Recoil Shock or Tippmann M4?
 

Hey guys airsoftuser14 here. Made this account here cause I have a bit of a problem. This problem being, I am not sure on what gun I want next. This is between the 2 guns being the Scar L recoil shock and the Tippmann M4. Reasons I want these guns is because they both have recoil and are relatively lower priced for my budget. The only trick though is that if I get the Tippy, I will mostly use the co2 mags because my home and favorite field does not allow HPA....

Thanks all :-)

Tm. Hands down. Most fun ive ever had shooting an electric gun. Range is amazing, fps is low but it doesnt matter when you outrange everyone else practically.

Tippmann has the stupidest co2 mags in existence, range without mods is under 100 feet, sounds like a spring wobbling around whenever you shoot

Get a recoil shock

Get
a
recoil
shock


Now

I am just going to throw this out there. Here is a small list of EBBRs http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?p=1953436

I have heard good things about the TM Recoil Shocks.

Its kind of weird because after talking to a couple of people, they say the Tippmann blows the Recoil Shock out of the water and continue on to say how its cheaper and such...

Decisions, Decisions.....

I want to say go Tippmann but if you're not going HPA, go towards the TMs. The Tippmann M4 works best when it's run by HPA.

If you could use HPA, the tippmann might be better for you, but since you cant i wouldnt go near the tippmann. Its a HPA paintball gun in an airsoft body. If you plan on using co2 mags you wont get enjoyment out of it. Everytime you remove the mag it vents all the co2 and youll need to put in a new 12g capsule. That means carrying around mags, co2, and every mag change carefully putting a new co2 bulb in the mag and reloading. No chris costa tacticool mag changes with the tippmann on co2 haha

Tm recoil shocks are super expensive and so are the mags, if you can find one used go for it! Theyre super fun. But maybe check out Bolt m4's, they have hard kick and use standard parts mostly, and are cheaper

Well i mean i would be using it like 80% with the mags. the other 20% with a tank and line.

$1 co2 bulb per every 50-80 shots makes airsoft games expensive haha Plus 25 bucks usd for a co2 mag(more expensive than the Tm recoil shock mags, and way more expensive than mags that would work in the Bolt). Id check out the bolt m4, sounds like middle ground for what youre looking for

Not sp sure on the bolt, have heard somr shady things about it. Think im gonna go for the recoil shock unless i somehow get persuaded lol. thanks guys :)

Why not the KWA ERG, have heard good things about it, its cheaper than a TM and mags are reasonably priced. Or just screw the whole recoil AEG thing and get a gbbr, so much more fun ! xD

Gbbr=Unusable in canada for half the year though. So fun, but were screwed by living here haha

Yea its true and a lot of maintnance. now that i look at it, recoil shocks are like the best aegs on the market. now tl decode which one hmmm. is there really any difference between them besodes externals?

GHK's run solid in the winter, and you can substitute for CO2 for those that don't run well. (WE, etc.)

KWA has stopped making spare parts for the ERG for sometime, and the trigger contacts are known to bust. I would wait for their rear-wired version to come out, which I would suggest early next year.

TM recoil shocks have weak recoil in comparison on the KWA, however it's up to you. I wouldn't pay $1000 for just the stock gun.

In terms of ERG recoil
1) BOLT
2) RM4
3) TM

Edit:

There's a big thread on Arnies about recoil shocks, you should look into them.

The newest recoil shock would be the 416DEVGRU's, and their SCAR's.

If you can afford it, recoil shock. Great shooters right out of the box, although I recommend wiring to deans and running 7.4v lipos as opposed to using the proprietary battery. Make sure to budget for the magazines, they unfortunately cost almost as much a GBBR mags.

I live on the border of the US and Canada border so i could get it for cheaper from one of those japanse sights. max recpil isnt an issue for me i only want a little. performance is my top priority.

I have owned a TM Recoil Shock, I have messed around with several Tippmans.

