Communications suggestions
 

We went to our first event this weekend and had a great time, but found that communication was a big problem. We had a couple of cheap handheld radios but my son and his friend were carrying them. They had limited range and battery life, and of course once we got separated I was dependent on finding someone else with a radio to get information. As a result, I spent a lot of time not knowing what was going on, and where I would be most useful on the field.

I am looking for advice on what radios to look for. I don't want to spend crazy money but I would like to be able to monitor more than one channel at a time. Durability, range, and battery life are important.

Any suggestions?

Baofeng UV-5R and Puxing PX-888 are the common recommendations. I use the UV-5R and am planning on getting a couple of the extended batteries off dealextreme. You can get the UV-5R from DX for pretty cheap as well.

Not sure why anyone would pick up a 30-40 dollar pair of "radios" and think they would be good for comms..... cheaping out in airsoft is exactly like cheaping out in the rest of life. Except this time you annoy the fuck out of all the other players with open mics (I love listening to you breath) and cut/staticy/or otherwise garbled messages.

Puxing 888
or
Baofeng

Read the thread entitled "Radios and You".

Actually, we already had the radios because we use them on our boat to communicate between the tender and the mother ship. They work just fine for that purpose. You can hear and understand just fine as long as you are in range.
We were mostly using them to monitor chatter. I agree that it is annoying to listen to all the wannabee radio operators clogging the airwaves. The most annoying thing were the guys accidentally pushing and holding their talk buttons. One such offender had a fancy setup with a big aerial and handset. Just because you spend the money doesn't mean you know what you are doing!

I'm willing to bet most of the guys out there with fancy radios have no training on how to use them, and even fewer have radio operators licences. I have both.

Baofeng UV-5R and Puxing PX-888.

As for the other chatter; well get on there and set an example.

Those two suggestions are adequate. I prefer the Wouxun over them though. These are the cheap options to be honest. Most of them come with a charger and one battery, but buying a spare battery is recommended and you can also get a high gain antenna for about $10 - $15 more, which I've had great success with. Certainly not necessary for out here, but it helps.

After you get your radio figured out, then it's headset time. You want to be able to hear your radios, but you don't want the opposing team to. There are some decent clone ones, but make sure they're comfortable to wear for long periods of time. Or you can go the real steel route (recommended). There's a place in Burnaby called Norquip, they have a surveillance earpiece and PTT that works well, I think they're about $80 or so, plus the sized molded earpieces for about $10 (also recommended). Good comms change the whole dynamic of the game, but now you can see airsoft getting expensive. Ask for things for Christmas. lol

Yes indeed it does get expensive! I am into it for over $800 and only just getting started! That's why we used the radios we have on hand. Unfortunately we have to deal with getting sneered at for being cheap or not tacticool enough!

Oh well I was running out of Christmas ideas, so now I have a big new list!

Its not really about being cheap or not tactical enough.

Nobody is going to be running what the real guys run on the field, you simply can't get those radios. So its NEVER about being tactical enough.

Even the radios just recommended (which are great recommendations for our use) are pretty cheap for HHTs, so its definitely not a 'being cheap' thing either. If somebody try's to say it is, they need to see some of the setups me and the guys I play with run... we are kinda comms geeks though.

Blisterpack radios simple SUCK, for so, SO many reasons. They serve a purpose, and they preform that purpose well, its unfortunate that the advertised purpose VASTLY oversells them though. Its also unfortunate that their purpose is mostly incompatible with our needs at milsim type games.

Grab yourself some of the recommended radios of your choice and get some high quality headsets/PA Mic+Earbud and you will be good to go.

Unfortunately, that happens.
When you have the opportunity to make your way to some bigger, more organized games you will find that normally the only radio chatter is limited to SL/PL/Commanders, and normally these are guys who were selected because they know what they are doing.

Welcome to the hobby, if you have more questions feel free to ask.

