Anything wrong with keeping a glock mag loaded w/ bbs and no gas..
 

So is there? I heard that it makes tension and weakens or compresses the springs where it wont go all the way up anymore.

It's an old wive's tale. Keeping magazine loaded, any of them, is fine on the springs. Loading and unloading actually causes more wear, compressing and decompressing. In firearms the cartridge cases can squish a bit out of round, but those springs can be pretty powerful.

Uhmmm I dunno, I left BBs in my Mid cap(M16) one time... and now its fked...
GBB mags? I dunno but I wouldn't risk it.

All my Glock mags are fully gassed and loaded, pretty much all the time.

Never had a leak, or any problems with the spring losing it's tension.

then why do people who know there stuff say to keep your AEG spring compressed to lower your FPS if it is shooting higher then 400.

It is a bad idea to keep a GBB spring compressed all the time. The same rules apply to real handguns.
So you have a choice between hearsay and experienced advice.

Because we don't read the FAQ no more Fox, its old outdated and saves too much time! No we must make a thread on this topic! Because it hasn't had all the crap kicked out of it yet!



:smack: anyone not realise thats SARCASM, well :smack:


And buddies in the back thinking compressed springs are "ok" and "nothing will happen" .... :hammer: is going to be YOUR new hobby pretty soon.



You should keep your mags empty, and oiled when not in use, store in a cool place where there isn't much moisture, NO moisture if you can help it. So that you can keep :duke: away...


And anyone that keeps their real steel mags fully loaded and ready to go. I want your name and address, because thats unsafe storage! RCMP! WE GOT A DUMBASS! Not only does it ruin the magazine it also makes the thing illegal and the more illegal guns they pull of the street the more that board of regristry can say "We helped!" when really they just twittled their thumbs and stole credit.

I unload all my G19 mags after a game, and make sure there is gas in each one. Had enough leaks spring up because of no gas in the mag for even a week. Gets annoying to have to deal with it. Any mag I've left gas in has never leaked, some that have had no gas in for a bit didn't leak, others leaked badly.

Physics tell us that springs wear out from being cycled (compressed and uncompressed repeatedly), NOT by staying compressed. People have dug up Colt 1911 magazines left loaded since the First World War and the springs still function fine today.

Now, here's the caveat. Real firearm springs are nearly always high quality spring steel and have far more engineering put into them. I HAVE seen airsoft springs take a set from compression probably because the steel (?) used in them is of inferior quality. Mag springs aren't typically found as spare parts which means a worn out one usually necessitates a brand new mag. If you have the opportunity to ease the tension on your mag springs then go for it, but don't think you're going to ruin your mag by leaving BBs in it for a few weeks.

Maybe Gryphon is most right, and poor-quality toy magzine springs made out of low-grade spring steel might suffer plastic deformation. But that doesn't apply to real firearms.





I don't want to pass judgement, but I think you've been to close to the Liberal heartland for too long. I think you are saying that the registry is bad, and we agree there. And I think you're suggesting that anti-gun folks will twist any statistics they find, and we agree there. But I disagree about your interpretation of the storage laws, but I understand that those laws are very vague (by design) and thus subject to a lot of interpretation. That's why so many people are Charged with unsafe storage, but charges are not convictions.

To show that I understand the vagaries, I knew a guy from Russia who immigrated first to Ontario, and took firearms safety course there. He was taught by a former police officer, and was told in no uncertain terms that it was absolutely illegal to use a firearm in self defence. I took the same courses, in Alberta, and was told that it was absolutely legal, if you're reasonable in your fear for your safety and such. They did mention that "The first 6 shots are no problem, but the 7th is harder to explain." Lol, referring to a hypothetical situation where you had a revolver and reloaded to continue firing after someone had fallen down.

Considering that I used to give those courses, even basic gunsmithing courses, maybe I know something? Up to you guys to believe what you want.

For a whole lot of legal and mechanical reasons; do not ever leave a magazine loaded unless you are going to shoot it in the next little while.
Yes, some folks leave ammo in mags, yes, sometimes it causes zero problems, but the practice is discouraged because the last thing you want is a malfunctioning magazine.

Is the risk worth being too lazy for some preventative maintenance? That's your call guys. But think about it; even in airsoft, a gun with a faulty magazine spring is a fancy paperweight.

(Revolvers dont care because they dont use a magazine, but it's a legal problem)

greylocks is right !... pay attention to some common sense guys.

cool, for how long were the bbs kept in? month, year?

I so love wasting my time... You will take the advice of a (no direct offense meant) 20 year old fairly new guy and ignore the advice of others, some of whom have more than 20 years of Experience? That's more experience than the guy has being simply on this earth breathing.

Do the math?

Hell, nevermind. Do what you want. Keep a GBB mag loaded and charged in Florida weather, go ahead. Dont come here to complain later.