TM:
-Shoots quite accurately and is nice in stock form
-Stops on empty
-External finish doesn't look too rugged, but attention to detail is good
-Recoil isn't great, far less than other electric recoil engines on the market
-The 416 I had ran on proprietary 8.4v batteries, but it ran well on those batteries
-Fairly low FPS, costs a lot of money to increase the FPS because TM internals are extremely soft and only last on low FPS springs

Tippman:
-Basically a 98 inside an AR body
-Accuracy is as good as your barrel group, shoots okay stock
-Dumbest trigger ever made
-Recoil feels stupid, gun moves forward instead of backward
-Recoil spring setup feels like a door stopper twang every time you shoot
-Probably the worst CO2 design in existence - The gun is the puncture valve, so you have to slap the mag in to puncture and fire. When you remove the mag, all the remaining CO2 sprays out.

There are some things I like about the TM Next Gen AEGs, there are some things I don't like about them. There is nothing I like about the Tippman.

pestobannana, what would you recommend then?

A VFC is what he'd recommend.

Of the options you listed, read my post and you'll see what I would recommend. I also add to my recommendation that you don't smuggle a TM across the U.S. - Canada border.

I want something that I wouldnt need to change anything.

That's actually the buffer spring, I believe, rocking around with the weight to give it the recoil.
Actually a sound/feature that people enjoy.

TM will do you fine out of the box.

Same with the Tippmann on HPA + 1 year warranty.

Pesto, what i ment by that was that it sounded lke you dont recommend either the Tippy or recoil shock. So i was wondering if maybe you rated something else and wouod recommend it.

Honestly,

Just go with the TM recoil. If you don't want recoil, get a VFC AEG.

I still prefer GHK, so all my funding goes towards my GHK M4.

I had a vfc and then sold it to afford this. Ghk sounds interesting but gas guns are too high maintnance for me.

I don't like the Tippman at all, I thought the recoil shock had some great offerings but the platform wasn't for me. The TM is an excellent gun if you're okay with low FPS and 8.4V Ni-MH batteries, low torque motors and the such. You're also stuck with balanced-torque gear ratios, and the stop on empty stops working if you increase speed (for trigger response). I'm more about high performance everything.

If you are dead set on something with a blowback feel, your options are either an actual gas gun, or AEGs with recoil engines. As far as gas guns go, the ONLY one that I think is well built and I would run is Viper Tech, but that's probably way over your budget. As far as recoil AEGs go, the ones mentioned were BOLT, KWA, and TM. BOLT kicks the hardest if I recall, but they break the most. KWA is okay. TM is also okay, but the kick is fairly weak.

In my opinion there are much better options available if you do not need blowback.

I have to agree with PestoBanana. In airsoft guns, the "kick" is gimmicky. And they aren't all equal. Some push forward instead of back, which is odd, and some vary in kick strength. I have yet to feel one that impressed me. If all around performance, accuracy and reliability is your thing, get a high end AEG and upgrade it accordingly. You can get a Polar-Star engine for it if you like, though they are becoming unpopular at some fields. GBBRs are near, but gas leaking, unreliability in hot or cold and the fact they can jump up ten, twenty, thirty plus FPS makes them suspect.

If you're dead set on a recoil type, well, you know what your choices are and you know what the ups and downs are. I personally haven't used the Tippman, but I'm hearing far more negatives than positives since its release. Personally I'd never run a gun that has me hauling around CO2 cartridges or a tank and line as that is counterintuitive to airsoft. To each their own.

Buy the one that has the best longevity versus parts support/upgrades.

I just want something that holds value, performs accordingly, and doesnt need anything replaced. Im gonna go for a recoil shock. Kind of sick of regular aegs. None of them ootb are really worth it to me. Thanks all. Now to decide on which recoil shock. I like the scar but the 416 is also pretty nice looking. I play mostly cqb and O switch hand alot so ambi controls are always very nice.

I am curious, what your budget ?

By the way, i own my DG SCAR-L.

daytona is way to expensive and not allowed to use hpa anything at my field.when i said scar and 416 i ment revoil shock scar and 416.

