ASCA - Sale of final AEG stock
 

ASCA is selling off the last few AEG's and GBB's in our inventory. We will not be importing any more for the foreseeable future. More news on that later, but for now we've only got about 10 items left (sigh), enjoy 15% off our regular retail prices.

AEG's
http://www.ascarmoury.com/index.php?cPath=2_102

GBB's
http://www.ascarmoury.com/index.php?cPath=1_101

And no, it's not related to the post in General right now, but I can say that that is part of a larger discussion that needs to start soon in the airsoft community here.

is there still tax on these, or?

Well, this can't be good.

Is the axe set to come down?

Sorry to hear about the bad news (?)... Congrats to those with their purchase.

Cheers,
KaOz.

PMed

Yes, we declare all our taxes fully to the government. I knocked 15% off, so you could consider it tax free if you like.

The government may give us a hard time in this business, but we do our best to play by all the rules.

Roge-O

Well, it's hard to say for sure, but it seems likely. The axe is being sharpened every day. When I find some free time I will give my input on the subject in more detail. Like I said, there's a discussion that needs to start in Canada, in our community, and with the government.

Hey HonestJohn,

Sorry to hear about the news... hope things get resolved peacefully and well, that needed discussion comes to the table sooner than later.

Cheers,
KaOz.

will regis and others still be doing orders, enabling us to get restricted items?
(should prolly ask them myself)

Would this be provincial government or federal? I caught wind of something yesterday when out for lunch with Bloodsport, Apoc, and Crab, Kip said something about new laws coming down in Ontario (or was it with federal customs?) and making it more difficult for importers to import airsoft guns. At least there's a high chance we'll change our provinical government in November, but federally the Conservatives would be the most likely to listen to us at least.

Please do Miles, your perspective on this from the retailer insider point of view is very important to all of us.

Similiarly if anyone has anything that is solid on this, ie: are we facing a crackdown or is this an isolated case, please chime in, but keep the 'sky is falling' posts to a minimum... facts only at this point is what people need.

There have been rumblings about this in our local forums as well. Its been suggested that we need a strong unified canada wide movement if anything is going to get done. We need EVERYBODYS support and do this correctly through the proper legal channels.

Miles, i'm anxious to hear what your take on this is and what needs to be done.

I realise ofcourse as has been pointed out numerous times that all of this has been tried before, but if we dont try again the axe is just going to come down anyway.

Well, like I said, I unfortunately don't have time to get into it right now.

The most important point for everyone on this site to bear in mind is that possession of replicas is not illegal - it is explicitly defined in our Criminal Code. Owners have nothing to worry about. There has been no change in that law, and none on the horizon.

I'm sorry to hear about the luck Hojo.

WTF OVER! Can someone please outline what exactly is going on? If there is a confrontation with the forces that be, lets start acting sooner rather than later...

HoJo, when you have the time, it would be highly appreciated if you could put all of us into the loop.

Real information, even if it's bad news, is far better than rumours. Being in the dark is not good when it comes to these laws.

Agreed. No information breeds misinformation.

I just want one of those "Voices of reason" that seem to always weigh in on these matters to explain to me how the fact that Airsoft now has essentially one outlet left in the entire country for AEGs, with additional legislation in the works to put a virtual hemostat on any arteries left for people to get gear doesn’t pretty much mean the throttle is stuck and the tracks are ripped out up ahead a few miles? I mean it's awesome to look like the calm and collected professional, by putting to rest all the little peoples fears as well as placing the big Kibosh on all those pesky "Airsoft is screwed" rumors, but did any one ever think maybe instead of dismissing the concerns, some type of action may have been warranted besides the usual talking heads regurgitating the legalese BS over and over again until people just stop giving a shit? For example maybe treating the issues raised in this thread http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=32186 with a little more seriousness instead of sticking the entire thing in the trash?

Absolutely Lance. I couldn't agree with you more.

ASCA decided that in light of recent events (well a few months ago, and if you're in Toronto, yesterday), enforcement of the laws that concern the sale of replicas is increasing. There is no clean-cut way to sell airsoft in Canada with the laws written the way they are, and I agree - without retail outlets of any kind airsoft will wither away (or grow absurdly slowly, at best) in this country.

