Half a stroke
 

Hi guys,,,,,,,,,,I have a small problem with my TM M16A2,I bought it
from koing and it worked great.The problem is,now when you pull the
trigger,it only cycles half way and won't finnish on semi or auto,and the
fuse also blows.I have looked through the mech box and operated it
manually and it works.Could this be the motor,it was new so I understand.
I tried the motor hooked up but out of the grip and it runs fine.

dead battery?

How can a dead batt. toast a fuse then??

Screwed up mechbox? Spring too strong? Mechbox not assembled properly? Motor not set properly? Fuse too weak? Battery too strong for the setup?

All guesswork unless we know exactly what is in that gun.

It is all systema up grade parts,I think the motor is a ec1000 torgue II,
and a 100 spring,fuse is stock 1.5a.Mech box still only went half way
when I by passed the fuse.The list of parts Koing had listed in the
classified section is gone and I don't have the gun and parts here.

OK..it worked then topped working. You inspected the box and it operates from a mechanical perspective.

I am betting electrical. A battery than can run a motor with no load won't necessarily drive that same motor under load.

I would suggest trying it with another battery before doing anything else. Let us know what happens.

Beyond that, you may have a short somewhere along the line that is blowing fuses.

That is why I thought it might be the motor,just wondering if
someone else had a similair problem.

Make sure your fuse is rated for at least 15amps.

You could be right and I was incorrect that the fuse was 1.5 and is
in fact a 15amp.It is the stock fuse according to the book.But I had
by-passed the fuse and still the same problem.I am not good with
electircal things.

I'm betting a tight shim job.

Are the shims the little washers on the gear spindles against the frame?

yes

If it was tight the gears wouldnt move at all, thats what i think. I think his spring is slipping off the spring guide and not allowing the piston to come pully back jammnig the sector gear. thats why is stopping half way in the cycle.

Honestly, and no offence, sometimes your best bet is to find a local expert/doctor and have them look at it.

Uhh... yes. It would still move, given the shims weren't so tight that it caused the gears to seize with zero resistance on it.

If there was 50% resistance, all it needs is the resistance from the spring to cause a full seizure, unless the motor had an extreme level of torque to power it through.

I think the possibility of a spring slipping off a spring guide is pretty much impossible. I can't see how it is physically possible at all. Perhaps you could shine some more light on the subject?

+1 on that one as well, I would like to know how this would be possible. :confused:

There are some springs with rounded bottoms instead of flat ones. (Stock CA springs for example). I have seen springs from PDI and KA that have rounded ends. If the spring guide is not of good quality(eg. plastic ones with a washer), the pressure of the piston being pulled back can actually cause the springs end to slip off the area with the ball bearings on the guide (dont know how this happens, but its possible from pressure). When this happens the piston cannot be fully pulled back and thus the sector gear cannot complete its cycle becuase the pistons last tooth or the teeth near it are holding the sector gear from moving.

The way i fixed it was I just put a spring with a flat end in the gun and it started to work without any jams.

I hope that helps. Weird things hapeen to AEG's like the back of a gearbox blowing off or a spring guide cracking, etc.

And illusion your right about the shim job. I forgot even at 50% or 99% resistance they can still move:P I just had times where 1x0.15shim actually made the gears not move at all.

and when are those phoenix gears going to be in stock at WGC, I wanna purchase a set just to see how they perform.

Okay, that makes sense. I thought you meant the spring slipped off the entire spring guide.

As for the Phoenix gears, I'll be butching a gearbox that has phoenix gears in it. I'll sell them for a pretty cheap price because one of the teeth on the spur gear magically disappeared. :P What sucks is that I've hardly ever used those gears and I've never heard it jam.

I wil losen the screws on the gear box and see what happens.
I have the TM parts still,and will use the softer spring.

lets do business when they are ready illusion:P

Well guys,I loosened the screws and tried to fire it,same thing.
The wiring got warm as bye passed the fuse.Do you think the
motor is messed up and drawing to much current but lacking
power operate under load.I am not up on electrical things.
I was wondering should I replace the motor ,or is there some-
thing else should check first?.

Anyone know where I can find a hi-torque motor for my tm?.
I went through the list of retailers above using their search
and found nothing on motors.:(

sytema makes one, try airsoftparts.ca

have you tried turning the gears just byitself without the spirng and guts..or tested the motor byitself to see if it turns or notice any weird sounds?

I'll try that,what I had done was loosen the screws and got the same thing.
I helped the tube to the rear to fire then felt the wires and very hot.

Well I put a lighter spring in,I still get the same resualts.
Everything moves smoothly without the spring.I am going
to see if I can get over to schwags and learn more about
this aeg

The wires get really hot under normal conditions too.

Yes,I kept blowing fuses,so I held the two brass clips together and
it got hot quickly,I think the motor may have a short and can't
handle a load.But I am only guessing now..

Well good news,I found the problem with my gun,ME. When I
put the two mech box halfs together,I failed to notice that the
plastic tube with the gear teeth on it sliped out of the groove
for it.How it did this before I took it apart to fix it is still a unknown.
I must have stared at it to hard the first time to see it.