Your field who forbids HPA might not know about tournaments locks, seriously they are lazy about rule enforcement and decided take the easy way out by banning HPA. Our field ( Red Devils ) where i play dosent even ban HPA, only enforce FPS with certain weight (0.20g) or energy limit when different weight. Also, they use own BBs in chrony tests.

If you can pick TM, PICK TM. There nothing wrong going TM for best performance.

Resale value is very good for a TM with untouched internals except battery connectors you have change it to work with normal LiPos and you are golden.

yeah its pretty dumb the way my field does it.....

so now does anyone have anything to say on the topic of rs scar or rs 416? pretty sure rhere the same internallu.

Newest RS = 417/416 DEVGRU/SCAR

Internals are the same, 416DEVGRU may have something newer, don't know details. Really depends on what you like, go from there.

The same crap has happened with Systema's quick change system or GBBRs with an NPAS.

The biggest issue with HPA is the joule creep or the fact that FPS doesn't balance out between switching round weight. I've seen GBBRs that went up about forty FPS by early afternoon from morning chrono, without being adjusted.

If fields enforced a strict "no matter what" joule limit it wouldn't matter what people can use.

The Marui SCAR is a bit easier to convert for lipo (as it is not designed to fit the Marui proprietary battery to begin with.

Disassembly of the SCAR is a bit more involved than the M4/416 pattern but shouldn't be an issue if you never plan to take it apart.

If you're going to be playing CQB, a TM will run a long time in the stock configuration (at 300ish FPS).

I prefer the M4/416 for external customization options.

Any questions ask Brock0, he has like 3 recoil shocks. :-)

So now I must deicde on a 416 and scar l.
is one more solid then the other?
i know the 416 recoils more but, cant be that much more, right?

if i get the scar normal, aka not the cqc lol, can I take off the outter barrel extension and put the flash on the threads the extension?

if you have both, which do you prefer and why?
thanks all

No - the longer barrel is a single piece with a flash hider at the end there is no "extension".

This is what it would look like with a suppressor.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...agon/SCAR2.jpg

If you want the look below, you need the CQC version or buy the CQC barrel which will probably be $100 and hard to find and then you'll need to take things apart to get it in place.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...CAR16s-021.jpg

The Marui gurus in the UK say the newer models are more solid, which would be the 416 but I'm sure the SCAR is a good gun if that's the look you want.

brock, whats your opinion on what is better?

also how much shorter is the cqc then the normal? i usually play cqb so the shorter the gun, the better. would it make any differene?

I don't own a SCAR so I can't say what's better - you have to decide for yourself. Quality wise a TM is a TM.

The CQC will be 4-5 inches shorter which will probably be a little better in CQB, especially if you want to add a suppressor for looks.

mmhmm, sounds good.
anyone on here have both so i could pick their brain a bit?
looks like ill look around for the cqc then sick of having a huge gun in cqb. thanks

If both as in both the Scar and the 416, they will be quite similar in internal workings. It's fair to say you should pick the one that is most aesthetically pleasing.

If both as in both the Scar with the normal barrel, and the CQC barrel, they are exactly the same. Other than the small increase in FPS you may encounter from the longer of the two, and the obvious visual difference in barrel length, they are literally identical platforms.

i prefer shorter guns.

I know the scar has a few weakpointd, but, does the 416 have any ?

Just get the 416, a lot more rail options too and you can add accessories on them easier.

It's good to research a potential purchase but honestly now, google is out there and you'll find all kinds of in depth reviews on Marui recoil guns by reading and watching videos.

Really the bottom line with any TM recoil is you've got a great gun out of the box, with some nice features like recoil and bolt stop on empty.

There are issues too such as the high cost, proprietary battery system, and upgrading required to get it shooting 400fps (if that's what you want).

Also, airsoft guns don't typically "hold their value". As each generation has changes up technology and a lot of other companies compete, airsoft guns tend to lose value pretty quick versus ten years ago. So unless it is rare or hard to get, it doesn't even hold value when upgraded.