It's time that sale and/or ownership is legislated in such a way as to allow players to continue enjoying the sport, but that also satisfies the requirements of the government, and the peace of mind of law enforcement.

I'd like to start this discussion elsewhere than this thread, but my opinion is that there is no other reasonable alternative than to have airsoft classified under the PAL as a non-registered, non-restricted entity, which would control sale and ownership exclusively to and from licensed individuals and businesses.

It may seem like a pain in the ass, but the likelihood is that airsoft is going to get buried under blanket anti-replica legislation sometime in the next 5 years. But even before then, retailers are at risk, and even if it isn't outright banned, lack of supply will just kill this sport here.

No one who is reasonably inteligent can argue against any of those controls, as far as I'm concerned %100 accountability should and MUST be expected from any one who owns or uses any thing like a Airsoft gun, but thats the problem aint it? Thats the opinion of one guy in Sask, talking like that on a D-board that is funded by volume selling isn't exactly popular.

Damn, I was going in Saturday or Sunday to get the fa-mas too :(

I agree. Airsoft is a vice, but I'd like myself and those of us who are responsible enough to use it properly to still have that chance. If that means we have to jump through some hoops, I'd be more than happy to - in fact, I'd RATHER if I knew it would protect my hobby.

I don't know why you'd bring up the source of funding of this site. If ASC only existed because of "volume selling" then ASCA wouldn't bother with age verification and I wouldn't have paid for ASC out of my own pocket for a year (all back thanks to donations ultimately - thank you, world) while it transitioned to a bigger and bigger server. I think you're thinking of another airsoft business on the west coast.

shitty. but now is a good time to take a look around and see what remaining underground has brought.... our representitives have been the minors that are not allowed to play, buying soft air, and shooting eachother in front of 7-11. thats the publics preception of the game. time to pull the heads from the asses folks.

I think what he's saying is that action taken by members or administrators of a forum linked directly to a retailer is not the best locale to initiate efforts to affect legal change.

Perhaps it should come from an organization of players directly, rather than from a forum linked directly to ASCA.

bbs, gas and parts are still going to be ok to sell, no?

can you still get metal bodies? What about mechboxes? That's all I need to ask.

Well the reality is no action will ever come directly from this site anyway - anything that happens is going to come from individual actions, rather than a collection of posts on a forum that means nothing. Forums are kids play, it takes real backing to open a dialogue with the government.

I disagree about a commercial enterprise being involved. It might seem like that
is morally incompatible, but legislative changes have to involve the commercial side of it (you don't think Crossman will fight tooth and nail not to have replicas defined as requiring a PAL?). Decisions like these are judged on merit, and the viability of implementation (usually more the latter than former). Not the business card of the person that is working on dialogue.

Baby Jesus is crying in heaven!

Yes and yes - we will still be selling everything but guns.

I wanna cry.........

Meh, I have enough guns for my playing, and redundancy among them as well (like, almost duals of everything).

Me, I'm just sitting back, going by what Miles says (I trust him) and am not crying or getting freaked out. Guess that skill comes with age.

Just pulled the trigger on a M16A2

I think the vast majority of us already have guns for playing, my sadness is because this going to make it much harder to get new players into the sport if we lose yet another line of access to guns.

True, am aware of that, am concerned if this entire thing is real, or just isolated (chances of that are high) but as far as I'm concerned (based upon my own experience having never bought a gun from a retailer) for at least a few years there will be people entering the sport and other leaving the sport and selling off their kit. So for a while new players might have to resort to either waiting to get into the game with gear, or pick something they don't really want in order to play and wait for something they really want to be sold. Lack of retailers in the country actually selling new imported guns won't kill us for a few years, but a crack down on parts and such happens (as well as guns and ammo), that WILL eventually stop us ALL from playing.

Yea, I got my first gun from ASCA a week ago yesterday. I was trying to get some more buddies into it, but alas, supplies are drying up :(

I think at somepoint someone or a few people, with experience in these matters, have to step upto the plate and see what can or cannot be done to help this currently dwindling sport if we don't want it to dry out in the next couple of years.

