Thinking about giving up and leaving AS...
 

Well, I'm seriously thinking of putting everything up for sale and leaving w/o looking back.

I remember just a few years ago when Sierra introduced me to AS. We had long discussions and one of the main thing that stood out was respect. It was also a very closed community.

I feel like all the values we had are gone and I think it's worse in Quebec.

Crossing over to Ontario and spending the today @ the LZ is a whole different experience. It reminds me of the PQAC events, if you fucked up you were simply asked to pack your stuff and left.

What I have seen recently and that bugs me a lot, is the new talent doesn't seem to understand that it is still somewhat dangerous and we have to look out for eachother. And it's all about winning and body count. We had a guy in Quebec running around on the field with a golf counter thingy (I have no clue what it's called and I don't care).

MILSIMS, Ya right! Those are skirmishes with objectives! I haven't seen a real MILSIM in a long time.

And we also have the language dispute... which is totaly stupid.

So for many reason I might put all collection up for sale. I will take my decision in the next month or so.

What really irritates me about the airsoft community is that it seems people are more interested in being a gear whore or having the latest upgrade or the latest accessory. People seem to like dressing up in tons of tac vests and other gear that is over the top and unnecessary. Stop with the dress up time boyz. How can you feel ANY hits from other players under all that gear?!

This is all personal opinion, but I think airsoft needs to focus on playing the game and having fun. None of this mr.dress-up time.

White T-shirt is all you need.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. :smack:

In defense of Ontario airsoft, thats the first time I've heard of people being asked to leave the field. Once or twice people are asked to leave if they've done something very stupid, which you would reasonably expect them to leave after. Incidents of maliciously firing a BB into another player in the safe area for example. Don't judge the Ontario scene based on your first game in the area. Try other places like Wasaga and Flagraiders before you lose all hope and leave the game.

While I agree that some new players play like it's CS, I find that most will at least call their hits. Some of the older players don't, which I find ridiculous. Just because they spent the money on real gear, they think that they don't have to call their hits? And these are some of the real hardcore MILSIM players, not just old folks out for a day of fun.

Give the young ones time to get the run-and-gun out of their system. You have to show them and mentor them. I'm glad that the players here in Ottawa are very supportive (for the most part). I've only been playing a year, but I've learned a lot. If all the old hands quit because the new guys are not playing their style, then we'll lose all that knowledge and experience. So, from a new player willing to learn to an experienced player, don't quit. We need people like you.

Only thing I'd have to add is that folks get into the hobby for all different reasons, the 'dress up' factor being one of them. Some guy's like the gear, enjoy getting kitted out and that's their decision of what they'd like to dump their resources into. (Personally I'm a cheap skate, if I could afford it, I might have a better kit, but as it stands my 3 little guns and few bdus suite me fine.)
We've all been new at some point, and when is it that the bridge is crossed from n00b to vet? A season? Six? *shrug* been playing a year, and I still consider myself new.
Taking that into consideration, I've heard a lot of people going on about new players, or at times how games are run different from province to province.. Well we use these boards to learn what to do and what not to.
If you see something on field you don't like, someone not calling a hit, or a newbie doing something incredibly dumb, talk to them. Be a man, suck it up, and be democratic... if your too p.o'ed to talk to that player then take it to the game host, that's what their there for. But personally, I do believe (again my personal opinion) that older players should say something at the time of any incident, just be friendly 'hey buddy, ya know, it really is going to piss off people when you... - ' don't do it to instigate but hopefully they'll learn from it.

Ultimately HR it's your choice to step out or not.. =p Depends what kinda gear we can squeeze outta ya first.

When ever we approach the new guys and tell them about their mistake they say "You guys bitch all the time!" and such.

I miss X-Ray and the good old PQAC event for shit like that...

It seems like games hosting is now a source of income to some people, so of course they are nto going to say anything 'cause they want that player and his friends back for the money.

It took 4 summers (about 40+games or 3 years) before I finally got to play a true milsim, the Woodstock 24 Hour VN game. Sure, there were plently of fun semi-milsim games over the years but none had the true re-enactment of being in battle. No breaks for lunch or safe-zone chats. Getting attacked while eating dinner or in your sleep. The game just went on and on as we continously assaulted each other's bases and patrols. And despite there were really no hard-goals (except find base and attack), the game kept our interest piqued. Also, people did dress up and killcounts were kept but it was done within the milsim context.

From what I know is that there have only been 3 games like this in the past 4 springs/summers (2 at woodstock, 1 at WP Muskoka). Most of them happened recently and Im hoping that there will be an increasing trend in the amount of games without designated lunches or breaks. The games where you come out dead tired and feeling like ass are the ones that you never forget and I hope there will be more to keep me in Airsoft

hellranger, stay at the LZ! or come to muskoka....or you will leave airsoft! lol

You want milsim and not scrims, so that is why I joke about the other fields.

PS> this wasn't hellranger's first game in ontario.

Yer hanging around with the wrong players dude.

Milsim is alive, it's just a smaller group. Unfortunately we still have to play at games where there are folks who don't take it as seriously. That's the nature of the sport right now. We may not like it, but it's either play at those games or don't play.

I am still hoping some day there will be a 48-120 hour op with some folks who are serious enought to take a fucking week of vacation and get really immersive. Those folks are out there man. It's just going to take some time.

I think the biggest barricade to a healthy Milsim environment right now is the lack of motivated, serious OPFOR. This issue takes an already small Milsim community and basically pits it against itself, effectively halving the numbers. Make for a great game tho.

Quite frankly, I have more fun training with the core group of people I play with right now. It's taken very seriously, pushes me mentally and physically, and transitions from AS to other areas of my life.

If I want to skirm, I'll play paintball.

It's really unfortunate that your finding that at your feilds. I'd assume players, especially new, wouldn't want their reps trashed and that's a biggie if you pull stupid shit. More so, hosts, atleast here have to use other paintball feilds, not their own, so none that I know of are really into it for revuenu. Suppose if your finding these problems then back out from the game for a while or stick to private hosted event's. Evrey season will bring up new players, I don't know how 'new' this problem is with vet's having issues with n00bs, you'd think it be something that would happen pretty much every spring/summer.

I'm still gearing myself up (mentally I guess) for a true milsim game. Skrimishes help teach ya what you need to know, before hitting up a milsim and doing really dumb things..personally I still make pretty dumb mistakes on occasion, rather wait for everything to come pretty much naturally before doing anything major..

'gain dude, if it's not clicking for you and your not having fun with the sport anymore, maybe just hold off from ditching it completely and go on haitus for a while, that and winters coming, don't see many newbies out in -10 or more degree weather..

It's hard to explain some of the issues that I have.

One good examble was @ the LZ someone was certain to have registred a hit on me with his pistol as he got shot from the CQB house and he was upset about it. I finally figured if the guy is that certain I might as well take it, I figured I didn't feel it not heard it. So, I was walking through hollywood and discussing it with Ex-Royal and the guy (sorry can't remember your name) overheard me and came over all pissed thinking I was complaning, I explained to him that I took the hit 'cause I figured he was right and everything was fine. He then came back to see later and told me, "When I think about it now, I'm not all that certain I actually hit you!" we laughed abotu it and that was it.

Most of the guy at the LZ are pretty intense, but are also mature enough to deal with issues properly.

