in paintball.
Rifling is specifically meant to stabilize high velocity projectiles, and although it does have a limited effect on accuracy in slow velocity projectiles, it doesn't outperform hopup by a REALLY wide margin. A few people have tried the shaped rounds, despite the fact they work very poorly in theory, they're even worse in practice.
Due to the softness of the paintballs you wouldn't be able to use a standard hopup, but you might be able to get away with a long ER-hop type setup. I'd also be amazed if that technology hasn't be transferred over to paintball yet.

If I DID play paintball, this is definitely what I would use. But that being said, how often do you guys do night games or play in winter?
Not that paintball is inferior, I just find it less flexible.

Rifling in paintball was always questionable. You had people who swore by it, and people like myself who knew better lol. Companies came out with "straight" rifling. Which were basically channels in the barrels designed to create an even airflow runway around the ball. You know, marketing and hype. Hammerhead is more or less the only big company left that does and swears rifling works. The problem is for it to even have ANY affect on the ball, you need paint of a very specific size. So its kind of largely useless.

When first strikes first came out, people were pretty skeptical. "Sniper" rounds had been attempted before. Football shaped paintballs, plastic fins (like the back of a nerf football) that you glued to your paint. They came and went because they didn't work or weren't practical. First Strikes came out in 08 and are now largely accepted at fields all over (though it was an uphill battle). There are very few fields that don't allow them, and even those are now coming around. They're here to stay, they work. With a max travel distance of 177 yards and a max effective useful accurate range of 150 yards, they definitely work (all at 300fps of course).

They weren't designed for rifled barrels though. Thats why they have fins, they spin themselves. Some people decided to try it anyway. Turns out it increases their performance in every way by quite a lot. This is well documented and factual at this point. You can see it in the videos I posted Rifled barrels are now standard for first strike.

As far as night games go. Yeah we have 3 day events that last all weekend and often ONE of those nights are a designated play time. I don't know how many people are utilizing the expensive military grade stuff. But night vision is most definitely used. Funny enough, a lot of people take that CoD special edition NVG and mod that to work with their goggles. I personally don't do night games, no NVG type set up lol. So I can't offer too much commentary on it. Except Ive seen pictures of expensive set ups from games in the past. I think scopes on the markers are a bit more popular the helmet mounts and what not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn8l...ature=youtu.be

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps9812b6f9.jpg


http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/s...psfee806e2.jpg

And as far as winter goes, ALL THE TIME. I LOVE snow games.

you can't spin a projectile that has a liquid center. the shaped paintballs are simply "fin stabilized" there is no rifling.

Thats the funny thing. Both sides always have EXACTLY the same things to say about each other when it comes to the negative lol.

Well yeah, rifling on normal paint = useless.
Rifling on First Strike (even though they already have kind of rifled fins to stabilize them) work amazing. They weren't designed with rifled barrels in mind. Its just a happy accident I guess.

I'll post it again (its in the original post). Ive even started the video at the correct spot lol. First, you'll see a grouping of First Strike through a normal smoothbore barrel at 135 feed. Much better than normal paint (which he shows right before this if you want to rewind a bit), but could be better. Then he throws on a lapco rifled first strike barrel (which is a TERRIBLE barrel btw) and watch how tight the grouping gets. A better barrel would get even tighter results.

And yes they ARE spinning. The fins are SPIRALED. Basically after tests it was discovered that in a smooth bore barrel, first strikes won't spin until AFTER they exit the barrel and catch the wind essentially. The rifled barrel pre spins them so to speak. Which tightens up accuracy as they aren't "winding up" mid flight and wobbling off course. Thats why there is such a drastic difference between the rifled and smootbore barrel grouping.

And furthermore, the macyworks shaped projectile pictured above in the original post has NO fins as you can see. That compression band in the middle helps it grip the riffling in the barrels for maximum spin.

http://youtu.be/Ky2gRvlXyts?t=5m10s

With heavier rounds you have better potential for more range over airsoft, it's the deformation of the round in flight that really holds you back. I really do think you'd get a lot better range and accuracy with backspin as long as you could stop the rounds from deforming so much.
We're using tiny 6mm pellets that weight 0.30g and we're sending them very accurately out to 260ft.
Would be a matter of mass vs drag, but you'll never send a low velocity spheroid as far with rifling as you will with hopup. The rifling only stabilizes it axially to a limited extent so it doesn't tumble in flight. Hopup has the effect of stabilizing a spheroid and making it lift at low velocities.

For me, I like speedball paintball and milsim airsoft. I dislike milsim paintball and speedball airsoft.
Very few of those markers look cool to me. The "almost a gun" look is gross to me, especially with incorrect proportions. Back in my paintball days, all the milsim markers just seemed incredibly bulky and unnecessary to me. They have definitely gotten better, but still not enough to really interest me.
To me, paintball is about the competition. Hence, speedball. Airsoft is about the experience. Hence, milsim.

