Realistic replica guns readily available
 

got this from CGN.

Now, which website has in the picture/link? 3 guesses.

ASCA.... do I win the prize.... ah hell this ain't no good

Well that link will be down inside of two weeks anyway, but it's always nice to see how we're portrayed in the media. Maybe they should try and buy a gun off ASCA and see how tough we make it on them. Idiots.

Thanks for the heads up though...

lol, she's obviously done her research.

as for weapons on streets... issue many strict warnings to the public that if one is on the streets and seen as threat to law enforcement that they will react.

go ahead shoot the dumbasses who carry replicas onto the streets, they're the ones giving us a bad name and fueling childish observations such as this.

Clean the gallery of people pointing guns at the camera. And people with the avatars like that, do the same. If anyone actually cares and pokes their nose around online, it would be good to see the "Gamer" and not the "Angry Chairsofter"

Just a thought.

That's right Chief, ban the replicas because we all know they're the ones causing all the trouble. Idiots. It's the actions of the person using the replica that should be punished, not the destruction of a finely molded piece of plastic that is harmless anywhere but in a man's hands.

We should conduct a video test where someone gets shot by an airsoft gun a few times then get repeatedly beaten over the head with a baseball bat, maybe they'll ban American's favorite past time while they're at it.

Bakas, all of them.

I also decided to add what i said in a conversation with contribution from BBS:

"we might as well ban cars while we're at it and force everyone to ride bicycles. then again, i'm pretty sure you can beat people with a bike, so everyone will have to walk. then again, you can kick someone severely, so off go our legs. you know what, let's just commit mass genocide so we don't have to worry about moronic humans"

Now this is nothing person, I don't want to insult you - but did you read the article, or think before posting? The 'standard' 'flog the commoners' routine won't cut it. The article has nothing to do with people posing with their toys and taking pictures. You're actually going to have to think about the situation, and think about solutions, with your own brain.

Problems :
#1 criminals using replica guns
#2 idiots being careless with replica guns

Now the thing is for you to propose a solution that doesn't harm you, and other innocent people, but does affect the problem groups.

Otherwise the standard gov't solution will come down: Ban everything and start throwing people in jails. This solution is not good, because you see it does not reduce idiots, and it does not reduce criminals. The standard gov't solutions are collective punishment, where you and I become criminals for owning airsoft, and that is all. Criminals robbing a store don't care if airsoft is illegal, idiots are still idiots, but you and I suffer.

Also keep in mind that if you try to appease anyone they view that as an admission of both guilt and weakness, and will only push harder against you. If you give an inch, they will take a mile.

Good luck!

This just looks like a follow up on that story on A Chanel the other night. To be quite honest it has been a very slow news week in Victoria over the past couple of weeks. This just goes to show how slow it apparently is.

Well.. atleast they're not talking about the whole gay marriage thing anymore... that was annoying.

It did have a better entertainment value though.

Lucky your very right. A solution that can help the Airsoft reputation to be showed as a past-time that people with MATURITY play.

The people on the streets with their guns aren't considered to be playing Airsoft, because they are in a designated field. There just acting like idiots to think that someone who sees them in camo and look-a-like guns wouldn't call the cops on them.

A program or something should be put in place through all the retailers, that when they maybe sell the guns either in person or through mail, that they could maybe send a pamphlet or give them one defining the rules of Airsoft and the laws surrounding it.

Many times people don't do their research, they don't come on this website, and go ahead and buy the guns. Thats why people are running around. They just simply aren't INFORMED. Thats the root problem, if they knew they could be charged, if they knew their $500 guns would be taken and destroyed, only the idiots who are criminals would use it for a crime.

Uninformed people, thats the problem.

Snake, please see Age Verification FAQ & Regional Age Verification FAQ

Huh!?/WTF!?

Snake, to whom is that accusitory finger of yours pointed, in this instance?

Snake, see the following, in sequence -

Glass houses, Snake, glass houses. (Look it up.)

SnakeDoctor, is there any reason why you are not following the rules you are promoting?

Or is your own MATURITY not high enough yet to understand and follow them?

The laws have nothing to do with maturity, but with legal responsibility. Inform yourself on that too, you need it.

You think that was my whole solution to the problem??? Droc posted up last year when the school shootings took place in Montreal, a picture of the shooter and a airsofter both pointing guns at the camera. Very little difference except one guy was a phycopath and the other was one of us. We should try to at least avoid a out lash from busy bodies that could use our wanna be poses against us. That is just a small issue we could clean up. If we are so responsible and respectable...And some are, then maybe getting rid of the "threatening looks" would be an easy fix from our side. The rest of the political solutions regarding laws and airsoft I haven't even touched on. But the fact that the writer is using quotes from ASC armoury just means they can find more on airsoft that can be taken out of context!

