Schedule Conflicts, or cutting each others Grass
 

I was wondering if Hosts of games bother to look at the schedule before deciding to schedule a game?

Seems like there is a tendency to cross schedule games. Fact is there are only a limited number of active players in southern Ontario. If there are 3 sometimes 4 games scheduled all within an hour and a half drive of each other, are we not kinda shooting ourselves in the foot?

would it not be better to co-ordinate? and work a schedule so that there was a game every weekend somewhere but never , or infrequently more than one? This way attendance at all games would likely improve.

For example... I scheduled a game at EOTEC 5 weeks ago, for this Sunday.. for 3 weeks there was nothing schedueled against it. Now.. there are I think 3 other games schedued in southern Ontario and most of them have been calling for more players. some of them are skirting field minimums...
It is certain that some payers will jam out.. and be no shows .. some of the games may then fall under field minimums, risking cancellation or worse pissing off the field owner an jeopardizing the use of the field in the future.

Now I know that some players won't play at some fields .. or won't go to games hosted by certain people.. that is a whole other issue, and when dealing with humans unavoidable, but if you had the choice of one game on any given weekend and another game on another weekend then you could pick and choose which one to go to.. and those who are not particular could all go to the one game making for better attendance at all games.

In the end everyone benefits, the hosts get solid attendance,and don't have to scramble, nor do they have to "compete" with other hosts. The field owners get more revenue for each game assuring the future availibilty of venues. The players get larger games, and don't have to deal with the question of which game to go to.

There is one overriding stress for most Game hosts.. "am I going to get enough players out to make it worth the time and effort I put into this?
All it takes is a couple of poorly attended games to sour most on hosting.
When a Host sees 2-3 games scheduled for the same weekend.. it is a dissapointment because you know that your game is going to suffer a bit because of it. I don't think than any hosts go about willfully scheduling against other hosts, I do think that there is little thought put into scheduling, and this is what I suggest we improve.

I recommend that we improve the communication between hosts and use the Calendar included in this Site to schedule games within the same player base.
We should try to ensure that games get scheduled in each region each month but that games do not get scheduled in the same region on the same weekend. This way we can all reap the benefits of secure playing fields, large well attended games and happy and motivated hosts.

What say you hosts?

I can see a few reasons for hosting multiple games - 1) some games like the flagswipe one on the 23rd, are intro games to field who haven't supported us before. This kind of thing can't really be forseen; 2) and some folks just like some fields more than others. While someone may want to play a milsim game at EOT, there are others who just want quick skirmshes, such as those played at FR.

My only complain is when someone posts a large event, weeks in advance, only to have another player host a similar game at a closer venue, a week or two before the larger pre-planned game.

.....

PS - everyone sign up for HA2-Leftosovo now....

Well I can't speak as a host but as a player I would like to make it out to games to meet some new faces. But due to a stupid work schedual and the fact that some of the games over lap as much as they do while triing to organize rides and figure out who's going to what game, it can be real difficult. There are alot of people on this board in Ontario I haven't met and would love to meet on the field. it would be incredible if we could have a large game on a single field where every one got to meet and have fun. So far Quick pass has been the largest for me and the turn out was amazing. I think that would be cool in Ontario. People are going to host games that over lap but once in a while it would be nice to have everyone out to a single field and have an old fasion shoot out. then we can all join hands and sing coom by ah.

I've never had a problem getting players. In fact, the numbers are increasing. Some, or should I say - most, fields are paintball venues we in fact "rent" the use of for the day. Thier largest source of revenue is from the paintballers purchasing paintballs. The entry fee's from airsofters is simply extra revenue.

well I know this past weekend we shared a field with another game..but the one I hosted wasnt a public event and it was planned Weeks in advance.

Generally I avoid scheduling public games that coincide with others, and if I have one planned and another person posts a game that may cause a conflict that would actually concern me about attendance then I would contact them and see what we can do to resolve it together as hosts (attendance issues with DragonOps last year for example).

However this year now that Dragon Ops is no longer a consideration, my concerns about attendance is minimal and revolves around people flaking out on games at the last minute. as Atreyu said, by renting the land off established Paintball fields we have a lower risk factor and no minimums to meet, worse case is if we cant get a group of 15-20 players we just cancel the game.