One thing that gets to me is when you get hit in the head and you say something along the line of "Ouch! Right in the fucking head!" and the first thing your hear is a jackass laughuing at you, when the first thing that should follow is "Are you OK?". I got pissed at the guy trying to make him understand that he's reaction was not the best in the world, then I get the following answer "So what, I'm wearing a T-Shirt and get hit the arms all the time and I don't complain about it...". I just wanted to deck the guy on the spot....

I'm simply sick and tried of freaking assholes like that and we have way too many of those running around these days.

From my point of view both as a player and game host, the most important part of airsoft is not if its a milsim or a skirmish day, but to have fun. At the end of the day, thats all that really matters.

Your right though HellRanger, too many hosts are about money and wont tell people to leave. Honestly, I dont have a problem telling people to leave at one of my games. However there has to be a damn good reason for doing it. Everyone makes mistakes, its a fact that we all deal with.

I dont think I would give up on the whole AS scene just yet. As FrozenCriket said, if all the "vets" left who would the new players learn from. Everyone has a certain style of play. Myself for example, I have none, I will generally play any kind of game. I am about having fun.

There are alot of new players, more so in the last couple months here in Ottawa. They all come from a paintball background and most still have that run-and-gun mentality. Once they get into the milsims or semi-milsims they will become better players. You just have to give them time and mentor them. If we dont take these new players and mentor them, then they will just keep playing run-and-gun.

As for assholes, guess what my friend, there sadly everywhere. In the Ottawa community we dont have too many, luckily.

This weekend at the foxden we had a noob vs vet day and it was probably one of the funner games I have played.

Ultimatily the choice is yours. I would hate to see you go seeing as I only meet you back at Holyman Redemption this season.

As a host and a player I feel your pain
 

As communities grow their character changes and factions splinter off of the larger group.

Long time players that I have had the opportunity to speak to lament the passing of "the old days" where everyone respected one another and shared common cause.

The old days are replaced with today.. where players who "just don't get it" seem to dominate the community...

I run 2 different facilities, TTAC3 which is an indoor CQB facility... and FTF which is an outdoor woodland field.
I have been successful in both places of developing a community that supports the type of operations I prefer.

For CQB a training based approach devoted to developing skill at arms and small team skills... and at FTF a group of players who enjoy MILSIM play over skirmish..

It has taken a while to acheive this.. and I would be lying if I said that I have not had to make concessions to attract players... but all in all I have stuck to the principles of working towards a "reality based" foundation to game play.

I have only had to turf a couple of players from games... most who do not "fit in" don't come back and that suites me fine.

The result.... I have created a "facton" or a subset of the wider community.. I have ignored "commonly accepted" pratices such as "mercy rules" to introduce more reality in CQB play in particular, A practice that got me initialy shunned by the wider community ( there were many other reasons as well some of them valid ) but over time I have carved a niche... and acheived a measure of acceptance in the community....Or at least the corner I inhabit..

So don't give up on this community... find where you fit.. and participate with those that you share a common "world view" with... The community is actually large enough for both the t shirt clad skirmisher and the heavily laden "gear whore" milsim enthusiast. On thing that is certain... a great many more "t shirt clad skirmishers" eventually come around to milsim and proper gear than "milsimers" turn to skirmishers... so there is reason for hope

i sympathize with you in many points hellranger.

-issues with new teammates
-lack of respect in the community (in quebec)
-in game behaviors (lack of maturity from many players)

About type of game, i think you know more than enough the community in quebec to choose your type of game with people you want to play with.

You fucking PAY ATTENTION. While I am pretty basic when it comes to gear, I use a loadout that I would expect to use in the real world. You can hear and feel hit just fine unless you are in a really loud environment.

What you call Mr. Dressup time others call challenge. Stick a couple of fucking steel Level III plates in your rig, a full 3 liter blader, a real world loadout of miscellanious crap (batteries, food, assorted kit) and a few extra pounds to simulate a real ammo load, and go play the same game you play in your tee shirt. I bet you have just a touch of trouble.

I want to experince what a soldier goes through, at least from a loadout perspective. It's not about fucking shooting people. It's about trying to APPRECIATE the real world environment, and still be able to complete whatever task you are set to do.

And where do you put all your mags? Oh RIGHT..HI-CAPs....only need one.


go figure

You are NOT talking about Milsim. You are talking about skirmishing, and if that's what you are after you are one step away from paintball.

I ain't knocking the skirmish crowd, but I see a very CLEAR link between that crowd and the new, piss poor attitude, out to kill em all, rules are optional, MSN speak, "new generation of airsoft".

It takes very little skill, in my opinion, to run around in a painball field (a la Fagraiders), expend 1000-2000- BB's soaking averything to get kills.

Go sit in Muskoka in August and wait for an ambush opportunity. Don't see many skirmishers doing that. They can't even handle the blackflies, let alone have the patience to play a game where they only shoot 55 BB's.

That's one good point, but for many people the objective (no matter what the CO assignments are) is to rack some kills.

Edit: And to add to your sitting there for hours w/o firing a single shot. I have been there done that and captured the CO in the middle of the night in his own tent. Simply by waiting for the sentries to get sick of their guard duty and going to bed. Woke them up and had them fetch their CO for us to capture and bring back to oru base camp.

Those were the days.

+1 Yuxi and Blackthorne (you beat me to it)


The "problem" with milsim is that it only takes one slightly-less-than-fully-clued person to derail things for everyone. Like someone talking during a movie.

I agree. And that's part of what I see as the problem. The younger generation of airsofters are trying to transition from X-Box to Real Life, and you end up with the "skirmish mentality" of racking up kills rather than approaching the sport from a Milsim perspective.

It's a free coutnry, and skirmishing has as much right to be around as Milsim!

But I think that without some balance, it's going to turn airsoft into painball without the legitimacy, encourage asshats to get involved, and get the whole thing banned.

Hellranger,
you will always have hot heads on the field. no matter wich part of Canada you are in. Keep talking with orginizers of the events and you CO"S @ games and belive me shit will get resolved fast.

Blackthrone,
I play with a high-cap does it make me not as milsim as you. not looking for argument. but my gun only likes high caps belive me I hate it I have star mag that don't load in my gun.

Hellranger,
just remember the one who do the shit then with a little intimidation pepole will either ship up or be pushed out of the comunity real fast.

Somewhat but I think that's in part what people are there for: people want trigger time, which is sort of realistic in itself. But the other half of the problem, IMO, is a lot of games (not pointing to, or slamming anyone -- nor was I at this particular game: this is a generalized comment) have simply equated complex scenarios/objectives with milsim.

While it may appeal to some, I think sometimes there are just so many hoops to jump through that many players simply lose sight of what they're supposed to be accomplishing. I have often witnessed people going "what are we supposed to be doing?" and have even been there myself a couple of times. Over-contrived objectives, medic, respawn, blah blah blah blah just overwhelms people and bogs down fluidity.

In large part, I feel this is because there's no Chain of Command in airsoft (and historically players have been reluctant to both lead and be lead) which makes it difficult to orchestrate a complex action while maintaining simple step-by-step objectives for "people on the ground," so to speak.

Simple, Direct, But no walk in the park. Realistic.