Edit: also I can't fucking stand scope risers on guns, which are pretty much necessary in paintball :p

I dislike the paint aspect, it's a hinderance overall and by no means not a help. With modern airsoft technology, the ability to mark a player is meaningless. Also the need for airlines and tanks, etc is a huge step in the wrong direction. I like the realism, but not over function and versatility. I still only use gas pistols and wouldn't touch a gas platform rifle, unless it was for a short skirmish. Airsoft for versatility, capability and of course the ever important untethered aspect. Paint sucks, I see more range and accuracy potential in airsoft by leaps and bounds. Making paintball guns more realistic is odd, as they are still stuck using paint and air lines/tanks, etc. Just my opinion, but this seems like paintball is like soy bacon to airsoft being real bacon. You keep trying to make it what we already have, but as long as it's soy, that's impossible. And if your food is so good, why do you keep trying to make it taste like mine. I'll never go back to paintball, forward and upwards, not backwards and downwards.

Couldn't have said it better.

Paintball is a kids game, and I'm sure you'd have plenty of interest in those almost guns and the magic rifled paint in an actual paintball forum.

The costs on those FSR are crazy compared to BBs.

100 FSR - $40
2000 .30 BBs - $18

0.4 cents a round for First Strike, 0.009 cents a BB. Plus BBs never develop flat-spots from storage or get broken in transit. Shelf life of paint is like 3 months before they start to degrade, BBs polystyrene never and even bio BBs are like a year+ once they are exposed to moisture/air/sunlight etc.

This tech is cool... I mean if you think about it Simunition is this technology adapted for use in real firearms for training. But not to beat a dead horse you won't find much love for it on this forum.

But what if you guys came out with a shaped projectile like a BB? Something more aerodynamic. Like say first strike almost exactly but on a smaller scale. It would require proprietary equipment for sure, but if it worked that well, wouldn't people want to switch over? At the very least snipers.

First Strikes don't develop flat spots, they also are 100% unaffected by the weather (in short terms like a paintbal would be). They're made of a harder biodegradable plastic. Makes it harder for them to break in your marker as well. Some markers can actually simulated jams with them. We have a marker coming out called the PTR that will be closed bolt in action and more or less mimic a real AR to a tee. You even have a functional forward assist to clear the jams like the real thing. Only possible with First Strike.

Its funny though, hearing this side of it. When it comes to the negative stuff, both sides always have the same things to say about each other (Its a kids game for example lol).

Though I'm getting pretty positive responses back across the 6 or so forums I've posted this one. The most surprising I've found were people complaining about magazine size. Ours hold 20, closer to the real cap of 30 (and in some cases IS the real cap). But I had people telling me how much more realistic airsoft is, and then complaining our magazines don't hold 200 rounds. We have hoppers for that lol (or one of the LMG box mags).

"We have a marker coming out called the PTR"

"Our magazines hold 20 rounds"

"What if you guys did this"

We, us, paintballers, against you guys, the airsofters. That's what it sounds like.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make yourself feel better about paintball with some 8 year old idea that is ridiculously expensive or the really cool pseudo gun direction paintball markers are going but someone nailed it on page 1, straight up trolling.

How is this trolling? Have I insulted airsoft or any players on this forum? Do you guys have a paintball marker coming out called the PTR? Should I have said you have a marker coming out called the PTR. We literally have a marker coming out called the PTR lol.

I'm responding to posts. No us vs them. I'm also asking questions about your hobby. Why is this done like this and not like this? From my experience, this works. Its called a conversation.

A conversation about paintball, in an airsoft forum.

Different strokes for different folks, if you like it the good on you.

What response would I get if I posted pictures of airsoft guns that looked like a paintball gun in a paintball forum and said "hey guys what do you think of this?" I'm pretty sure nobody would give a sh**

Half a dozen other forums holding a fun conversation about it would say you're wrong. Just because you don't find it interesting, doesn't mean others don't too. Hell go back and read the other responses in THIS thread. You're literally the only person trying to instigate something here. Everyone else is responding in a constructive manner while you're all gtfo troll. Who's really trolling?

I've read the thread, I see a lot of "meh" from other users and you pumping it. If that's a fun conversation, then I guess you're right.

You asked for opinion and you're getting them, I just don't know what you expected from here or what a positive response would be: "wow cool!" ???

"Meh" responses are fine. They're also accompanied with constructive criticism which continues the conversation. Calling me a troll and telling me no one gives a shit isn't the same thing.

I just discovered airsoft has kind of a speedball playstyle to it. Speedsoft is it? I had no idea. Go bring that up on a speedball forum, its related, have a conversation. Yeah you'll get mixed responses, but you can compare and contrast them. Neither hobby looks good when they're too busy telling the other one they suck. Neither hobby would bring in new players curious about it from the other side if the player base comes off as hostile.