Brian, it's not a question of who or where, it comes down to preference. Players will come where they know of a proven host or venue to be to thier own personal liking. Perhaps it comes down to customer loyalty, or perhaps lack of choice. Either way, the players will go where they want no matter what is offered them.

No one had anything posted for the 22nd for a little while, I went with the first game I saw. Not only that, but I've been sorta wanting for a while to see that old FlagRaiders field.

well said.
in ottawa we dont have many players. maby 40 max. so we dont have enough to run to fields at the same time. Its a shame however, because there are games that I definatly DONT want to goto...not to mention, with only 1 field, its the same people all the time....same games all the time...same field fees...I mean really, how many time can you play a milsim downed pilot game befor you want some good old hicap allowed capture the flag.
Im not a fan of 2nd best...so if there is a shitty game at one field, and a better game at another field, or one field is simply more fun then the other, you can bet your ass im gonna spend my money where I think ill get the best return for it.

variety is the spice of life.

I think this is the best response to the question.

That being said, I'll add to this.

If I have a choice between WP Muskoka (my home field), Flagraiders, Wasaga and Eotech, Muskoka wins hands down. There's nothing anyone could offer me to deter me from a weekend at my home field, short of some insane container ship or verbotten CQB action somewhere.

It would have to be something REAL special to win my time from Muskoka.

If nothing's happening at Muskoka, I make my decision based on the following:

1) Where are my friends and teammates playing?
2) How comfortable am I with the venue?
3) How comfortable am I with the person hosting?
4) How much driving do I want to do this weekend?
5) Am I in the mood for a milsim game, an EVENT (entire weekend), or a day of skirmishing?

Now, I KNOW that WP will not host a major event if we know of a similar major event being planned at the same time. We try to post our games very clearly in advance; that being said, we also know that there is a given number of the community who will come to our games over most others simply because they prefer our location, company, and the kickass barbeques we throw after the game.

We ALSO know that there are plenty of people in the community who would rather take a day trip to Flagraiders then camp overnight at Muskoka, either because they don't have the time to commit to the full weekend, or the desire to attend such an event. As such, we don't generally balk at FR or Wasaga games that are hosted during one of our weekend events. To each their own, and the more choices the better.

Ultimately, it's up to the players. If I'm hosting a game at a new field, and I can't get numbers to attend, I would ask myself why, all things being equal, I'm not getting the numbers needed to run the games I wish to run. If a Flagraiders game easily draws away all my potential players, then there's evidently something wrong with MY game or venue, and/or something RIGHT or BETTER, more attractive, about the other.

Thing is, these scheduling conflicts can stop new players from trying out a variety of fields. Not everyone has gotten themselves involved in the airsoft politics, and simply want to get out and play as much as possible, meet new people, and all that fun stuff. It's those new players that hurt the most from these scheduling conflicts. They're not the grisled grumps that won't go because so and so is there, and are willing to try new stuff. So unless you like having the same players at every game, then at least give this some thought. Planning the schedule, or at least discussing it, isn't such a bad idea, so long as it's done objectively and in a friendly manner.

All good points, and valuable Insight, Thank you
 

I think that everyone has offered really helpful comments, and I appreciate it.

I think that much of player choice comes down to familiarity. People go to places that they have gone before, to where people that they know are going. This makes complete sense, it's human nature.

There have been according to my research a number of ventures to create "airsoft only" venues in southern central Ontario. Most have failed for one reason or another.. but underlying all the reasons is a failure of the player base at large to support them while they get going.

People choose to go to familiar places with familliar people to do familliar things... and the one thing that everyone says they want.. a place of their own where they can do what they want to without accomodating field owners, paintballers..whithers on the vine.

I am not talking about preference..some people will not go to certain fields, will not attend with certain people.. but really this is a minority. the majority of players will happily go wherever there is a game.And if theire is 3 games they will go where they think they will have the most fun.. which will be where they have had fun before.. where their friends are going... If there is only one event going... well the likelyhood is that they will go there.

All I am saying is why don't we make an effort for co-ordinate a schedule so that we can all help each other be succssful.

And successful is not about money.. it about offering vlaue to the attendees, a good experience, with challenging play in a environment that everyone enjoys.