Operation Border War Hosted by 1RPC
 

Hellranger

I think you should come out in October and have a good time at our Milsim event. I think were extremely organised and were expecting over 150 airsofters. Hopefully we won't have any safety problems. The kit restrictions allow many different types of players and equipment to play equally on the field. My intention was to move away from skirmishing for this event and give the teams a flavour of a well planned Military Operation where missions and duties changes as the day proceedes with many objectives. The field alone is huge and gameplay enless. I would like to invite you as my guest and hopefully we see you out there on October 13th.

Krusty
Cheif Planner
Operation Border War

okay with the argument shifting now from skirmish to milsim, to bring it back to main point's, testostrone (sorry guys) and dick beating does come into play. lol even on here, I think blackthorn with a milsim 'shut up or get out' attitude. If I were a n00b and I have been put in this possition, if anyone put back their shoulders, I would too. Could be one outlook why newbs might be acting a bit mean or hot headed.
Albeit, when you start, bodycount's are great, now I've shifted (personally) to resesrving ammo, trying to play real cap, and being more proud of 'shit I've only gone through 1/4 of a single mag all day!' - games like that really make it for me.
There's always going to be preferances and different styles of play, who like's what, sim vs. skrim, gear vs. going light weight, and attitudes on feild.
Getting back at it, if your not having fun or feeling frustrated, take a small breather.. it could help.. lol plus in 3 months when your itching and miss playing, you didnt already run out and sell all your stuff off.
Just blow the dust off and get back into it.

Nice plug! :D

But I would like to keep this thread going the way it has been so far.

I'm happy to see the amount of participation.
I have received a few PMs already.

I have to agree that I tend to expect a minimum out of people when they show up to an event, maybe a little too much in some cases. I also take this kinda seriously, but I also give up when the shit it's the fan in terms of the way things tuen to shit sometimes.

Paintball-soft?

http://www.rhc-hardball.dk/images/hgt06/32f.jpg
http://www.rhc-hardball.dk/images/hgt06/50f.jpg
http://www.rhc-hardball.dk/images/jul06/9f.jpg

*sigh*..

C.G. I think Blackthorn's point (at least this is how I read it) was that it's annoying to have someone with some Chinese Junksoft, OD pants and an Iron Maiden tshirt come out and start shitting on people with proper gear loadouts.

That, at the very root of it, is respect for other players.

The paintball soft attitude bothers me also. However I am no less of a milsim person by playing with a tec 9. Its just a choice of gun. Our area games have to be max trigger time or we lose players and we cant afford to lose players or we would have no one.

come play in windsor theirs none of that bs going on here!! just some good airsoft, the only bitching that goes on happens on our web site so it great down here. if you do leave im intrested in buying ur shit as soon as i get fkin verified!!!!! its been 2 months and i sent my shit 2 times!

Drake - okay, fair enough, if someone's out with an already piss pour attitude to start that say's one thing... and erm. I own a JG .. Multicam and and old old GnR shirt though.. damn.. yo.

I doubt every single person of that "new generation" is gonna be some guy who think he is playing a CS game, running around with an Iron Maiden t-shirt wasting 4k BBs/h.

I know I won't at least, and I'm part of that new generation !

Visit Manitoba. Seems we're doing things right.

I agree.

The best game I have ever played had no objectives except find/shoot the other base/players and dont get killed. Basically '1.Go out on field 2.Game starts in an hour 3.See ya in 24 hours' (although by 21 hours we felt some objectives could have helped)

This is EXACTLY what attracted me to airsoft, I got nibbling on the fact of the 1:1 replicas of real world weapons, then seeing some of the loudouts that people come out with(Eg: Yuxi ect.) That was the bite for me. I was hooked. Honestly, I played paintball a few times, tried squad tactics, rarely worked because of the "Run 'n' Gun" aspect that paintball seems to have to it, regardless I LOVE the rush the paintball gave me, and I can only imagine that it is about X10 playing airsoft. Honestly, I can't see myself doing a 24 hour milsim atleast for a while after I begin to play, I just don't think I could be able to perform to my best without having played a few scrims first.

That's my 0.02, hope to see you on the field in a few years.
Soviethippie

IPSC, IPDA and Service rifle my friend

Blackthorne, you need to respond without swearing and without the attidude.

Im not talking down on people who like their gear, I just think people sometimes load up way to much.

Im ALL for realism. I dont use hi-cap mags either, lol. I like to stick to my GBB if you really must know. I just have been to more than one game where direct hits have not been felt by other players because of excessive amounts of gear worn. If you can feel hits and call them, power to you and wear what you want.

I try to keep my gear around my waist area. I have my mag pouch/holder and my mag dump pouch. I also try to keep my back clear of packs/camelbacks because shots to bags are imposible to feel.

I love airsoft and was also drawn to the sport by the 1/1 realism of the equipment.

Dont take anything I have said personal, its just my opinion.

Thanks guys :kill:

Wasn't implying everyone in the "new generation" of players is like that, or even that it had anything to do with new players; I've seen the same attitude with some of the older players. Some people just want to skirmish, little or no gear, and that's fine: those are skirmishes.

But if people want to wear a full loadout to a skirmish, that's fine too. It's their business. And honestly you do need to get used to playing with a ton of gear on, it's hot, it's heavy, it's restrictive. But no one should be slagging them for it, and that where comments like "People seem to like dressing up in tons of tac vests and other gear that is over the top and unnecessary" become really annoying, and quite frankly it's just plain ignorant.

And if it IS a milsim game -- really milsim and not just glorified CS with contrived objectives -- then sorry, but I think it IS necessary.

That being said, I know there are many new players who are into the gear and realism and general milsim aspect of airsoft. But at the same time, if vets like Hellranger (who've seen and contributed to good milsim games) are fed up and thinking of calling it quits, I can only imagine how disheartening it would be to someone new hoping to find good milsim.

i must admit that i am partially hot headed when i play:P all be it i am new and have only been to a few games. Its just that you get so into it and don't realize it and you just start darting around shooting off hundreds of shots. I've also been told that i haven't called many of the shots that have hit me which i try to work on :P. Hopefully i can tone it down a bit when i play :P

Hi All,

As most of you know, i dont really post anymore in the general section mostly becuase of the shift in maturity of players and Chairsofters who seem to have taken over our glorious sport. BUT, seeing that one of the Vets of this sport is getting pissed enought to even thinking of quitting make me sick.

HR is 100% right, even if i am happy to see the sport grow.. to many people have tried to make a fast $$ and has brought whole sport to an all time low. There are 10 times more fields than before, 10 times more choices for players to make.. and 10 times less quality than was offered before (LZ and a few others excluded)

THe major problem is the same that existed when we started the PQAC. Too many people have opinions on how things should work. The whole reason for starting a club was to chanel those opinions into some soft of coherant, understandable and realistic gameplay. And the one thing that made it work was that all players respected the direction of the organizer who really do try hard to put on good games. The players that woudl not.. woudl just be asked ot leave or to never show up. It seems that today, all respect for organizers is lost. I have been to great potential games in the last few years, games that you can see had taken alot of energy and thinking to set up just to see the scenarios go to shit because certain players woudl either not show up or decide to do their own thing. The only way scenarios work is if all pieces work together, the airsofter being the most important piece of the puzzle. IF YOU COMMIT TO PLAYING AN ORGANIZED EVENT... THEN COMMIT TO PLAYING THE ROLE ASSIGNED TO YOU> On the other hand, if you want to Skirmish.. then the game should be clearly identified as a skirmish game.