You wanted opinion, the opinion is that you're trolling by first post asking about paintball kit and what the airsoft world thinks of it. If you read carefully, I said that if I posted paintball look-a-like airsoft guns in a paintball forum that I felt nobody would care.

In my opinion, your finned ammo adds more fuel the argument that paintball is all about how much money you put into your marker and paint and there is a much larger disparity in quality of gear than there is in airsoft. It also says to me that despite what people say about cost, paintball is probably going to cost far more than airsoft in the long run, one more reason to prefer airsoft.

In my opinion it's very interesting that paintball markers are moving to a somewhat more realistic gun look. I think they're trying to appeal to players interested in more GEAR "realism", an area in which I feel airsoft is the much stronger game.

You'll find less than ideal players in either sport no argument there, but if my half dozen paintball experiences tell me anything, it's that I'd be OK if paintballers stayed interested in paintball and not in airsoft. This topic has come up before and I don't recall hearing from many posters who play both, or who went back to paintball after trying airsoft. You scoff when I say it's a kids game, but if you had to make an educated guess, how old is the average paintball enthusiast? Be honest with yourself.

I'm glad there is some quality gear out there for paintballers, but it would take a lot more than a finned paintball or a quasi realistic marker to make me want to play it. Just personal opinion.

For bb weights too, there is a group buy happening in the USA on the airsoft sniper forum (where recently this same thread popped up) that can get you 0.66 ceramic bearings (same/similar as the bbbastard pearls) for 0.20$ a piece. Not too badly priced for a heavy very precise bb....

Group buy link fyi:
http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/47...y-66g-bbs.html

Brock, be nice. There's no need to flame the guy for showing us something cool.

Cetane, ceramic ball bearings are pretty much indestructible. When a ceramic bearing fails, it's because the ceramic balls have dented the steel races. The bearing explodes and the balls are still perfectly round. I'm curious to know how similar in performance to silica BBs those would be.

Also as I had mentioned before, the idea of rifled shuttlecock rounds does not work nearly as well in theory as hopup does on a spheroid. And it HAS been done in practice, and performs even worse.
The reason for this is because the projectiles are so light, any spin on them is very prone to the magnus effect. So whereas backspin (hopup) on a BB will cause it to lift up into the air, rifling will cause it to veer off sharply in a given direction.
Non rifled shuttlecock rounds will fly more accurately than non spinning spheroids, but they won't go as far due to the increased drag.

Backspin stabilizes the spheroid and allows it to physically lift up through the air, producing a very accurate and flat trajectory over very long distances.

I want you to think really hard about just how small a 6mm BB is, and just how light .30g is, and then understand just how significant it is for that tiny lightweight projectile to fly 260 to 300ft at a muzzle energy of only 1.6 joules and have someone notice the impact.

Yeah thats me. Like I said, I've been posting this all over looking for further opinions. To me its just interesting hearing what you guys have to say about it. Considering the standards you hold for the realistic look of your equipment.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned airsoft will always be cheaper than paintball. If I haven't, I completely agree. Other companies are coming out with cheaper shaped rounds for other applications. Like I said, these are a sniper round and if you don't try and shoot 7 mags of 20 rounds each game, a box last all day for cheaper than a case of paint. A box of 100 first strike cost $40, as a sniper that will last all day. A box of Rap4 shaped rounds are supposed to be $13 for a box of 100 (f that is the capacity they come). You can buy a decent amount of those for your normal rifleman style load out.

As far as average age, that really depends on what side of paintball you look at. Speedball for example, definitely is on the lower side. Kids in their mid to late teens dominate that and they start pretty young (early teens). Sadly, thats also where you see the shittiest attitudes. Woodsball as a whole has a very broad age range. Much harder to nail down an average and mag fed so far has a much higher age rate simply because the gear does get expensive. Even though there is entry level gear like speedball. But there is less of it and what is entry level, isnt as "tacticool" as the mid and hi end stuff.




I'm not at all trying to put down airsoft and the range you guys get out of them. Before First strike, thats what I always envied. But airsoft just isn't that prominent here in NYC to really get into it. Yeah there are players, but there are no near by fields. I was exposed to both at the same time. And years later I just ended up playing paintball first I guess. I would do both if I could. School and work don't leave much time for two money and time consuming hobbies on top of other life things lol. I can definitely see it in the future. But I just feel like i enjoy the postive feedback of a round breaking on target that paintball gives. Thats just my opinion of course.