Wow i had know idea ppl would invest so much into gear like radios, is it pretty common? when i see people goin all out as if the latest and greatest military gear was essential to their game play (maybe ill start out with a string and two cups? seeing as how i spent my whole paycheck on the actual guns)..but i do see how it could get to the point where the quality of your accessories become just as important as the quality of the guns because it reminds me of when i first played airsoft some 13 years ago. Our skirmishes were purely high school kids from the nieghborhood, (actually it was about 2001 cause i was a freshmen and my brother was a senior at a different, private highschool). My friends and i all had spring pistols (and laughed at one kid who tried using a AAbatterieg gun with 25ft max range), someone did have like an $89 spring rifle that was like the british m16 equivalent but my point is that at the time none of us had even seen an AEG, and by the end of that year only one kid had upgraded to a semi-auto greengas pistol....but then one day my brother and his friends said they had invited a new kid from there school to come out..well this kid had way more money then us and i realized that we had been playing a totally different game then him the whole time, what with our $20 P99s & spring shotguns and all...it wasnt even fun haha we were used to way more running and chasing, and now there was this guy who played like a turret, just spraying bbs no more then 10 inches apart from one another at a distance that we couldnt even reach him at...now i live in the middle of nowhere, B.C. and our small group competes fairly with aegs, and when people try to play with us and only have a shitty spring pistol that only holds 15 .12g BBs they get torn apart and dont enjoy it....well im pretty sure that if me and my friends were to play with 99% of the members here it just wouldnt be fun hahaha it seems like everyone here treats airsoft like a profession rather than a pastime, and therefor any game would be like...us marine vs somalian pirates cause we dont use radios, MIT units, nightvision, optics or scopes...then again if we get 6 on 6 thats like DDay to us..2 on 2 is pretty normal...i see insane battles in scottland on youtube and EVeryone looks like they are actually in combat lol, im suprised they feel their hits through all the gear they have on (i do want a ghillie suit thingy tho)...one guy had a minigun replica!!!must be worth as much as some cars. im not trying to make fun of people (i think alotta members already hate me), i just dont think i could afford to go all out with the gear..sometimes i see guns that are more expensive then the real things and it blows my mind...but i guess i wanna ask if someone with a simple aeg and a pair of sunglasses could even compete fairly with the die-hards with all the upgrades, accesories, camo and shit?

we are thinking of trying some grenades, they look fun

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I dont play airsoft to make new friends, i play to shoot the ones i have...

Comms are common and a huge game changer. Night vision, noise attenuation, drones, even thermal are starting to show up more and more. Technology pushes airsoft in all kinds of directions. There have even been teams that have attended official tactical training courses and self interest courses to sharpen their skills. As time goes on it'll be more of this, not less.

As for the comms, you bet...it can sure make a game or break it, kinda like the real thing I suppose. I've had a Baofeng for a while now and it's been a solid radio without blowing the bank. The software to program it was relatively quick to figure out and the channel frequencies can be gotten off of the Gov't of Canada website for GFRS. I just wish it did CB too!

An earpiece of some kind is a huge plus as well. I've got the 'g-man' style now and it works great without being intrusive to my surroundings. I can still hear everything going on and can wear light headgear and glasses without it getting in the way. Some of the big tactical headsets weren't my thing...good fro some, not for others, y'know?

The range on the Baofeng is also stellar and it never breaks up.

Now, interesting points on technology and airsoft. At some point should there be restrictions on levels of tech brought into a game so that you could have various levels of gameplay without unfair advantage? I'm all for guys who want to use nightvision or infrared in a low light environment, but if the majority aren't using it, should it still be allowed? That sort of thing...

For example, if the game is WWII or Viet Nam based, and no such gadgets were around, is that where we draw a line? Lose the toys? Or if the players want to do it 'old school'...could that be a thing?

Just wondering if that sort of classification will ever show up in the sport...

For the tech restrictions, there are a few organizers doing that. Delta runs No-NODS (name is self-explanatory; no NODS or thermals), and the WWII and Vietnam games I've heard of are for serious re-enacters and don't have NODS (well, maybe Starlight scopes for the Vietnam games).

Apparently, some milsimmers enjoy the challenge of going up against NODS without NODS of their own, but I wouldn't know lol. Warfare nowadays is usually technologically-speaking one-sided; don't see why airsoft should be an exception. Regarding that though, I have read AARs that describe opposing teams getting completely and utterly wiped out because the other side had way more NODs, so there is that. Maybe figure out how to balance the tech upon registration?