I took a gunsmithing course too Grey, they let me know that you put more wear and tear on the firearm by cycling the action then when you leave it in a cocked position, god knows why you would want to leave it cocked though, but it is designed to stay in a locked position no matter what firearm we're talking about here, it's perfectly fine on the internals.

Ok, you took a course and you are 26. I gave courses and I practiced for about 26 years... how much real practice do you have? A few years? With how many types of guns? Handguns? Rifles? Blackpowder? Others?

With practice you learn what works, what does not work, and you get the benefit of having seen it happen.

We're talking about airsoft here, totally different animal, enormous quality differences, and it's about magazines not guns.

Real guns; magazines are to be empty, bolt/action/slide/hammer springs are to be kept decompressed while stored. That is the standard procedure. Anything else is taking a chance you cant afford to take in real life.

Again, if the gun or airsoft is to be used that day or within hours, this is not even a problem unless the weather is extreme. Weeks and months? No.

A gassed-up mag full of BB in Florida heat left alone for days? No. That takes no gunsmithing course to understand, it only takes going to school long enough to follow a Physics course.

I'm not 26, I just entered a random historical date.

Lets see I've been an Army Weapons technician for around 5 years now, I've handled everything from 9mm pistols to the 84 MM Carl Gustav anti-tank rocket launcher, with some limited experience on the LAV weapon system and a bit of work on artillery, I've taken 3 different very lengthy courses where I learned what I know now and I keep on hand several maintenance books.

I wasn't talking about airsoft, I was talking about real steel, obviously.

I really don't care how long you've been at it, when you say something that is obviously wrong I'm going to correct you.

Fair enough, 5 years experience. Good for you. Why did you put an incorrect age information in your profile then?
What I said applied to the original question relating to airsoft magazines.

What I said about real guns I stand by. Please describe the magazine fed handgun where the manual recommends that keeping it cocked and locked with a full magazine under tension during storage is standard procedure.

Even better, feel free to provide a link to said manual.

Or to keep it simple; if you disagree, then agree to disagree. But at least stay on topic.

That wasn't what we were discussing, in fact I even said "god knows why you would want to do it", but that it would cause less damage keeping it cocked then if you made it safe and fired off the action once unloaded.

As for the fake age, I really don't think it's any of your business what my birthday is and I don't care you have a problem with my putting a fake age on. I'm of legal voting and drinking age, that's all anyone needs to know.

It's a credibility factor, that's all.

I'm glad you brought that up. Claims of vast experience mean squat unless you can substantiate them. So tell us, where and for whom did you teach gunsmithing, and what was your curriculum?

Beep-Beep-Beep! Oh, the popcorn is ready, brb. :lol:

Late 70's (correction), RA Gun Club, smithing on S&W, Colt, Browning, CZ, High Standard, Ruger, Mauser action rifles, Lee-Enfield action rifles, H&K products, muzzle-loaders, cap-and-ball, small artillery pieces (under 6-pounders).
Upgrades, reloading, maintenance, repairs, rebuilds.
Position? Chief Training Officer, and one of the very few licensing officers back then.

Happy? How about you?

Forgot a few other brands; Walther, and Luger. There's more but the list is too long.

I've been around since early 2003, I've even met you when I went to Ottawa...

That doesn't mean I have to share any of my information with you.

AEG springs are made of steel - unless it's bent or cracked, whether its compressed or not isn't going to make a difference - however minute.

Some of the GBB springs are made out of tin, or a cheaper mixed material, so they tend to get fucked up easier. KSC Japan Glock mag springs seem to hold up to being loaded over long periods.

Keep a little gas in the mags when you store them. Protects the seals/o-rings.

Ding dong - ah Pizza's here...

Good fucking lord what in the nine hells...Grey - have you been left alone in the Florida heat for days?

If you want to say that loaded magazines shouldn't be stored for mechanical, practical or other such considerations, fine. However, don't say it's illegal in Canada because it's not.

So long as the magazine is not in the firearm, i.e. loaded into the magazine well, the firearm itself is considered to be unloaded. Normal safe storage rules, as defined by the Act, apply to all ammunition regardless of whether it is in a box, a plastic baggie or a magazine.

Don't invoke the law to spread misinformation.

If you want to get involved in a pissing match over who knows more about what, great, but leave the Act out of it.

Bleh, cops say that kind of shit for the same reason everyone else does. They like to sound like they know stuff. A lot of people will make up shit and act like they know things, even when they don't know the legislation.

Perfect example, ask the average person on the street what the "legal" length of a knife is in Canada. Most will say that it's six inches, despite the fact that no such law exists in Canada.

KD

Legal reasons; check the latest versions of the PAL courses. If you think policies about airsoft are anal, those about real guns are worse.

