Team Gear
 

Hey everyone, my Airsoft team is getting underway and we're having a really rough time looking for some uniforms. At first we wanted OD's but after researching I discovered they aren't very effective as camo, especially not when compared to CADPAT and other new camo. CADPAT unfourtunately is too focused on a certain type of terrain. We're looking for some sort 'all around' camo (anywhere from Forests is BC to Urban/Indoor areas). The closest thing I've found is the Propper ACU BDU's found here: http://www.botac.com/propperarmyacu.html. I really like the look and idea of them and was wondering if anyone had any practical experience with them? Is there any other similar camo that people like? I'm fairly new at this, as is my whole team so any help would be much appreciated. Also, what color TAC-gear would you recommend with such camo? I'd go for black, but it's hard to say.

ACU isn't that great in the woods

IMO CADPAT works great in most wooded areas.
I'd recemmend Woodland or DPM though. If you want a Digital Cam still, I'd go for MARPAT.

Don't use black LBE, etc. Go for green or a camo that matches your uniform if thats what you want.

Well, we need something that can be used indoors and in winter as well and CADPAT doesn't seem to do it for me. Also, I really should have mentioned that being unique would be nice (seeing as everyone and their dog has CADPAT). What was the problem with the ACU in the woods? Too much grey?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but could you expand on this slightly:

What's 'DPM' (am I going to be shot for asking that?). Also, isn't MARPAT something we'd end up wanting the Woodland and the Urban version of?

Some of my team really don't have tons of money so one decent all-around camo would be the best thing for us.

It looks like Multicam would be a good all around camo.

You will be spotted in matter of seconds wearing ACU in the woods. At least it didn't take me long to spot people wearing that stuff. OD is actually not as bad as you think since camo is just an additional tool to ones skills. OD is pretty universal, works as long as there is some green vegitation around you.
In my opinion, out of all types of camo I've used DPM and fleck works the best.

DPM is the British Woodland.

DPM is the British style pattern.

The problem is that there is no such thing as an all around camo. As far as I'm concerned, an all around camo is a comprimise . I would suggest picking a pattern that you feel comfortable in the bush with. Indoors, it doesn't really matter what you wear. Most indoor fields are dimly lit and it's not easy making out different camo patterns anyway. If you need something for winter, invest in winter whites. They are cheap to purchase at surplus stores. You wear them over your clothes so it doesn't matter what you have on underneath.
The multicam is fairly unique but I think that eventualy it will be fairly common when prices start to drop a little more.

Indoors... don't matter? Hmmm... funny cause they have Urban camo's for those sits... you know... the black and grey...

But yeah, your comprimising on going with "multi-role"... but "US Multi-cam" is so damn GOOD. :D

Multicam sucks ass out in BC, except for very few areas.
believe me I had enough of the stuff.
Best camos in BC, Flecktarn, British or Dutch DPM, Woodland and Marpat.
Cadpat is also very effective in the summer.

Thanks everyone for your help. I just have one last question. If the ACU is so inferior in the woods why is the US army adopting it as the official uniform? Is it because they only fight in deserts/urban environments these days and the ACU works fine there?

I did note that the ACU pattern looks lighter than I thought it was in most pictures. So I can kind of see why it wouldn't be great in the woods. Still, it just seems odd to me that they'd use it officially if it's no good, ah well, you people have more experience than I do so I'll trust you I suppose.

I will say personally that multicam seems to deserty and dry to play with in BC, a lot of dense forests and dark browns etc...here and the multicam seems a bit more 'arid' than that. Flecktarn might work well, I'll have to take a closer look at that as well.

Also, out of curiousity anyone got pics of ACU in action? I searched a bit on google and couldn't find any.

Please keep the comments coming! It's super helpful!

Urban camo is a farse
find a team guy anywhere that wears it
for urban ops, you will still find guys wearing what they are issued camo wise or solid colours.

To blend with what? A chair, or maybe a door :)? If there is enough light no matter what you wear people will see you when it comes to urban settings. If there is not enough light, no matter what you wear people won't see you :) Well, except for really bright colours of course.
I wore ubran, US woodland, DPM, Fleck, bunch of different Russian patterns and just regular civi stuff in CQB. It all works the same, maybe black works a bit better but not too noticable of a difference. Everything depends on light.