Players shoudl recognize what they like to do and ignore games that does not fit their style. everyone will be much more happy.

This is one of the main reasons why the PQAC only organizes private games, INVITE only, because we feel that whatever energy we put into games, we want everyone that participates to enjoy and appreciate the day they are paying for. Also, We as organizers want to enjoy the day... not run around trying to fix what selfish players decide to change.

For anyone interested in scenario play, please contact BRUCE to be added to the roster for invite. And for those who do not know our style, we love what we do.. but we dont accept any Bull.

cheers

Raven

Feel the Hits!
 

This whole feel the hits issue is bulls**t in my opinion regardless of how much gear you wear. It is just an excuse for a player to carry on when they know damn well they have been hit. It is convenient and well used excuse that holds no weight with me.

The sound of BB hitting cordura/nylon packed with gear is distinctive and hard to ignore unless individuals choose to do so.
Watching the bb bounce off your gear and drop at your feet is hard to ignore unless the player chooses to use that as a excuse for not getting shot. You may wear a helmet, but since you cannot feel a hit you will ignore the bouncing BB's and the sound it makes and hope know one notices.

I have better than 30/20 vision and I can see my BB right up to the time of impact. I don't miss much and I have seen the realization in people that they think they can get away with it since it only hit part of their gear, not them in a fleshy part of the body. You wear it, its hit, your gone. Too many times I have had to follow up a one or two shot hit with a BB hosing to get people to call out. There was a time when this was never needed and people did not have to resort to hi-caps to ensure they put 20 bb's on a player before they called themselves out.

Regardless of Milsim or Skirmish, If there is one thing that could drive me to give up the sport is this lack of responsibilty and unfair behavior, because in peoples minds they want to be the ultimate "soldier" even if they have to cheat to realize their ambition.

Bah... there will always be cheaters... or sometimes it is legitimate. When it happens... just shoot them again.. its part of the game... just make sure you shoot them where you know they will feel it eh! Also, if it becomes a pattern with certain players, just make sure you advise teh organizers.. they will take it into consideration next time they invite certain people!

it saddens me as well to stand by and watch all these new players getting into the sport for the wrong reason. it seems there is no honour chivalry or sportsman ship in them. its all about geting any edge over your opponent to ensure you win instead of meeting them on a level battle field. all too often you see people rediculously upgradeing their guns and hid behind them, a psg1 barrel and a hicap in a p90 @ 400fps... cmon... thats just rediculous. or a drum mag on an ar or g36. does no one like to change mags and give their opponent a chance? these are "cheater guns"

its not about winning or loseing, its about haveing a great time and enjoying the game. too many people are getting tunnel visino and focusing on the final outcome of the one game, you dont "win" just because your team won, you "win" when youve played so everyone youve been along side or come up against says "wow, what a great player" or even if it doesnt come to that, just ensuring theyve had a good time as well. its everyones reasponsability to work together friend or foe to complete the package and make the game a good time.

to me the problem lays with the weapons, as i said people are becomeing too dependant on them, modding them so they can engage an opponent before they get too close often to the point where the opponent still doesnt even have range himself. too many people are dependant on hicaps - problem? ultimatly yes. no one take the time to learn trigger control. spray and pray, no single fire, or burst, just hold down the triger wave the gun back and forth until the mag is empty or they opponent is out. no one take the time, effort to learn to be a good player anymore. its turning into paintball to say the least.

this sport is about HONOUR, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, TRUST. be a man. meet your opponent on a level playing field.

Most people, you would think ,would learn the lesson after a time.
But if not, pain is the great equalizer it always gets them out eventually.

You're getting a PTW, are you not? If you answer yes, you can pretty much take your "cheater gun" argument, and crap on it.

I agree about the hi-cap bullshit. If you're not a support gunner, there's no need.

Hah, if I tag someone, and I know (for a fact) they're cheating, and not calling their hits, my muzzle will light they're balls, or hands like the fires of hell.... Fuckin' slow roast.

A beautiful truth, and a truth that should never be forgotten, That statement is something to be honored and upheld with the utmost respect possible at all times regardless the situation.

If you shoot your opponent and they take the hit and fall and injure themselfves, you stop, and you picked them up and dust them off and make sure they are alright.

Your target is not only your opponent but a fellow airsofter as well, for that day they maybe your prey and your enemy but they are your brothers and sisters in this commnity. Support each other, its not our gear that AEGs that matter when we play, its our hearts and our integrity, and our respect for our fellows players.

blackthorne is all about "atti" dude. lol

That sounds like "attic dude".. :D CREEPY!

Well said, bro.

You're out, playing with good people. Why would you want to be a cheatin', cock-smoker? Doesn't make sense to me.

No I don't, you just need to be less sensitive. :D

Regardless, if I was really angry with you I'd have been banned by now LOL.

Like the time someone called you a dirty reposter? :p

That would be the one. I'm offensive, what can I say. I'm trying to tone it down..

Some people say I'm passionate... :D


Sorry, but beatbaker's post came across as condescending to me. I apologize if I got it wrong.

I agree there is room for both the skirm and milsim side (I have said so in this thread) but I also think that the code of conduct and general approach to fair game play is more than wanting with new players.

In my opinion it goes back to Xbox land trying to transition to reality. Cheats there are a dime a dozen, so it seems they are here too...

FOR THE RECORD, I have missed calling my hits one or twice myself, usually in heavy bush. :D

black, im sick of your attidude :D

lets make up and shoot each other with no shirts on ;)

.... I think that qualifies for a 500fps shot to the nads.

Well don't everyone go and leave before I get my chance, jeez.

This isn't about "cheater guns", which don't exist in my opinion. There is no difference between a player using a drum mag, but only letting of a burst every once in a while and guy changing locaps out like cheap condoms. Or ho about the guy using a stock MP5K vs the a guy with an M700 maybe shooting a little over field limits byt a few fps? Is there a cheater gun there? No, of course not.

You buy the gun, gear and accessories and tailor your tactics accordingly. You opponent will tailor their tactics accordingly as well. In the end, someone is going to win.

I think airsoft is about sportsmanship, comradery and a little fun. If you cease to find any of these present, then quit playing the game. I would.

And Kos, for the record, you don't buy a PTW because it's cool or fashionable. You buy it because you've tried evrything else, spent all kinds of money on guns and still find yourself wanting for more and can't get it with your present set-up. You are at the top of your game and you want the best there is. Nothing else will do. So, you spend the big cake and get the best and you never look back. It doesn't make you a better player, like anything though it can make you a little too reliant on it's performance and technology.

How many guys here bought $1000+ paintbal guns, or bought $1500 handguns when a $200 would suffice for simple plinking? It's not about the buying the "it" gun, but rather the performance only the best can deliver.