It is easy to say, "Well I don't see any trouble... it does not seem to affect me" but it does.. If I host a game at EOTEC, and there are 2 other games going as well .. potential attendace is reduced at all three.. meaning that although you made your roster.. you could have had a larger attendance if the schedule had been co-ordinated.

All I am proposing is that we use the calendar on this site. post our games in there and have a care for other games scheduled so that we don't conflict too much.. can we see a downside to this? is there any way this could hurt anyone?

Last while in ottawa we only ran 2 fields and we alternated every other weekend. So every week we could play at a different field. Each field got 2 games a month.


this year one field went private to its home team and only runs 1 public game per month and its players dont play at the other field. So public games for Ottawa get cut in half and the other fields player base runs around a dozen or less.
One team has tried to host more games by working out times to use a local paintball field, but still many players from one field wont go. Its a big division of players and degrades the local community.

Proper co-ordination between fields is a good idea. Ottawa's alternating schedual would have worked if it wasnt for player group comflicts.

Atreyu's right...it comes down to preference at that given period of time.

Sure, sometimes you feel like milsim, or an indoor game, other times, you feel like going to FR and playing at an entirely different pace.

Sure it sucks that attendance may be a bit low sometimes if you host a game, but diversity of game types is one of the things that makes this sport great.

EDIT: Also, personal schedules may come into play as well. Some days, I loathe driving all the way to Cambridge for a game, especially with the gas prices the way they are lately, others, I might actually *be* in Cambridge already for the weekend visiting my gf's parents. There's many factors that go into what games people attend.

I think that not scheduling big games concurently with other events could be avoided, but to take it to the other end of the spectrum and say that we shouldn't host anything the same day as anything/anyone else is a bit extreme. If we start restricting people's choices and say that "this is the only game this weekend, so you either come or don't play....", people will buck that. They will feel forced, and it eliminates options for those who are transportationally handicapped, have dislikes to a particular host/site, or don't want to drive far out of thier way. I don't know about the rest, but I'll continue to host games so long as people are willing to come out, regardless of what anyone says. Keep in mind that a host doesn't make any profit off hosting, and most times doesn't even get to play himself. Once I get my field up, I'll be having games every other weekend.

I know where Brian is coming from. Its competition. Good for the buyer bad for the seller. Everyone in the food chain has a different place and point of veiw. It all depends on where you are in the chain. If I was the only place you could come to buy toys I'd be happy. But, I'm not so I have to work and spend a lot more time than I'd like to working in the business :hammer: and still after doing so much an un for seen variable swings in and upsets your efforts. :banghead: Its disheartening. But hey at least I enjoy most of what I do. :mrgreen:

OK, then.
 

So.. the prevailing approach seems to be... I don't care about anyone else.. as long as I am happy

I don't get it... what is the problem with having a care for others?

When I schedule a game.. I do it weeks ahead.. and only on a weekend that no one else has scheduled, Why? so the players don't have to decide, so groups of friends won't be split as to which game to go to.

when I see game threads that say... "need more people!!! or we may have to cancel".. and I see 2 other events scheduled against it... After the first one.. all of them are hollering for more bodies.. it got me thinking...

hey why don't we just use the calendar.. and try to avoid this doubling up?

We have heard from some hosts.. and most don't seem interested in collaboration or co-operation, why I can't fathom... what about the players?

As a player.. what would you rather see?

3 games on one weekend all with ok attendance .. then 2 weekends with nothing.. or one event every weekend that is more likley to be well attended?

Most players only really go to one or two games a month.. very many much less.
If it is the one game you are going out to this month would you want to have to chose from 3 games on one weekend.. which has your friends all split some going to one some to the the other... or pick the one game that interests you and plan to go?

What do the players say?

no reason to compete
 

True enough... but if there is no good reason to compete.. why do it? Other than for hubris sake.
as Atreyu says it is not like Hosts get paid... for the most part the only ones making money are the paintball places. And they don't give a crap about us.

If there was money to be made I understand competition.. but there is not.. so competition is self defeating.. is works against us not for us.

it is a simple thing... plan ahead, put your game in the calendar. and if there is one on the weekend you had planned.. choose a different date.

This way when your game comes up.. everyone who plays regular will be at your game, plus all the folks that only play at your games plus all the ones who only go to the field that you host at.

