Lots of PTWs at A&A
 

Like the title says. He has 13 examples in 7 variants including the M733, as well as batteries, mags and cylinder kits. Looks like he got them in today.

LOL, its systema day for everyone!

Holy shit that's $21,375.59 worth of Systema guns! (I added!)

I think it's more like $30K+ with the accessories and such. And there is no gun really less than $2k x 13 = $26k, but it's actually much higher than that.

Uh, 2.5-3.5 THOUSAND $....I know these things are pricey but....is a good barrel, slightly more realistic specs, auto empty indicator etc. really worth at least 3 massively upgraded CA's or ISC's?

Some a' you bastards must be uber fucking loaded....

No, it's more like the cost of about 1.5 other guns upgraded to as much as they can be and still not be at that performance or operational level. You trashed on Marui guns for their lack of realism. The PTW is to Classic Army what Classic Army is to Crosman. And that's being kind.

I know. I've pretty much owned them all.

I almost want to cry seeing how much it costs here. The M4 SCK + a 12v batt + a M130 cylinder was ~1000 CDN bought in HK. But its unavoidable, unless you have the guts to ship one back ;)

Now for 2g I probably would have never bought one here. It's nice, real nice but at least to me, certainly not worth the price tag in Canada. But, if you're into upgrading, and plan to buy a TM and throw 1 grand in it, then just get a PTW. You save yourself lots of headaches.

PTW... Go to school... PTW... Go to school...

That was for a Gen 3 SCK or a "B" or "C" grade MAX with flaws likely. The MAX SCK is about $400 U.S. more than that. I would not buy a Gen 3 personally, as the MAX guns are in a different performance league.

i've yet to shoot an max one yet, i plan to get a max gearbox when (if ever) my gen 3 one craps out on me. if theres one thing i like..no love.. about the ptw its the trigger time. everyone asked me if i was on full auto but nopeeeeee just zero trigger lag :>

I think the performance differences have way more to do with the hop-up roller and 6.04mm barrel on the MAX that isn't in the Gen 3.

And yeah, I can get 5 rounds/second in semi. Basically as fast as I can feather the trigger.

Oopsies I just added one of each kind. And i was talking about JUST guns.

there is always next year for school.

I really had a hard time getting my head around dumping that kind of money but I did anyways. like mac says, I'ts the cost of a few regular AEG's but once you have one, you'd have a hard time going back. Sooo nice.

BOOM ORDER SENT!!!!!! MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Really? Hah! You'll own one before me.

Except I'm paying alot less than you are.

You son of a bitch you're kidding right

All PTW's manufactured after August 2006 have 6.04mm tightbores; Max's AND Generation 3's.

You know the right choice, school first, fun later.

I guess it depends when the Gen 3 was bought. There are a few in Canada that came in before this date. And the ones that came via Redwolf, who knows how old they actually are.

I'm working like a damn dog to afford one. But I see it as a good investment. Much better than investing in a "toy marui" (as mcguyver stated in another thread).

Let's just hope they're still around by late october :(

...

Daddy?

Come to think of it, it would explain a lot.

OHSHI- Does that make Aqua my mom?

Conceived on the battlefield.

No not true. I would never spend that much as i don't believe in Systema's. I have yet to be proven wrong, even after handling one in NY. Don't get me wrong, they are AWESOME, but to me, they don't explain the high price tag.

Maybe those new one's are different, but i'm not gonna put $2000 on the line to see.

Enjoy your PTW's everyone :p

A Ferrari is just another car to someone who needs wheels to get to work. And an overpriced car at that.

But when you want performance, the old Civic is no match for the Ferrari and if you want the performance, you have no choice but to buy the Ferrari.

But at $2k+ per gun who in their right mind wouldn't sell 3 or 4 stock Maruis for a PTW? Unless you don't like flexibility, performance, a rock solid gun? I sold 17 other guns to get the ones I have and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I guess there must be guys out there like that, but I ain't one of them!!

I'v driven a Ferrari, heck my Father owned one for a certain number of years (until some fucker stole it...). I see and understand what you mean. I love sport cars, and to me i wouldn't mind dishing out the money for one. Heck i'v spent so much money on my Stang i could have bought another car!

But to me, when i tried the Systema i didn't feel it was worth the money. Even less the inflated Canadian price. Sorry :)

Maybe the new one's are different (never seen or used one) but i wouldn't buy any of the old one's.

Edit: Now if i had the money laying around and their's nothing else to buy, i WOULD buy one of the new one's. But if theirs a decision (buy x thing before the systema etc etc) the other things would be bought first.

