TP Logic T12-W & T12-V Thermal Imagers for Airsoft
 

I'm specifically looking at these two models:

- T12-W (100+ meters/12.5• field of view)
- T12-V (150+ meters/8.33• field of view)

Does anyone have experience with either of these two models? Other models have proven to be hit or miss with Airsoft, especially pertaining to range. The idea behind these two is that you'll detect a target long before you're in range of their guns. So, have you used one? Any complaints about capabilities or field of view, etc? Insight would be nice. I'm going to be using it mostly as a spotting/recon tool and less as a sight, so it needs to accurately pick up man sized objects.

Thanks.

http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/t10/t12/

http://tplogic.com/V2/wp-content/upl...015/11/t12.png

Dan Anderson's got one, you can ask him

Honestly, I'm stoked to give one of these a whirl. I don't think I'd tell anyone on the field that I have it, just to be a dick.

guy: "Wow! No hiding from you dude, you must have the eyes of a hawk."

Me: "Nope. You must just be wearing crappy camouflage."

guy: "WTF! I'm wearing the same camo as you."

Me: "You must be wearing it wrong then." *walks away


But seriously. If effective and used correctly it could be a game changer.

I'm thinking about building a TM vsr10 with a thermal scope for night time.

What do these scopes do? Just sit in front/behind of your existing ones?

They are most often placed on an offset mount. I think you're thinking of FLIR optics where you can mount them in front of your optics. These Torrey Pines are tiny; think of them as an uber expensive RMR with thermal vision capability.

It's the size of an EoTech roughly and the same-ish shape. It does have red dot capabilities, but it's better as a spotting device. It has a few different view modes and depending on the model you get distance over field of view. I've spoken to a few guys that ran the shorter range ones and was told it's good for CQB, but not so much for outdoor/long range. That's why I'm looking at the long range ones solely. No one I've spoken to has run the longer range ones though. If I get one I'll likely run it offset. I have seen a few guys online running it in conjunction with another sight, but it doesn't look overly effective.

All the ones I've seen are significantly smaller than the size of an EOTech, Ricochet.

The smallest EOTech dimensions (XPS2) measures 3.8” x 2.1” x 2.5” (97 x 54 x 64 mm).

RMRs measure 1.8" x 1.2" x 1" (45mm x 30mm x 25mm).

In comparison, the T12 thermals measure 2″ x 1.8” x 1.5” (50 x 45 x 39mm).

The exportable ones have a really poor refresh rate, great for spotting and using in conjunction with something like a pvs-14 or D300 at night, If I were to use one as a primary optic id make an effort to try and "aquire" one of the 30hz models! If someone could demonstrate it possible to get one of the 30hz models id probably get one over gen 3s simply because of cost while in school!

Which model are you rocking?

me? I dont have one, just did alot of digging into it, currently using a pvs-7, id be very interested to have a look at one, and find out how they got it in Canada, as I havnt been able to find a place that will export even the 9hz models which are supposedly export ready.

Maple Supply or Maple something, has them listed as part of their inventory. Plus, apparently TP Logic will ship to Canada.

Trying to find this "maple something" currently

They have no guns on their site, only parts and accessories, so I'll post a link (staff let me know if I can't and I'll remove the link).

http://mapleairsoftsupply.ca/product...s-logic-t-12n/

9hz and a 60m range thats not bad at all, well over the average engagement distance for night would certainly give you an edge

I have not gamed them, I have looked through them.

They are pieces of shit. They look ugly and are coloured like cheap toys. Screen is tiny, refresh rate is garbage. They are useful for being able to tell that there is a warm blob somewhere. Past 20 metres it starts to get difficult to make out shapes. As a weapon sight, it is useless. The only way I'd find the thing useful is for spotting heat signatures through brush when they are already decently close.

The main problem I've heard is the display size and resolution. The imager the unit uses is still only 80x60px if I recall correctly, so the resulting image is kind of grainy even on a super small screen.

is it even possible then to destinguish something as a human being then at 50m? or is it just kind of an orange glow that may or may not be 50 ish meters away

Yeah well, all the reviews I've heard from airsofters are from the short range ones, not the long range versions. The pictures and videos online seem to be really good, but may be doctored to look better than in reality. Also, perhaps only the top couple of models are any good. Pedro, do you remember which model you checked out?

Side mount or 45• mount for a spotting device, not as a sight, that's my goal.

Actually just reading a few reviews online that say the screen is postage stamp size and thermal objects are like blobs, non verifiable. Some videos are convincing though.

Dr. Dreist might be a good resource to consult (from Dark Gray Project). I believe he has and uses one of these thermals.