Every field would then have a big game every month rather than 2 small ones.
As most people only play once a month ... it will service the needs ofthe community to advantage.

If you look at the events section Brian, you will see that there ARE events almost every weekend. I've only heard of a couple of events where the host has been forced to cancel due to lack of interest. This is about the PLAYERS and the availabilty of games for them to attend. personally, I prefer a choice of events to go to on a given weekend. And don't forget the silent masses of players who don't even bother posting before going to events. I now always add for 8-15 "show-up" players the day of. Now I know you provided an example of a problem you have, but I'm kinda curious as to what was the motive for your starting this thread in the first place...

This is not a regulated body, and the minute anyone tries to regulate it in such a way, you will find less hosts, and even less players at games.

Plenty of reasons to compete...it's a BIG Provience
 

This one I have to take issue, cause it disrespects and generalizes all the paintball fields.

FR has been extremely accomidating towards the Airsoft Community. Joe opened up use of his old property just to allow us more options in field variables, he allows us to play late, and to schedule other games around us. while he doesnt make the extra money off of us in paintballs and rentals, he knows that we're loyal to the fields we like and strives his best to provide us with Refs that stay out of our way and when we have the odd problem of a conflict with another group he actually deals with the problem instead of giving the prefrence to the Paintballers. We Airsofters bring him year round business and he does his best to make sure we're happy with him , his staff and his fields (3 of them now..one being indoor at which he has specifically said we can play on weekends unlike a certain PB indoor field in Toronto). I for one wish all the fields we play at were as accomidating.

As for what Army Issue said...Competition is good for the Buyers..that would be the Airsoft Players. And it makes the Sellers (and that would be the fields/hosts) work that much harder to give us the best product (and that would be games).

During Summer season there are games practically every weekend, sometimes both Saturday and Sunday. The more locations offering games the more the transportationally challenged are given options of where it is easiest to attend. Narrowing options isnt the answer. Though if you have a game conflict as I said earlier, you should contact the host that your conflicting with to see if there is a solution. They may have reasons that they are hosting that particular event that your not aware of. The hosts have to communicate these things if they feel such communication is required however they shouldnt be forced to do so.

I would love to hit Wasaga more often as it's a great field, but due to distance and time it's not as possible for me. But there should be no reason why people who are closer to Wasaga then Cambridge should be denied a game just cause I'm playing in cambridge. And one of these days I really want to play up at Wolfpack Primary cause it sounds like a great experience, again time and distance has a factor. The more options a player has...is a good thing.

That's a good point, about not having good reason to compete, because the hosts aren't making money.....except for one. You are the owner of your field/CQB school/whatever you want to call it, so IMO, you are being biased against competition, because, although WE as players, benifit from compteition, YOU benifit from the lack thereof.


Most of the rest of what I wanted to add, has already been said above, so I won't repeat it.

Nic

Don't start like that Torn, all the feild owners are looking to make a buck. Can't pick on Brian because he's the only one that aggressively persues AS business. Joe has been involved with the AS community for years and has a lot to do with the perpetuation of the sport.
How someone operates a feild and deals with the players is totally up to that person. Same with my shop if you don't like don't shop. But don't presume that you can tell me how to do it either. ( I still like to get the customers input though) :salute:

Distance and time is the big factor for me... Though there is a paintball field that I now skip because it just doesn't do it for me.

Also I choose by who's hosting, if any of my friends are playing. I don't generally sign up for saturday games because I can't get that day off work...

hell i've seen 2 games going on at the same field multiple times (FR and wassaga)

.[/QUOTE]

That's a good point, about not having good reason to compete, because the hosts aren't making money.....except for one. You are the owner of your field/CQB school/whatever you want to call it, so IMO, you are being biased against competition, because, although WE as players, benifit from compteition, YOU benifit from the lack thereof.


Most of the rest of what I wanted to add, has already been said above, so I won't repeat it.

Nic[/QUOTE]

I am not biased to competition.. I don't see the point of it.. when it would be better for the schedule to be planned a bit better, so that there are not multiple events in the same region at the same time. How is it good for the players to split and go to 3 different events with middling attendance.. when they could go to one with good attendance?
The way many of you speak.. you would think I am saying "don't play at anyone elses field but mine" I am not. I would make the same suggestion if I was not a Host\Venue owner.

