CO2 cartriage powered artilery... check post 26
 

I've desinged and tested my own arty w/ rocket ammo. I used a 12gram co2 cartrage to proppel the round. The catriage usually burns out very shortly after leaving the barrel so theres no danger of it bouncing off of something and flying into somebodys face. It fires from a large 6 foot long pvc pipe and loads in the back then I close the butt cap which has a nail in it which when hit with a hammer punchures the co2 cartrage in the center of its nozzel. well heres the design. i left out allot of small details that make it work correctly but this is the basic design.
Now me and my freind have test fired it many times and the problems with it are: fully puncturing the cartriage, making the hole on a 90 degree angle and making the hole in the dead center. Well I'll exept any feedback with open arms, thanks.

Please spell-check that post? It is painful to read.

So what happens when this round that goes up, has to come down?

What is the round made of?

How is a wooden frame going to protect the use from explosion?

Very creative. The only problem I find is the fine paper fins, as they would bend while going down, causing the rocket to fly in a problematic angle. And the wooden frame catching fire if something drastically weird happens. You could just put a guide for the nail to go in 90 degrees, and make a butt-cap for it(instead of using hammer, just bash it in with a hard steel cylinder that attaches to the back and slides back and forth).

Hard to read when you type with no grammer. I use to / still do some times. So I got the just of what your sayng and have come to this conclusion.

ARE YOU NUTS. the force of that thing coming down and hitting some one on the head dam thats going to hurt. Assuming thats solid materals.

Even if it is made of paper, if one fills it with flour like he suggests it'll still hurt/injure.

If you make at least as much effort to get age-verified, and you bother to use a spell-check software (or a dictionary), we'll gladly offer constructive criticism.

Right now the safety factors around that project are sadly lacking. There is more than one way to get severely injured with it, and not necessarily from the projectile end of it.

Your project is dangerous and is likely to hurt someone, begone.

I have a rule of thumb when desigining/building anything to do with airsoft "unless your willing to take a hit with whatever your building point blank, go back to the drawing board" I won't decry your recent efforts, seeing as others have quite obviously pointed it out already. I am pleased with the fact that your using your mind and talents to simply try ( most never do) but please rember that you have to keep your safety and the safety of others in the fore front of everything you do. When desiging items you must always ask yourself " what would be the absolute worst thing that could happen" and assume the something twice as bad as that is going to happen. I won't lie most times this will lengthen the whole process considerably, however, your finished product will be far better than orginal concept. It will stand the test of time, you will have something to be proud of, something people will use, and most importantly something that can be used but will not seriously hurt anyone. The last one is the most important. Good luck with future projects, IMHO the above design has to go back to the drawing board ASAP, perhaps with this post in mind you will be able to build what you like in a more " user/target" friendly version

Whoa, crazy idea... Just reading the title, rocket propelled...
What if you had a rocket propelled projectile (ala estes) that sent up a quartered cylinder full of BBs/powder... The entire projectile could be parachuted down at a safe velocity (temperature would probably be a bigger issue). The deployment charge could be used to trigger both the release of the BBs as well as the parachute. At altitude, the BBs can probably spread out enough to give a fair 'blast radius' once the BBs reach the ground. To prevent direct hits, the launcher can have a safety gimbal that would prevent firing below 45 degrees or something.
Sort of like airburst artillery...

Crazy, probably stupid and unsafe, but different. Has anyone considered this before?

Could just use a foam end of sort from a craft store... may have to weight it inside to make sure it's even... or it won't go straight.

Also, for the tube of the rocket, could you not just have some sort of cardboard tube filled with foam(etc) that would be able to have the cartrige be pressed in by pure pressure from the blast, making the rocket it more easily reusable? Instead of having to ducktape.

As for the nail... I think a more precise tool could be used, but whatever.
What I would do for that is sand it down, to make sure it is smooth. Just to help it go in easier. As for the end cap, maybe a thicker one, and use a drill, level, and ruler to make sure it goes straight?

The first thing I said to myself when I saw "Rocket Propelled" was "nope too dangerous"

And once again ASC comes down on an Idea like a ton of bricks... what part of "testing stage" was not read? I know the grammar sucks but come on people it's not that hard to get.