Now think before you post.

No. You guys are just to aragant to see it. So you can sit here and pout all you want day after day after day about how 'idiots' cause these problems. But when you aren't willing to see the issue, than the only idiot here is you.

So pout all you want, but the problem won't go away until someone realizes what has to be done to change the problem.

If the issue keeps existing, than the solution that was put into effect, simply isn't working. Which means a new solution has to be made.

My age has nothing to do with realizing the problem. You just seem to use it as an excuse to make it look like I don't know anything.

Where do you draw the line of what is threatening? Is my avatar threatening? I'm pointing a gun, just not directly at that camera. Some people find the mere photo of a gun threatening. We're going to end up deleting most photos from this site if he try not to scare soccer moms.

your age has a lot to do with the problem and so does everyone else that is a child (you are a child)but feels they are responsible or mature enough, every time a child circumvents the processes we have in place now to aquire an airsoft weapon they weaken our stand against soccer moms.

I am all for "something" to happen proactively with us a community, but you shouldn't really be adding anything to the conversation if you are under age.
we don't ask 14 year olds for driving instructions

how about you hold your comments on activism within airsoft until you can legally own airsoft

Now have your fit, if you were mature enough you would understand that this is a sport for adults and you can wait, but you won't

One of the issues is
 

that the majority of the community uses the same term for the activities performed with the weapon simulators and weapon simulators themselves.

one of the first things we need to do is separate the activity from the simulators.

It gets very confusing to use the same word as both a verb and a noun in the same sentence.

People calling themselves "airsofters" ... or playing "airsoft" sounds childish and is hangover from their days as "paintballers"

What we really do is " modern combat re-creation" using mostly harmless simulated weapons.

The Brits got their exclusion from prohibition to posses and trade in realistic imitation firearms under a "historical Re-enactment" waiver in the law.
because they were able to illustrate a viable case for the need to have access to realistic imitation firearms, as well as other weapons such as swords, spears, ect,
They separated the issue from the object.. and were successful in distancing themelves from the illicit users of the same objects.

There is a community here, that also enjoys the activity of "Modern Combat Re-creation" ... it just so happens that our prefered choice for weapon simulators are a class of imitation firearms commonly known as "airsoft guns"

In legal circles little things such as semantics can have a large effect.

I for one never mention "airsoft" anymore I call them "training simulators" or Simulated Weapons

I think one of the first steps in preserving this activity is making a clear separation between what we do and what we use.

True, its my perception, and maybe others too. I'm not threatend by a avatar because I understand it. But the guns alone appear threatening to some. Having them pointed at the camera is a pointing at the person veiwing.
No I don't want to please soccer moms, but I do understand "anti gun" types way of thinking, and I'm sure most other do to. At the moment things are hot. Any good lawyer will tell you before a court case is don't say or do anything incriminating. Weather we see it that way or not, some will and do. I've had plenty of my wifes friends completely frown on the fact that I play this."Why would you play a game that simulates war and violence?" This is what I've heard in so many words twice. While the mainstream is paying attention maybe things that they wouldn't understand and never will could be avoided.

Disagree as you will, but the fact is the article touches on quotes made by a respectable retailer, and bent to come out negative.

If I had a solution to this problem we keep running into every 3 or 4 months, my thinking would be to have airsoft fall into having to have a PAL. If you screw up you could be charged criminally, and lose any ability to ever own another gun of any sort.

As far as "getting rid of stupid people, or irresponsilbe behavior with airsoft guns" Good luck!

I'm done here.

That's the government's job to inform people about the law. It's not our job to advertise on national tv to educate these retards.

Not knowing the law doesn't make you innocent.

In this case, it's common sense, you carry a gun around town, or you play cop and robber in your front yard, what can you really expect out of it?

You're completely out in left feild. The big problem isnt people playing airsoft in the streets, that rarely happens here. The big problem is the use of airsoft in crimes and airsoft being carried by criminals and "gangster" wannabes. That is what's sparked the comments from Victoria Police, and led to this article.

How the hell are we "too arrogant to see it" ? We see the problem, but there's nothing we can do about it. If someone is inclined to rob a bank with a replica, he is going to do so; If someone is stupid and wants to play on the street, he/she is going to do so. Proper gun education (safe handling,storage, etc...) is out of the question...

I suppose you know exactly what needs to be done? Yeah, ofcourse you do.. cause-what? You've been on the forums, and in the loop for 2 months (maybe less) now?