Hey Grey, I wonder if with that license would we be able to get a better channel for imports? Perhaps a class for a retailer perhaps that has to follow certian channels that any real steel fire-arms merchant has too?


I never looked into importing guns from outside the country. I know you need to purchase a permit to bring your fire-arms across the border. Did a few huntin' trips down to the States. Came up with just waiting till I get there and borrow a light rifle off a family member down there... SO much easier. But what about importing on your own?

Count me in on this option, I like it. That way if they mess up it affects their PAL and future possibility of ever owning a real gun.

I like the idea of a PAL aswell. IMO everybody using anything similar to a firearm should get the course anyway.

+1

Now with a PAL option avaliable....would that enable international orders....or do they not have anything in common?

I'll read more....

Now is this the time we as a community discuss getting together to find a solution. Those of you in the east seem to have more information, who and how do we decide to let speak for us. I don't think it will help to have dozens of people running around with half information talking to representatives. I personally don't know the laws, so I will have to trust those how do. But who are the proper people who do know?

+1 for pal.

+1 for PAL also. Especially if it means overseas access for metal bodies, documentation pending....

-Daes

I would imagine importing would still be out of the question, but then again I don't know too much about it.

I think these are 2 complete different articles we are tackling here.

1. Legality of importing (airsoft and restricted items)
2. Legality of owning airsoft (and obvious to use in designated area)

The more important of the two we perceive today is obviously #2 to preserve our game. The importing issue can be dealt with later.

As long as I can still own my airsoft and use them at games, I'll be happy. And as long as the restricted number of dealer can still import, I'm cool with that. If we can successfully lobby airsoft with PAL, then I'm all for it.

Yup, I'm all for it with a PAL too. Unfourtunately I don't have one yet and no experience with real firearms or the laws surrounding them. Therefore I can't do anything about. But anyone who goes to bat on this has my support, as well as most everyone else's here it looks like.

The course for a PAL involves pretty much all the common sense things we try to teach people when they first get into airsoft. I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't be a good idea.

+1 for PAL

-40 for orange tips.

Unfortunately, nothing will be *officially* done on this matter before federal elections (from our side anyways)... All I can say is that there is quite a number of mp's that are aware of airsoft and positive about it if correctly controlled.

As surprising as this may sound, the ones i'm thinking about right now are Bloc's mp's, because someone in airsoft close to the Bloc did some PR last summer/fall and invited some mp's to see and touch airsoft.

As I said, most of them were positive about it and I ''think'' the guy also talked about it to M. Duceppe. This means that even within the opposition, ppl are friendly to our cause. The biggest changes will be made via PR with mp's and by official letters and such.

For those interested, Tim Wyborn sent me most of the documentation he and the ABA used to save airsoft in England. (Situation is not the same over here, but it could get very similar in the future, so...)

do you realize its the best time to ask something to the govt. ? election time is the politician christmas time. they give almost without checking(not saying that they whould not do) just to get more vote.. or i am currently stuopid enough and its prov. election.... anyway im just pointing out that election time are always a good moment to request something from the actual govt.

Actually... No. Not when the issue is negative to the public's eye. Opposition groups will use that to show how ''evil'' the actual governement is, and get some more votes from soccer moms. The best time to bring this issue at an official level will be after the election of a majoritary (sp?) conservative governement. Even if it's minoritary (sp?), it would be a better time than pre-election time, because opppostion won't have much to gain from being against our hobby/sport.

i'm totally fine with a PAL purchasing system. it regulates the sale of airsoft guns to the point where

A: only people 18+ can buy airsoft and if not,
B: i highly doubt some kid's parent with a PAL will buy them one because i'm hoping that if the parents think it's controlled under a PAL, then it must be some pretty serious stuff
C: most airsoft players already have PALs (or at least I'm hoping) so it's only a minor inconvenience to the others who don't have one to get it.

ive never herd of PAL but im all for it!! i may get flamed but i dont care i just want to play and buy airsoft!

I could be wrong but... Isn't there a huge process to the PAL system? Like isn't there something in it that involves some one going through some kind of pshyc analisis through the answers to the questions?