Basically we need to get the thing to fire first before we attempt to make it safer. Grave had the Idea of making the Co2 cartridge eject imediatly after leaving the barrel (and burning out so it doesn't fly off on it's own) which would lighten the payload and reduce risk of injury.

Basically this all boils down to the same problem with conventional air cannons that have been considered for use as arty... what kind of round is safe to fire at people? It's the same problem no matter what kind of propellent you use. You can't nail it to the cross soely on the principal it's "rocket-based".

How about some constructive critisim instead of playing "stick the hot brand on the newb"?

To fix the puncturing problem, somehow plug the pipe on the bottom and put a nail in the center. Then it just works like a mortor round. Drop it in, gravity does its thing, the downward force puncturers the CO2, and off it goes. Works pretty much perfect every time, at least with a CO2 alone it does, haven't tried or seen it tried while attachedto something.

Hope this helps.

If you are building an artillery piece, maybe you should build a system that would prevent fire below a certain level, as said by As for the ammunition it self if launched as an inderect fire, you could insert a parachute to slow the fall of it either all the way down or low enough to let it fall freely at a safe speed for its weight. You could also include in the ammunition a system that would make it "detonate" so that it spreads BB all over an area. This last system, combined with a parachute would render the ammo pretty much safe, don't you think?
I know this seems complicated but for safety sake I believe it is doable.

It's definatly an Idea... we'd need to increas the power output of the Co2 Rocket to get it high enough... but we were gonna need to do that anyways. As it is it more resembles a recoiless rifle (keep in mind this is all still in the testing stages.)

I'm trying to think of a way to load multiple Co2 Cartriges into one projectile so that they provide more power. The problem isn't fitting the Cartridges... it's setting all the F**king things off at once!

Here's some constructive critisism

This is the kinetic energy formula

Kinetic Energy (joules)= 0.00004645*m*v²
m = mass in grams
v = velocity fps

My L96 fires a 0.36 bb at 400fps. At point blank range, that's an impact energy of 2.67 J. That would hurt a great deal.

What's the mass and exit velocity of the projectile (and kinetic energy)?
What's the safe shooting distance?

definitly an interesting idea,what is the range?

ok currently it only has an effective range of 20 feet (if you can get it to fire) and right now in its state it could only be used as an anti-armour weapon. I'm attempting to give the round some sort of spin like rifling (but its way to hard carve out rifling inside the tube), so i could use some help on that right now. Once we get the round to move then I'll start working on angle regulators and dessent speed regulators(ie. parachute).

p.s. I'm sorry for my bad grammer in my first post, I just didn't really think about it mattering too much but now I'll do my best to reach your par.




EDIT: And it is far away from completion so I admit it is still quite dangerouse but it shall not be fired at anybody or anywhere near anybody until it is completed and proven safe!! SO PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE A BROKEN RECORD PLAYER AND REPEATING THAT!!

I could definatly see that carving all those "rifiling" races in the tube could be a pain in the butt. How about angling the fins and grooving the projectile to induce the spin similar to those nerf footballs? Just a thought

Instead of useing small Co2 catridges could you incorporate a larger Co2 Cartidge into the frame with a trigger that allows required air out on each pull.

Then you have recycleable Co2 and no worries about co2 catridge hurting anyone.
Cut a nerf football in half attach something like half a 600ml pop bottle attached to that. Then fill with bbs/flour whatever. not sure how you would incorporate parachute in this design though. Sounds crude but might work..

would probably have to put a bit of weight in half of nose of rocket though(nerf)

Maybee use something in that rocket that reacts to being shot so it seperate top and bottom in mid flight. thus deploying parachute attached to each end of rocket(inside)
and pellets.

20 feet!?!?! holy jeepers! Wild man on the loose!

One 12 gram Co2 Cartrige + heavy duty, vertical spin upon leaving the barrel + launch difficulties + straight line firing, not on a upward angle = 20 foot effective range so far. That's pretty good considering everything going against it.

Once we get the round flying straight and true that will help. Add some more Co2 cartriges, and you've got more range and power. Aim it on a 45 degree angle and you have more range... need I go on?

Once again I call attention to the fact these are test firings to see if we can get it to launch at all. Accuracy, range, power and most importantly saftey come later we have to be able to reliably launch the damn thing first.

