Looking for an informed review on the VSR-10 and it's clones. AND KJW M700
 

Hi,
I'm considering purchasing a VSR10 G-Spec, or one of it's clones. Namely, the JG MP001. I've read quite a few reviews for each of them, but none by anyone that's directly had experience with both of them.

What I want to know is:
I'm not looking to upgrade either gun. How does the accuracy and long-range effectiveness of a stock g-spec compare to a stock mp001?

Thanks for your help.
-Cuppo

Direct experience with either gun would be helpful. Experience with both guns would be a godsend.

Personal experience with the VSR-10, Realshock, Pro-sniper, and G-spec:

- All very good rifles:
- Smooth action
- consistent
- simple
- range on par with (perhaps slightly more than) stock AEG -
---- this is a little subjective, and if it's more, it's marginal (maybe 15 feet)

I don't know anything about the clones, but having owned the TM version, I will tell you right away that getting one that isn't as good would be an immense disappointment, since the TM rifles were all very nice to use right out of the box.

They have their quirks, and they're a little light-weight, but overall the experience with the ones that passed thru my hands were good.

I'm personally not convinced that the going price for the TM VSR's is sensible, but I would rather pay more and get one that works than have to futz around with one that's sub par. That definitely includes accuracy, as the VSR-10's that I used shot very decent patterns (considering they're airsoft)

** i should add:

in terms of long range effectiveness, I would suggest that "it's airsoft", and that the same old argument applies to these rifles as to any other airsoft sniper rifle. It's never really "sniping" in the long range sense.

That being said, I've read a few things about the clone rifles being less consistent shot to shot than the original TM rifles. I would point out for the sake of argument that you may enjoy a stock G-spec or VSR-10 more even if it has less power due to the fact that you can count on the shots being pretty well consistent. A higher velocity gun that flings stray BB's might be immensely frustrating.

Thanks for your very objective review mysteryfish.

In reply to the comment "it's airsoft",
Is "sniping" actually effective at long ranges? Or do people choose to snipe more for the atmosphere than for it's effectiveness. I'm looking for a gun that's able to hit other people before they are able to hit me.

I also have used two seperate VSR-10 G-specs, one stock and one heavily upgraded. Stock range on a VSR-10 is, as MysteryFish said, slightly more than a stock AEG.

In general, upgraded snipers do fair quite well in terms of range, with moderate upgrades a VSR-10G can get about 150-200ft range, but the failings of the G-spec is the extremely short barrel length, which I believe is just under 330mm, which gives less time for stablized flight. Although TM did realize this potential problem and included a tightbore barrel as a stock feature.

As for the effectiveness of sniping, Yes you can outrange other people but some upgraded AEGs may be able to come close to reaching you regardless.

As for my upgraded VSR-10 (PSS-10 170% spring) I have consistently managed to make kills from distances of about 250ft.
I did however make that one odd shot at about 300ft into the wind and nailed a guy behind a shed. I was surprised to see the guy call hit because he was completly behind cover.

I never went too far with upgrades in the VSR-10's, so I can't honestly comment on long range shots, but I know that there are people who combine heavy BB's and an upgraded gun with some patience and are quite successful with the bolt action guns.

The range is certainly possible, but I'm not sure how much of the extra range is useful because I don't know when the BB's lose stability.

I'm not a nay-sayer though, I just don't actually know.

So, in general, it's been my experience that most people who use the bolt action rifles are carrying them for atmosphere, and are willing to accept the limitations of the guns and enjoy them for what they are.

But there are definitely a few people out there who have really pushed their rifles to the limit. I guess it depends how far you want to go.

Thanks for your input guys,
It seems to me that a stock BA is only useful for the atmosphere, and the BA really shines in it's ability to be upgraded.

So in that regard, I think i'll purchase a clone and see if sniping is enjoyable for me instead of jumping directly in.

Have there been any recent reviews on the KJW M700? The reviews that I read are all from 2005, and list a number of problems, ie..mag feed problems, and bent inner barrel. I'm wondering whether KJW has since fixed those.

Thanks mysteryfish and calvintat.

I guess I'm one of those that like to push the VSR to certain limits, I will provide a list of upgrades in my VSR-10 when I get the chance later this afternoon.

Well, personally I do want to pick up a KJW M700 for the cheap price, the problem with the M700 is fluctuations in temperature render the gun either useless or extremely dangerous. Couple that with the low round capacity of the KJW M700 magazines (at 10 rounds per mag) makes sniping that much more of a realistic venture.
The KJW M700 has a pre-installed flow-restrictor that is easily removed to increase the FPS by roughly 150%. To potentially remedy the bent inner barrel issue on the KJW is to remove a single barrel mount that way the barrel is allowed to free float to the best position for itself and could prevent the bent inner barrel. As for mag feeding issues, I havn't researched a lot into it.

