Will Airsoft prices drop, our doller is on Par?
 

Ok Our doller is ether on par or a sliver lower then the american doller. When Are we going to get a break on airsoft. I mean to charge us 300 dollers more then the americans have to pay is sad. 150 more is exeptable but not 300.

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

And that hole " We are paying for there Props license " With lower prices more perchases can be made and in the long run more money for there license. Were one person can only afford one gun a year, now with lower prices they can aford two or more and might be buying alot more within the year. Insted of having to wait a year just to buy one gun they can save up and buy many throughout the year. See more money for there license.

Now I know im going to be flamed about this but that just means this thred isent for that person. This thred is for people like minded wanting to talk about the topic.

Supply and demand. If Canada had a huge supply of airsoft then prices would drop for sure.

Good point.

so when I ask " Why not invest in a store front and get more suplie " people tell me there is not enough demand. Yet Ive talked with alot of people in person, ive even gone to almost every store in toronto that sells bb guns and the truth is the demand is there. But where is the suplie?

Why would companies like crossman still be around if there wassent a demand for Pellet/bb guns?

Thank you for your reply Syn.

We don't really deal with crossman stuff here. The demand for them falls into the 16 year old white boy in the suburbs demographic.

im so jealous of the united states. now that our dollar is the same as there, i can get a VFC HK 416 for 450, but because this is canada, it would cost me over 1000 =(. At least i can't be blamed, i vote conservative =P

Yes I was just saying there is a demand becuse those 16 year olds will soon be 18 and would like to own Airsoft. And most 18 year olds in the 1990's would love to own airsoft now. I dident even know airsoft existed untill 2003. And I have owned alot of CT bb guns.

MY point was there is demand. The sterotype that crossman is only wanted by 16 year olds is not part of it.

I was under the impression that in order to maintain a decent profit margin, airsoft retailers in Canada have to juice the prices a bit. From what I hear, it's very expensive to acquire the proper licenses and paperwork to import airsoft rifles and pistols, seeing as they fall under the replica firearm category.

Something like that...

Actually, I have a friend in the process of attempting to start up his own airsoft business. He says the liscense will only cost him about a grand and 500 each year, and that he could still make a pretty decent profit charging lower prices then 007 and A&A.

its not just the license that cost's money. Your store must also meet the requirements as far as security and the like as well as insurance for said store. So the license is only a small part of the operating cost. If it was easy to do there would be stores everywhere. Unlike the US, we (government) in Canada are not as quick to let someone open up a store that has anything to do with guns of any form. Especially with the anti gun liberals running around.

Can't wait for your friends store to open then.

This is one determined guy. It's either that, or he wants to join the military. And he likes airsoft more then Afganistan.

Hey +1 to him if he can do it.

Walk down young st. in Toronto. There are stores galor that sell bb guns in them. So Sell some T shirts, call your store a clothing store and sell Airsoft secondary. Bam your just like everyother bb gun store in toronto only you have a better product and you will get alot more buisness.

Amano, you got your hands on the folding stock for the SPAS-12? NICE!

Yeah it was a pain in the butt too. Looked online and emailed so many retailers all didn't have it in stock. Was lucky that someone saw my thread and messaged me, so I bought it. Feels really nice with the stock.

Yeah, I was going to grab one a few months ago, but none of the retailers could get any of the folding stock version, so I decided to not get one entirely. The stock makes it look completly different.

You might as well ask:

- If our gas prices will drop to match the US (US gas prices were always way cheaper than Canada, even nowadays with the on-par dollar)
- If hardcover and paperback book prices will match (they never have, and at times you're paying a 30-40% premium for just buying in Canada, even though books aren't prohibited importation goods)
- If vehicle prices will match (again, not a prohibited good, and as detailed through several news channels, this has caused a lot of grief with Canadian dealerships across the border in recent years. Cars are simply cheaper in America)
- etc.

There are a lot of factors besides the simple dollar that determines the cost and value of a product. Logistics being one of them, supply and demand being the other. In the grand scheme of things, the cost of the license required to bring in the goods is petty compared to the other details required to run an airsoft business.

Considering the lead-times required to run an order for restricted goods, you may want to pose your question 3 months down the road, when goods start arriving that were purchased when the dollar dropped.

Kick in the proverbial "supply-and-demand" curve, and you can see that the prices won't change much.

Some retailers may charge an insane amount for guns, but guess what? They still sell out.

Of course they run out, they only buy 10 of an item most of the time. Then they dont restock for months and when they do its 10 or less. look at walmart. when they run out they restock in a few days. Airsoft is the same way in Japan. When a store there runs out the restock in a few days. when we run out we have to wait for international shipping becuse our stores only buy limeted quantity.

Theres something to throw in. Limeted quantity will yeald less profit, Unless you mark up the cost. Now a large quantity will allow you to mark down the cost of the goods to the consumer and allow you to make a large profit. In the end having more of something makes you more money. And making it cheap makes you even more money.