WTF are you even talking about? The solution is to ban crappy-tire-crap-soft, or atleast make it harder to get. But do you honestly think they're going to ban something that makes as much money as that? NO.

You DON'T know anything. If you knew anything , you'd know that there has already been action taken to prevent the ban...and I assure you, it wasn't run by some snotty little shat like yourself.

so can you shut the hell up already? Have you even held an airsoft gun before? Why are you wasting your time crying about it.. Go get into some pre-pubescent emo bitch's pants.

Agreed ... this is the issue... but also at issue is the police reluctance to charge people with offenses when the replicas are abused.

then the existing laws loose their bite.. and people start looking for other solutions , like outright bans.

Often the problem is that the police don't know the law.. and think that because it is not a "real gun" they can't do anything.

in the media piece quoted.. the police state that "it is not illegal to carry around a replica"

Which could not be farther from the truth.. Carrying a replica .. say in your waistband under your shirt. breaks 3 distinct sections of the Criminal code.

Concealed weapon, Improper transport, and weapons dangerous...
all of these offenses carry the potential for jail time. yet the police don't charge.. Why?

Is it because the judiciary won't convict? .. is it because the charges are easily defended? ... Is it actualy because the police don't know the law?

OH SNAP

Yeah. Definately because the police don't know the law...

Oh I see. Well than your right, nothing much you can do than. But how can you know nothing will work when you havnt tried? Or you have but gave up?

I haven't tried anything because I see no threat right now. You're new, you take these incidents, and view them as the apocalypse. This is the 15th(?) scare I've seen on these boards... Nothing has really happend, so I doubt anything will happen in a few months/weeks/days/whatever. Just relax, and try not to bother with things you can't handle.

Legal actions are best taken by someone more experienced, and over 18.

Ok so since there really is no problem like you say, than why are people complaining?

Thats what I dont get. But w/e, Im done with all this whining and b/s.

Guys, stop fighting like a bunch of whiny bitches and talk about this intelligently. Brian has brought up some very good points. Ignore asshat posts and get to the meat of the issue and offer some solutions, identify other problems, but stop slinging shit like a bunch of chimps, its getting tiring to read.

Two reasons:

1. Its possible the cop simply does not know. Possible but doubtful.
2. They have enough court time on their hands and they have to choose between spending it on real crime or spending it on prosecuting someone with a kids toy. Hmmmm go to court to help convict a rapist or go to court to put some idiot in jail for being... an idiot.

Bottom line is when they finally investigate it fully, most of these people are just playing with toy guns and aren't using them in the commission of a crime and are just showing bad judgement in an isolated instance. But that doesn't sell newspapers, so, you have to blow it up into some kind of issue and make headlines like those ones. I think this is yet another example of lieberal media anti-gun bullshit just working towards keeping anti-gun culture alive and well in Canada.

The real solution? Change the heads of the 4 largest media groups, let them purge their editorial staff of pinko-lieberal anti-gun nuts with conservatives and half of this goes away over night and you probably will improve the quality of the reporting immensely.

As for the CBC? Fold the damn thing and tear down the building and build a children's park in its place. I have no use for that organization and I resent my tax dollars funding it. (Yes, I know it isn't a CBC article, I am just saying...)

Airsoft gun law
 

This might sound like a off the edge idea, but why not create and Airsoft gun law inside the comunity. If you are not a member of an airsoft team, you canot buy a gun. Theire is only what 2 or 3 retailers at the most in Canada, why not supply them with a list of teams ( Organised teams ) not just your 3 or 4 guys that give themself a name and go shoot eatch other in the backyard. That way the retailer would know that you are of age and have been verified and that you will be playing in a controled environment....

My 50 cents worth.....

I think Brian nailed it on the head like I just did a few minutes ago in another thread.

If we all assembled under the banner of being re-enactors, changing some of our wording, and even using a bit of political correctness language, we COULD start something.

But pushing the government has done nothing and is not going to help.

If Replicas can be better defined by their being needed for reenactments, then it may solve all our problems.

For the rest, we already started here with the 18+ requirements.

To all of you who are new at this game, dont come and say nothing is done. If you do, you really dont know shit.
When all the 'vets' tell you pretty much the same thing, grab a clue.

Agreed (w/ Grey and Brian). This would legitimize the sport for us. Airsoft, the term, is now forbidden.

Airsofting = Military Re-Enacting or MRE
AEG = Military Re-Enacting Devices or MREDs

Although this sounds sarcastic, we should attempt to use the Military Re-enacting terminology as often as possible. I know MRE has other uses, but who cares.

What he said...

Everyone loves dishing out a good MRED'ding.

BBs = Military Re-Enacting Device Non Pyrotechnic Simulated Amunition? MREDNPSA?