For a beginner, I would say the KJW can be a good starter, but please leave the flow restricter in place and operate on Duster Gas on warmer days, until you are capable of accurately judging distance.

okay...upon reading more into it.
It seems the bent barrel in the KJW is by design.
I'm not sure what purpose it serves but it is intentional...

Perhaps CDN_Stalker can share his wisdom on this gun.

I thought the KJW M700 has the adjustable one, it is a set screw that can adjust the gun anywhere between 200-500+ fps? Or is that just the tanaka?

I purchased and used an HFC USR-11 for a while, it was the "real shock" version and made quite a thump when it fired. I did the weight removal mod and this increased the fps by about 60, it also lead to a couple air leak issues in the cylinder. The build was so-so quality but everything was replaceable with TM or third party parts. I would definitely recommend a longer barrel.

P.S. Sorry for the thread jack

I just got a MP001 and it is quite ggod. It is very light but you can add weight in the stock if you want. By wraping the hop up with teflon tape and using a tighgtbore you can get 450-490fps for $200 for the gun and 50 for the barrel. I have not installed the barrel yet but it shoots through the bottom of a coke can and flys 200 feet straight. Once the tightbore is on it should improve. I just wanted to try using a sniper gun and for the money it seems good.

Hmmm you got it from Buyairsoft?

I got mine through buyairsoft

Well i should be posting my gspec up after this weekend.

There great. Only reason I am selling mine is to fund some classic gun purchases.

Dragged back in again, eh?

Ok, here's a nutshell of the gun, clarifying some stuff mainly.

* Bent inner barrel: This isn't in every single gun, it's in about 2/3 of them I guess. What is going on is that the front barrel mount (attaches the outer barrel to the stock and holds it straight), if the base of the outer barrel where it attaches to the receiver is slightly canted from manufacture, then the mount holds the outer barrel so it sits perfectly in the stock, the inner barrel will gain a very slight bend. Remove the barrel mount, move the rear sling stud and nut forward (if you feel like it) and you've just relieved the barrel to sit as it wants to. I ordered 3 M700 (I was going for one, two teammates wanted as well, so I bought them) and out of the three, 2 of them had the barrel lean a bit to the left compared to the stock. One stayed straight.

* Flow restrictor: Only comes in the M700 Take-Down model.

* Gas use vs. temp: I strongly recommend duster in this gun if the temp is over 20C, but propane is fine under it. I let a bud use mine one game day, it was a high of +10C, I told him to keep the mags in an inside pocket unless he was going to take a shot, he had good power and accuracy all day.

* Mag feeding issue: Not a feeding issue, it's that the inner feed lips are a bit sharp, and when you push the bolt forward to strip a BB off the mag, it hangs up a bit, you press harder and a BBs pops out and gets loaded. Problem is, you just put a small cut on the BB surface, which will cause your BB to hook. Use a Dremel or diamond needle file to round the sharp edge where teh inner feed lips contact the BBs.

* Adjustable power: Yes, but not field friendly. Remove bolt, remove the two slotted screws from the bottom side, remove the set screw at the back of the striker (the part on the end that gets held back and releases to strike the mag gas release valve). From there the two halves will separate, you will see the striker spring. On the end of the rod there is a slotted screw head, you adjust it one way to give more tension (releases more gas) or the other for less. Then reinstall the set screw (it holds the rod), then both halves, put back in gun and try out.

Finally, this gun can be a sweetheart if yo utreat it right. Every 20 shots dry swab the inner barrel, it get really inaccurate after about 20 shots. And fill the mag first with gas (no BBs), and dry fire 4 times. Then load BBs, and go play.

Doing all this above, my groups went from CD sized at 30ft (basement) when I first got it, to this after about 500 settle in shots:

http://warmongers.dyndns.org/albums/...B_grouping.jpg

BTW, washed just means I got all the excess graphite off the BBs.

And case in point to the gun being that accurate and not me, my 11 year old daughter can nail (sitting and using bipod) 8-9 out of 10 bottle caps set up at 30ft!

Thanks for being so in-depth CDN_Stalker.
So I'm gathering from that display of accuracy that you're more than satisfied with your m700.

Would you say that the consistency of the gun was most affected by the sharp feed lips or the bent inner barrel? It seems weird for the bent barrel to affect consistency...as the barrel is consistently bent for each shot is it not?