My point is Pall ain't gonna make it easier. Anyhow lets wait to see what Hojo has to say. I don't think this was the thread for all of this talk.

correct me if i'm wrong but you have to go through stages, tests, courses, long time/wait to obtain a PAL... but of course thats for owning a real firearm.

lets hope theres a "PAL airsoft version" so the process of obtaining it would be different (safety course, tests, etc) than that of a PAL for firearms. i hope we can order airsoft guns from overseas after getting an "airsoft PAL".

It would be a regular PAL...like for a firearm. The whole point is to have it under the firearms PAL. Weed out the tards' early and make sure only those responsible ( for the most part....) have airsoft.

However, I'm pretty sure you would only need a non-restricted PAL which is roughly $100 and 8 hours, you write your test...pass...paperwork is sent in and 1-2 months later you have your PAL in the mail. It's not that hard.....unless you have a criminal record.....

It would be a HUGE step forward in a good way for once. ( for airsoft )

hey hojo still offering GUN DOCTOR SERVICE??

Also on that note....no guns, but metal recievers/kits/slides are a go still, just no complete guns?

"ASC was not discussed, no names were exchanged, nobody got compromised, and I got a small pile of paperwork to study PLUS the name of a key person to contact.

I will gladly share that information with HoJo by PM, if he's interested."

Good work ! Thats the definite first action required. I'm 100% with the idea to link it to a PAL , I'd actually proposed this among my squad some time ago... and was heavily flamed as I remember *Shrugs*. I think we should almost make a PAL manditory for airsoft period. We brought out some idiot to play one time and he decided to look down the barrel of a locked and cocked Glock with no safety goggles . needless to say he was never allowed back out

The process isn't that bad - it is a mandatory 2-day crash course that you must take (cost is $80-120) depending if you want it for non-restricted or restricted firearms.

After the course, you take a written exam and viola - it then gets sent to the Chief Firearms Office in your province for background checks (yes, criminal record checks) and such. No pysch analysis or anything of that nature.

If you want to transport your firearm say to a range, you will need an ATT - which is just another fee - that is all.

http://www.firearmscanada.com/firear...y_courses.html

Cheers,
KaOz.

Technically, you can just take the test, as long as you pass it. PAL would definately make our lifes easier...

Woah careful.... ATT's are only required for restricted weapons, non-restricted you can transport at any time (as long as they are properly transported).

We would like to avoid getting Airsoft classified as restricted, that would mean all kinds of red-tape that I won't go into (if you have your PAL Restricted, you know what I mean).

Otherwise still a great idea, 100% behind it.

From a licensing perspective, a PAL would work to prevent and control who gets an airsoft gun as it does for a real gun. Also, real guns are serialized for registration and linked to the PAL owner's license - airsoft has no such serial #s. So the registration system would have issues with guns with no numbers - so thats a point you'd have to sell as well...

The only problem is that all the course material regarding the PAL is based on real guns and the processes surrounding them. Airsoft guns are different - for instance using ACTS and PROVE with an airsoft gun would be different - a lot different - ie: how do you check an airsoft gun's chamber? How do you check for an unobstructed barrel? How do you make the gun safe? Its a different process. So you'd also be asking the system to change the course material - thats a long stretch as there was a lot of argument within the firearms community over what was in the course and how its taught. Convincing the CFC to add airsoft gun information and handling to it... I still have to wrap my brain around this one.

I've done a fair amount of course work now for various different aspects of firearms ownership (beyond qualifying for a simple PAL) and the other thing I see is a huge attitude difference between those who own real guns and those who just 'play' airsoft. The community and its priorites are different. I am not sure many of my friends who are in airsoft would want to co-exist in that community or be held to its standards... not that you'd have much choice if PALs were used though.

Also a PAL does take at least $140~ plus $40 in licensing. And they won't let you do a PAL "lite" for airsoft because a PAL fundamentally lets you traffic in and possess firearms. I would never recommend to anyone to challenge the exams, only because the courses are very good and no matter what your age or experience, requalifying your safety and knowledge is a good thing. But there is a provision for a person to challenge the exam.