Well said mcguyver......well said.

yes i worry about this too, but i have enough faith in myself that i will not become dependant on this fact. before ive had guns which "outgun" my opponents, but i "handicap" myself to account for this. this means, waiting to engage (depending on my opponents) to the point when im either at a 70% chance of loseing the fight, or untill im sure that they can engage back.

with my systema cqb - did as i explained, also due to the fact that i had limited range
systema m16 - as explained
star l85 - use semi 98% of the time as ive got better range than most.

this is the issue at hand though, i take this in mind and alter my play style to accomidate less experianced players, or disadvantaged players, i dont activley look for an advantage and exploit it, my opponents enjoyment means more to me than my own, you can ask many KS3 players how nice the multicam squade was. we sat and bullshit with the opponets, asked how their day was going, how their team was, how they were finding themselve. we often gave them pointers, even if we mercied them we would tell them to continue playing we would move on. others do the opposite by upgradeing their guns to give them the unfair adavantage. alot of fun it is when everyone walks off the field because they dont have a chance.

but your point is very true kos, and its going to take time to "calibrate" my play style with my ptw and my opponents. I depend on my skill as a player than my depending on my gun.

LOL. That was me. To be perfectly honest, I still get a knot in my stomach the more I think about it! Got caught up in a gunfight, shutters went down, tunnel vision kicked in, and auditory exclusion was worn like a toque over my ears. I was so focused on taking you out after Blackthorne went down in front of me, I made the fatal error of crossing an opening from the CQB killhouse; an OPFOR shooter tagged me good in the doorway.

Going to pistol was to me, a degree safer than opening up with my M4. Alot of my rounds were buffered through the bush that laid between us, and I'm sure I observed a couple make their way through and tag your armor carrier. It's clear now why you didn't return fire; you had your M4 in your hands and felt you were too close to shoot. I'd also like to note that you didn't cop out with a "mercy" on me. As I said afterwards, I'd always prefer to know I was taken out properly, rather than someone scream that dirty word to me with as much accuracy as they've demonstrated all day.

Let me say now that the decision not to engage due to distance and weapon selection was both admirable and a fine example of someone I'd like to pull triggers with, or against anytime. It was a mature decision, hands down. For that I am very appreciative of. Had the game continued, I am 100% certain you'd have given me the courtesy of a close range gun-fight, with much clearer results! LOL! Cooler heads prevailed eventually, and I felt a bit silly for our first conversation. I guess Blackthorne isn't alone on that one; the whole lot of us are passionate! :D

If you decide to leave the sport, I wish you all the best. It would be one quality shooter less in a sport where there seems to be so few left. I was in and out of the sport a few times myself. Trust me when I say that things seem to even out at times, and you'll catch the craving again to go out and have the fun you once had. I'd encourage that, HR. Ultimately, you got to be happy. Any worthy friend will respect whatever decision you make. It was good to meet you, and I hope to cross paths with you again in this sport.

As for those who want to go on about kit and such. It can be summed up simply as this; you get out of this sport what you put into it. I've seen the extremes of both. The quintessential SF-dressed shooter with all the toys "camping" on a side of a hill, doing sweet fuck all, and the t-shirt and jeans marauder who hauls ass all day and helps his team win the game. Let's not be overly critical about who's wearing what. Let's start focusing on who's doing what.

AMEN BROTHER!!!

Like mguyver said, just because you have a gun like a ptw, that gives you an advantage, it still dosent make you a better player. For those of us who play against people with things like ptws ect. it just means that because we can not out gun them we must outsmart them. For me it this problem solving that makes airsoft the most fun. I still have yet to find the way to beat the feeling of outsmarting someone with at ptw and being able to take them buy surprise with may Mauri.

You guys definitely misunderstood me.

What I meant was if you take using a tweaked firearm as a form of cheating, then what do you take using a ptw as? If you see better equipment as a form of cheating, then.. I don't know what to say..

My reason for getting into airsoft was to learn small squad tactics in an urban, and forested environment. Aswell as to learn proper firearm handling in a high-risk situation. So obviously I'm not saying the PTW is a "cheater gun", or a "trendsofter's" gun. It's a training weapon, and that's exactly what I, and the team are getting them for.

Bah, I hope that made sense.

As a «new» player and living far from The crowd of player i had to take the trip to attend to bigger event that usual skirmish.

Battel of carantan & ops free beer.

Thoses were the only event that i went to.

Having to drive back home for at least 5 hours, i had time to think about the day and the only thing that came to my mind that it was only a big skirmish with alot of players. And that i coud do that at home without the drive and evreything else. (no offence for the guys that host and prepare thoses events, i still had fun)

Dont be disapointed about guys playing this way, it's, unfortunately part of it.

There are a lot of people that just need to discovered a new way to play, and sooner the better because then they know more than basick skirmish they wont go back on the feild ( what ever feild ) with the same mentality.

People change that's what they do...

Hell Ranger,

Are you still comin out the LZ on the 22nd. It is pretty much a skrim day, with scenrios added.

However asshats not allowed ...... mostly. :P

Well I guess these problems explain why there hasn't been that many Quebec airsoft games recently...

Ummmm...personally, I think that's fairly silly. If I'm reading it correctly.

I used to do the same thing with Star Wars CCG (bear with me here, haha). I had a primo collection with a lot of high powered cards (Think of it like a PTW), none of my friends really did (Think of it like stock Marui Rifles). For a long time I'd make decks either that purposefully had flaws or actually just do some foolish things subtly in game so that they'd 'have a chance'. Two things came from that, first off they finally noticed and were kind of offended and secondly, they never improved. Later on I began just to show no mercy and play with the full extent of my arsenal. Yeah, I trounced them a lot at first, but they began to adapt and get better and sooner rather than later with vastly 'inferior' cards they began to be competitive with me.

I don't think handicapping yourself is doing anyone a service. In fact, I'd be very offended were I your opponent and I realized you were doing things like waiting for me to get close enough to have a 'fighting chance' before engaging. Trust people to learn and get better if you trounce them, if they're unwilling to do that maybe they shouldn't play.

ya that made sense and it sounds like were on the same page, we just dont know it. your into this sport for the right reasons... the same reasons as the most of us. you, me and mcguyver are all into this and getting to the level where as to better ourselves as players and people. the new players that mod their guns with the intent of "pwning" the opposing team are into this for the wrong reason. this isnt counter strike, or halo, or ghost recon or rainbow six, where you have stats and unlock shit with all your headshot and kill points lol. no the problem lies there, where they are not being "educated," “brought into the fold” and understand what it is we do and why we do it.

youve explained your reasons which are noble, my reason? i do this to honour those who do this for real. i dont think i could ever do what they do, but i look up to them and respect them at the utmost level. i know (as well as you) how it feels when your in a heated fire fight, your heart is pounding, your blood pressure is so hight you feel like your ears are going to burst out, your voice cracks, its fucking intense.... and its fake. could you imagine that feeling tenfold because theres real bullets flying, and people really trying to kill you!!? thats amazing that people can do thise for real, i would love to be one of them, but im afraid, and i have a family, so to me; imitation is the highest form of flattery, and hats why i do it.

New people hardly feel this way, or even know why they play. As its been said it’s a new form of paintball and people are getting into it just to shoot people and stroke their own ego. Which is also why cheating is becoming more prevailant along side the fantasy modded/ over upgraded guns.

i realise that too, and have already run into that a few times at our field. it takes some guess work, walk a fine line if you will with babying them and nurturing them.

LEAVE THE SPORT?!!!! How many onther sports are there where you get to gear up get yer gun and run around the bush shooting people you hardly know? Cry about the good ole days. Just get yer AEG and get on the field and start playing. I played with a guy who told me one thing that I remember well. " If he doesn't call it, shoot him again" Thanx Brian. This improved my fun factor 10 fold. Don't let the little stuff get you down. go out and have a good time. But hey... ur choice.