I'm fairly certain the one I saw was a T12. The screen is only slightly larger than looking through an Aimpoint T-1. The thing is a piece of shit. If you are mounting it offset purely for spotting, you will be able to spot that there is a warm dot for you to watch out for. As for making out shapes, you'll have better luck reading the bottom row of an eye exam when you're old with bifocals.

Just look at this older model. Realise that the dude is only like 2 or 3 metres away, and see how small he already looks.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jpRWz4O_7m4/hqdefault.jpg

Yeah i feel like ill stick with my gen 3s

I have one. It's... whatever.

We toyed around with doing a few mods to make it a bit more usable. Inside a CQB space, like Picton, it could actually be a devastating little toy when combined with thermal. Once you start going beyond 100 feet, it's usability falls off pretty fast. At night, it's a giant screen giving you away, however I've used it in a defensive position known to the enemy to see people approaching through bush my NVG's weren't picking up.

I've had to go out of my way to make it useful. If you want a super cheap thermal in that price range, the FLIR TK is it. It's not going to be as good as a full sized thermal, but lightyears ahead of the TP units at pretty much the same price.

http://www.flir.com/uploadedImages/H...mal-Camera.png

The only thing I can say I liked about the TP was it's virtually unlimited battery life. It lasts forever in thermal terms.

To my knowledge MSF has switched out to a different model of thermal imager from a different company. It would be the Pulsar Apex XD50 if I'm not mistaken: http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/th...pex/apex-xd50/

Much larger, but very capable unit. I heard nothing but bad things about the Torrey Pines units from them.

9Hz? Jesus.

Thermal is no different than NV, you get what you pay for. Why is this surprising?

9hz for the Torrey Pines, and any observational thermal, is adequate. It's not gucci high speed low drag tier stuff, but it detects stuff and gets the job done. Even panning at a reasonable speed is fine. I was sitting in the passenger seat of a vehicle with a 9hz imager, looking out the window while driving at 80km/hr, and could still "see" fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC_1WxF5RsQ

If we are talking military grade that needs silky smooth panning, snapping to and from targets at high speed - 30hz still isn't even enough. 60hz is where it's at.

Because the TP unit is so small and limited in use, I legitimately don't even really even notice the frame rate is at 9hz. The 9hz is not what makes this thing crap, it's everything else about it. The upside is the ability to import it in the first place as well as the ability to legally bring it in and out of the USA without worry of paperwork boogie men.

If it's solid at spotting, then that's fine with me. The main thing is something that detects out past airsoft gun range and can be effectively used during the day and night.

On a seperate note, I didn't realize Flir had made a smaller/more affordable version of the scout. I'll look into that as well. It won't fit neatly onto the side rails of my gun like the TP Logic, but it may have other uses in my life as well.

I'm after an efficient spotting device for daylight basically. When I buy NVGs, that's where I'll dump some money one day.

I'd say they see out to 65-70m so your concern is definitely valid.

I'm with Pesto on this one, when it comes to low end thermal specs, don't waste your money. 9hz is a laughable joke. You're better off spending money on a directional microphone at that point if you're trying to detect enemy player locations.

I already run noise amplification. lol

I guess the Scout TK by Flir it is. They're compatible with GoPro mounts apparently, so that's a bonus. Price point wise it's amazing and quality is exponentially better than TP Logic in every way. The only thing the TP Logic had as an advantage was its tiny size and viewing screen, which as Delta pointed out, was actually a disadvantage at night. Mostly this is for day scrims to scout for ambushes and take away some enemy tools. The scout is still small enough to fit in a pouch, plus, I can take it camping and crap and blow my kids minds.

mind posting a quick review of it when you have it?

Yeah, absolutely. Don't hold your breath though. I gotta sell a few things before its in my budget. lol. Maybe I'll contact Flir and try and source a group buy. So far I'm trying to get info on its daylight abilities and info is scarce.

Its daylight abilities will be the same as its night time, as its not gathering any light, just heat signatures.

I would have thought otherwise. Shouldn't it's capabilities be slightly affected between day and night? The ambient temperatures during the day are higher so there's less of a temperature difference, resulting in a lower gradient on the display so it'll be harder to make out shapes. Night should be easier because everything's cooled down some, so it's easier to pick out the signatures of body heat against a colder backdrop.

I'd expect this is addressed in good units (probably through programming by using the ambient temperature as a base and using the maximum and minimum temperature range as a max-min for the display gradient) and will only be a very small performance difference, but I'd kind of like to know the answer too.

It should work in daylight, for finding heat signatures, but it could be more difficult to traverse with it. Not that you'd need to.