So it dosen't go very far and dosent sound like it has much impact. I still like the idea.

those "air hogs" toy planes can easily be modified into a rocket, then all you have to do is find a way to explode something on impact. if you can get around to it before me than knock yourself out. when im done my other projects i will be working on that.

the only problems with that is that each shot would be less as powerfull than the last and I don't feel safe having something I made super pressurised with air (may go boom) so this is the safest and easiest way


I'm currently desining a round with a shell that would not require the CO2 cartriages to be flying through the air (so you can all feel safe when you see this at a game)
this is what i got so far...

I belive i have figured out a way to rifle the barrel of my arty (thats right i'm a genius) My father is a tile layer and he has a mashine for mixing the tile glue, which is long and narrow enough for this project. HOOWAH!! this is really lookin like its comin together.

We have officially decided that if and when this piece is finished, it shall be called the "Killo Ma-Wacker".

It occurred to me that that new shell design A) isn't really rocket propelled (because the propellant is in the shell casing) and B) it would probably have recoil, though we don't know how much.

Depending on the amount of recoil, we MAY be able to convert it to fire semi-auto. Keep in mind that is a MAYBE as in we don't know and it only a theory so far. We will see what we can do once we have the first model fully functional.

Geezuz Xrist people!
Just use fucking potato gun and some BBs wrapped in paper as the projectile :D
I can launch a 2" diameter potato about 100 meters at 45 degree angle. At 90 degree angle it goes high enough so i cant see it anymore. Stuff it with a couple handfulls of BBs in a sabbot and there you go. Simple and easy.
Oh, almost forgot, use hair spray for the propelant and BBQ igniter (spark) for the igniter. End can unsweres and recharges with hair spray. Dont try to over think things ;)

Where's the fun in that? ;)

Also, I'm sure your not the only person to think of that, and that the Idea has been dismissed for saftey reasons.

I like the shell idea, but what about the portability? With shells you'll have to lug the spent shells or risk losing them. vs the self propelled round which only has to be found. have you come up with easily replaceable ordinance?

nice work, good base idea. cant wait until the you guys present a final version of it

Well with the shell idea we had the idea of using it as a vehicle mounted weapon (see my Airsoft Tank thread), so it would be easy to keep track of spent shells... we're still thinking of ways to make a disposable "explosive" projectile. One Idea I had for either kind of round is using peanut packaging taped together and some sort of system the would spread it out on impact or in the air above the target... though I have no clue what kind of device I could use to safely detonate it on impact. A solid disposable projectile would be easy to make... just use something like Peanut packaging taped together or some other cheap, soft, and easy to find material with a sabot to launch it out of the barrel.

Another idea is to do something like a cap bomb in a Nerf ball so when it hits it makes that distinctive "Crack" of a cap exploding... that would leave it up to the players to determine weather or not they were "hit" but since we play by the honor rules already that may not be a problem.

In the end though that's the most difficult part: Making safe, disposable simulated explosive rounds. I'm open to more suggestions. Right now we're just figuring out new and interesting ways to send things flying downrange.

There are mines that use floure and varrious other dusts, say you use a foam ball, you could hollow it out with and put in a plastic air sack surrounded by said powder so on impact the air is forced out carrying with it the powder. If I had a scanner I would post a picture of what I mean, but for now you'll have to use your imagination. Basically outer shell covered in small holes as outer layer, middle layer powder, center airsack.

That's not a bad idea... not a bad idea at all. It's simple, cheap, and easy to make. I've suggested using powders like flower before but they keep getting shot down for various reasons... but definatly worth looking into. I'll pass this on to Grave see what he can cook up on the weekend (if anything)

Urgh.... what safety reasons? Use it as a mortar firing a paper/plastic bag of BBs in a sabbot. It hits the trees and explodes in a huge ass shower of BBs. I'd rather be hit by that then a "self propeled" pointy round. And fun? it makes a loud fucking boom :cheers: . Had it echo for at least 3 blocks in the city.