Aaidin, you pretty much answered your own question. I remember reading somewhere that US plans to have most of the action in desert and ubran settings. As for pics of ACU, check gallery and after action report section. Couple of guys from Snow Dragons have ACU, I'm pretty sure you will find their pics here somewhere.

here is a High Res pic of the 82nd Airborne in theater using ACUs.
also, coyote, tan, khaki or ACU gear works best over ACU

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3...istan111yu.jpg

Here's one story I've read:

Crye Precision developed MultiCam with Natick Labs. Natick isn't the oganization that was or is tasked with finding a new camouflage pattern for the US Army. That was PEO Soldier. PEO soldier developed the ACU pattern, the commander of PEO Soldier liked ACU pattern, and PEO Soldier didn't even know that Multi-cam existed. The ACU pattern was adopted.

Multicam wasn't even on the radar of the people who were making the decisions. Looks like a matter of one hand not know what the other is doing.

Not the first time an organization burned mucho dineros to develop an inadequate piece of equipment, CF Tac Vest anyone? Still, ACU's starting to grow on me.

Camo is like cars, you like Chev or Ford? now they perform close but there are differences. Then there are ugos... ugo=multicam. multicam=poop IMO I have an ACU setup and love it. People say there is no accounting for taste... I should know i like ACU and Auscam, just wait till i get some digital Auscam!

For your team depending on thier budget I would suggest Woodlands, being cheap and eveywhere. If you have alot of cash to throw around i would get somthing off the wall like say... Danish M84.

Aww, c'mon dude. I wouldn't mind if you equated MultiCam with a Chrysler, but a Yugo? Damn, you cold as ice!!!!

Check out his location - i'd hate Multicam too - only because I couldn't use it.

They also have pink camo but I don't know where I'd use that. In my opinion "urban" camo was just a way to differentiate police forces from military forces. Some of the public don't like the police to look like a military unit. It's a perception sort of thing.

Thanks for the pic, but I was asking for ACU being used in a woodland setting, guess I should have clarified.

Also, whoever suggested the M84 stuff it looks fairly nice I'll look into it a bit more. Again, this is up to a team decision, but all the info I've gotten so far has been good. Please keep it coming. Anyone in lower BC have any camo they find works particularily well?

Well, in the one time I've played(which was feb.18th), just looking at other players in the bush, the Marpat seemed to work quite well. Cadpat is a little too rich in colour for this time of year, but in the greener areas it worked well. Woodlands is always a pretty solid bet, and it seems Marpat would be too. For summer play cadpat seems prime, but something a little duller in colour would be better for all year 'round.

I just wanted to say that maybe you ruled OD out a little fast.
We tryed it on our field, and for a solid color, it was impressive how easy it was to loose the guys wearing it, only to find them 10 feets in front of you after carfully scanning the place. It work very good in dense wooded erea and in most other greening or brownish places. For indoor it's great too.

It was my second choice for our team uniforme.

Plus OD is cheap as hell these days. But yeah M84 is fantastic, just a bit pricey.

Hmmm...well, after talking amongst ourselves one thing we all like a lot is the actual design of the ACU. The way the pockets are designed, the zippers, velcro, etc...basically if we could find that in any other color we'd probably be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake. Are there any other currently made uniforms with that design? Or are we stuck picking based on design vs. camoflauge?

I think ACU is the only one in that cut currently, and I totally agree, I wish our CF uniforms were in that cut, it's awesome looking, and seems like it should be really functional. Just that ACU=teh suk.

Not sure what the vegitation situation is in your area, but I'd seriously go with an effective camo pattern, rather than just go with a uniform that looks real pretty, think about it, your realistically not going to be going into your shirt pockets that much if you have an LBV or TV or chest rig on, so that shouldn't really be a top priorety, as long as you get an effective rig, and decent pockets in the pants, you should be good to go.

Oh yeah, feel free to laugh but as it stands none of us like Tac-vests/rigs. Since we only play for 4-8 hours at a time right now, with breaks, we can carry all we need to in thigh pouches. Maybe if we start holding larger actual mil-sims we'll get the vests...but not right now. So nice pockets would actually be nice.

Our vegetation is mainly dark coniferous forest (some deciduous). That said I think Woodland BDU's, OD's, or MARPAT would be the best (and most cost efficient choice) as far as actualy camo.

What you're looking for is a RAID BDU. Do some research on it, most of those have to be specially ordered and cost in average 100$ US a piece. You'll get the same functionnality but in woodland or tri-color desert. Most of the companies that makes Multicam BDU will have those kind of things on their BDU too.

If it's mostly coniferous, woodland works great, The Franchise was wearing woodland at our last game and he blended in fantastically in the coniferous area of the field. You want something with a fair bit of brown in it for that type of vegitation, and hey, if you can keep everything in thigh pouches and not have to keep a tac-vest on top of your shirt, that's awesome. Certainly a good way to keep yourself nice and "high-speed, low-drag" :P... But seriously, less bulk, easier to move.