Considering how things are going to go for gun owners if we don't get a majority Conservative government in the next election, you may not want Airsoft related in any way to real firearms.


They take one away they take both.

X2

What is currently required for Pellet and normal bb Airguns? (At work, in a rush, no time to research)

I know we've all bemoaned this before but I'll bring it up one for time... Those .177 Pellet pistols that look 100% like a real Beretta are a hell of a lot more "dangerous" and are perfect replicas just as much as the Airsoft pistols.

As I recall, there is nothing required at all besides age?

To get a PAL, all it takes is money and a weekend....

You are correct, I have a .177 that I purchased a few years back a LeBarons... all you need it to show ID and sign a waiver- that's all. They are definately much more dangerous than AirSoft - but again, not the issue at hand.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...d=1#post431431

Thanks,
KaOz.

We all talk about PAL !

But in reality we want to have a permit and aquisition permit for Airsoft !

Do not mix Real gun ownership and airsoft.

As talked with the GRC and sureté du québec here last november : Autority are all open to create a permit for this sport, we just have to present ourself, come forward, do our homework and present what they will gain by opening up this market ; $$. There was also permit talking about creating a kind of permit like fishing permit ( you are aloud to buy and pratice your hobby on autorised field and buying from autorised retail airsoft store. the worst was for the retail owner ( they told me what kind of infrastructure i had to have if i want to sell airsoft ). I have to build a secure safe room to stock inventory between closed hours, 2 security system, 1 linked to the police station, the store have to be in 10 km of a police station, all the wall of the store have to be reinforced, the window have to have security bars, you have to have a security guard, a security cam that broadcast on internet real time on a secure server, if build at a field you have to have a security fence with barbwire, and finally fully insured... Finally i ask some contractor to fill this quote to build this requirment over my field and they came with a nice total of 97 000$ + Fee to be legal supplier of airsoft 2000-3000$ a year.

So at last i step down, but they are way to make it.

If everybody go together and take time to do the project we will prevail..

Just to let you know i'm sure that are many people like me who did that kind of research if all these people come together and create a mutual project we can finally legalise the airsoft.

JF

After checking that list and going true everything they did asked for, i come out for

The process to create the ultimate file is long and hard work. Some people in quebec had already begun that process, but badly the main figure of that movement went in the army, so now it's stopped.

We also need to have input from all Retail store that sold airsoft in the past to create a figure with the number that airsoft canada was at : $$$ and what kind of buisness it can attain by being legal.

How can anyone be suprised by what has happened? For the half a year that I've been on this forum, People have always flamed anyone who talked about stepping outside of the shadows and into the public eye. The same thing has happened anytime someone stated that "we need to do something to prevent airsoft from being stopped".

And to every person that flamed someone when they wanted to help and be proactive, I say... It looks good on you.

(sorry bout your store HJ)

There is some truth to what you say Kurgan - this community is sometimes its own worst enemy. On the other hand you also have to make sure that those who choose to speak on your behalf are sending a message you agree with. I don't think that reaching a consensus on that presentation or goal is as easy as logging into a dboard and singing Kuymbaya together.

Scarecrow, thank you finally some one who can articulate what I was tring to say.

Airsoft draws many....odd people to it...many people who you dont want fighting to keep airsoft going because they will just do more harm then good.
Its true. We had people before who were about to gear up and go protest on Parliament Hill...Ill bet the soccer moms would love that.

Trying to convince soccer moms and a gun scared society is a loosing battle these days. We can scream responsibility all we want, but every week we see new articles about negative airsoft(related) incidents in the news.

Its hard to be adult males who dress up and run around with toy guns to come accross as anything but Kimveer Gill look alikes.

Keeping airsoft low-key has worked for over a decade. And the fact that things are going to shit now has nothing to do with our lack of action. Your never going to convince a society whos biggest concern is safety that replica assault rifles are a good thing. The crackdown train is coming, and all we can do is slow it down.

Its true, we could get the word out about how responsible we are, but all it takes for all of ASCs responsibility to be blown out of the water is one bad headline.

Every airsofter in the country still only makes up a small percentage, and against the public safety groups, we are fucked.