My opinion on this is if these are your "sniper" rounds then they should at least be more accurate than what is displayed on the video. For that price I should be able to headshot from 200' all day long. With the video posted they're less accurate than a stock G&G Combat machine.
Therefore coming here and wowing us with a mediocre at best grouping from an un-awe inspiring distance is just paintballers trying to catch up on range and accuracy.
And yes I've played both sports. No you won't see me on a paintball forum.

yeah, I used a mag fed marker once and I sold it off..and here is why

1. 100 balls for 10bucks, and that last like 2 matches IF there is no respawn. with respawn, 100 balls are nothing..and these are drop in games.

2. small airtank in the stock. I got myself a cheaper M17CQB, and that thing shoots around 100 rounds and yay, needs refill of air since I can only use a 13cu tank. The adapter milsig sell for you to be able to use the gun WITH A STOCK is 80 dollars...Not to mention the Ninja tank I got prevents the stock anyways, because you know, you should of bought a milsig tank that can rotate..and that costs twice as much as a ninja tank. Or you can get shrims..

3. loading paintballs in to a mag is painful...there is no quick loader for a square head mag, only round collars can. Guess which one i had...so i have to load it one by one by hand...want a quick loader? oh that will be 30 bucks because it's uncommon..

4. the misfeed/break really fks ur accuracy, which you have almost none to being with. Barrels really make a difference in paintball, I have a short stock barrel, and my friend has a upgraded carbon barrel with holes to keep the ball stable. Our accuracy is unmatched, I can see my balls curve to the sides, it's ridiculous..I tried his tippmann X7, and god damn it shoots straight with that barrel..(once we switch barrels, he lost the accuracy..)

so yeah, I switched to airsoft right a way..the money I got back selling off paintball stuff got myself a semi-decent AEG primary + a gas pistol and some protective gear and extra mags..Had so much fun without dealing with all that stuff..

it really all comes down to is money. By playing airsoft, I can afford much more things like more gear or even a basic NVG if I really want one..

Accuracy would be the biggest issue for the price of the rounds. I agree with Slodin, for the cost of the rounds I'd like to see higher accuracy, but unfortunately the nature and physics of the sport kind of prevent that. You'd have better success getting range and accuracy from reballs.

Speaking of effective range, I'd describe it at the range where you can hit a torso with repeatability. I paid $2000 for my gun, but I've got an effective range of 260ft with .30g BBs that I get 4000 for $45.
It's the "paint" part of paintball that hinders performance.

Of course, BBs don't mark the target and it's a huge annoyance when someone doesn't call an awesome shot. But The ability of paintballs to break at their maximum range is going to be lowered as well, just how far CAN you shoot a paintball before it won't break?
On the other side of the fence, there's paintballers that won't call balls that don't break, and some that wipe as well. So we have cheaters on both sides.
There were, way back in the day, 6mm paintballs available for airsoft. But with 470 round highcap mags, speed loaders, and the speed at which they get loaded, it just compounded the issue of balls breaking in your equipment.

It really just comes down to whether you want to mark your target or not. Everything else is pretty much the same.

What I think is that this is paintball trying to become something that it is not... Realistic looking. Paintball has its place, and that's in shooting your friends and having a way of marking hits. Its more of a "sport" than airsoft is. Airsoft is more of a fashion show and "experience".

I think mag fed paintball guns look even worse than your regular hopper setups, simply because regular paintball guns look like they do what they're meant to do. Mag fed paintball guns just look like they're trying to do something and doing a really shitty job at it.

The big reason why nobody here is impressed is because the "new developments" in paintball are developments made in airsoft several decades ago.

The player maturity argument airsofters like to make is outdated. It sort of applied back when airsoft in Canada was pretty much all 18+, but now that airsoft is becoming mainstream, you get just as many tards playing airsoft as you do in paintball.

I think it's funny that this same conversation has been had within the Paintball community across decades.

There are those (almost a literally dying breed) who believe that Stock Class pump Paintball (sort of like speedball, kind-of) is the only Paintball, and anything else is a mutation and/ or dilution of the essential game. Maybe an entertaining and worthwhile mutation, but not "it" at all.

These same people typically have no aversion to Airsoft; they may not like it or play it for a whole host of reasons, but they're pretty lessaiz faire about the whole 'issue' so it were, so long as nobody else tries to 'WOODSBALL' or 'SPEEDBALL: RPS IS BETTER' or 'AIRSOFT' them out of their own space.

I'm still pretty young, but I've been active in Airsoft and Paintball long enough to remember when Woodsball and guys in camo were a notable point of contention within the 'splat' community.

We're all working on our own things here, I can argue for AND against both Airsoft and paintball. However, different groups have their own things going, and diversity makes everything more exciting overall, so long as we establish and maintain communities where people can freely cross the floor.

Kinda like how I personally view the lowly Hamburger to be one of working-class Humanity's finest creations. It is in all it's possible variations possibly my favorite food. I would eat one every day if I didn't know my heart would explode.
All that is true to me, but if I couldn't go get a Shwarma, or Dim Sum, or some other monumentally motherfucking excellent food, I would feel very sad and unfulfilled indeed.