Would it not be better for Atreyu's game to have 10 more players at it? Rather than having those players at some other game with 14 people at it?

Would it not be better for that game with 14 people at it to have 24 or 34 at it because they are not at Atreyu's game?

Would the Venue Owners not be happier with one game with 30 people every other weekend.. rather than games with 14 people at them?

This ain't rocket science.. its basic business.. and self evident to anyone who has taken more than 30 seconds to think about it. There are a finite number of consumers.. it just makes sense for the service providers to co-ordinate to maximize the number of consumers at each event. Everybody wins.

Venue owners. make more $ per event. Costs are fixed.. mostly, it costs the same to run an event with 14 as it does with 34. More $ per event.. makes them happier.. and gives the organizers more clout with the venue owners because you are bringing in the $.

Hosts feel more fulfilled because their events have good attendance.

Players have more fun because they have bigger turn outs.. and all their friends are at the same game.

Players play at more places.. meet new people.. the community becomes more intergrated.. and more powerful.

Can someone make a rational argument as to why this is a bad idea? Really?

As for making money... I don't personally make any money .. The expenses of operation far outstrip any income. My space downtown costs me $65 000.00 a year.. not including things like insurance... overall inclusive of all expenses the operations cost $70 000.00 a year Total revenue from all Airsoft activities since start up is somewhere around.. $6000.00 so as far a revenue goes in the whole operation .. it is a drop in the bucket.., Add to this that I have to put about another $5000 in shortly to make repairs and replace equipment... clearly I don't do it for money.. I do it because I enjoy it.. and I have the resources to provide services to others so they can enjoy it as well.

I simply cant figure out all this overt.. ( and clearly covert) hostility towards what I am trying to do..I am not trying to "take over" I am trying to facilitate success for everyone, venues, players, hosts alike.. Why does this threaten people?

Everywere I turn all I get is "you're just in this for the Money"

No I'm not... the paintball places... now they, are just in it for what they can make off of airsofters.. Regardless of how much they have "supported" airsoft.. They have done little to accomodate airsofters..

I on the other hand, asked what the community wanted.. and provided it to the best of my ability...And I will continue to do so..

What I would like to know is just what are the Issues here? why so much resistance to an Idea that anyone with an ounce of sense could see is a good one?

I would personally like to thank Brian for the effort he has put in. I have attended my first game last Friday at TAC3, and from the way I see supplies dwindle (which he provides) as well as gear, I can pretty much confirm that this isn't exactly money boon. Being involved in the commercial building business, I can confirm that rent alone in Toronto would negate any revenue he pulls in from airsoft. I don't think that money is his motive here.

Truth is, having more players in a game is a definite plus for new players (at least for me). I'd much rather have a game with 20 people in a field which isn't my first choice, than have a game at my favourite field with only 10. The whole point here is not to try to segregate people here. I would love to play with people from other areas, even if I had to travel occasionally, as long as they meant larger games. The easiest way to do this is to plan schedules ahead of time, like Brian has done.

That's my 2 cents! (from a newbie point of view)

Number of people at a game doesn't mean it will be a quality game. As long as you get enough players to have a good time that's all that matters.

Agreed, but you definitely can't have a quality game with 4 people, or no people at all because it gets cancelled.

Ah the Senior Airsofter has spoken...

Lisa is quite right.
As an Experienced host Quality is not determined by numbers of player but the players themselves.

While conflicting schedules are unfortunate reality of summer season play, again if you have a big game your promoting then ask the other host. Simple solution, promotes co-operation and understanding, unlike what we're seeing develop here.

Now to the newest player commenting

While I know you are fresh to the sport and enjoyed TACC3 on your first outing. A 4 person game can be quite enjoyable, also a 10 person and 20 person game. It's all about the people your playing with.


Brian you attended my Stargate game. you had fun. did it matter that there was exactly a 23% flakage on attendance at the game to how much you enjoyed it?

It's who you play with that matters..now how many. Morbius who's been doing this for what? 9yrs + said pretty much that.

You want high attendance, you need to build quality into your games. Plotlines are just a minor aspect of a game. Props (structures, fireworks, non-AEG weapons are your tangible aspects and are very important), themes/mood (WW2, Vietnam, Stargate) and players already interested/signedup (this suprisingly can be quite important to some) affects your turnout. Not saying that you havent already incorporated these but you may want to tweak some to create the perfect game where a lot of people would show up.