Tourney locks are not on all HPA regs that are being used. A few are true airsoft regs have a tourney hole for tiewraps to lock out access to the velocity screw. The others I have seen are just industrial regulators with a big click lock knob that can have no real locks on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uZQhe87tU0
https://www.facebook.com/natechairso...type=3&theater

oh ok guys. Does anyonr have any exprtience with the weak points in the scar and 416?

Yeah, tourney locks can also be bypassed pretty easily. But seeing as how quick change springs and NPAS valves don't get controlled it's a little redundant. There is a fix for quick change springs, but none for NPAS as far as I know.

As to your question; it's great that you're doing your research before sinking money in, but every platform will have weaknesses. What's important is, if there are mods, upgrades or fixes for it. Get what you want, but be prepared to do maintenance. My platform cost just under $2,000 stock and stil needs two mods, one typically right away and another is an unknown, but usually in the first year. It's just the way it is.

Also, Google and Youtube are your friends.

That is true but, there is no "mod" or fix for the weakpoint in the scar stock....

Perhaps an upgrade? lol

There's always something you can do. That being said, you need long time user reviews to ascertain longevity and quality.

does the use of a lipo adapter on the 416 make the trigger response worse or not as good aa the scar cause i want to jeep the gun stock?

Don't recommend a lipo adapter. I had one and it didn't have a negative effect on trigger response but it didn't hold up for very long and ended up causing all kinds of fuse problems.

If you're committed to leaving the gun totally bone stock, just buy the marui batteries and be done with it. They work OK.

The amount of reassurance you need is to damn high.

If trigger response isn't good enough for you, get a BTC SPECTRE V2 for next-gen GB.

DONE.

ELSE if you're to damn worried about trigger response, get a GBBR, there's no problems there.

So after thinking about this for a while going to go with the scar.

Dont wanna solder, and the adapter sucks apparently so their is no point in getting the 416.

Found out that there is an upgrade for the scar stock "problem" and that the "problem" only occurs after you drop the gun, which isnt a bad tradeoff since if you drop any gun, something most likely will break.

Also decided on the scar since im familiar with the platform. Also alot less of them out there.

Lastly since i like to switch hands alot, it comes ootb with ambi controls :)
saving me some money on a mag release and an adapter.

I suggest you handle the Scar first. The ambi selector on my VFC Scar SSR on the right side does sticks and does not rotate easily and exhibits bindding issues unlike the left side.

This is a common issue with ambi-selectors on almost all guns I find. I haven't had an ambi for the PTW myself, but any of my friends who've had it said it was "meh", or a little soft. Didn't snap like the standard ambi-switch. I believe MacGuyver and Chris from DDT both said that. I've had issues with the PTS Masada one, seen issues with a few others.

Oh, another thing. Some people can find that the Scar is bulky and a little unwieldy, so go to a store if you can to handle one (doesn't have to be a TM recoil shock, could be a VFC or something else) to see if you like the form factor. Compare that with a 416 or an M4 and see which one you like more.

Actually never had an m4 before. Had an aug, and a scar and a couple other odd balls. i loved my scar but, wanted a recoil shock. Apparebtly the ambi controls on the recoil shock are pretty good. On my old vfc scar they were ok, not great though. I dont plan on soldering and thats one of the main reasons im going for scar instead of 416.

"Main reason" is because of not soldering? ... That shouldn't be your "main reason," your "main reason" should be the platform you see yourself using.

If you're already comfortable with the SCAR then go for that. If you want to try a new platform, then go with the 416C.

416c? They have one of those? Sounds interesting.... Wonder wherre the battery goes with that funky stock.

VFC>other stuffs

Actually changed my mind to the 416 lol. Just gonna get my tech to do the lipo conversion. Thanks all.

I havnt shot the tippman but I own a tippman paintball gun and Serously for relability the tippman is gonna be your best bet. If reliability is important then tippman the thing will last forever. And it will hold its value because of this.

I hope you are joking. Tippmann is the king of rental pot metal guns.

Tippmanns don't exist in tournament paintball. Have you shot PE, Empire, Bob Long, DYE, etc. (billet machined) tournament guns? I also play paintball, and Tippmann is not in my collection.

I'll take Marui over Tippman every time. This isn't paintball.