Lets see:
More expensive to buy
More expensive to feed
Less reliable
Less realistic

I think I'd look forward to a colonoscopy with greater relish.

Oh and if you happen to think the forward assist has ANYTHING to do with clearing a malfunction then I've got this ocean front property in Alberta I think you'd be interest in......

You get your colonoscopies with relish?

On another note! Hey guys, my buddies and I are bringing out some custom Betamax players that we've painted the Blueray logo on the side of.... Thoughts?

lol no lie Betamax was the bomb, stupid VHS...

My Laser Disc owns you all.

Paintball is gay.

Hifi bitch! Speakers the size of a Buick, sound quality of a Walkie-talkie.


......successful derail everyone! High fives for everybody.

I'll stick to my hopper and etek 3 I hate mag fed markers to much can go wrong and if I'm having trouble with feeding I can't just hand feed like I can with my marker plus too much fluff in the way when playing speedball all that extra look at my realistic gun gets in the way during movement and gun fights running to the 50 is a pain in the ass with a gun over 5 pounds minus hopper and tank my etek 3 weighs a pound maybe a pound and a half at most

It's hard having a G&P M249 and listen to people complain about how heavy their 5lb guns are.

I'm not complaining in speedball there is so much paint flying off the break trying to get to the 50 is hard enough to begin with adding weight just slows you down something you don't need when you trying to get up front and lock down the god bunker or the 50 snake so you can keep your guys from dying any sort of extra weight is not needed that's why when I play front I only carry out 3 pods as apposed to the 7-9 I carry out as a back player if you are too heavy to make it to the important bunkers your useless to your team when I play airsoft I carry out quite a lot but during speedball I keep myself light and fast

what is a period

On a phone thanks

It's synonymous with "hummer week"

Here's the thing; paintball versus airsoft is a pointless debate, realistically you can do with one what you can with the other. You can milsim, speedball, etc, it doesn't matter. Paintballers can wear military gear instead of their motocross something's, and vice-versa. The basic dynamic is paint versus not paint. I understand the idea of marking a target, but I don't find it an advantage. The abilities of shooting 6mm styrene rounds have obliterated the need for paint. Also, I like mud, dirt, fading, etc, on my gear, but not paint. Using paint inside of a round is a disadvantage, period!

What do you guys think of mag fed?
 

I ONLY visit ASC on my phone. The problem isn't your phone, the problem is your standards. Keep higher standards for yourself, lol.

My old FN I had back in '93 was north of 12lbs. I still think it a perfectly comfy weight.

lol

As an aside, the forward assist is to assist your bolt carrier group in moving forward. If the BCG or your round is not seated properly, it will not fire.
If your gun jams, do not start slamming on your forward assist. If the gun simply does not fire, then you could, debatably, hit your forward assist.

As for the topic at hand, I'm not a fan of the mag fed paintball guns, for my own opinions and reasons. But I don't think you'll get any sort of satisfactory or definitive answer from posting something so broad and opinion-oriented.

personally, it's cool but as already mentioned, I also have a beef with the price of regular paintballs themselves. Show me Oneshots and I have to pass every time. I already play marksman with my 98Custom with a quickswap tube holding 45 .68Cal's, but at 80ft of range, unless my target is sitting around snoozing, then he'd be gone by the ball gets to land. Mind you paintballs outdoor go up to 320fps tops: indoor they go 250fps, my pistol fires at 340fps!

Whoa red that's way hot man 300 max, any higher is really dangerous your goggle systems really only built for 350 pointblank. I change my lenses every ten or so hits. I don't know where your playing but everywhere I do its 250-280 with any tourney I played being 290. You really shouldn't ever play over 300 fps hell most tournaments are really strict on that. Going so far as to check fps on the field. and if a man on your team is found hot your forced to play a man down.

So i'm just going to chime in on a few points. You may take it as you wish.
Who I am - People call me Mittens. I am a paintballer (sp00ky Scarryyy) I have played both paintball and airsoft. I have reffed more airsoft than paintball (I do enjoy reffing airsoft) I used to be hard into airsoft as a young gun so I do have more than a general idea on both games.
After reading this post I can't help but post. Ignorance kills my soul and I just can't get around some things that have been said.
This being said I stopped reading after page 2.(But it looks like the thread pissed away afterwards)
I also understand this is an airsoft forum so with due respect, some of you may not like what I have to say.

First of all lets hit "Maturity"
Last time I checked the mature thing to do when you see a post you don't like or find offensive is to simply not reply to it. Leave it alone and let the conversation continue without hindrance.
-Cough-
"Maturity in paintball" vs "Maturity in airsoft"
You are lying to yourself if you think paintball is any less mature than airsoft. Lying through your teeth. There is immaturity everywhere in every crevice and I will tell you from experience I have seen more trolling, hatred, mixed offensive opinions, cheaters, liars, immaturity coming out of airsoft BST's and forums than I've seen anywhere else on the internet. To say your game is any more mature than anything else in the world is blind ignorance. There is immaturity in both paintball and airsoft.
Take that as you will.