Again thanks for the help.
-Cuppo

May I ask how much you ordered yours for? If I remember correctly, you ordered it from Grim Fandango right? Some of the shops in canada have really disproportionate prices...ie. the markup percentage for different guns vary...

Hey, i was wondering what weight BBs you guys have had best luck with for a heavily modified VSR G-spec. I know its gotta be 25 grams or higher, but what seems to work the best for you?

Ya, I bought it from Grim in 2005, cost was $310 each with shipping on top.

Seriously, I haven't fielded it yet, always trusted my CA M24 more just because I've always used it, this year I'm gonna field it more to see how it does.

I did some shooting at an indoor range I have access to (ok, it's an isolated storage area at work, some guys do archery in there at lunch) and 90ft is the measured range, here are two targets I took a dozen or so shots each on from each rifle to adjust hop up and zero my scope on the M24 (target right) and M700 (target left).

http://warmongers.dyndns.org/albums/..._at_90ft01.jpg

While the M700 printed exceptionally well with 0.29g and 0.30g BBs at 30ft, my M24 was a bit larger group, generally an inch or so with the occasional flyer................... the M24 put more BBs on target at 90ft than the M700 did (barrelwise, M24 has a 6.03mm bore, and the M700 has the stock 6.05mm) yet keeping in mind, I shot about 2/3 more M24 rounds than M700 just because I was focusing on the M24 since it's my "every game" rifle where the M700 was mostly use at home and the odd rental. But because it's a constant challenge to tame my M24 when playing, and now that I installed a KM RH65 hop up rubber, I'm having consistancy problems, could be due to worn piston head (my initial 515fps has dropped to 470fps after a year and a half of use), I'm going to give my M700 it's due and use it more this year. If it ends up being a nasty mofo for accuracy out to 150ft and past, then the rep I got from wishful thinking shots using my M24 will really piss people off when I field the M700 since I can get more BBs on bodies than dealing with follow-up shots.

stalker I love those targets

/offtopic

Found the online, mytargets.com or something like that. Just print off and use!

I alternate between SGM 0.29 and Straight (Digicon?) 0.36 Non-Graphite depending on the weather of the day. I usually keep 3 mags of 0.29's and one marked mag with the 0.36's in the case I need to try to penetrate heavy bush to get to a target.

Ditto, except it's two 0.29g SGM and one 0.36g Straight 0.36g (for when wind is too strong).

I'm most likely getting a VSR G-Spec with these upgrades
Prometheus Metal Spring Guide
Prometheus 130 Spring Upgrade
Prometheus Upgraded Trigger Sear
Prometheus Upgraded Piston Sear
Prometheus Upgraded Piston
Prometheus Silent Dampners
Prometheus Upgraded Cylinder Release
Prometheus 430mm Tighbore Barrel
Mini-Mil Dot Illuminated Sniper Scope
3pt Tactical Sling

It's got around a 405 FPS with all of those most likely

130 spring is rated as 130m/s = 426.509186fps

If the spring guide is of the bearing type, it'll add roughly another 15fps.

Depending on the tightbore you get (really, doesn't matter except it's a tightbore), you are looking at maybe another 10fps on top.

So, you'd be closer to 450fps than the 405fps (unless your fingers made a typo). And as long as you prove to have a minimum engagement distance of 80-100ft, you should be fine to play on any field, even if you are over by a few fps.

Since the topic of vsr clones is in the air can any one have experience with the JG Bar-10 mariu clone?

;)Thanks for the link cnd stalker but I already seen that I was just wondering if any one had experience with it, beause I don’t want to trust one source on the quality of the gun

;)

I posted the link because ASC is one of the last places you should look for information on non-standard airsoft sniper rifles. APS2/VSR G-Spec/CA M24/KJW M700 are pretty much the extent of what you'd get actual real info from. Point being, consider the airsoft population of Canada. Then drop it by a huge amount of people that will actually have good info regarding airsoft sniper rifles. Take into account the 100x greater airsoft population of the US, another 100x number or experienced airsoft snipers. Also the broader availability of oddball lower end sniper rifles than the above mentioned three.................. Hope that explains why I posted the link to find info, because it sure as hell won't be found on here! ;)

BTW, you are welcome!

This might be kinda off subject, but I think it pertains to the subject somewhat. In a match, do you find its more effective to heavily camo yourself and wait for a target to enter your fire zone, or would you say its best to try attempt to stalk a target or multiple targets. I can see the benefits to both of these techniques, but I wanted to get the opinion of some much more experienced players.