If it were that simple, don't you think somone would have done it by now instead of having a 10 page forum thread about how to make Airsoft Artilery? (http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=12517)

If you haven't realized we got rid of the pointy self proppeled round idea... and the safty reasons talraii was reffering to would be the fact that its a plastic pipe with lots of wood holding it in place... now fire is a bad thing to add into this equation....... :smack:

Make sure the nail you're using isn't too large. If the hole is too large instead of having the CO2 escape forwards, propelling your projectile, the CO2 cartridge might just explode. Just like any other pressurized container (a plane, a scuba tank) a small enough hole won't allow all the gas to escape at once, but if the hole is big enough, then all the gas attemps to escape causing explosive decompression.

In know the CO2 cart you're using isn't exactly huge, but if it were me, I'd hate to have to deal with an exploding piece of metal next to my head...

...I'll keep that in mind..... 8-O

Truely clueless. I was firing those things holding it in my hands, repeatedly. Even had a small "accident" when i thought it would be good idea to charge it with 2 seconds of hair spray, and look through the end cap hole while pressing the trigger. I'll buy a bag of BBs and will experiment with a BB loaded sabbot, probably this friday.
If someone hasnt done it, maybe it was because someone didnt think of it yet?

Alright, it is at this point I'd like to request you keep the thread on topic and clean. I don't think you have the right to call my friend "clueless" for disagreeing with you. Post your idea on the other Airsoft Arty thread. You don't like our idea, post some constructive critism about why you don't think the design will work, or keep quiet. Do NOT post a completly different idea and tear ours down just on the principal that you like yours better. If you like your "potato gun" so much then post it in a new thread and see what kind of reply you get.

Feel free to point out design flaws in our design, but do so constructivly instead of stooping to insults and questioning our inteligence for not wanting to play wth explosive propellant.

Safest rocket I've ever played with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_rocket

Prefab designs are available at many science stores which carry science related toys. Nice thing about them is that they lose most of their weight on the way up as they blast out their reaction ballast (water). No pyro either.

They still present a direct hazard if you shoot them directly towards a target. As an indirect fire projectile they're pretty safe because they're so light once the water is ejected.

From the wiki article:

"As water rockets are capable of breaking bones upon impact, they should never be fired at people or animals."
I know you said indirect fire but you gotta count in accidents

"Water rockets should only be launched in large open areas, away from structures or other people, in order to prevent damage to property and people."
Ours can in theory be used anywhere.

"A typical two-liter soda bottle can generally reach the pressure of 100 PSI safely, but preparations are made for the eventuality that the bottle ruptures."
No thank you, I'd rather not that explode in my face.

"While pressurizing and launching the rocket, bystanders are kept at a safe distance. Typically, mechanisms for releasing the rocket at a distance (with a piece of string, for example) are used. This ensures that if the rocket veers off in an unexpected direction, it is less likely to hit the operator or bystanders."
Again, ours can in theory be used in proximity to people without harm. A 12 gram Co2 cartridge exploding is bad, but it would be contained by the barrel for the most part. A 2 liter water rocket explodes...

On the other hand... that Aerial Photgraphy idea might come in handy as a recon device, especially if you can somehow get a remote feed off the camera. :D

Airsoft mortar, safe version;

PVC tube, about 1 inch diameter and a meter long.
35 mm film container, empty, screwed to the top of a long spring that is just less than 1 inch diameter. (Imagine a piston concept)

Attach other end of spring to bottom cap of PVC tube.

Fill film can with BB.

Use a dowel to compress the canister to the bottom of the mortar tube, and a simple cotter pin to keep it all there.

Pull pin, spring pushes the container of BB up real fast, and stops because all is fixed except the ammo. BBs carry on at low velocity, creating a shower.

No gas, no explosives, no danger, and nothing gets lost except the BBs. Also dirt cheap to make AND re-useable.

No, this is not a new idea. I posted it in the forums before.

your mortar Idea is all fine and dandy, Greylocks, but where's the fun in that? It's essentially a big shot shell. It's more realistic and interesting to have a single shot round that has a "splash damage" effect on impact. Besides, half this project is simply experimenting to see what we can do in direct and indirect fire models. Indirect fire is harder to do, sure, but would lead to some interesting matches if you could have fixed position arty...

Even if we don't get it working as an arty piece it will certainly make a unique big gun, especially with Grave's new shell idea. It might make a good vehicle mounted weapon (again, see my Airsoft Tank thread). If not it certainly could spice things up in a match.

Before you say it: IF we get it to work, and IF it is safe. Can we please get back on topic about how we might be able to do that? I'd appreciate the feedback.