To answer your age question the average age of paintballers is 22.4 years.
P.S. A childs game is hop scotch. Paintball is defined as an extreme sport.
Airsoft is merely a sport.

Addressing the "Mess" Paint washes off with a garden hose and dish detergent if it's a big mess. If you get into paintball chances are you stop caring about possible stains or left over paint on gear after a month or two(I did)
Addressing mess once more: From what I have seen as a referee paintballers can be just as lazy as airsofters but generally, airsofters tend to be afraid of getting dirty. Atleast the ones around me do. (Which to me drives me crazy with confusion, if i'm not sweaty and dirty by the end of the day I didn't have a good time)

Addressing community. The community in a hunting club is the same damn type of community in a paintball field and an airsoft field. Likewise with football and soccer. Wherever there is a hobby, people make a community that is usually extremely similar. To tell me your community is any better than the hot dog eating enthusiasts is asinine. I would tell you paintball has a better community of acceptance but we wouldn't react any different to an airsofter posting pictures of his guns on a paintball site.

Addressing Range (This is my favorite argued topic)
Lets talk about EFFECTIVE range guys. First off, How far you can shoot means absolutly nothing in either games. The only thing that matters is how far you can shoot and have a player call their hit.
If you swear your hop up can help you shoot 100 yards (I don't believe it sorry) That's cool. But will the player even feel the hit? Let alone call it.
If your effective range is 50 yards and a paintballs effective range is 50 yards. What is the real difference in range other than you have a hop up to help the bb fly slightly straighter than a paintball? Effective range is effective range. It's completely reliant on how far a hit can be acknowledged or the paint breaks.
And I can tell you from first hand experience at 25 yards people are either down right cheating or they just aren't feeling the hits.
Food for thought on that.

The argument with the hop up is a argument I have to admit I don't know much about. But I have been learning more about it. So lets touch on hop ups.
A hop up is a way you can compensate for the trajectory by putting a back spin on your bb. However, you can also send the bb into an arc using the hop up(done this before. Not sure if fluke or naw) If you get your hop up just right you can force the bb into a backspin that carries the bb in a straighter flight path.
However this comes at a cost.
You loose muzzle velocity first off. And second off I can tell you from seeing it as a ref when the bb drops off, it drops off hard. It isn't an arc. Because as previously read, the backspin helps carry the bb further and flatter even at lower velocities.
Unfortunately this affect can cause the perception of cheating. As you saw the bb "Hit him" when really it dropped off before the target.
And again the subject of hop ups is new to me, but this is my current gatherings.

One of my favorite things I've seen through this experiment is the "Paintball trying to be something it's not" Which to me is extremely ignorant. Paintball is a game where you shoot a paint filled gel capsule at a target. The means of which the gel capsule is delivered is irrelevant. What you are looking at is markers designed for Milsim purposes. Which as airsofters you probably understand there is a difference between a walk on day and an milsim event. Just as there is a difference between a competetive airsoft team and a milsim airsoft team.

Cost:
Cost is a widely touched on subject. The way i'll put it is this way.
On average I spend about 25 bucks a day of play. I usually don't shoot 500 paintballs per day. I only need one air fill and I pay entry.
After becoming a ref and joining the fields local team. I don't pay entry or air anymore. So my cost is strictly paint and 12grams for my sidearm.
But comparing daily cost. My cost was the same as an airsofter going to play. As airsoft entry usually runs higher than 10 bucks. Then you have your ammunition. And if your battery goes(If your running Aeg) your done for the day. There is no "Refill"

Regarding cost on startup gear. Mag fed paintball costs pretty much the same as airsoft for a GOOD setup. So where a good airsoft gun is usually about 300-400 dollars plus the upgrades that makes your airsoft gun worthwhile to work on and have(You know, new barrel, maybe new parts to your gearbox. Etc.. I don't know the works) the cost comes out to about the same. With paintball being slightly more expensive.

Both games are very fun to play. To choose either because you like this or that shows your character. While myself i'll never "Become an airsofter" i'm not objectified to picking up an airsoft gun and playing a game or two.
So don't take my comments the wrong way. Paintball definately has it's flaws. So does airsoft.

Both games also have their perks. Paintball has attributes that airsoft doesn't have. Such as game immersion. Because of how loud the game is, how for the win players are at scenarios, how hard the projectiles hit, and how messy and sweaty the game gets. Paintball has a more immersive game. IN MY OPINION.
Paintball to me, feels more competitive and demands more of me as a player.

