Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:
 

- Because it was a 'feel good' measure not addressing the anti's concerns. Ironically now that the 'franchise' has been denied to younger players, instead of making the sport more legitimate it's become much less so.

"Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:"

And never will. Mandatory regulation is either going to be imposed by us or upon us. The latter means the end of airsoft in Canada.

There is no more "living under the radar" or "we'll just continue to do what we've always done" bullshit. Either we shape up (all of us), or melt down your guns for pencil-holders.

We're on the radar now and clearly in the sights of LE and government. It's only a matter of time until THEY pull the trigger.

Alarmist rhetoric? Maybe? Better that than the "head in sand" syndrome gripping the community these days.

your link didnt work...

While we have had our differences, I have to agree one hundred percent dude.

While I preach in other threads that what we are trying to sell is so scary it will probably not ever be accepted, that doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't try.

We know what they want, we should at least go down fighting and yelling our viewpoint as loudly as we can.

It's still a fucking free country.

That's more or less ruled by the paranoid soccor moms.

Scary is right, I've told close friends what I do, and I still get the "You're fuckin' nutz!" look, and these people know me personally. Imagine the thoughts of someone who has no clue who you are?

And I agree with the kicking and screeming part. Because as I see it, they WILL ban us, so we might as well let them know how we feel about it. Hit them while they are not ready for us, instead of reacting to what they do.

In my experience, the one who lands the first punch usually wins. I know it doesn't apply here, but I'd rather fight my rapist now, either than wait and see if he's serious or not.

Municipalities are free to establish by-laws to make replicas illegal within their jurisdictions.. the penalty for by-law infractions are fines.

For the most part... most municipalities already have by-laws in place making it illegal to discharge anything that fires a projectile within the municipality.
And Municipalities are free to define a firearm at whatever fps they want.. most have taken the stance that anything that fires a projectile at any speed is a "firearm" under their by-laws.

Municipalities can aslo restrict trade in such "firearms" typically by making sales 18 + on pain of loosing your business license.

Although such bylaws can be limiting to our activites for the most part what we do as a community is within the body of most civic by-laws.

When I was setting up the FTF just south of Acton.. I met with the chief by-law officer of Halton Region.. and got a full rundown of the "typical" civic by-laws governing the use of replicas within the Greater Halton Region..

By-laws .. pretty much can be ignored...as they don't have much effect.. and are only enforced on the direct complaint of a citizen. And we are within the laws in most cases.

Most By-laws actualy serve our aims by making it harder for minors to get guns.. and giving ramifications out side of criminal charges for abuse.. so they are more likley to act as a deterrent to abuse for casual misuse of airsoft guns by minors.

ya know we could keep doing the soccer mom comments or we could finally organizie...

I'll wait for people to try to flame once again for suggesting that we actually try to do something with our community... Maybe Penquin will call me a facist again.

Bah! screw it, I'll book a room and call for an open invite for people to come and voice what those who are interested in trying to keep what little of our sport legal. people want to bitch about it and how others are going to force their rules etc etc should,
A) get your asses to games more often cause a great many have chairsofted for way too long.
B) not join up.
C) ignore anything that those who decide to organizie do and keep their heads in the sand.


ok guys go ahead and flame me.

Agreed. Maybe it's my European upbringing, but I'm not accustomed to just sitting down and taking it. When the goverment does something you don't agree with, you let it know.

Now, I'm not saying we should throw tact and proper etiquette out the window, but there are ways to make our opinions heard and we can, and in my opinion NEED, to start sharing them with the people that matter. Self-regulation is fine and dandy, but if we don't TELL people we're doing it, then what's the point?

I don't mean any offense to anyone on the site, but it's not ASC members that need to hear your opinion, it's your MP, your local representative and your town councillors. It's painfully obvious to anyone who spends enough time reading what the site's heavy-hitters, like HonestJohn, Blackthorne, Scarecrow, Greylocks and others, have to say about this; none of us would write our MPs saying "LOLz I likes shootin' ppl wit mah fake guns".

If we really care about the sport, then there's no reason NOT to write to the people that matter and give them a piece of our minds. It's time to explain to them that while airsoft (soft air, to them it's the same) has been used irresponsibly by childish teenagers in the past few months, the majority of airsoft players are responsible and that we feel it is unfair that the majority of us should suffer because of a few idiots.

Fact is that there are a lot of people who support the idea of organizing.. and creating a framework for self regulation and activism on behalf of the community.
And everyone is standing around waiting for someone to step up and do it.

Are you that person? It does matter who it is... because they must be able to garner popular support.. but mostly they have to be ready to carry a lot of water for every one else.

There is a huge gulf between talking about doing something.. and actually making it happen.

This effort will be pretty much a part time job for someone.. that costs you money rather than paying any.

Whos up for that?

The main reason not to write your MP directly is because that when you try and influence politicians if your group sends messages that are not completely lock step they will treat you like the ill-organized rabble that you appear to be, rather than the unified lobbying voice you want to be.

LD

Right, but firstly, we're not all writing to the same people, and secondly, we don't have to start the letter with "as a member of the ASC community"...you can address them as the citizen you are, can you not?

There is a false presumption here that anyone writing letters will be "speaking for the community" when in fact they might as well (and should, imo) speak for themselves.

:flame: (yes, I know the smilie doesn't work anymore)

Hmmm, I vote for Peter kang. :rolleyes:


As much as I would love to volunteer for this position, I do not have the time nor the political knowledge. But if something is to start off, I'd support it.