LOL FAG
naw just kidding <3 I +10 love you, too.

Good :) I'm glad we've come to an agreement.

And seriously, if someone laughed after shooting (whilst yelling "HEAD SHOT") a team member, or myself , and drawing blood... heh.. blowtorch castration..

SHIT HE FOUND IT

Lol thread de-railment in progress mirite?

Yeah, back on topic... I'm done.

Hot and sweaty kind? I'm down for that

:D

Kos, Seriously post counts dont mean a damn thing buddy;)

This thread was going so well for a while.
Can a mod get rid of some of the crap on page 5 & 6 please.

Back on topic.

On my way to work this morning I was thinking to myself, "And what about all those times I helped people?". I mean, I have opened my own guns to try and fix other poeples guns w/o charging a thing on so many occasions. Gettign in touch w/ Illusion to get the parts almost overnight to fix guns. This is additional stress that I shouldn't have to deal with, I have a career that brings me enough stress already.

People shoudl understand that if you offer your help you will do your best. On a few occasions this was totally ignored. There is a running joke between Vondnik and I regarding my 733 about how many times I open that gun to yank parts out. This has happened on more than one occasion over the past 3 yrs (I have been confortable fixing guns for abotu that amount of time).

This is another thing I'm done dealing with, I don't even bring tools out to events anymore, I simply bring one or two backups instead.

You know, staying up 'til 2 in the morning to try and fix a gun so the owner can have it the next day. To be told something along the lines of "Well, it's your problem if you waited last minute to fix it..." Well last minute is called me having other things to take care of and maybe the gun I'm working on is a trouble gun.

I know I'm getting a PM after this... But to bad some people I tried to help the best I could are no longer talking to me for no apparent reasons. This is another thing that really got to me. I have no reason to be pissed I guess, I just find it disturbing.

To be honest, I have to say that I'm a little envious of the position OP (and others) find themselves in.

Where I live (and play) we have about 8 players with guns. My community (St. John's, NL) is not that small, 250,000 people, but we still only have a handful of players.

I would say there are 2 of us who are truly interested in MILSIM and we both look forward to the day when we can say "jeez, nobody's interested in MILSIM anymore"....fact is, nobody is to begin with. So what do we do? We try and play as MILSIM as possible. It's not the best, but it's really all we can do. Fact is we enjoy playing airsoft and we enjoying playing MILSIM. So we play airsoft when we can, and MILSIM insofar as it's possible.

I'm not trying to QQ here or try and get you guys to feel sorry for us. I'm just trying to put things into perspective a bit.

Heheh, Viking has "quit" more times than anyone I know and yet I seem him each season on the field in the latest gitch doin' the milsim shuffle. This shit's like herpes, you've can't get rid of it and when it flares up you wake up one morning with $3k missing out of your credit line and a brand new set of gear (guilty).

Great thread - it gives me hope. I've been mourning milsim for a while now. The fact that I have to travel 500+ kms to find a quality game (ie: Rawdon/LZ) is testimony to the fact that there are active and great pockets of people who still know how to do it - and they are quality games worth making the trip for.

I think many vets, which I now finally count myself one, are fatiqued and to some degree have checked out of mentorship. Teams were also a huge mentorship tool and many vets are choosing to work outside of teams, a la 'contractor' style, so instead of developing new talent into milsim within a team environment, new players are not getting the kind of attention they used to. With me to, back in the day if I saw something 'ghey' I was likely to engage on that and speak to the person(s) involved, whereas now, I just walk away, not wanting to appear judgemental or be accused of being a crusty old fart. A lot of vets here have taken it time and time again on the face on issues and have simply said 'fuck this' and are now looking after themselves and letting the new folks figure it out for themselves.

There is a cost in dropping mentorship in this community, particularly as it pertains to milsim and we are seeing that cost now.

Case in point. People should stop trying to 'moderate' 'attitude'. Grow a thicker skin and LISTEN to what he's saying- you might discover a different point of view. I don't recall him directing any vitriol at you so there is no need for that.

I'm glad that the "old" guys are taking interest in the thread.

I met Scarecrow for the first time face-to-face in Rawdon. Very nice guy, I had to walk up to him to introduce myself and shoot the shit for a minute or 2 with him and a nice picture came out of it standing there with a huge grin on our faces.

Little things like that matter as well.

Example, RC took me aside and told me what an ass I looked like in my OD sweater, black pants and stupid black helmet. Wolfpack adopted me and Morb and Clay mentored me on virtually every other aspect of the game and Viking came along and raised the bar yet again - to the point where I am working out 3 times a week and doing 17k ruck marches.... for fun...

Sometimes criticism IS GOOD. It makes you rethink positions that you otherwise would continue with unabated and there are a NUMBER of people in the community that are immune to any kind of advice or correction and who thus will never consider another point of view or develop further into the game. Thats what I am talking about...

and HR, shoot me a copy of that pic or a link! I'm behind the camera so much I rarely get to see myself... Rawdon was a first for me...

EDIT: KEWL! Thanks!

HR I've been playing for 6 years now. and let me tell you as one of the orginizers @ the Foxden in wich I have help build it to what it is as wells as many other people in the comunity. COMUNITY is the main word in this post I have seen people come and people go and people be banned for there stupidity, yes people may not alway adree on a decision people make but, I will fight t'ill I can't fight no more for the Ottawa comunity.
It's funny how people make comments like wow not to many new players, then in the same breath say hope the sport is not dying. Well I will tell you it's like a wave from year to year. and yes you get some asshats that come in in those waves. it's a fact of life. One way we have dealt with asshats is we have a little game called preaditor. and belive me after they run that gauntlet they call there hits.

I think we should start an orginization for the milsim games in other words have a panel of people vets and new ( with experience) to place a tag on a milsim game Ie a backing from the orginization aswell as there marl of aproval on the scenario as a Milsim.

Been there, done that. It fell apart out of lack of participation, buy-in, and cooperation.

There are some simple rules here.

1) If you don't want to play milsim, don't go to a milsim game. We don't want skirmishers there.

2) If you don't want to skirmish, don't go to skirmishes. They don't want you there either.

3) If you decide to go to a skirmish, then skirmish and deal with it. It is what it is.

4) If you decide to go to a milsim game, work your way up to them so you can COMMIT to the entire event and not walk off the field to throw on your pyjamas. Be prepared to live in the field for the length of the operation, and that means being self-supported and carrying everything you might need with you; there's no "going to the safe are to bomb up" at Milsim games; you hit the field and it's GAME TIME until the whistle blows.

Milsim games rely on participation, so if you show up for a 24hr op you're IN THE GAME for the duration. If you can't do that, then don't show up.

5) When a host calls for volunteers, STEP UP and HELP. Good games take a LOT of work to set up and run, and every little bit helps.

6) Milsim is immersion. If you show up in sneakers and a t-shirt you're hurting the experience for the people who invested a pile of money in accurate representations of the units they're portraying. Some of us have not only spent a pile of money on this, but we've worked ourselves physically to the point where we can perform in this stuff. Again, for some, it's about the experience, not the kills. I could care less if I go an entire day without snapping off a round. I was there, that's what counts.