Personally, i'm more concerned about function over form. And Gameplay over looks.
While I still wear a swag kit (Crye or die mofuks) and my gun is pretty much 1:1 scale. I still concern with the function of what I wear and what I do.
I prefer paintball because it provides me with what I look for in a competitive game.
Mag fed provides me with the experience I enjoy. From stacking my mags to counting my shots.
But i'm probably a different player than you.

Trollcrusher One this is Had Enough Actual.

Push in on this if you are you looking for work.

That's great input

Firstly, I agree to the maturity bit. It's a matter of what company you keep, and there are some pretty hillbilly and retarded airsoft groups out there.
Also, I fucking agree about the "afraid to get dirty part" to some extent.
Manitoba and Sask have THE MOST hardcore airsofters in the prairies. They play in -15 to +40 weather, extreme humidity, high winds, rainstorms, snow, mud, marsh, thick mosquito soup, swarms of ticks that would bring down a moose, and carpets of infectious poison ivy. They also have some of the poorest players, which brings me to my next point;
The rich airsofters tend to play less.
You buy a couple $2000 PTWs, a $9000 NVG/helmet/sordin setup, $500 proper softshell, all the gear you might need for any weather condition. And then you only play when in ideal weather conditions.
There are many geared out airsofters that don't make appearances past october.
But I think harsh weather is the BEST time to play airsoft lol

As for range, agree on the part about effective range, BUT that being said my systema PTW shoots 260ft, and it's effective to 260ft. At 100ft I can shoot a heel sticking out from a corner. And it's certainly not the only one in the country that can do that either.
My pistol shoots about 160ft, and is effective to 140ft.
The backspin on, and weight of the BBs increases their accuracy by a ridiculous amount.
Granted, there is some truth to your statement; most AEG's do tend to fall into the 80-140ft effective, 160-240ft max category. Not everyone has the money to upgrade, or has access to a guntech that's capable of making your gun shoot amazing.
The places where airsoft guns LOSE accuracy, are:
-selecting ammo that's too light
-having a poor grade hop rubber, or an ineffective type
-having dirt, corrosion, bends, roughness, or inconsistent bore in the barrel
-having a poor air seal
-mechanical play in fitments; like hop chamber to inner/outer barrel, inner barrel to outer barrel, air nozzle, etc
-having poor repetitive play; like in the hop arm. If it doesn't move by the same amount every shot, you'll be inconsistent
-bad aim.
-The freaking wind. A major issue to having such light ammo, is that past the 200ft mark, the BBs have lost so much forward momentum that small gusts of wind can throw your shots off by a few feet. This can be counteracted by tilting your gun, and having the hopup work against the wind to maintain a straight trajectory. However small, random gusts of wind will still affect your flightpath.

The ideal setting for your hop, is to have a flat trajectory with no "hump" in the flight path, and it hits the ground in a predictable manner. If the BB flays out in a random direction at the end of a straight flight path, it just means you need to use heavier ammo.
As for the fps drop, it's not nearly as big as you might think. If a gun shoots 400fps with just enough hop to prevent the BB from rolling down the barrel, it could shoot either 390fps or 410fps with the hop properly applied. Guns that are overvolumed at the cylinder have been known to actually GAIN fps by increasing the pressure of the hop up (as this causes pressure to build behind the BB).
Guns with Rhop are even less affected by any fps drop due to the lower pressure applied.
As for the "perception of cheating", the same could be said of not having hopup. The fact is the BB has traveled so far and slowed down so much that it's hard to tell if you hit or not.
The only way to get the BB out that far to start with is to apply backspin, but the backspin isn't causing the BB to slow down any faster.
Heavier ammo will lose it's momentum faster than light ammo, but regardless, shit is not moving fast at 250ft lol
Depending on your setup, the drop at the end of the flight path can be pretty gradual instead of a straight drop, but even if you hit someone at 260ft, it IS entirely possible they just won't notice. That's something we have to live with, so it's understandable if it does happen. I'm personally not going to call someone a cheater for not calling a shot to the back of their shemagh at 260ft.
I guess in paintball it would be similar to a ball not breaking at the limit of your range.
If people aren't calling their hits at 25 yards, they ARE downright cheating. At only 75ft it would be very obvious being hit by a 280fps gun, let alone anything upgraded. Gear hits (1000D nylon) under about 180-200ft tend to make a very distinct "pop" when they hit, so if you can't see the BB hit, you can usually tell by the sound.
I totally agree it's much easier to cheat in airsoft, but we do (obviously) ban people who blatantly cheat.
Another issue that arises from not marking your target, is people who call your hit for you. We've got this one guy in my area that's been banned from almost every club for calling everyone's hits. Basically he just calls it by where he aims, not by where the BB actually hits. The irony is, he doesn't always call his own hits.

I'd be more than happy to explain any technical questions you might have about airsoft guns! :)

You sir, know what you are talking about.
I appreciate this more than you'd expect.