Also, the most memorable game I've been to had only a turnout of 18 or so but had many of the factors listed above (Meats Nam game, tied with BL2 nightgame)

Still not Answering the point
 

I agree that numbers don't make the game... we have had excellent Ops at EOTEC with 10 people there..Some of the best nights at TTAC3 are with less than 10 people

Lets not cloud the issue.. This in NOT a my games are better than yours issue.

This is about working co-operatively as a community for the benefit of all.

this is not a big issue... All I am saying is Don't cut your mate's grass.

If you are a host .. and want to run a game .. fine do it.. just TRY no to schedule it against games that are already on the slate..

If you see that the game scheduled is a hardcore Milsim.. and what you have in mind is a highcap bb fest then maybe you don't need to worry.. different crowd.. less conflict.

I am NOT talking about regulating anything... I am not talking about sending in an application in triplicate for a certain date.. to the Airsoft game approval commission.

All I am saying is have a care for the other hosts out there and try not to cross schedule . Use the calendar.. and plan ahead and we all can reap the benefits.

OK... let me say this... I try not to step on anyone's toes .. If I see a game scheduled I won't schedule a game for the same weekend.. as a courtesy to my fellow game hosts... is it too much to ask for the same respect in return?

So, what you're saying, is that you don't want anyone to book a game at Wasaga, or FlagRaiders, on the same day as you have a game at TACCT.

Which, after checking the games section, surprise surprise, is every week, every weekend day. (and, I'll be damned if a few of them weren't booked the week of, a few weeks after other games were booked on those days.

You can't have it both ways, Brian.

TTAC3 operates on Tuesday Night.. Friday Night and Sunday night.. in the city of toronto.. Inside.. for CQB only ...I don't see a conflict.
That is a straw man Torn.. and a frivolous argument.. for the sake of argument.. and beneath you.. make a real point

What I am saying is I don't think it is constructive for us to plan to have a game at FR and FR old and a Wasaga on the same day.

Or at FR, Wasaga and EOTEC on the same day...

I agree that all venues do draw their own crowd but there is cross over..
If there was informal agreement to try to avoid scheduling conflicts then every host could get a maximization of attendance.
Which provides benefits to everyone.
Notwithstanding .. that very good games can be had with few attendeees.

Whereas scheduling conflicts does not profive benefits... that have any tangible effect.

Sometimes I masturbate with my left hand. Why??? Because it's different. Variety is the spice of life. Who cares if there are 60 or 16 at a game? I've done both and at each game I've had a great time.

In the last year (the time I've been playing). I've only seen one game cancelled due to lack of players. The reason I think was because it was in the winter.

Southern Ontario is rather large and has a diverse mix of players. Not every game will meet these players needs or desires. We in southern Ontario are blessed to have several excellent teams and hosts who put on regular games at several fields to meet these different personal requirements. I don't think we should be viewing it as a bad thing if you get low attendance at a certain event. It just means the people willing to commit to playing that day had something different in mind than what was offered at one place instead of another.

But what do I know? I'm just some guy who plays. I've never tried to host or organize a game. Untill I do I'll stop talking......er?....typing.......you know what I mean damn-it.....

No don't stop... we need more player input .. thank you

I can't say I've gone to the games hosted on ASC, but here's the way I see it.

A game doesn't need a large amount of players to be fun. A 30 vs 30 player game is played very differently than a 15 on 15 or 10 on 10. IMO, different people look for different type of games, some prefer 1 huge milsim, while others like having muliple fields like at Wasaga or FR. I personally like smaller games just because it feels more intense, and spend less time on the sideline after being shot. (At least that's how I feel when I go play paintball with a group of friends)

As long as turn-out rate is good enough to host a game (which the general feedbacks agree), I don't see a problem of one field having a big game and another having a small game.

The example which you gave, of players at FR new, and FR old at the same time.

That is not by accident, in the two cases in which it has happened this year, it has been because one game had too many players for the one host to accomodate, so the new FR was opened up, for the overflow.