Night Vision

Bottom line, field/game organizers can restrict any way they want and they do.

Any serious reinact based games usually ban the use of all, or most things not in-tune with the main game dynamic.

Should Tech be restricted on the basis of advantage or individual budget? In my opinion, that's a hard "NO". I'll tell you why; For starters, Airsoft has ALWAYS been a game of gear and tech advantage. It's an important part of how the evolution of the game happens. Would you regulate players who have better guns, disruptive camo, training, comms? A well prepared team with reliable guns and good comms will annihilate other groups, even much larger ones. Just a few years back before flat hops and polar-stars, the difference between extremely high end guns and everything else was hugely stark. To this day my gun solidly out shoots many guns, even by 100 feet or more at times and with lower FPS/joules. Teams that bought and learned comms and practiced or even professionally trained working together have the largest advantage on the field by far. It's not reasonable to try and break them up and/or restrict comms in most cases, so who cares about one dude with NVGs? So as long as there is no inherent safety risk, like over powered IR lasers, then why take away something someone worked hard for and purchased? Everyone's budget is their own problem for many reasons, but think about this; I have kids, a wife, other expenses and yet there are people out there with less expenses and less responsibility who spend less on their gear, because maybe their priority is parting hard on Saturdays. So now I can't use my gear because they chose to spend it elsewhere? Your job, your schooling, your life, your responsibility.

I myself have no NV or thermal, YET, but run high end gear and noise attenuation and communication equipment. I've been outgunned many times by players who all had NV during a night game and managed to push through. I enjoy the challenge and I like how each step forces other players to step up or fall. Airsoft is very much a tactical game, just like real combat to point. If your enemy has you outgunned, you need to use your brains and athleticism to push through.

...or get more money...hehehe:p

I think that the use of modern and advanced tech in airsoft can be molded together with the "respect and honour" situation to a degree...

I've noticed with some Baofeng radios that they have a "dual watch" function, which means you can monitor two frequencies at one time. On one hand that gives someone a humongous advantage over the opposing team, and could be deemed unfair, on the other it could be considered a legit combat tatic.

As ricochet covered, it's usually will be up to the event admins/holders etc. if a certain object is allowed on that game day or not. From that point it's up to the player (or players) to decide if it's appropriate to use it or not, thus bringing up the "respect and honour" ideaologies.


Now what "honourable" and "respectful" means IS going to vary from person to person, hands down. Peoples opinions about whether or not night vision should be used, or if someone should be allowed to listen to the other players, changes between different people.

It could also vary by the caliber of the game: is it a Milsim game? a game with all your buddies? The Local CQB/outdoor field?

It's up to the player on what he brings to the field and what he finds acceptable. On top of that, other players have the choice on whether or not they're gonna put up with tatics like that or not.

In the end, if it's within the rules, the choice is yours to make, However, assess the situation before making a decision. Consider the factors in the scenerio such as the other players and the type of game you're at. If everyone seems cool with it, have at 'er! Otherwise some choices might piss people off, make them leave and then you're sitting there tac'd out...plinking but a lonely tree! :D

This goes for anyone playing (or thinking of playing) airsoft.



On the other hand, I've been looking at getting a Baofeng BF series radio myself. The dual watch is a great idea for if you want to listen to the team channel and you own squad channel for example. They also seem to be fairly popular at the fields i've been to. I am guilty of using the cheap ass blister-pack walkie-talkies myself and no earpiece, so i figure it's time for a change!

Well, personal skill and teamwork is definately priority one. But BBs that are motion seeking wouldn't hurt either.

Dual Band radios like the PX 888 are actually pretty useful. At our field, we will occasionally use channel "B" (listen only, not broadcast unless you actually go select that channel) for game command. Any issues or emergencies can be effectively broadcast to players that are capable of receiving it, and they pass the word along. Channel "A" would be our squad channel.

I have never once heard of teams spying on another team's channel. I guess my field does play with a lot of Honour though.