IKNORITE??
That's why I make all those awesome sticky threads lol

Seriously. 100%. Good airsoft guns shoot farther and straighter than good paintball guns. The called hit/paint breaking argument loses credit when you realize cheaters cheat at all ranges. In airsoft, the range at which people can't feel hits is noticeably greater than the distance at which you KNOW you hit them. At least, this is true for guns shooting over 370 fps, since I haven't played with anything less in years.
Source: I played 6 years of paintball before switching to airsoft for the last 6 years.

What? Is your trump card in this department the notion that no one ever could ever possibly hope to bring a SPARE FUCKING BATTERY? What kind of babbling bullshit is that? You sound like one of those late night infomercials.

"HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO OPEN A CAR DOOR? ALL THAT KNEE BASHING FRUSTRATING CAUGHT ON YOUR SEATBELT DILDOS BEING FIRED AT YOU FROM ACROSS THE STREET? NOW YOU CAN DO IT WITH EASE BY GIVING US YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER AND TAKING OUR SHITTY PRODUCT WHICH OPENS THE DOOR, PLAYS THE IMPERIAL MARCH, JACKS YOU OFF AND FAILS WITHIN 37 SECONDS OF FIRST USE"

Fuck.

Yet players still ask around for spare batteries....
If you bring a spare battery you are obviously smarter than the man standing next to you.

The point you addressed isn't regarding a single battery. It's regarding when you run out of batteries. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

Mittens, I assume you are from the US correct?

Airsoft is a COMPLETELY different game this side of the border (or at least has been thus far). I've played on both sides and there simply is no comparison. The maturity level and community aspect of airsoft in Canada blows PB entirely out of the water up here, not even a comparison.
Paintball is about as "extreme" as snowboarding on the bunny hill, claiming otherwise is seeing things with a serious paradigm dysfunction.
Airsoft by definition isn't a sport. It's a non-competitive activity and that is a GOOD thing.

It sounds to me as though your experience has been with shitty airsoft equipment and players. Good equipment is very much able to make accurate single-round hits past 200ft. Heck I've made many 60-80yd hits with my GBBR which is far from the most accurate gun on the field. All with ammo costing under $10/500 that isn't effected by moisture.
A correctly setup hop-up throwing heavy BBs will actually increase FPS compared to no hop.

As for feeling a hit, generally a person can feel/hear a BB at around 0.25j of energy. Using .43g BBs even a rifle shooting with 1.6j muzzle energy is going to be able to be felt well past 200ft.

-Grant

I run GBBR's with an AEG backup... I'm still using the same can of propane from May, with 2 spare cans in case I run out. Plus I've got 3 spare batteries for my AEG. A single one of those batteries will last me a full day, the other two are spares. In a couple of weeks I'll probably be getting an HPA setup as well, so I highly doubt I'll be running out of HPA, propane, and batteries...

Most seasoned airsofters using AEG's will have 2 spare batteries in addition to their primary battery, a back up for their back up. GBBR players will have more gas than they know what to do with and spare parts to keep their guns up and running if in the off chance something breaks down. If you've got an HPA setup, you're pretty much good for days on a field with a HPA compressor (which is pretty much every local field in my region).

As for cost, $15 for a bag of bb's will last me multiple game days. Admission fee is $10-15 depending on the field, so airsoft definitely more cost efficient as I'd be spending $15 a month for bb's, and $10-15 for entry each time. And if in the off chance someone does run out of batteries, usually another player will offer to lend you theirs or the field will have spare loaners.

As for paintball, the prices I've seen are usually $10-15 for 100 paintballs, say admission is $10 (this is sorta pushing it as most places I've seen are $20 for drop in PB) and air is another $10, you're looking at minimum ~$50 if you use 300 paintballs for a day, and that's for the average paintball player with their own gear, not someone like yourself with "perks".

PS. if you're in the States, airsoft should be even cheaper.

I missed the battery comment.
Lipo's are easily available and are dirt cheap for high quality. $8-$22 for an 11.1v 1200-4900mah battery.
Depending on your gun, and how much you shoot, you can go through anywhere from 600mah to 2000mah in a scrim day.
Many battery chargers also hook up to car batteries for charging in the field.

With my PTW, I'll run through about 400mah and 600 rounds in an indoor day, sometimes up to double in an outdoor scrim day. And I hold 3 of the 1200mah sticks in my crane stock, so I never worry about running out of power.
For big ops, if I use my 249, around 10k rounds depending on the length of the game and it gets crazy battery efficiency at only 350-400mah per 3000 round box mag (on a 4900mah battery)

If you know what you're doing, you never run out of juice.

Sure, it also happens when you run out of paintballs or air. Your argument here is flawed because you're trying to make this look like an airsoft only problem.

And polarstars/SMPs are basically accurate paintball guns with REALLY inexpensive ammo