As for the whole "Vets" issue, Scarecrow hit the nail on the head, at least for me. I just don't give a shit anymore. Too many times people ask for advice, and when you give it, they just throw it out the window or find some reason to ignore it. Why fucking ask then?

There are also more than a few of us who are tired of the fucking drivel we see around here. There's an age gap for sure, and age brings maturity; maturity brings concentration, and concentration is required for Milsim. So maybe the slow demise of milsim is more a result of so many fucking children in the sport now, and the old-timers gradually hanging it up as real life gets in the way.

Good points Mad, I fully agree with you.

Very well put and thanks for your input.

Sad to see that not many comments have been made by Quebec players thus far.

Migth be the language barrier again or are they simply ignoring this thread.

It has been a good read so far and lots of good/similar points have been made.

Keep 'em coming.

This thread might be useful afterall... Lots of hits, so I hope people are reading the comments being made and are learning a few things here and there.

HEy... you forget my post:)

Also, i think that the old "vets" are idiots and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, ....you know with all these years playing and organizing...what understanding coudl they possibly have???????.... VIVA LA NEW GENERATION!!! (not!)

Give this man some Valtrex because he hit the nail on the head! A few years back I quit because I got fed up with certain playing styles, personalities, the perception of rampant cheating and running ASC was getting to be too damn much. Long story short, I never stopped thinking about airsoft when I'd given it up and now I'm back in and enjoying every moment of it.

Like Viking said, you get out of it what you put in it and you can't make it any simpler than that. HR, if you're thinking of quiting maybe you should but only on a temporary basis. Stow your shit away (don't sell it) in the closet, forget about airsoft for a while then come back when you're hungry for it and with a fresh perspective. You'll start enjoying things again, I guarantee!

Yes Jon, you are getting old...er.

"not many comments have been made by Quebec players"

This implies that some have been made, but not many!

lol

Lets bring back Op Capital Thunder again. Never made it out to it before, but hey, we need a good milsim game in the Ottawa/MTL area.

HellRanger, if you quit, who am I gonna carry on the "shooting frogs" inside joke between us with?!?

There are a lot of good arguments in this thread so far and notice that most of them are IN FAVOR OF YOU NOT QUITTING! Don't do something so permanent as giving up on a sport you know you love and have invested so much in. Raven's and Madmorbius’ points I think are ideal: select the games you want to attend and avoid those people that are annoying. As a well recognized and respected “vet” you most probably get invited to more than enough private events to fill a season adequately so that you can usually skip on moron-filled games. Plus, there will always be less-than-ideal people that need to start somewhere, I'm sure I wasn't that great in my first year.

I noticed that I have been at it for a while and I'm sure that I had to deal with stupid people every season, yet I just remember the cool ones I met and the good moments in the games. Hence "the good old days" were probably pretty much the way things are now. There have been up-years and down-years too, years with a lot of players and years with a lot less, same for games and all. Maybe this is just one of those population volume up years.

On the whole, airsoft has always been THE sport for me, I have never really been disappointed, and remain unable to find anything else like it. I went through some mood changes about it too. Such as being worried? Yes. Annoyed? At times. Pissed? A couple of times. But never anything that would lead me to leave altogether. Actually, I find that the airsofting community is filled with people that are nicer than average and definitely more helpful. Eventhough we are all gun-totting, BDU-dressed weirdos.

Don't quit man, you are an amazingly respected and recognized member of a good community, I think your thread proves that, and veterans have a responsibility to help guide the remainder of the community. Whether actively or passively, that is a choice people can make and change as the mood dictates.

Hellranger you better not quit, I'll miss your puppy dog eyes when your "low" and I have to force feed you an orange to bring you back up. Alot of good points being made here and glad to read some of the comments from people that are sharing the same thoughts as myself.

Steven, only you can decide on how much you want to stay in the game. It's not about "vets", which I hate the term, against new players. Milsim against skirmishes or who has the better gear. It's about learning and working with someone you don't know that will make you a better person.

When people talk about leaving the game because it's not what they had hoped, it sadens me to hear that they are throwing in the towel because life itself is not a bed of roses. If you tell me that, you're leaving because you've outgrown your interest in the game, then, I wish you all the happiness in your next endeavor.

The age gap has played a major role on how games are run for what I'm seeing. Hell, I can say that when I first started playing, I was all gung-ho to get my first kill and might have burst out screaming "I got one, I got one!" when I did have a hit on another player. That was when I was 35 years old. I can imagine that a 18-20 year old would do the same thing with more energy. I've since relaxed my emotions on the field and I can't blame the newer players from showing their's.

I want to play and I can switch from milsim to skirmish like turning on a light. If we play a milsim and the other team treat the game like a skirmish and do things that are against the game rules, well, I'm sure our boys in the sandbox are experiencing the same thing and I just go with what there is. It can make it more challenging for oneself to adapt to the unknown. I do learn from playing with new players as they give an unpredictatable influence to the game play.

I know the new players want to learn and it's all about how you pass that info to them. You treat them like you would treat an experience player, with respect. I can say that by doing this, all it has brought me is a lot of embarassment because I feel bad when I go to a field and players would come up to me and say "Hi Bruce" and I would not know who they were. Please excuse me if anyone reading this has done this to me. I'm just Old! lol

Take a break from the game if you want but it will be sad for all of us if you leave for the wrong reasons. The good guys out-number the bad guys by a million times.

your pal,
Pius

Hey HR.

Don't quit for them, instead find the players you love to play with and stick with them..

The quebec Community has a very large problem in term of hostility and lack of respect. Make you own group where you will be please to play and know that the level of game your are looking at will be acceptable.

I drop the towel this years and you know what : I feel much better.

Sometimes you have to take a step back and think about it.

I hope you will find back the flame that airsoft was to you.

Good luck

Jean-Francois.

JF

Raven,

I kinda agree with you on this part. Even it I personally have rarely seen blatant cheating occur in front of my eyes.

The only negative thing about the type of attitude / response to "bulletproofness" it tends to get personal or escalate the matter.

Walking up to the player and kindly asking them if the felt the hit sort of diffuses the situation.

Any how... I'm still not done reading this thread.

@Hellranger - I just hope that the event that transpired after I hit you in the bean with my AEP last weekend did not set of a chain of event or made you saturated...

Like I have posted in the past. I do to miss the type of events that brougt me into this seen as for mentioned by Hell Ranger PQAC.

I still proudly wear my PQAC arm patch.

Just to add, for those that don't call hits, or cheat, with the community how it is (ASC wise atleast) and since it's for the most part a tight niche, after a while their rep would go down the tubes based on word of mouth too. At this point I'd hope, or think, most would want to be recognized as reputable people, that and there's no point not calling your hits, even if there isnt a respawn in a game, usually you get ample times to go back in

I missed that whole thing :p Sorry mate.

Yeah, people who upgrade their guns to unrealistic performance (1,100rpm @ 400fps) so they can "pwn" is stupid.

I dont want to start anything but I've given up on going to the usual QC games for the reason you mentioned in your first post. I'm playing airsoft, if I wanted to rank kills I'd join the kids and play paintball.

Everywhere you go there is a % of assholes, the more people you have the higher that % means. That said, the sport is growing and not much can be done to reduce that %.

It sucks but I'm personally very pro-private games, the quality is not even comparable.