P.S. thanks Grey for the mortar design, I think I'll build one just for kicks... it certainly would make a good close indirect fire support weapon.

You're reading a little too far into the extreme end of water rocketry. Hasn't anyone ever played with the small sub 250mL rockets from hobby stores and science shops?

Launching a 2L rocket into someones ribcage will definitely cause some serious pain. The small 250mL-500mL prefab toy ones are pretty harmless. The greatest danger they present is knocking off someone's goggles with directed fire. On the way down they're pretty light.

If you're worried about the direct fire problem then just give up on the quest for a rocket altogether and go nerf. There is a difficult tradeoff between efficacy and direct hit safety. Other than nerf it's pretty much impossible to shoot a rocket like projectile for a reasonable range and not be a goggle knocker.

Please read the thread... We already went Nerf with Grave's new shell idea.

P.S. he doesn't know how to re-name the thread, could somone help (he's reading over my shoulder and bugging me... please make him stop :rrr: )

lol

I got a couple of rocket cartridges sitting around. The stuff you put under them model rockets and set with an electrical charge..

Man one time I took one of those things appart, and got all the black power into a bowl and lit on fire. It was cool. You might want to attach something like to your rocket for ultimate distance. Im sure u can devise a way of cutting the full pack to about 1/4 or 1/8 the size to give u a long enough burn to get some distance, and not enough of a burn to end up launching it for over a km.

The best is launching them cigar tubes.. When I was younger an older family friend use to launch them all the time. MAn those things were dangerous.

What do you use to fire you GBBs if you have any? :cheers:

I took an open discharge of that "explosive" propellant almost head on (no end cap, full up the chamber, make the spark while looking inside) with no eye or any other protection.
It is not "explosive". Stop being such a safety nazi, or do you play with full paintball masks too with 280fps limis?

Greylocks idea is a GREAT basis for experimenting with. The spring idea is awesome, no heavy propellant canister falling on your head. You could fab up a firing mechanism that would let you fire it with the spring at different tensions. You could also fab up the firing mechanism to be a very close approximation of a real one.
As for the shot shell effect, you could envelope the BB's in some sort of sabot enclosure to have a more direct fire effect. And being spring loaded, you can experiment with this to your heart's content without needing $$$ for CO2 or other propellants.
Go. Have fun. Experiment...

The spring mortar is dirt simple, dirt cheap, and there is NOTHING illegal or unsafe about it since nothing comes out except an arcing cloud of BB.

No gas, no explosives or anything that can explode, no heat, no fire. 100% re-useable.

If you want more power, experiment with better springs, or a longer tube, or a canister that would contain more ammo.

A film can contains about 300 BBs. (My memory fails, but it's at least 150)

ok greylocks nice idea but not very good for range... we want something that will fire at really long ranges

Depends on the spring. You could send these babies in an appropriate package a fair distance. Besides, in airsoft you pretty much need to see your target. I doubt anyone will devise a way of safely delivering a bunch of BB's into the grid square beside you. It's just not possible.

Dammit, why use CO2 capsules when a compressed air or a 20oz tube fed CO2 canister works better.

The following is a very SIMPLE, CHEAP, and EFFECTIVE cannon. You can add a body cover to make it look more realistic and it has an electrical firing system. No battery plugged in = no accidental firing. The cannon has an effective range of 100-200 feet, leaving a large surface area covered in 500-900 peas. Yes peas, they are round and similar to BB's but at 1/30th the cost. The peas can be loaded into premade shells and the air supply can be quickly refilled using a regulated CO2 canister (or an electric tire pump if CO2 is difficult to obtain).

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSCF1138.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSCF1140.jpgThat is right, this offers:
-Preloaded shells (use plastic bag sabbots withing plastic shells to hold bb's in, CHEAP (about $4 a shell))
-150-200 feet range with a 30 feet diameter cover
-Electrical firing system, use your AEG battery to fire, or use a custom built switch
-Cheap to fire, fast to refill if using CO2
-About 30sec delay between shots, faster with training
-Safe to use on people (see video)

Video One: Long shoot, shooting the fellow wearing white shorts standing in field.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...h_longshot.jpg
Video Two: Demonstrating safety, no damage done at 15 feet range.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...hortonshot.jpg


-Daes