Take a "toy Marui" G36/AK and upgrade it with the right parts and it'll kick the shit out of the PTW MAX in accuracy. We know because we've tested them.

The PTW is a great gun but it still can be improved where accuracy is concern. That's why they are several ways where PTW owners have developed their own mods to use AEG inner barrels/packing to get the same accuracy like their tuned AEGs.

Do you really need to get a PTW? If you're a player that shoots moderately and knows how to work on your guns, IMO, no. If you have the cash to spring for it, go for it. The bells that come with the PTW are pretty shiny.

Well, Bruce, you can get an AEG to be more accurate than a PTW. You can get an AEG to be more powerful than a PTW. You can get an AEG to do either of those things for alot less than the cost of a PTW.

But you can't get an AEG to do both of those things, be as flexible and durable as PTW. Not for any kind of money. That's the secret to it's success.

Bah, one of these days there'll be a Chinese clone selling for $399 anyways, so then it'll be PTWs for the masses.

I'm in for accuracy... <3 my SR-25 :P

The only reason why I have a PTW Max is so that I can play in the winter with an AR and not worry about cracking the mechbox. I just love ARs. I have 7 of them but they all have a weak mechbox design. Haven't tried the Prowin CnC mechboxes. I can live with a lesser accuracy to gain a superior mechbox design in the PTWs.

I'm still happy that I purchased a PTW. Can't say that about my other team-mate that purchase one also.

I wouldn't. I hate Armalites. Well not so much hate as.....wouldn't want one. So I guess pretty much hate.

It's true that reliability is nice. To know that even tho the gun was stored 2 month, you take it out and it's going to shoot = nice. But how reliable is it? Do PTW break? What about the dreaded 'oops i feel on my gun and it broke'... does that happen to PTW's or is the metal of much better quality?

PTW owners have broken their receivers. Don't know how but I wouldn't be surprise if it was done by banging it too hard when you try to pop the receivers. Some players use real AR uppers in their PTWs.

You have to watch out for the O-rings in the AEGs if you don't play with them for a long time. Other than that, some of my guns don't see action for a long time but it'll still perform if you take care of them.

Every gun can break. They are mechanical devices and as long as there is friction and electrical resistance, things of all types will break. That's a certainty. But when guys have reported 200,000+ rounds at 400 fps with only minimal maintenance, well that's a different story. There is no engineered AEG out there with that kind of durability. One guy here or there may get lucky with alot of rounds through a gun, but as a general rule, those levels of durability aren't seen in any other guns.

That being said, the SCKs are a whole different story. Guys buy them because they want custom trades, want to save a couple of bucks or want the challenge of self-assembly. Well, all manner of problems happen. It became so bad in places like Europe and the U.S., that retailers refused to sell the kits as they had so much trouble with assembly issues. It has become better now that they provide major component pre-assembly in the kits, but there still is risk, especially for the first-time builder.

Systema does not use a CNC'd 7071 aluminum body like what's found on the real gun. That would violate Japanese law and likely we would have an issue with that as well, considering the uppers are quite close in specs and size. The lower is a bit different to accomodate the motor mount as well. Now, considering the body is a cast alloy, it's as susceptable to breakage as another cast alloy body. But you can buy a real upper and do some small mods to make it fit a PTW.

The gearbox shell is CNC'd steel. The cylinder is made from extruded and machined aluminum. All the gear teeth are hardened steel (MAX only). The only maintenance is cleaning the barrel and hop-up (like any other gun) and replacing the nozzle o-ring and piston head o-ring periodically. This take all of about 10 minutes per cylinder with no gearbox disassembly required.

I don't know what I find more sickening, the markup that A&A puts on this kind of stuff or the fact that some of you willingly pay it.

Not this cat. I got likely one of the first MAX guns in Canada, and I paid ALOT less. More in the area of a CA 249 with a couple of box mags, give or take.

Now, well, if you wants, you pays!!

*EDIT* Retracted.

What about importation fees/brokerage/BFL fees etc? Do you think that A&A just gets them in for the same price as the US?
There's that, plus a markup any business will put on a product.

If I had to pay something like A&A full retail plus taxes, I would not have gotten one.

Check the prices out for the PTW mags.

1 mag for $99.95
Box of 6 mags for $599.95

lol

Other mags don't fit in PTW?

PTW ONLY uses systema PTW mags

haha


i defenitly wouldnt own one if i had to pay aa full prices. but if there is anyone to get one from i'd suggest mark, i had a good experience with him.
best thing ive ever bought.

Honestly, how much of a pain in the ass would it be to get the challenge kit and save $500? In your eyes, is it worth the 500 bones to get a pre-assembled one to avoid the DIY assembly of the product?