Dual channel (not dual band, dual band would be like the 888K that uses VHF and UHF) is actually really not all that awesome with single transceiver radios at big games.
There are too many people that talk too much when they don't need to at the lower levels so that ties up your radio. You could end up listening to a 2 min long transmission of somebody's hot mic and miss out on all the good info being passed on the other channel.
If you hit your PTT at the wrong time you can end up on the wrong channel and not know, or you could be spending some fiddling with your radio every time you need to swap transmitting channels.
So its really only useful at the upper end of the command chain where there are less people on the nets.

At smaller games its cool, but often not needed since you can fit the whole team on one channel anyways.

Dual radio/PTT setup is the way to go for this function (aka more money! :D )

As for spying on comms, its not unheard of, usually does not happen, but even when it does its pretty hard to detect. This is what code words and nicknames are for, determine them before games and use them always.
There is also the option of switching to digital as well, but again, money.

yeah, i would find the dual channel to have it's pros and cons...

I personally don't know if any of the games i've been to used that function to spy on the opposing team, it's just one of the things that me and my father discussed about when he got his comm device.

Either way i'll keep shopping around, I got a few days or more knowing that Canada Post might go on strike in a couple days

Depends on range, honestly. There is no reason that a handheld GMRS radio can't operate effectively for less than a football field range, except that everyone around you is probably Txing at a full 5W and will likely overpower any transmission you make.

Be smart, don't keep your radio around your waist and you should be fine.

I've only been to one game in over ten years where listening to enemy transmissions was allowed. Almost 100% of the time it's not an allowed tactic at all. That includes jamming enemy transmissions to, which can be down by keeping a radio keyed on an enemy channel. My Wouxun also has a encryption function, where only radios with a code will hear my messages.

ehhhh, thats only true if your radio is getting a stronger signal from the jamming radio than a team radio AND if it is transmitting a sound that overpowers the speech from your team.

Normally a jamming transmitter will end up being on the other side of the field, so anybody close to you will easily overpower that. The way our grade of radios work is to just look for a a signal to open squelch, once squelch is open anybody talking on that freq can be heard.

What radio do you have? I kinda doubt it does what you think it does.

UVD1 I think. I'll have to look when I get home. I've seen many times were transmissions were disrupted by cheaters at games. Sure some of the comms may get through, but it makes it nearly futile to use them at times.

The scrambling/encryption on just about all Chinese and blisterpack radios is simple voice inversion (AKA record played backwards satanic message)

Well, since he said "code" I'm thinking he is referring to CTCSS and DCS, neither of which are by no means encryption of any sort.
Until you move into digital radios, then there are codes that will use different encoding for that signal, but even then its not encryption.

That could be, but it does work.

Any recommendations on base stations for command to work with Puxing or Baofeng handhleds. ideally in the sub $250 range?

Yeah that jamming/eavesdropping shit is about as welcome as a turd at the picnic; in there with shrugging hits because they hit your plate carrier, jumping boundaries because you're special forces and all that "Who Cheats Wins" stuff.

Sure it "happens" in real life but in the context of most organized games it's off the table. Why the newer players with a bright idea will ask? Because even with an admin channel the radio is also a safety feature in case of an injured player or if someone not in game wanders into the play area.

None - just get a PA mic and better antennas for a hand held.
The hand helds we use are already way over powered for the FRS/GMRS frequencies, they are not even supposed to be in the country.
We barely sneak under ICs radar as it is (they are on here) so starting to use higher power, cheap china 'base stations' with poor filtering and spurious signals everywhere would start to get us noticed.

small games where your not using all the channels sure, sometimes, depending what you are expecting from it.
But CTCSS and DCS certainly does not work, Anyone can hear you.

Unless you have a radio which doesnt recognize CTCSS, then they can hear you. Something easily doable with the more advanced radios like the Baofeng but not with the blisterpack GMRS radios.

As the most common radios used are amateur radios for most airsofters, it is important that you know that none of them are capable of any kind of encrypted transmission. In order to be accepted for use in Canada they have to be in line with Industry Canada standards which means all amateur transmissions must be 'in the clear'.