Yeah, totally, I hate tac-vests personally, I'm not too big (5'8" 145-150 lbs.) and they're just too cumbersome for me.

Brakoo you get a fucking gold star for pointing me in that direction!

http://www.specwargear.com/RAID.html

Just a quick site I found, looks like they sell, and they will do different patterns.

Edit: Looks like pretty good pricing too

It's perfect except for one little detail. The price. I can afford it, so can some other team members but it'd be a bitch to get new players their gear when some players can barely afford a gun...That's really, really, crappy. Seeing as that's pretty much perfect.

Hmm.... That's pretty brutal, $100US with shipping basically, for the shirt, and you can probably pick up the pants in Canada for cheap.... I'd see what kind of price it'd be shipped with a group order and look into it... That's not very expensive at all IMO...

Considering the quality, etc...and the fact we could even get it in MARPAT or some other digital camo (we'd have to order the MARPAT ourselves and send it in) it's not a bad price. I'd say $250-$300 CAD each and we'd have ourselves jackets and pants...I'm ok with that but it can be expensive. Especially for a new-formed airsoft team.

If you like the ACU cut contact ICE Tactical I believe they're in BC they can make you a set of BDUs for $200 (not sure if its CAN or US prices). They do Multicam, ACU, Cadpat TW & AR.

www.icetactical.com

Again, another great link, thank you Eddie.

Anyone got experience with multicam in southern BC? Coniferous forests, etc...?

I haven't had first hand, but my TrgO tried some ACU on our last Ex and it...well...stuck out. It tended to look grey and blue throughout the forest we were in (Stave Lake).
I was wearing CADPAT and my 2i/c was in DPM and we were well hidden in the hills.

I haven't had personal experience with Multicam, but my TrgO wore his set on our last Ex to Stave Lake. The colors went pretty well when he was moving through the thicker bush, but it was a little too light for when he got into the open trails, etc..
My opinion is that it'd be a damn great year-round camoflage for the FV area.

Not sure about southern BC but gallery here has bunch of pics of guys from BC wearing multicam. Check events - BC section. Looks like there is actual multicam team there.

You're not going to find a single uniform that works in all environments. Sorry, hard truth.

WPT has 3 official uniforms, and each has it's time and place. Cadpat for summer and dead of winter, Marpat for spring / fall, and an indoors CQB setup. We also have plenty of fringe uniforms that get worn for opfor events or in places like the K-town "desert" field (RIP).

We're testing Multicam right now - I have senior members of the org who think it will be effective, but my eye says otherwise. We'll find out.

If you need something that will be effective in MOST of the environments you play in, get something like Marpat or even Woodland...its cheap and plentiful. When you start playing in other locations, or you find your uniform is not as efficient in different terrains, make your move then.

Aaidin

More to check out ---> http://www.oneshottactical.com/merch...tegory_Code=CL

I can do a team discount for you.

Like the guys have said though finding something that works year round and multiple enviroments isn't likely.

Multicam is great for spring and fall but there are better ones out there like Cadpat for summer.

Why would you have to send in MARPAT uniforms to be modified? They already come with pockets on the sleeves.



One thing to watch out for with the thigh rigs, chaffing.


Also, regarding the US Army an wearing ACU. Some units only wear ACU in garrison, but on FTXs they wear their BDUs, since BDUs blend in an are tougher than the ACUs.

Here's a couple pics of ACU in the woods/grassy areas
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2904/acuj9uk.jpg
https://peosoldier.army.mil/images/s...S_2696_low.jpg
https://peosoldier.army.mil/images/c...M_1730_low.jpg
http://www.peosoldier.army.mil/image...MOLLE_1753.jpg



Also, all that talk about needing a Urban camo is BS. Military does not use any type of urban camo. The USMC trialed a urban camo pattern in the late '90s, after that Ex it was never used again. In FIBUA, etc they wear their normal woodland or desert uniform, depending on location of the training area. In theatre its all DCU an ACU for Army an Desert MARPAT for the Marines.

When your doing FIBUA an kickin in doors, etc the best camo in the world isn't gonna help. The enemy will see you, there is nothing stealthy about fighting in doors. Camo is a not important, speed, aggression and teamwork is key.

MARPAT uniforms
 

We're about to do a run of our Advanced BDUs in TW MARPAT.

Hobey
icetactical.com

In that case, plain ol'school OD green.

Then can very likely get cheap knock-offs off of Ebay.