Seriously though, it would appear that the re-enactment route is the way to go, perhaps we shoul really get going with the CAA (Canadian Airsoft Alliance), and try to get a speaking body for the various clubs,teams and regions to represent the players while negotiating with the government? It's an idea I've suggested we ressurect before, but I think it has a better chance now.

That is exactly how to play the government's game. We do exactly what we've done, but we open up a bit with a totally different wording. It may mean we have to be politically correct ourselves, but there are ways to play that game too.
Consider it a game of psychological warfare.

I think there have been some good points put forward here that have a good chance of benefiting the community. Although i will say this, since 2003 there have been so many scares like this that it starts to get annoying...so for all of you who have only been here a short while, calm down. The article is a bitch, but meh, thats life...just part of living in Canada, thats what we get for being "nice".

re-enactors is a lot better than over-reactors!

Goldman, I would suggest we start here, right here, with the accord of the Admins.

We we get all our shit sorted out, then we can take the steps to be visible.

That means nasty decisions; 18+ becomes a final thing. Be 100% legal. Organize a few public games later. And so on.

The bigger teams can help faster, because you guys have a base to start from. Same for Brian; he has a base to work from. Let's see if this flies?

INDIVIDUALLY: We can all stop trying to break the laws, we can all revise what we say, and we can all present airsoft as being a military reenactment group. It's what we really do anyway, but that is far more acceptable to soccer moms.

I support this 100%, its a definate start.

The Manitoba Airsoft Association is already ahead of you guys. We're now a federally registered non-profit sporting organization and have been DOING these exact things.

:D if we are going this route maybe a good start would be to revamp the name and look&feel of this Forum site?

Exactly why I suggest keeping our scary faces:rolleyes: pointing guns at the camera, off the boards. Its smart to play politically correct, because its the politically correct that are on this issue, and not just the police.

And I agree with where you guys are going on this. A little out of the box but you have a point.

It would mean some big changes, but i think if we were to set out in writing what we (as a commnuity) and the admin/mods of this board propose to do then it would set us a step in the right direction.

ASC = MReOC or MROC!!! (Military Re-enactors Of Canada)

Miles?

This is good... but we need to get the "airsoft" out... it is too much of a lighting rod.

can you send me a copy of your charter?

Would like a copy too! PM me to discuss as their are folks looking to do the same and if we all coordinate and tell the authorities the same story across the board it is all good when the guy or gal from the Office of Sport Abolishment say I heard that line from Atlantic Canada to Vancouver Island.

Consistant application of rules and regulations right across the board, a minimum set of guidelines that must be met. Doesn't meana local club or province cannot go above and beyong but it must adhere to a federally and nationally approved program.

So now may be a very good time to share what you did with everyone, in a separate thread, in detail.
It worked for you, it can work again.

Being politically correct and a reenactor has allowed me to wind up in extremely interesting places. Even right in front of the Prime Minister, with a fully operational rifle....

Consider it a game guys, a very difficult game, but a game anyway.

How about Military Simulations Association of Canada or Milsim Canada? Re-enacting they may have us dressing up in old uniform right down to period specific unit flashes and badges...just a though to achieve the same but remain distinct from that group of folks.

LOL TRUTH!

Anyway, take the focus away from the tools used to play and focus on the gameplay and historical significance by hosting factual reenactments, or a close as we can get to them.

...lol.

Through our bitter arguements we managed to pull it together.

I may not be as valuable from a legal stand, but Im just askin for a chance. I may not have said the smartest things, but Im just lookin for some acceptance.

My posts from now on will be relevant and something not so high over my head.

I understand you guys dont want me in the sport cause of my age (15), but Im sure if given a chance, I can show how cooperative and mature I am.

I wanna be a Times Colonist to... or maybe i'll start my own colony hmmm....:)

If you were mature, you'd shut up, save up, and come back when you turn 16, dont forget to bring your parent though.
This is not an elitist boys club rules. It is a liability issue. Right now you are a liability.

At this age your money is better spend getting into panties, you're young, go experiment, lol.

I would think that we would want to keep the Re-Enacting part. Just because everybody thinks of the civil war re-enactment, doesn't mean that modern re-enactment doesn't apply. I don't care if people think we're re-enacting with muskets. People would find that less threatening anyway. We should just leave it as vague as possible.

Hi guys, I'll see what I can do about sharing our accomplishments and such, just need to gather together specifics and whatnot. We've always been something of a closed up community here but we've finally gone ahead and taken steps to legitimize ourselves as an actual sport. One of our council members' father is an attorney who assisted us in the federal registration (apparently a complicated and expensive process). In fact I believe morsredigo is on ASC here, I should direct him to this thread.