I have a new question.If the gun fires nice without rounds,then sounds semi
rough with rounds and not fire the rounds all the time,would this mean something didn't get hooked up right?.I did a motor height check,that seems
good.The gun works great as long as there are no rounds in it.

check your tappet plate and nozzle.

I was looking in mech box and couldn't find tappet,what does it look like?.

it looks like this
http://www.wgcshop.com/WGC_Shop/images/sys_a13.jpg

Thanks. I had that out and was looking for cracks on it,none.
The spring pushes it forward quite well and it moves freely.
The noise i was hearing was the partial gear stripping the
plastic tube attached to the piston.I am not sure if it is a original
TM part,I had a spare and in stalled it,I thought I would temp fate
and put the sp110 guarder spring back in.I put the pistol grip and
motor on the mech box and everything went fine.I placed the V2
in the body and it still work great,now I put a empty mag in still works,
I put rounds in and it cycles put nothing come out,after three cycles
with the rounds in the noise came back and now the piston assembly
is at the rear as the moter will not finish the cycle.This will be the 8th
time I have taken this apart and I still can't fathom what the hell is wrong.

Well the good news is that I am getting good at taking this apart
and reassembling it.Here is something ,it works normal running it with
the mechbox and motor,then I place it in the upper bodyusing the
rear lock pin secure it for my next test.Next I hold the loaded mag
in position and you hear the round load into the chamber,on semi I
pull the trigger and it sounds good put no rounds come out,I pull
the trigger again and you can hear a grind noise,I take the box out
and the tappet and nozzle are compressed to the rear but the piston
is ahead.Now I have checked the shims and the movement of all parts.
PLEASE HELP LOL , what causes this to get messed up?.

Don't know if this will help you or not, but I found this video extremely helpful when it came to disassembling and reassembling my TM M4A1's mechbox...

http://www.mechbox.com/site/mechbox-...ade-video.html

A big THANKS to you guys for your help,I did watch the vid on mechbox,very helpful.Now to tell you what the real problem was,the hopup was not letting
the BB's through,I went to clear the barrel from the breach and could not push
the BB through.I took the hopup off and this little tiny tiny rubber tube fell out,
I tried things back together and it worked.I reset the timing on the gears upgraded the spring back to the sp110,reassembled,and it worked.Near as I
can tell is that the BB was creating a back pressure causing the piston to float
that when the gear came around again to cycle, the piston was in the wrong position and would grind due to off timing.Boy did I learn alot this weekend,
we can call this case closed.:cool:

I thought I would put one last thing up.I tried this popcan test I have
read about here,at two inchs it goes through both sides,on the bottem
it makes a hole but can't finish the trip inside.I used a .2g BB sp110
spring and a alunimum coke can.Would this translate to about 380-400fps?

that should be about right.

as for your hopup sleeve, i was just about to say something about that, but its good that you figured it out on your own.
i had the same issue with my prowin 8mm mechbox. i stripped 2 pistons befor i figured out that the hop sleeve was out of spec, and not letting the BBs get pushed into the hop by the tappetplate.

and easy test for this - remove the barrel and hold it with the hop sleeve pointing up, place a BB on the oppening to the hopup, then push it through.
the oppening should be just narrow enough to lighty hold the BB from falling though and it should drop in with a light push of a finger.

Well, DT, it's nice that you're learning. I know I learned a lot about my gun and mechbox over the past week. I've disassembled and reassembled my mechbox about 10 times now following the video I posted. I don't know for sure if the gun will fire once reassembled, because I have't received my replacement parts yet, but I think I should do ok.

It's nice to have such great support from experienced members here to guide us when we get into touble with our guns.

sorry for the Thread jack but i have a gearing issue i bought a Guarder 120 tuneup kit and have tried the gears (they are original type steel gears) but everytime i install them they lock up with the spring in the fully compressed position tried them in 2 seperate guns and the same thing happens pulls the spring all the way back and jams.Is it possible the gears are warped or mislabled as something else as soon as i put the other gears back in it works great have even tried them without any shims at all ending with the same result please any idea's would be appreciated oh yeah and its not the battery because ive tried 4 different batts

when you pull the trigger, does the gears stop suddenly or do they seem to whine down and stop?

it could be that the gears were miss labeled, and you got a highspeed gear set, when you need to be using at least a torque up set.

they stop suddenly and when i take the mechbox apart there doesnt seem to be enuff room for it to come back any further but yet there is still 1 tooth in the piston to go through

make sure that the piston head is seated properly, and that the barings/bushing on both the inside of the piston and the back on the spring guide are seated properly.
if not, the spring may reach full compression befor the piston comes off the sector gear.
that is the only thing i can think of that would cause your piston from fully moving back.
if you have installed an extra bushing behind the piston head, it would cause this to happen.

the thing is ..is as soon as i change the gears back to the originals it works flawlessly attempted those gears at least 10 times now and they dont seem to wanna work im gonna go with mislabled and be done with them.I would try to sell em but not knowing what they are for sure i wouldnt want to mislead anybody oh well

have you tried swapping out the spring for a lighter one?
or even running the gears without the piston?