When they either:

A) become gear whores
or
B) get serious
or
C)tear apart the cheap stuff

They'll go invest in quality stuff. Till then, it doesn't really matter, as long as it's pretty close.


It's funny how my airsoft stuff is generally of better quality then daily life "gear" (LSHD) I carry on my belt... I think the only "fast" thing is a key-loop I use to hang our Remote paddle for our battery-powered cart pusher. :lol:

We use Marpat woodland and Desert. 150$ for issue boonie hat, jacket and pant.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/gallery...7_original.jpg
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/gallery...7_original.jpg

You guys have been amazingly helpful, so thanks for that.

Now, we seem to have it narrowed down to *Flecktarn (can't seem to find any canadian retailers who stock it), MARPAT TW, Multicam, CADPAT, or Woodlands...probably in that order. Thoughts when comparing the four. One thing one of our players brought up was how dry it's been getting here in the summers lately, rendering CADPAT less effective. I can't seem to find any pics of MARPAT in use really, especially not in terrain similar to here.

Rock on man. Good luck getting it settled down, and hopefully you guys get something that works great.

Last I checked Flec was available all over the place at rediculously low cost. It's also a great alternative, and works well almost anywhere in Canada.

lol...love how you've "narrowed it down". You've "narrowed it down" to just about every common pattern.

It sounded better in my head, lol.

Heres a good example of a team in urban camo: http://www.propstore.com/images/prod...amocap-dvd.jpg

Flec, Woodland are two cheap and effective patterns that work in most settings

That pictures makes me want to hear the sound of my gun switching to full auto...

Fleck is a cool pattern but the cut of some other patterns is far better. I'd be lying though if I didn't say Fleck is probably the best camo for the area.

Da Ali G movie mon!... lol I love it. Yeah, lookin' forward to getting my fleck, but after finding that site I mentioned, I might see if I can get it in a RAID style top.

No guarantees but the more we look the more it looks like Flecktarn will be our team gear. I would also look to see if I can get a RAID style top done in Flecktarn, that would be incredible.

Thanks once more for the help everyone.

So your saying i should avoid Neon colored spandex overalls?........... :(

Gen2 ACU in wooded and not so wooded settings, summer:
LINK 1
LINK 2

Gen2 ACU in wooded and not so wooded settings, autumn:
LINK 1
LINK 2

Fleck and some desert Marpat at Wasaga, autumn:
LINK 1

As you can see, ACU doesn't blend too well here in the general Ontario landscape. But it's still what I usually field now, just for variety sake, and that it's a fairly well designed uniform (style/functionality-wise). I'll be fielding my Gen3 ACU at the Stargate game, won't see much of a difference though - slightly darker green in daylight.

Is there a way to tell what generation it is? My set was made in November 2005.

That'd be Gen3 then...

I had took some pic comparisons, Gen 2 vs. Gen 3

As one can see, not really all that much different. But ACU's colour is definitely different depending on light.

to blend better I'm going to never wash my ACUs with the exeption of paint

Nice pics, Phalanix, especially this one.........

http://www.mediumdose.com/gallery/album37/agw

I can't tell if we make the Flecktarn look good, or if the Flecktarn makes us look good.

Both, I suspect.

;)

Should be getting our team order of Flecktarn in place fairly shortly!

N'ah.... u guys are just too damn sexy. *lol* Yah, sorry that pic's a bit blurry. :-P

Don't be sorry, 'Shakes'/CRASH took that pic.

Gettin' old! *lol*

Anyone know any Canadian suppliers of Flecktarn? Or are we stuck ordering through the UK? I can find some surplus Fleck in Canada, but nothing with consistent stock. Any help would be appreciated.

Daves Army Surplus usually has a fair bit.

TT MAV. Wonderful piece of kit. Cheap as hell, too.

TT MAV?

Last piece of spoon fed info you are getting from me

http://tacticaltailor.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=126
http://tacticaltailor.com/index.asp?...PROD&ProdID=77

I apologize, I was actually asking what the acronym stood for so I could find information easier. But your link was helpful, saved me some time, and I appreciate it, I don't know why you had to be an ass about it.

Ahh, my apologies, shoulda been a bit more precise. But yes, MikeL covered it. Top-notch quality, great prices, although, I'd highly recommend the X-harness. Else, the straps dig in a bit after a while.

my team in multicam
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gh0sts/multc.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../npshow032.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/gh0sts/mc003.jpg


joel
of Bay Ghosts

And have you found it effective?

yes it seems to work pretty well in most places, other than that, it looks good lol