I am on the block for a PTW shortly, I had put $1900 into my TM AUG (including purchase) and i thought it was awesome until the PTWs started popping up all over Alberta. My AUG shoots 420 FPS with well done upgrades and a 655mm barrel and I get out ranged by the guys using PTWs. It made the decision for me easy. plus I will figure I will never need to buy another outdoor gun again unless I want something different.

And just wait by this time next season a third of the PTW owners will getting out of the sport and floggin their PTWs... at least I hope they will

Don't doubt it.

LOL... http://aasurplus.ca/airsoft/product_...roducts_id=557

That is the most retarded inflation I've ever seen. C'mon. They're only listed as 1,550 in the states..

It was many years ago and Aqua and I were young and in that stage of our lives where everything just felt right.

We'll boost your allowance by an extra 50 a week if you pick up a few extra chores and even pay you $8000 if you paint the house. You'll have it in no time!

Why do I suddenly have a strange taste in my mouth.

Ronan critically shoots you for 69 damage.

/Sleep.

where else can someone go about getting a ptw? iv looked around and haven't found any better prices in canada?

Congrats. Another Extremely homo post. Better quit while you're ahead. If you were to break my record, I'd be hurt.

The only way you can get a lower price, is if you have connections. Harsh reality.

*TokyoSevens Ciras vest with +1 sexy absorbs the brunt of the damage*
*Drinks red potion +5hp*
*Drinks red potion +5hp*

That was suppose to be 800 not 8000! Who pays 8000 to have their house painted! Unless their house is the massive and I mean crazy massive, and it takes a priming and two coats.

the kit only takes 2 hours if you know how an armalite goes together.
its so worth the savings.

meh ptw are not worth it.

hahahahahahahaha

What I know for certain
 

is that the proliferation of PTWs is starting a "arms race"

There is nothing but a very upgraded weapon that can compete with the distance and accuracy of these things...
The stock TM as a "reasonable gaming gun" has seen its day?

It is a good thing that they are expensive and relatively rare ( though I know 3 people who have one now in a circle of about 60 players, and I expect that will double in the next month)

Frankly, I am having difficulty justifying the expense... but really I have spent enough on guns now that I could have 3 of the things...and lets not even talk about gear.

We now sneer at the Clearsoft users... "thats not real airsoft" .. thats crapsoft.... I wonder has systema raised the bar as to what is "crapsoft"

has the much vaunted supremacy of TM.. that has seen constant erosion over the past 2 years finaly heard its death knell?

IS Systema.. the "new standard" that other makers will aspire to?

I think its already so...

So for those who do not invest.. expect to be outclassed...

I can't wait until the quietly rumored SYSTEMA MP5 is a reality...

HI

I haven't heard that but i think it seems a little over kill, besides all the "reasons" players give to owning a PTW the major reason is to outrange other players in my books.
If two players are well within TM range one owns a stock TM and the other a PTW who will win? I am not going to bet on the PTW owner just because they own a PTW.
With this reasoning I would think it pointless to fork out the cash for a MP5 when it's primary purpose is CQB. You won't be able to play at the 400+FPS that PTW owners shoot due to being indoor with limits, so you get a $2500 MP5 that is all metal just to be shot by my MP7 that shoots 180FPS.

I only want a PTW because after a bundle of $$$ dropped into my AUG to get more range I was easily outranged by Pirate's PTW, which is lighter and smaller then my AUG and now only $600.00 more.

I can guarantee you he priced it like that to discourage buyers. That way, he can keep it for himself.

Just ordered my M4 Challange kit!!!!

ps. after trying a few of my teammates PTW's and seeing how they feel, work, and sound, I have no problems dishing $2700 (including mags, batteries, and blue cylinder) for it

For me....
 

The Range thing.. is not the issue...

the fact that when taken to hand it feels like it should is what drives me... every AEG I have taken to hand till now ( except for my STAR L85s and the VFC AK ) has felt "toyish" the weight, balance and handleing.. just not right...

This is not the case with the PTW.. taken to hand... it "feels" right.. handles properly .... balances properly... it is not just a replica.. it is an effective simulator for the weapon it replicates...

For me... this is more important that outranging opponents..

Most people don't know the difference because they have never handled a real weapon.... For me taking the PTW to hand was like bedding an old girlfriend... its just like you remember...and everything you liked.. and disliked about it.. all came back..

As a training tool... which is another important factor for me... everything else "ok" or "workable" wheras the PTW is as it should be.. virtualy indistinguishable from the real thing.

Fair enough Brian, you are quite right in that respect, when I go from my AUG to a PTW they both feel real, but going from a M4 to a PTW there is a major difference

TM did a good job on the AUG.. just not heavy enough...