As for having games at FR and Wasaga at the same time, it comes down to player preference, also, I can't speak for everyone here, but I do speak for myself, when I say this. With gas prices the way they are, I don't want to drive 200km to go to wasaga, when I have FR right next door, and I'm sure the fella that live near wasaga will say the same.

You forget that airsoft is secondary to his martial arts business. The overhead is split up between all Brian's business ventures in that building.
I have not attended a TTAC3 event. I have always wanted to try the place out but my schedule and lack of funds has not allowed me to do so. I have had to pick and choose where and when I can play. Playing with familiar faces and locations tends to win out in my situation. I don't want to risk dissapointment in trying a new location or host with my limited time. I play airsoft for fun. It's not a strict regimen that needs to be adhered like attending a Gym. Unfortunately when I look at TTAC3's website and see monthly membership dues it makes me think of a Gym. I know that there are pay as play fees as well. It's just something that lingers in the back of my head that I just can't get past.
I prefer milsim games. I tend to base my attendance on that. That being said, I tend to go with what I find familiar. The scenerio has to fit what I'm looking for in a game. I agree that hosting a bunch of games on the same day in the same local may be a bit much but people want variety. Thay want to be able to choose. If a game organizer decides to plan a game for the same day as another's, he's likely cutting his own attendance as well. That may not be the smartest thing to do on his part but it's his choice.

TTAC3 memberships are there for the sole purpose of saving hardcore players' money. I only get to play there once a month if I am lucky because of distance and schedules, but if I lived around the corner I would be there all the time. The membership was made for people who want to play 3 times a week. If it costs $20 per game to play, that is 60 per week. If a one month "Membership" costs 60 bucks per month, that equals three weeks free.
I can assure you that Brian is not a money making machine. He will probably not like me saying this, but the last time I was there, he did not even charge me or my friend. AND he gave my buddy a free beer. Believe it or not, but my impression of Brian is that he is doing this because he loves airsoft and the comeraderie.

Thanks for that... you are correct... airsoft is not the only revenue ... and really I do the airsoft stuff for selfish reasons... It is fun.. and it is fun to see others having fun.

What you say about going with what you find familliar really has resonance...

Everyone who has come out to EOTEC has liked the field.. and many have become regulars...
Getting people to risk it... and come out has been the challenge.. I have put a lot of the barriers up myself... making the field a invite only venue.. makes people wary
I guess it will take time... this is only our first season...

Ok now that is a valid point, thank you..

Proximity is a issue.. for some.. but really how often do most people play.. How many actualy play every weekend?

Sure some do.. heck I know guys who play 2 times a weekend if they can.

In the winter there are some guys who put in 12 hours a week a TTAC3.. but they are not the average player.

For the majority I think one local game a month is all they participate in anyway.

Lets not get things out or perspective.. I am not advocating less games.. all I am advocating is more thought in the scheduling of games.

Look Brian, not to "bust your balls" as you said elsewhere, but in all my time on ASC, you are the first to complain about this. As I said before, not many games get cancelled due to lack of attendance, but granted it does happen. Maybe if you attended more games at other sites, and met more players in person, you'd be in a better position to speak on other hosts games. And when I say attend, I don't mean in that annoymous, walk through 007 style and walk out again. Maybe if people got to meet you at other games, they'd warm up to you a bit more

Valid points Alex, however this issue was bound to come up eventually - the amount of new field openings has been outpacing new players for a while now, seems like everyone with 20 spare acres fancies themselves a field owner these days.

We have a fairly healthy player base in Ottawa, with three fields, however what we saw early this season was one field falling into disuse with the majority of players as there were simply too many venues for too few players.

I'm not surprised that this happened first in TO, just that it took this long.

To play Devil's Advocate Brian, you seem to have an extremely hectic event schedule month to month, perhaps cutting back a bit in the frequency of your hosted games would increase player turnout?

As well, getting in touch with the other major field organizers and hashing things out could work - locally here in Ottawa we post our games well in advance, and have managed to hammer out a bit of a "gentleman's agreement" when it comes to scheduling to not divide the player base.

Brian's not the only host to voice this concern. I have seen this same argument voiced in the past.

The only difference is that in the past, the player base in southern Ontario (toronto region) was much smaller and the difference between TWO games would make or break a host's planning strategies.