To avoid coming across as a bunch of gun crazy psychopaths, I say we do what we have done before. Have the best and brightest of the community send out prepared letters to the correct people.

I doubt that it would help, but its always a good thing to address the issues with your MPs. HOWEVER, if thats the case, Id say our top dogs...say hojo, scarecrow, lawdog, etc. prepare a letter that can be released to the community and then sent out individually to MPs...something well written, only the facts etc.
Be better then an MP getting "OMGzor, ban my gun and I pwn ur ass" in an email.

I am just actually heading out the door to have lunch with Hojo and get up to speed on his angle on things. I obviously have both a hobbiest interest at stake here like all of you, and (what is worse?) I just put an order in for about $7000USD of BB product for the upcoming season, so, I have a lot at stake from that point of view as well (frankly I could have spent that money on a new car).

I am prepared to work on behalf of the community, as well as my own interests, in trying to represent our point of view. I am just not sure at this stage who we talk to or what avenue to take and I am loathe to speak on behalf of this community without its majority consent. I've railed against that in the past and I won't be speak for people who don't feel I represent their viewpoint accurately or take a high risk position if the majority of people feel the potential risks outweigh the rewards.

I think despite the online cantankerous nature of this board, the way ASC Armory went about the 18+ approach to sales and the general concern always expressed about safety and keeping the AEGs, GBBs and AEPs out of the hands of would-be baddies will stand us in good favor. I just don't know if its enough to overcome the rabid hoplophobia rampant in the media and at the political levels in this country and no matter what we do, as Droc says, you can't spin this hobby as soccer-mom friendly. The very images we create and try to portray are the very ones that everyone is scared to death of.

I think to satisfy peoples need to do something the writing the MP thing may be a good start.
But like I babbled about earlier, Id much prefer a professionally prepared letter that we can all send to our respective MPs to prevent any backfire.

We have some members here with political lobbying background who have come forward as well, so I think you're right Droc, I think hitting our MPs with our point of view is the starting point.

What I think we need to get clarity on is, is this raid part of a wider CBSA effort, and is local law enforcement helping them to that end, OR are we seeing a general crackdown that will eventually lead to individual players being harrassed. As I said I don't know anything for sure and I am just as in the dark as the rest of you. We need to watch the press conference for that bust in Markham very closely to see which way the wind is blowing. The last thing we want is individual players being targetted with a new law enforcement interpretation and cleanup initiative.

The content of such a letter will be dictated in part by what we see in the next little while.

If this letter is ever written, I can translate it for our brothers and sister in Québec. I have a degree in translation and did rather well in the legal translation class. Unless someone with more experience and knowledge comes forward, in which case I defer to his/her expertise.

For Droc, Scarecrow, HJ and the rest, couldnt agree more, from point's of keeping passive and in the shadows, to not wanting to sound like flaming pro-gun violence freaks and all. There's two threads going at the same time on this, think if anything it be good to pool those that have heavy legal and I guess political? backgrounds to make sure everything's voiced properly.
I'm all for pro-activeness forsure, but the kind that's peaceful, productive and does get thing's done without making us look nuts.
Cheers

Where is kd when you need him. He walways pops up in talks like this.

A&A airsoft is going to have a SHITLOAD of business now :D

Scarecrow - I'm all for what you're saying and will be supporting whatever the most senior levelheaded members such as yourself think is a good avenue to pursue. If that means sending a prescripted letter to my MP, consider it done. If it mean travelling to sign a petition, done. One thing I won't do is give up and call Airsoft dead. Consider this just another MILSIM, and we need some intel and our officers to come up with a plan. You'll have everyone's support.

F3 is behind you.

I would just like to clarify that people are saying that if more dangerous bb guns aren't under the law of PAL, then y should airsoft be? it is because they are easy to obtain and are considered replica firearms and are being used to rob banks and things like htat, its not the power, its the look... Please don't post the world is over comments... all this is doing is making people with no experience with the law panic, just relax and wait for HoJo

I'm one of the Admins from Atlantic Airsoft out east. If theres anything we can do let us know. I'm sure you have been or will be in touch with bean.