Ha ha ha, I tried ordering an M4 through Mark back in August, got a short response back:


McGuyver, how do you find the M16A3?

At least with PTW's (as with most armalites) swapping out the top receiver, cylinder, and barrel is like getting a whole new gun and set-up.

(put my order in for the M16A3 MAX Burst, but I am in the Airport so slightly wary of doing up my EMT).

-Daes

Is it really worth it to pay an extra $1000.00 Systema PTW M733 MAX?

What in the world... Systema magazine's are 599.99 for a pack of 6? I seen them on the site just a little while ago for about 269.99 for a pack of 6. 68rds a mag.Oh wait those are 120rds mags but really whos going pay that much for 6 mags....

The same guys who buy PTW's.

if some china company made cheap Systema mags they could make a fuckin' killing.

My M16A3 is a Gen 1, so it's performance is nowhere near that of a new MAX gun. But, the basic platform is there and I can bring it up to Gen 3 standards for less than $300 or up to MAX standards for about $300 more. I can also make it semi-auto only, or burst with no extra expense involved (once upgraded to Gen 3 level), so with a custom 6.01mm barrel I could use the M150 at most fields in semi-auto and have a good gun for single-shit kills or perhaps double-taps.

Im sure Huang is hard at work

One reason the mags are so expensive is that Systema insists on using real mag shells for their PTW. This is one reason that the MP5 was delayed. H&K wouldn't authorize their use for an airsoft gun.

they sell the mag for 250$ us for a box of 6 there:

http://www.thewarstore.org/Systema_PTW.html

I'm not going to lie that I don't want one really really bad, but are they really worth it for the majority of the airsofters in Canada?

I view the PTW as a gun for those that ether : 1. Have horrible fracking luck with guns (=D). or 2. Those who know exactly what makes airsoft fun for them and are going to build it to suit there style of play.

Being said, I unfortunatly don't fall into ether, so I'm not going to spend the 4K needed to get everything I would want for it... Not to mention all the RS parts I would be getting.

I don't think the MP5 will be coming out anytime soon .. But who knows? ... I sure as hell haven't seen any new updates from the Systema rep.

Is the MP5 still being used by LE/MIL? I know that may seem like a dumb question to some, but there are soo many new, and more effective weapon systems out..

There was a bunch of photos floating around with HSS int. instructors teaching with MP5's. So if the biggest LE training school in the world is still using them, probably some agency is using them as well.

After shooting a real MP5 in full auto and shooting an M4 full auto, I can tell you I'll take the M4 any day of the week. The MP5 has just as much recoil and the front end is much lighter than the M4. This caused too much muzzle rise for my liking and I found it hard to place shots, even with small bursts. The M4 experienced little muzzle rise and I had way better shot placement.

I'm sure there are still lots of organizations that use the MP5. I just have no idea why. Perhaps 20 years ago the MP5 was innovative and agencies bought them and now have no reason (or money) to replace them?

If you want to shoot one as a civilian, go to Vegas. You can shoot them all.

MP5s never seemed like kickers. What was the load you were shooting?

I'm actually much, MUCH more interested in the KAC PDW. If Systema decided to make one, I'd shite my pants, my room, and possible a good portion of the house.

well well, aren't you guys really happy :P

its been a happy day for Canadian airsofters!

So , what, this thing doesn't sound like a sewing machine and has blowback?

You're saying then that it can be used and quasi-abused?

If it sounds as lame as any other AEG but has a few improvements....is that it?? Or am I missing something....?

I don't know how the things it offers put all other brands in there place like you say, elighten me?

i hope systema makes an ak

An MP5 or AK would be great. But I still want to know what pistol they will make.

Unfortunately there pistols will be like what 1000.00 or 700.00? Hahaha no lie. Especially when they make GBB's

Apparently they're really bad on full auto.

WA already makes pistols that (I'd like to consider, atleast) are generally PTW pistols. If you know anything about the inner workings of a 1911, you'll especially enjoy the realistic Browning chamber lock operation, and functioning grip-safety, and half-cock safety.

I don't know fuck-all about M92s, but I'd assume they're generally the same in terms of realism, and smooth operation.

Y'know, now that you mention it... I think I read that somewhere. Maybe I'm thinking of the SD5?

which wa's are these 1911,ifyou have time can i get a link please.

Generally any SCW 2 (or better). Albeit, some are different. as per RS counterpart, basically.

*EDIT* Retracted.

Quoted for the truth.

Lol.

No, they have a very mean and deliberate report. And with the M130 and M150 especially, they have enough recoil to keep your sight picture floating a bit. Basically, you know when it shoots and so does everyone else.