HellRanger, don't give up bud! There's plenty of game coming in the future that will be worth going, that's for sure.

All good points but I think the cheating topic belongs in a separate thread. Its age old and not likely to ever be solved, except with a hicap and a steady steam of bbs until the offender suddenly feels it. I've purposely hosed someone who is bulletproof just to drive a point home. It usually works and if they come up and complain to me afterwards, its the perfect opportunity to discuss their bulletproof-like nature and they never win that argument.

I received a few more PMs and some IM messages as well from people that didn't wanna post in this thread or even on ASC for that matter.

One of them I saw get pissed on SO many occasions, but he never gave up.

What I think I will do them is be a little more picky in terms of events I attend. It's sad because up until failry recently I was ready to attend just about every event out there. All that remained was to drive to attend an event with the TO folks. We owe them a few, for I have seen them drive to our events on numerous occasions.

Sierra post was a carbon copy of the eMail he sent me at the office yesterday. And I owe him for taking the time to introduce me to the right people. I didn't discover AS, I saw Sierra looking at geared up kids with guns and I started asking questions. And it evolved from there. Poncho made certain my first riffle go to me from TO, he packed it with him and I picked it up at my first event.

So many people I have lots of respect for were here posting their opinions and support. So people also PM'd me with comments regarding me flipping on people sometimes, well that's the way I am. But if we allow people to act like fucking idiots and do jack shit about, who should we blame? We are to blame, for not doing our part. The "new generation" will not come and see us for guidance 'cause they know better, so we have to step in and put them back on the right track. In the future I will try not approach issues alone, I will discuss it with other trustworthy people around me and WE will approach the issue together. That way I will not the the type of comments like "You always complain..." and shit like that.


So thanks for everyone who showed supportand I hope it got a few of the "old fool dudes" (Vietnam war reference for "old timers") thinking. If some of the new gen. folks read some of this I hope you learned something from it.

This thread was not ment to discuss hits and such, but simply to voice my opinions and let poeple know why I was REALLY thinking about giving up.

But a good discussion came out of it, so it was not a waist of anybody's time. This is easy to see simply by the amount of time some people have taken to put their personal toughts down in a written format.

Thanks to all the friends I didn't realize I had, I will not take your recommendations lightly, but I will try to make some adjustments on my end. One thing I will not change, I will not and can not hold myself back from telling others when I think they are wrong. I also hope the old timers will not stop either.


Thanks again and god speed.

Being 23 and consider myself a "vet" considering the ammount of time I have in the Ottawa Community, I am much like bruce. I enjoy both aspects of airsoft. Milsim is lots of fun, playing like your in real combat. Then skirmish side of it aswell. But like I said before, in the end its all about having fun.

The age gap is something that I have noticed. The majority of new players are very young. What we need is "old" guys like you HR to mentor these new guys.

Sadly you can not get rid of the cheating assholes out there, but like anything else in life, the good comes with the bad.

I Started when I was 18, I remember my first kill. If it wasn't for players like Rexter and TC who helped me along my way, I would have become a very different player.

I can not honestly count the number of times I have thought about quiting, and the times I actually did quit. Every time, I have come back. Like everyone has been saying, dont quit, take a break, but for the love of god, do not sell your stuff. The last thing this community needs is to loose another good player.

This month would have been counted as my 13th year playing airsoft had I not a few months ago given my resignation from airsoft to the Edmonton club and basically retired from it.
A lot of the stuff posted above is why. The airsoft scene in Edmonton is well beyond its peak of a few years ago when West-Can airsoft was still running.
There is no mislim scene in Edmonton anymore, and as already stated 90% of the new people just want a glorified version of a paintball game, and its fricking sad. People want to get all this gear, and these cool rifles, then they can't run a hundred meters wearing it all. With the people that do show up to a milsim when they actually get enough people to run it, half the people that show up can't even drive the body hard enough to go half the day before shutting it down.
The majority of people seem to be satisfied with "you half go that way, and you half go that way, we will meet up in the middle and shoot it out".

My experience has told me that the "fun" of just having skirmishes only lasts so long. I got WELL over that crap a decade ago. Trying to show newer people the light, I may as well just be banging my head against the wall.
So honestly I gave up trying, I am tired of it. The way these guys are going, without trying to evolve they are going to just be the people that play airsoft for two years then get bored of it and move on. Not the people like some of the vets, Raven, Poncho, and others that I have met over the years that do play for over a decade.

That, and there is so much devision now in Edmonton, and no one is putting in any effort to try to work together, so there is like 4 - 5 or something small groups of like 6 or 7 people that just like to do their own thing, and no one is contacting anyone else, or trying to work on bigger games. And when they do, its "come out to our day of skirmishes!".

Like I said, I am done wasting my time. I kept my AK, a few of my favorite bits of gear and clothing just incase something comes up that I want to attend. Most likely it would probably be held in Red Deer, Calgary, or Vancouver or something because I just can't see any good big games like the WCan games coming out of Edmonton until people decide to start working together again.

Want some problems to be aired?

Newbies ignoring the laws surrounding this game, or trying to find loopholes. Field owners trying to find loopholes to warrant getting a few more bucks. Internal politics. False accusations. Not being 'worthy' if your real life prevents you from gaming. Really retarded canadian laws. Bulletproof players (some are vets). Favoritism.

Until those things are fixed, there will be problems.

You can't fix such things as they are attributes of practically every recreational club out there.

None of the issues voiced in this thread are peculiar to "Airsoft"
They are common to all human social clubs... and that is what Airsoft is.. a group of likeminded ( mostly) enthusisats participating in an activitly for recreation and enjoyment.

in every club you find the vets bemoaning the noobs... and the noobs railing against the establishment... eventualy the Noobs become vets... and start bemoaning the new noobs.. while the "real" vets roll their eyes...

And the "real" vets... start saying things like" it just ain't like it used to be" and start leaving the activity.... while the noobs shout "good riddance" for a while until they realize what they lost... Then they embark on the process of becoming the new "real"vets.....

To stay engaged you have to pretty much carve your own niche... and invite like minded people along for the ride... We see this quite a bit in the Ontario community... where there is a large community and quite a number of different factions...

From paintballers come airsoft skirmishers... to "softcore" Milsim to Fantasy scenario affectionados.. through to "hardcore" milsim operators.. Fact is that none of these are really compatable with one another.. and there will always be dissatisfaction when different types come into proximity..

For me ... it puts a bad taste in my mouth when a game is touted as "milsim" and devolves to hosefest skirmishing.. when the wrong players show up at the wrong games.

As long as the right players come out to the right games everyone gets what they expect.

One of the issues is Hosts of games try to appeal to to broad a cross section of the community when setting up games. There is real reluctace to put in place limitations that will cause some players to avoid particular games...

The Fact is if a "realcap ammo load" and no Highcaps rule turns you off... then its is very likely that the game is not the kind you should be at anyway.

If We as Hosts... do a better job of catering to the niche that we prefer then there would be much less dissatisfaction with the outcome of the experience for the participants...

It is in my opinion the desire of Hosts to have "the largest game" with the "most players" that drive the activity deep into the realm of the lowest common denominator which is I'm sorry to say... the highcap toting "kid" in sloppy clothes who just graduated off the speedball field. By trying to appeal to a wide audience... we end up turning off the exact audience we exist for.