The only thing holding up gas prices is the government of canada. And the only thing holding up airsoft prices are the retailers trying to earn as mutch as they can. Im not blaming them we all want to make money. But right now is the time to make a butt load of cash. You buy allot of stock, sell it all cheap and reap in the dow!!!!

Don't go through Asia go through America its going to be cheaper on shipping. And if your going to go through Asia go to the manufacturers and get a bulk order. It's cheaper through the states if your going to buy from a second party retailer.

Look at Sterios in Canada. One company will list $200 and another will beat that price by 5%. What governs that? Just becuse you can charge an insane amount, dosent mean you have to.

Only downside with that is many guns sold in the US dont have trades and they all come with glazed orange tips, and alot if not all players hate that.

Um, am I the only one that sees that our dollar is gaining on the American dollar, not the yen?

Also (directed towards original poster that this was a reply to), where do you think guns from the States come from? Most likely Asian retailers, and then they put a markup on them. So why not just buy from Asian retailers?

That's an understood practice in any reselling business - wholesale prices are always cheaper, but if it's that obvious, doesn't that make you wonder WHY they bring in limited quantities if they could make extra massive amounts of money on top?

Capital isn't endless, neither is warehouse space to store the goods, and it's possible that the importation permits actually have restrictions put on them that limit the quantity of guns that can brought in at any one time.

Back to the capital topic as well, sitting on the capital while you wait for it to sell also prevents that equity from being invested while it's sitting in product inventory. That's lost earning potential, that any smart business should take in to consideration when marketing their goods.

Anyways, I don't retail those restricted goods, nor do I plan to, so I don't know all of the intricate details behind it. But as a parts & accessories retailer, I have enough of an understanding of that side of the business to realize how much of an extra step is required to retailer in the bigger stuff.
It's just the way the business is, as are many other businesses. And yes, the government does have a huge hand in the pocket as well. Ultimately, airsoft retailers are businesses and have to pay income taxes on the goods they sell. The more they sell, the more the government takes. Surprise surprise. It'd be nice if airsoft retailers could work under the table, but if a crackdown ever rained down on them, forget about charges for selling airsoft, they'd have to worry more about tax evasion charges.

For an idea of some overhead costs, have you ever looked at the income tax rates of Canadians versus Americans? As well as land/warehouse ownership costs?

As a retailing business, there is a lot of overhead costs that simply make it not feasible for many products to be cheaper than their American counterparts.

Granted, I would be turning a blind eye if I were to say that supply and demand did NOT drive the prices in the Canadian market more than anything. Truth of the matter is, that's the largest driving factor.

Personally, if I were looking for a gun right now, I would gladly pay the asking price - complaining about it will leave you with nothing. Including no gun in your hand. Want to get that gun? Work harder to scrape up the extra dough. You just gotta do what you gotta do.

Just a small note: Isn't the Canadian Goverment making it harder to import airsoft in the country? And also... Isn't the retailer at risk selling prohibited devices to the gp? Plus I don't see a price drop in airsoft in Canada what so ever...

I thought onem was dead or dissapeared today i am sad.

One factor your friend may not have considerd is the fact that he will have to pay tax and dutie on the stuff as it crosses the border that will drive the price up quite a bit.

Why do Canadian Retailers Charge what they do?
 

Because they can.

They can sell as many guns as they bring in... They could likely increase their prices by 25% above what they are now.. and still sell everything they bring in.

Its a business... not a charity... they don't bring in guns so you can play.. they bring in guns to make money. The more the better.

Sure there are Licensing issues... storage and security...Duty and Taxes.. all this serves to make guns landed in Canada more expensive than most other places... but at the end of the day... they cost what they cost...

I know people who are jumping through the hoops necessary to get import licenses... sure the application fees and actual license fees are not that expensive... but what does months of time jumping through hoops cost?

Also... its not like a fishing license... you have to already have a viable business.. and illustrate a reasonable need for an import license.... if the CF
O even sniffs the possibility that you plan to retail to the public... you will NEVER be approved. Even any connection to the "Airsoft community" is the kiss of death for any props license application.

Maybe seeing two of Canada's major retaillers and a couple minor retaillers busted with weapons trafficking charges has made some retaillers take a good hard look at more secure business alternatives. Federal prosecution might be a reason why nobody wants to get into airsoft importations in a big way to reduce prices to the consumer.

One problem is that some retailers (A&A comes to mind) bought stock a year ago or more when we were sitting on 70/dollar. A&A has a full metal M16VN that I'm sure Mark has had on his site for well over a year. Maybe he paid $400 after shipping from HK for a gun - there's no reason he should be expected to take a 30% loss now that the dollar is up.

On a related note, you can't compare airsoft retail practices to buying "object x" the "real world". Sure, McDonald's can drop their prices to reflect a stronger dollar on Big Macs because they sell 10,000 per day. In an airsoft retailers' world, he might only sell a dozen guns per month, and only make a small profit on each. He can't afford to eat the 30% difference, or he makes nothing for his time, effort, and headaches.

