Airsoft Limits
 

Hi All,

Not to start a riot, but I was just thinking about airsoft fps/joule limits, and it occured to me that Air Rifles are far more powerful than Airsoft and yet they aren't required to be licensed, or the purchaser either. So, why do we have to stick with the 500 fps/1 joule limit for airsoft guns? (Obviously, I mean other than the fact that people would get seriously hurt) I don't mean play rules, but simply for purchase.

cheers

The legal limit for any firearm to be exempt from registration and legislation is 500 fps (152.4 m/s) AND 5.7 joules of muzzle energy. Anything above both of those limits combined means it requires licensing, registration and may be prohibited (full auto).

The is NO LICENSE REQUIRED TO PURCHASE OR SELL AIRSOFT GUNS!!!!

The velocity and energy limits are set in stone by the Firearms Act.

This, I knew. But I mean that an Air Gun, like those used in small game hunting requires no license, and most fire at around 1000 fps, and the little metal pellets must exert more than 5.7 joules on impact, no?

A 1000fps airgun would require a PAL license, mcguyver already said that. Airsoft and airguns would be in two different categories even though they still fall under the same 500fps rule. Airguns being used for target shooting/light hunting and airsoft being used to shoot other people... so you're wondering why airsoft guns legal limit is the same as an airgun? Well.. think about it. One of them you shoot humans with, the other you don't. If you mean as far as purchasing goes, why would they raise the limit of the fps/joule limit? Have you ever been hit by a 500fps bb?

What would be the point of raising the limit just to buy airsoft guns with more power when you couldn't even use them to play? :smack:

Ummm, no, they don't shoot 1000fps. Not in Canada. Airguns sold in Canada, i.e. Canadian Tire are under 500 fps. Usually 495 or so...

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortmen...=1159816756738
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortmen...=1159816823090
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortmen...=1159816869156

etc. etc. etc.

-Daes

Actually, they do shoot 1000fps. Airguns sold at CTC are required to sell 495fps and below. With a PAL however you can purchase upwards of 1000fps. Canadian Tire is not the only place to buy airguns.

Ummm, yeah, a PAL. You are saying:

But I mean that an Air Gun, like those used in small game hunting requires no license

A PAL is a license...

-Daes

Check who wrote that quote and then get back to me. You're mixing up names here.

Ah, thats where I was misunderstanding. I'd assumed that the CTC guns shot at 1000fps, and was confused because they didn't require a license. Thanks TrueTGN and Daes for the clarification...

Damned Assumptions...

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info_for-r.../airguns_e.asp

Sorry, similar avatars and, no, that 1000fps airgun requires a PAL, his question was that they didn't require a license and, yes, they do require a license. Therefore, anything over that magical 500fps and 5.7 joules requires a PAL.

You are correct, you can purchase airguns that way the hell more powerful than that of CrappyTire, but you require a license. Anyone up for trying to pass a full auto airsoft gun off under your PAL?

-Daes

Actually, what is the clarification of a full auto BB gun under the PAL (500/5.7)? Illegal like all fully automatic guns? One would think?

-Daes

The lawis messed up. One can without a PAL can own a 50 caliber full auto that shoots 495fps but cant own a 550fps .22 bolt action...

Either way, airsoft guns can shoot around 1000fps with .12g or so (calculated it a while ago, so dont quote me on it) and still be non PAL. Going over on a select fire one, and its a prohibited firearm.

Cheers,
Alex

if an air gun fires over 500fps it is considered a firearm... therefore a full auto would be prohibited.
I worked at a gun shop for years, never came across an air rifle that was PAL required that fired semi or full auto. To acheive the high FPS all I ever saw were the "pump"/breach break style, where you pump a rod or barrel assembly

Wrong. You must exceed 5.7J also, and with a 0.20g BB that is equivalent to 785.5 fps.

thank you Gryphon I was wrong, I'm typing at work and didn't proof read before selecting submit (I really try, it drives me nuts to see some of the "english" that is written here).... damn multi tasking

Wrong. You must exceed 5.7J also, and with a 0.20g BB that is equivalent to 785.5 fps.[/QUOTE]

Actually it's OR not AND as per the exception clause:

( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or...

The problem is not just the velocity. Airgun laws are pretty clear as to what you can buy with or without a PAL.

The real problem is that the authorities tend to look at airsoft as Replicas, and that's a whole different set of laws.

Yes, those laws make no sense, BUT they can bite.

Actually it's OR not AND as per the exception clause:

( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or...[/QUOTE]


You're taking that quote out of context, if you included the entire section it's pretty clear that both the FPS and the joule requirements be met before it's classified as a firearm.

Heh, actually fellas (and this is going to throw everyone off) it's neither. It's AND/OR according to the CFC.

The joule limit was introduced in response to ultra-light lead .177 cal pellets that when used in an otherwise normal airgun, suddenly caused it to shoot faster than 500 fps. Here's my non-lawyer interpretation of the and/or modifier. Under normal circumstances using projectiles of "typical" weight (whatever an average .177 cal pellet weighs) or heavier, the OR modifier is used as you do not want someone pushing a heavy bullet past 500 fps or beyond 5.7J if it's heavier than average. For light projectiles such as the ultralight lead pellets (and therefore by logical extension, airsoft guns), the AND modifier is used as you can easily push a lighter projectile beyond 500 fps but not be breaking the joule barrier.

In summary, if they added this joule limit in response to light lead pellets it was done to avoid classifying firearms shooting light projectiles >500 fps as firearms. Airsoft pellets are even lighter still, ergo it should be 500 fps AND 5.7J.

Grain of salt not included.

You're taking that quote out of context, if you included the entire section it's pretty clear that both the FPS and the joule requirements be met before it's classified as a firearm.[/QUOTE]

Actually, according to the Criminal Code of Canada, a firearm need only fire a projectile that can cause serious injury or death. The whole point of the 500 fps / energy requirement does not mean that it is not a firearm. It is actually the opposite. It only exempts the firearm from certain sections of the Criminal Code and Firearms act. But it is still a firearm if it can cause serious bodily harm.

If an airsoft gun shoots a .2g bb at 450 fps, and hypothetically thought can cause serious injury, it is considered to be a firearm. Because it fires less than 500 fps though, it is exempt from several sections of the Criminal Code, and much of the Firearms Act.

Maybe I'm not understanding your train of thought on this, and where you are going with it, but the original post was basically wanting faster shooting guns. Bottom line, it doesn't matter what weight you are shooting, or what speed it is flying at... If it can cause serious bodily harm or death, it's a firearm. 1000 fps is just plain silly. And regardless of bb weight, 1000 fps would not exempt a .05g bb from the "Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms" section.

this is exactly what the website daes posted says, reading this with basic understanding of law states that ll airsoft guns are illegal.