The (real) pistol must be; trigger-locked, magazine removed, ammo removed from magazine, magazine stored in the same locked container as the handgun (but not in it), ammo stored elsewhere.
So it's partly the laws (for simplicity) and mostly the policies. Seems that every time something is said here, a full novel must be written.

Mechanical reasons; GBB mags are not made to the same standards as real guns. Fact.

Physics; depending on how long you keep a GBB mag loaded and (fully) charged, the weather does matter. If the temperature is hot, like in Florida, you DO increase the internal pressure of the magazine. The lower quality spring compressed by the BBs will, over time, become weaker. Fact.

That's as simple as it gets. Now the only thing anyone has to decide is if they care to follow simple maintenance procedures or not.

Although I do not own a GBB, I can make a comment on metal and springs. I am not an expert, but a Mechanical Engineering degree helps out a little bit.

If what It_poncho states is correct, and the springs in GBBs are tin, then it would not be beneficial to keep them loaded with BBs. Tin, like steel, and all metals for that matter, have certain physical properties. One such property which makes them distinct is its malleability. This is what allows metals to be worked with so readily for bending, especially under heat. Every time a spring is compressed, this malleability will make the spring not fully expand again. This is happening at an atomic level, and would not be visible for possibly thousands of cycles, depending on the material. The longer the spring is compressed, the more the spring "wants" to stay in that position.

Now with the example of the WWII mag found still functioning. That's no surprise. If it was indeed a steel spring, they are resilient. Tin on the other hand is much more malleable than steel, and would be affected far greater than steel. So the moral of today's story is that storing a magazine loaded, from a physics point of view, should be avoided. However, I have no idea how long the magazine should stay loaded before there is any noticable effects.

Bottom line, Greylocks is correct from a firearms safety point of view, and a scientific point of view.

I don't know how they do things in Quebec because I know they have a habit of, shall we say, infusing their own brand of BS to the already restrictive federal legislation. However that would apply to one province only and blanket statements that apply there are invalid for the rest of the country. Having said that...

Correct, if you are storing it in a simple locked container like a gun case. It does NOT need to be trigger locked if it is stored in a vault or safe.

Wrong.

If it's still in the gun, yes. If it's out of the gun, no.

Wrong.

Partially correct. If stored in a vault or locked room it can be stored with the firearm.

That's mainly due to the fact that you continue to give false information that requires constant correction.

Just so there's no room for argument:

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for-r...ransport_e.asp

Having a mechanical engineering degree should provide you with more intelligent things to mention besides malleability. Malleability is to do with plastic deformation once a material is stressed beyond its yield stress. Going into 4th year mechanical engineering myself, I know damn well that metals being compressed, as long as they do not pass their yeild stress, will completely recover their elastic deformation. I'd have no problem storing my GBB mag full of bb's since theres no way the spring will yeild, so the deformation is completely elastic, and thus recoverable. Also, since a GBB spring will never yield, the only way it is likely to fail is by fatigue. Fatigue is caused by weakening of a material due to repeated loading and unloading. So, scientifically, nah... he's wrong.

Needle, perhaps you should pay more attention in classes. Malleability is not restricted to any substance whatsoever, let alone plastic. On an atomic level, intermolecular bonds are definely affected if a spring is fully compressed.

May I recommend summer remedial classes.

Written laws, and stated policies, are not the same Gryphon. Policies are not written, they are told to you as you stare back wondering where that shit came from.

You are entirely correct about the written laws and directives, not about the applied policies.
One can be argued with in court if need be, the other is open to the interpretation of the enforcing officer.

You should know that. And that's why there is no way I can make any sense trying to explain it. It's not because I dont know the facts, but because the facts and policies are stupid.

This is turning into a never ending circular argument. Some agree with the mechanical issues, and the legal issues, some dont.

How about this gets dropped? Points were posted for either option, up to the original poster to decide what's right.

LOL frankiet... get your money back for you iron ring bro. "Plastic deformation" does not refer to plastics deforming. Have you ever seen a stress/strain diagram for steel? Plastic deformation in steel occurs after the "yeild stress" is reached. Once this point is passed, the deformation is termed "plastic". Lets stop talking about grade 10 science and atominc bonding and talk materials science... wow

See what I mean? It's becoming an argument between engineering folks.

And knowing a couples of enginers... this will get bad!!! :innocent:

So you should go sit in the corner now - and LISTEN instead.

I was pretty sure about what Needle contributed, but I don't have any mechanical engineering degrees to back my assumptions.

WOW.....everyone stop!

I just read through this whole thread. All I have to say is FUCKIN' WOW!!! It started as a simple question, and now on to physics, metal stress points, my brain is bigger than yours, type of argument. Why don't you all just whip out your cocks, I'm sure one of you is holding a ruler as we speak.

Simple answer is, don't be lazy, unload your mags and you won't have to worry about it.