With your federal incorporation ... your organization could be leveraged into a national association.

Much of the work has already been done.

If aas had the money i would like to look into this myself also. really interested int he details gryphon

Bingo. If every province had an "Office", we would definatly be legit, in the eyes of some.

I would like to explore this farther, very interesting.

With a federal incorporation provincial chapters can tuck under the federal umbrella.

We would not have to incorporate provincially.... I don't think... All the incorporations I have done have been NPO provincial...

Sounds like a very good start, and sounds like it's going to take some money to get the ball rolling.

I won't mind making some donations to help our military re-enactment revolution if someone can setup an account of some sort. (Probably better off staying away from paypal since multiple transaction over time means frozen account)

We can start this in a far simpler way;

We are now Re-enactors. All of us. We re-enact modern military battles and tactics using appropriate replica equipment that is designed to be harmless.

We follow all the rules established currently by the Federal Government. We are all over 18. We all do these events in authorized areas. We educate the public (even someone just walking off the street) and the police forces about what we do in a sane and considerate manner.

We also from now on watch exactly what we do or say in public.

All of the above we can do right now, immediately, at no cost.

Then when the structure of the group is established on paper, we can be fully ready to step in.

Let's start small, because that works well. Let's start HERE, because it's already setup.

I've never characterized myself as anything but a re-enactor. You guys are talking like you've found the holy grail. I'm glad your looking at it this way, this is the healthiest way to present it. Whenever I've opened a new field, I've spoken to the local OPP and thats exactly how I characterize it -reenacting and gaming combined.

It's not new for me either, the new bit is to make it happen across the board. And if that works, it's the best first step done by the community in a long time.

It solves so many problems it's scary.

But how do you change the title of the gun on the box? Buying a airsoft gun still wouldn't ease up the boarder. If the airsoft companies could make a few changes to their title, then maybe it could be another loop hole. But I am honestly scepticle though, the guns are what they are. I would back this anyway, what can it hurt?

Edit:One small tidbit here. In Calgary, the owner of the indoor found a grey area himself so we can play at a lazer trek facility.
He classified airsoft as "paintless ball" and got a license. Its illegal to discharge a airrifle in the city limits, except for inclosed paintball arenas. It worked for him.

Sorry I meant to post this on the Re-enactor thread:/

Let me just say before I get flamed, that I don't know Snake Doctor personaly, nor do I know his maturity level, but the same can be said for all you "age verified" members.

There are over 7500 minors licsensed to posess non-restrictred firearms (Yes, "Real Steel" as you call them), but when was the last time you heard about a 15 year old taking his 12guage and shooting cars for fun? Yet, as you on ASC claim, these minors are not mature enough to handle a (comparatively) toy gun.

(Greylocks said this)
This is false. Being in posession of a firearm has nothing to do with age, but rather licsenseing. That means, you can't lend your .50 BMG to your 40 year old friend (who is a policeman and an ex- US Navy Seal and "Special Ops Ranger") who doesn't have a licsense, but you could lend your .50 BMG to me, a little "immature" minor as you at ASC would say.

Looking at some of those gallery pics, I don't think some of you guys should own airsoft guns (pointing guns at unmasked people's faces at point blank with finger on the trigger). But then again, thats for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to decide, not for any ordinary Canadian citizens to decide. So I'm not going to try to say that you have to be "Maturity varified" or "Reta*d proffed" just because I have a grudge against you. Its the federal gov'ts job to make the laws, not ordinary Canadians.

As you have said, airsoft is a grey area. You (at 40 some odd)can not purchase a replica device. If your airsoft gun shoots 407fps +, the RCMP says it is an airgun.
x 2

Minors telling us how to run things. What could possibly go wrong?

Thread trash in 3...2...1...

Whew.... not going there... you need to read the laws a bit more...
And not apply what you think you know to this issue

Please mtallman, we are generating ideas to move forward the sport, not to debate what age you can play at.

If you search around, you should know why these rules are established. You need to be 16 with parental consent to play at paintball/MRE field due to insurance reasons and 18+ to buy a Military Re-Enacting Device formerly known as airsoft due to legal issue.

As said many times before, we don't make the laws, we MRE-ers simply try to enforce and obey them.

You obey them not enforce them. I don't see you with a badge now do I

See? Snarky little nitpicking posts like these? Those are what get you in trouble.

Don't take it the wrong way, but you really need to learn to shut up.

Well, its true. You don't see me in 7-11 all day scrutinizing everyone's every move, and making sure no one is stealing... even if that means not letting them enter the store in the first place.