Now that the player base is so huge, we can afford TWO games on the same day, given that one is a skirmish-based game and the other is a milsim. When a THIRD party shows up that encroaches on either one of those two gaming ideals, that is when further issues pop up and I do understand Brian's concerns with this issue.

In the end, it is up to the player to decide which game to attend, but as hosts, you all must come to some sort of executive decision to play nice with each other to help each other out.
As a host, you hold a further responsibility above the "regular player" and you must begin to assist your fellow hosts as well.

That's just my point of view and I hope that this discussion brings forth further compatibility and pre-planned gaming events that will accomodate all player bases across Canada.

This has gone beyond mole-hill --> mountain... I think we are on the scale of a new unseen planet here now. [Snap] Accept things as they are, because, if there's one thing I've learned about ASC - things resist (and rarely) change!!!

Responsibility of Leadership
 

Agreed... this has gone from.. hey guys look at the schedule before posting your game... lets help each other out a bit..3 games on the same day is a bit much...

To ... I don't know what...

Change has to be driven... by people who can.. Atreyu.. like it or not you are in a position to affect change if you want to, if you accept the responsibility that your position as a successful host places you in.

You .. and every other person who chooses to Host, could choose to work together ... or .. not

The people who can't affect change have to accept things as they are..You don't, you can change them.

Ok, one more time.

People will play where they want. If there's no game where they want to play, they won't play.

We've been here before. Over and over and over and over....the ASC Wheel of Pain....

so basically what Illusion has said and so has Kokanee.

If you see a scheduling conflict, contact the other host and see if you can work it out.

maybe if I bold it..hmmm?



lol, aint it fun driving in circles Morb? I think there is a comercial that visually demonstrates it..or is that NASCAR? :lol:

and lastly as I have said in some form or another in every one of my posts in this thread.

If you see a scheduling conflict, contact the other host and see if you can work it out.

Thank you..
 

And this is exactly all I was saying... have a care for the other guy.. look at the schedule.. communicate... co-operate..
It is not hard to do.. with the tools we have..

I think it's the Toyota Yaris commercial, with that little red Yaris going round and round... ;)

It is. And just like that commercial, we get out, walk around a little confused for a bit, puke and fall down, and then get right back in and keep going in circles.

This horse is beat
 

can we close this thread?

so we can stop going around?

remember what happened to Splatters when that became too familiar...i think one season two winters ago we played there every single week and sometimes twice a week and this winter we hardly played there at all...i think there was one game...

people like choices...and lots of em...if people were to play FR everyday then it would eventually wear thin but it would take longer as they actually have props on their field

and why does it matter if field owners put together their games...your wanting your games to have a higher attendence but like youve already put in this thread EOTECH is invite only so that means closed to the general ASC public that would usually be at FR and Wasaga... so now im confused...you complain that you dont get enough people to games or that no host is...and the complaint is valid...but then you close your EOTECH games to the general public HOW OR WHY WOULD WE COME THERE IF WE ARE NOT INVITED....Hmmmmm FR Game that is Public....or Crash EOTECH at an invite only game that Im not invited to but for some reason STILL GETS POSTED ON ASC EVERY DAMN TIME

sorry for any guff...im tired.

[offtopic]
LOL :D
I'm too lazy to check it now, but I remember there is a nice and simple wording there :) lol again
PM to be invited!!! :)
[/offtopic]

For me, as a player, 3 games in same day is way too much to choose from :) specially when I try to shoose between two potentially GOOD events :)
Cheers!

you are invited... I made a point of inviting every member of every recognized team in Ontario.

Any other person is welcome to come as long as you PM me and ask to be put on the roster.

My games are invite only to the degree that you have to ask to come.. I have never declined a request to come to one of my games.

I need to know who is coming, I need to have a list of "invited guests" for every one of my games.

I don't allow people to just "show up"

I don't play at EOTECH. My problem is EOTECH has nothing keeping regular hikers and walkers from walking through the games unbeknownst to players or themselves. We had an issue with Oz meeting up with a hiker and his dog.....Hiker was scared shitless of gun.....Oz was scared shitless of dog.....made for a bad scene. This was after we were assured that this would not happen. I am not trying to stir up shit, so lets not make any attacks, on EOTECH or myself, just a simple statement of fact.

That sir, Is an outright lie...