Yes. But within reason. I wouldn't try to buttstroke a rhino with it, but you don't have to worry about some cheap part breaking on it. There are none.

You have to see one, hold it and shoot it to understand. Whatever your experiences have been with any other gun are totally undone with a PTW. I know no other way to explain it. The PTW must be experienced to be understood.

Upgrade your gun to equal or better range than the PTW. Easy enough to do. Now take a gun and make it shoot as fast as a PTW. Easy enough as well. Then take a gun and make it shoot as hard as a PTW. Easy enough as well. Now try to do all 3 at the same time with the same gun. Then give it the lowest trigger lag of any gun made, give it superior current consumption (a 1200 mah battery will drive a 500+ fps gun for 1500 rounds), give it empty-mag interlock and make it tough and reliable. You can't do it, for any money and with unlimited time, unless you clone the PTW.

Guys upgrade guns all the time and no matter who they are or how much money they spend, there is always failures, compromises, performance goals un-met. Not with a PTW. But you can't learn about it on-line. Go to a game where one is present and then you will know. Those who see one but don't want one, quite frankly have a screw loose.

Quoted
For
Truth
;)

We've got three PTWs in our team, with a fourth in the mail. No regrets. None.

Indeed... the PTW is everything that everyone is trying to get in their guns..

excellent performance, not just " realistic" feel and handling..but "real" feel and handling..
and unmatched durability... all in one "out of the box" package..

Really what more could you ask for?

I doubt you will see an AK out of them... there are lots of AKs in the market that meet most of those requirements..

and I doubt you will see a pistol out of them.. again already lots of pistols that meet that criteria.

I really do hope that we see an MP5...It makes sense .. seeing as they are trying to break into the same market that Simunitions is currently dominating..

I agree that there are other subcalibre machine guns that offer better, more stable performance than the MP5 on the market now... but few that enjoy as wide a distribution. I think that the MP5 will still dominate that niche for a few years yet.

their website says smg and handgun, soo I will keep my hopes up for now. Right now I see nothing on the market that meets requirements of PTW as a sidearm not "out of the box". I have had a few good ones but I would like to see what they do. MP5 does make the most sense. I have only spent around 20 minutes or so using a PTW but that was enough.

Quoted for truth.

That's why I bought a PTW and sold all my Armalites.

Nothing else can compare.

I only keep my other AEGs just because I like the "look" of them. But if I'm going to use a performer, I'm using my PTW. Simple as that.

I had the same thoughts as most other doubters when I first bought it: "oh please, it can't be THAT different. It runs on the same concept: battery powers a motor, motor spins some metal gears, metal gears crank a piston, piston gets released and pushed forward by a spring which compresses air behind a BB and spits it out a narrow metal barrel."

No man. It's not the same. Based on that description I just made... yeah... it's that. It just does it.... *so well*. Even *I* can't describe how beastly a PTW Max shooting an M150 spring with a 12v 1200mAh battery is. It's just... Godly.


When Systema Engineering released the PTW, angels wept upon said gun, and thus, the weapon of God was born...

And I have a new sig.

Did you manage to sell off your 468? That was surely one of your hawtest builds.

Personally, I've never held a PTW, but if it's anything like a RS AR....it's money well spent.

I *JUST* sold it today! :D

Sadly, I already miss it. If I had the resources to convert my PTW in to an M468, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Congrats... I guess? :p

The parts should be available. The fluted barrel, and 468 suppressor are probably your biggest challenges. Everything else is pretty off-the-shelf.

But if you were referring to money.. then .... yer SOL :p

Well, I still have yet to solve a problem that persists with our pre-assembled SCKs. Using the M110 cylinder set and the 12V 1200mAh battery, I'll get about 5-600 rds before the PTW stops shooting. Only by recharging the battery will the PTW start shooting again. Anyone of you PTW users have this problem? Does leaving the battery in the stock drain the battery after a few days?

Well, how about recoil almost as stiff as a 5.56mm and a charging handle that works like the real steel? My Sun Project may not be as durable or as flashy as a PTW but it has both of those features as well as no trigger lag, a highly distinct and intimidating report, and can go from 280 to 400 fps with the turn of one Allen key.

If Systema took the gas blowback engine from the Escort/Sun Project series and built it into the PTW system, they'd have an incredible full function, TRUE training weapon to sell. Sadly I suspect people will again look at the hose and tank and base their opinion solely on that, and such a beast will never see the light of day.

Then again, keeps my toys in the realm of the rare...

Wait, I thought LA Studios made a version exactly like that? YouTube - L.A Studio's M4A1 (gaz blowback)