CTCSS and DCS inly control your squelch. If you all have it set you only hear the transmissions that have the same code as you, by having the same code your squelch opens up. However if you have a radio which you can turn off the code you will hear all transmissions including those which are being transmitted with a CTCSS or DCS code enabled. Thus includes the cheap blister pack radios you just set the code to 0.

With CTCSS or DCS you only control the squelch and you are not encrypting anything.

I ordered up a pair of Baofeng UV-82 radios for my son and I, in anticipation of the next scenario event coming up, Operation Panzerfaust, coming up at the end of October.
I chose the UV-82 because of the dual PTT feature which allows you to monitor and transmit on two different frequencies easily, which seems to me to be a pretty useful to maintain comms at the squad level and command level.
I understand there is some setup involved once I get the radios, such as programming the channels. What channels should I have programmed in order to be best prepared for an event? Are there particular frequencies that admins tend to favor? How do other people have their radios set up?

Program in the standard 22 FRS/GMRS channels, otherwise you need a radio license and pay per channel, per radio. Not that many do, but the public channels work fine, most people have them and you can't get in trouble for using them.

FRS/GMRS
01 462.5625
02 462.5875
03 462.6125
04 462.6375
05 462.6625
06 462.6875
07 462.7125
08 467.5625
09 467.5875
10 467.6125
11 467.6375
12 467.6625
13 467.6875
14 467.7125
15 462.5500
16 462.5750
17 462.6000
18 462.6250
19 462.6500
20 462.6750
21 462.7000
22 462.7250

For headsets check out Norquip in Burnaby (they won't program your radios without a license), but they do have affordable/quality headsets. Ask for Andrew, tell him Lindsay sent you. I recommend the Pryme surveillance earpiece with 2-wire PTT, and yes get the little moulded earpieces, it's worth the few extra dollars. Hell, Andrew might even throw them in if you buy two. Your Boafengs should be dual-pin Kenwood.

I would add that it is very useful to program in the environment Canada frequencies for weather whatever that is in your area.

A couple of times I've sat watching the weather start to go bad at a game and switched to my weather frequency and decided to stop and get better clothes or gear for the changing conditions or just leave.

We got the radios today, and yeah the included earpiece is a bit tinny,and not terribly comfortable, but damn, some of those Pryme units cost more than the radios!

Yeah, the Baofeng's are quite affordable compared to some of their competitors, but they aren't the best ones ones on the market, though better than adequate. Those headsets though are the low-cost/affordable ones. Some of the Pryme headsets should be affordable. Maybe for Christmas.

For the price the Baofeng seem really well built. The volume pot feels tight and smooth. The housing is good high density plastic and the buttons feel pretty good. Apparently an antenna upgrade is cheap and improves range and reception quit a bit, but we tested them when my son was delivering papers and they were loud and clear with me in the house and him a couple of km away in hilly terrain. Definitely a huge upgrade over our blister pack radios!

Ok, so I just got the Baofeng UV-82 and I would love to find a good tutorial for setting it up for common airsoft use. Does anyone have a tutorial or instructions that they have found to be good? I'm attending Higher-Ed later this month and I am trying to be as ready as possible so that I'm not bugging folks when I get there to take me by the hand and get me set up...

Thanks

I bought a high gain with mine years ago and it did help, though it isn't necessary. Mind you I've played on some huge fields. But at $10 or so, who cares really. Spare batteries aren't a bad idea either.

Your gonna wanna program the channels in the radio to the frequencies Ricochet was so kind to post earlier in this post. They can also be found in this wicked "Radios and you" thread here on the forum. A simple how to add/delete channel can be found here

I would ignore a lot of the info this kid is giving, just use the video to figure out how to delete a channel, and how to enter a channel, don't worry about the ctcss settings for now, learn about those settings later and decide if you wanna go that route....just focus on how to use functions 27 and 28 in the menu so you can program the channels listed above

Thank you! That video did not come up in any of my searches... I kept getting folks who were more concerned with the frequencies than the actual programming!
(and about 20 minutes later... programming is done! Just the basics mind you but thank you again for the video and link to ASC page!)