One person is not a lobby..

You can certainly raise personal concerns.. this is your right.. no one has anything to say about who you write letters to about what.
As a concerned citizen.. it is your right..

It is also their right to ignore you....

To affect change or even to get attention you need to have an organization of like minded people .. who are likely to VOTE based on the issue at hand.

+1. This leaving "heads in the sand" still leaves our arses up in the air for a good ol' fashion Government romping!

Brian: I'm not saying that it's IDEAL, but while we're just sitting around waiting for people to "organize" (if that's even going to occur) then it can't hurt for me to write to my MP to voice my concerns.

The fact is that, when the ASCA shenanigans happened a while ago, there was a lot of serious talk going around; there seemed to be genuine interest in doing something about the airsoft situation in Canada. I myself have a political lobbying background; it's been something I've been doing for the francophone community in Newfoundland and Labrador since I was 14 (believe it or not). At the time ASCA stopped selling guns, I made it clear to the important parties that I was ready and willing to help in any way I could. I am *highly* interested, in case this wasn't clear already, in putting my experience to use in this matter. However, no one seems to be able to agree with what (if anything) needs to be said to the government, and no one seems to be willing to step up to the plate and spearhead a federal lobby.

So again, while I wait for the more experienced, well-known and older members of the community to start something, what else can I do, other than offer my assistance to them and personally write the people who I vote for to let them know how I feel?

If the Federal Government wants to ban airsoft, and if you disagree with them, why WOULDN'T you say anything? To me this doesn't make sense; this isn't how democracy works.

There is no evidence that the federal government is planning on changing the existing laws... so there is no "ban" looming that we have to take action against to prevent.

With the RCMP taking over the administration and enforcement issues with respect to firearms.. they cut out the middle man and brought the enforcers much closer to the community.

All that has happened is an increased level of enforcement of already existing laws.

So we can cool the "stop the ban" talk.. there is no ban to stop...

So if we all go off and write letters about " saving airsoft" or stopping the ban... well you will be easily ignored... as there is no ban in place .. and none planned that we know of ( ignoring municiple by laws)

If you want to offer your services to an organization... get your PAL and get active in the existing firearms lobby... You can get to work right away. Any work that goes to eliminating the registry.. and amending existing firearms legislation to allow responsible gun owners access to their objects of desire can not hurt our chances of getting changes that benefit the airsoft community when it is our turn to lobby for clarity and reasonable access to replicas for responsible owners.

Frustrated with lack of action in this community... then go and help an existing already organized community.. because it is the same people who we will be asking to take action on our issues.

I realize that there is currently no evidence for that, but I was merely using a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point, which was that if people feel that one of their liberties is going to be taken away, that it makes no sense to take it lying down.

People here seem pretty uneasy about the whole situation, so even IF there's no concrete evidence, people are starting to feel that their sport is at risk.

Do you deny the fact that people on this site are worried that the government might ban, or otherwise restrict, airsoft? Of course not, because people ARE worried.

From my understanding of airsoft in Canada, this has been a worry since day 1. The tactic before was to try and fly below the radar; we were worried about what would happen, so we did our best to keep it on the down low. However, airsoft is now on their radar, thanks to dumbass kids who pull stupid stunts using similar guns. So now is the time for people to contact their representatives and explain that the majority of airsofters are not irresponsible morons and that you (we) feel that any bad publicity the sport of airsoft is getting is completely unfair and unrepresentative of the players who partake in it.

If we take a safe and sane approach by saying we promote 18+, training, safety, use only on approved fields and that we disapprove totally of airsoft use in crimes (we do), we have a chance of getting through to whoever our representative is. We can also explain to them that we'd love to get legal support in clarifying the status of airsoft guns so we can continue our sport while being serious about criminal uses. This is something Greylocks suggested to me when the whole ASCA thing occured.

Neither can writing your MP, but for some reason, many of you seem to think that's a bad idea.

Truth be told, it's not the community inactivity that I'm fed up with, it's the ANTI-activity that people are pushing forward; when people say they are going to write their representatives they are encouraged NOT to by members of this board, something I find completely ridiculous. The fact that this is a free country and a democracy notwithstanding, now that airsoft is firmly in place on the government's and law enforcement's radar, people should be encouraged, not discouraged, to speak to their representatives.

It is not kids playing that has caused the increase in enforcment it is the illegal trade that has done that.
Coupled with the increased incidence of replicas being used in crimes.

I think the RCMP is drawing a line between the proliferation of high quality replicas within the criminal element and the Illegal trade in them.. and they are likely not far off the mark.

Individual owners are not even on their radar.. and likely won't be because ther is nothing illegal about having these things ( regardless of when you got it)

But collecting more and more of them off the street certainly caused the police to investigate where they are coming from... and where they are going.
Add to this the FACT that is is now the federal Police who are charged with this task....and we see increased pressure on importers and generalized uncertainty about the future.

And this is where we find ourselves today...

As an individual that is unknown to the recipient... expressing concerns about your access to replicas in a letter to your MP simply does not hold much water... and may have the effect of drawing attention to the community at large ... and right now this community is not ready for or capable of responding to increased scrutiny in any manner that is helpful to the overall aim of preserving the existing access to replicas.. such as it is.

This is where I have made errors in the past by bumping up the profile of Airsoft... Where I may be ready to come out into the light... that does not mean that everyone is... and this has to be taken into account in your actions as a member of this community, as fractured and diffuse as it is.

....