We have been thinking for a while now about putting together some sort of package that could be presented to our local governments (NB, PEI and NS). I guess now would be a good time to get this done.

Being the only retailer of BB's in the maritimes i also stand a lot to lose other than the greatest hobby ever.

I am what you guys would call a noob but i've had an airsoft gun for a solid 4 years,(even though its clear, it was the only thing available in my area), and really i was only getting into the sport side of things and contemplating a nice AEG instead of my sad crosman but this thing is gonna put up serious walls for me and any new player wanting to start playing so im saying its completely retarded for them to put a law on them for one they arent real firearms and PAL's are for fire arms, two who really wants to go take a course to own a u gun that shoots bbs and three its not fair at all

Total posts by this guy 5, date joined Jan 2007.... nuff said?

i cant even remember the last time a bank was robbed in canada let alone using an airsoft gun. i understand the point you are trying to make in the fact that these look real and could be used for that. but stating that as a fact is only adding to the confusion right now.

If you have proof please proove me wrong. im not trying to be a dick but a lot of people are getting panicy right now and theres no reason for it.

"We have some members here with political lobbying background who have come forward as well, so I think you're right Droc, I think hitting our MPs with our point of view is the starting point."

Completely agreed. We need to get an information package together of some sorts as well as a very well written and drafted letter expressing our concerns desires and suggestions. Once this is done we can have it available to download and customise with MP's name etc. Then have everyone download and submit it to the MP. This information package should include A) A draft of the problem B) Our suggestions on a solution C) Information on the sport in general D) Saftey procedures and age restrictions in practice E) Openness to suggestion from the government side on a solution.


To address the issue of robbing banks with airsoft guns... You would think this would be an advantage lol. People who are going to rob banks are goign to do so regardless, now would you rather them do it with a real gun or one that if it misfires will only leave a bruise ? Not saying this should be part of our political platform, only that its something funny to think about.

anything presented to the government has to include economic benefits if you want them to pay any attention

They're getting tax from sales and promoting tourism in Canada when players travel to games. Those are economic benefits for sure.

as well as duties on the goods imported, accessories, and if changes were made the import of guns as well. the actual impact of airsoft on the economy extends beyond the games. the ability to openly have retailers would offer employment there and increased ability to collect taxes because of the associated additional incomes and gst on what is sold. . an enhanced ability to actually get the gear would mean more players, so more fields, more employment and other benefits there.

those are the things i can think of just off the top of my head for what kinds of economic impacts it would have...

Yup, send me a package.

I was reading a post before and some one mentioned the license idea. Well may be not a P.A.L. but what about something along the lines of a fishing license you pay X amount for X amount of years to fish. Well you pay X amount for a X amount of years to play air soft. The New Government makes money off of the license.
If you do not have a license, or you are using an air soft rifle in a way it was no meant to be used e.g. bank robbery…… ect, and you get caught you get a large fine, jail term, or other forms of punish meant. This could sound hard to some people but if we treat air soft like real guns in some ways, why not have real penalty’s for people’s actions.

The advantage to the PAL over the fishing licence is that due to the process to get a PAL the retards are weeded out, it's a system that is already in place so adapting it to include airosoft isn't that hard and it has airsoft regulated in a more serious manner. The consequences for selling to minors is much more harsh then some BS " airsoft licence ".

As you mentioned...we treat ( or should be...) airsoft like real guns...so why not just complete the process and require PAL's. Having a seperate " airsoft only" licence either in PAL version or otherwise is not going to happen. It isn't plausable let alone in the eyes of the government even realistic.

Also, the government seems to be hell bent on treating them as replicas covered under the firearms act. So it'd probably be easier to swallow for them if we let them do so, and at the same time bring our side to the table. I"m starting to think that a PAL based system would be a really good idea for all involved.

What you don't understand re: replicas, is that ANYONE can own one....10 yr old, clinical psycho, your grandma....anyone.

It's how the law relates to IMPORTING them that'll screw ya.

Want to make a huge difference? Somebody start importing parts and set up a manufacturing plant here in cunukistan.

Not all parts that build a gun can be imported.

Nice try, genius.