The biggest issue with importing airsoft in Canada is supply and demand. We simply don't have a big enough player base in Canada buying high-end guns (maybe 2000 players tops, and I suspect it's probably closer to half that; this is an unscientific guess, and does not include WelfAirsofters who want guns under $150, or buy Crossman).

In the end, it becomes an issue of "put up or shut up". If anyone here thinks they can do a better job and get guns to people for cheaper, then put your money where your mouth is and open a store. There's a few such people doing it already. I've bought guns from them, and I'll be standing in line to buy from you if you can offer the same level of service and reliability at a cheaper price. Otherwise, you have no grounds to complain about pricing.

It Doesnt matter if he had the gun for over a year. He is oviously not selling it anytime soon with the price he has on it. If there was a retailer who sold airsoft guns for a price lower than the other retailers,they would get alot of buisness...trust me, my friends here want to get into airsoft BUT to them it is way to expensive and I wouldnt blame them.

I want to get into space exploration... but I can't afford the space ship.. so I guess I can't.

If you can't get over the bar... then you stay outside.. its that simple.

Participation in any activity is not a right... you have to earn it.. including the money necessary to buy the required kit.

The existing retailers have limits on how many guns they can bring in at a time... as would anyone else who intends to get into retailing airsoft guns.

so... if you can only get so many.. and there is not enough to service the demand... why would anyone choose to make less money on each sale?

Lower prices make sense in a competative market.. like it was 2 years ago with 8 retailers all looking for our money... the only edge you have is to drop margin.. and make it up on volume... but if the volume is capped... by import restrictions... dropping margin... only reduces total revenue... thats just bad business....

This coupled with the "quantum state" with respect to the legality of retailing airsoft guns... why would anyone risk fines, and imprisonment with every sale if they were not making as much money as possible with every sale?

Funny, my prices dropped to almost even with the US prices a few weeks ago.

Sales have not skyrocketted like you suggest they would.

Why can I not charge the exact same as US price even though our dollar is the same or more?

1) The bank charges money to convert money, hense you will find our dollar still doesn't buy 1 US dollar.

2) Shipping costs are huge. It cost $35 to send 35lb box to New York from California. It costs $100 to send that same box to Trenton Ontario. I'm already out $65 on every $1000 to $1300 shipment of gear compared to US
retailers.

3) Turnover. I still have stock that I bought months ago, and to sell it at the US prices I would loose money - however I have dropped the prices - why? because even though Canadian retailers like me try and stock huge amounts, there are still people who shop south of the border so I have to drop the prices to compete.



If your too poor to play airsoft, then the dollar exchange rate is not the problem.

Yes Tony Saprano, whatever you say...

Oh, and Farmboy I guess that I should of said , would get more buisness,But then again not very many people in Canada know what airsoft is...well atleast here in Newfoundland.Do you even sell airsoft guns ???

Need I say more? someone who feels basic economics is graft... I cast pearls before swine.

Cool, and I drink gin before vodka.

All im saying is Probejax, I support your friend!!Hopefully he goes ahead with his plan!

Of course it matters if he had the gun for a year and bought it at a different dollar rate. Very basic economics. He has had the capital tied up in the item for twelve months, and bought the gun for let's say 1.15 dollars. So if he dropped the price of the item to reflect the drop in the dollar (assuming he bought the item in US dollars not some other currency) he would increase his potential loss of profit on the item.

Why don't you try this one. Drive over to your local Porsche dealership and tell them you and some of your buddies want to race Porsches but can't afford it, would they mind dropping the prices. The purpose of a business is not to promote access to the sport, but to make a profit. You seem to have missed that point. Maybe there should be a welfare office that hands out airsoft guns to people who want to play but can't afford it.

Perhaps before you whine you should ask yourself, and tell us, what do you think the cost of the product is, shipping, duty, other overhead, and then add in something reasonable for the labour of the guy running the place, and then add it all up. Then explain what you think the airsoft (luxury LEISURE activity) ROI or ROE should be. Then if your numbers show you that the ROI or ROE kills that of other industries (say insurance or pharmaceuticals- but they're neccesities arn't they) then you can explain to us why the profit levels in this industry are unjust.

Until you can really do something like that, you are just another ill-informed name-calling, whiner.

And for the record Farm Boy is well versed in small business, importing and the airsoft industry. Care to tell us your amazing qualifications for your lazer-tight critique of Canadian Airsoft economics? (actually your comment about not many people knowing about airsoft in Newf. kind of undermines your lower prices/increase sales volume argument now doesn't it?)

LD

Actually oil prices flucuate all over the world, and have been going up consistently for many years, long before the oil even hits our borders.

Your comment about airsoft guns being just like other bb guns and that you could sell large volumes of them through an already established clothing store seems to miss out the history and regulation of these devices in Canada.

LD

They'll never drop unless someone else in Canada becomes an Airsoft Dealer and sells the guns for less. I hope that one guys friend starts an airsoft business because our airsoft prices really do need to change. I don't see or understand how someone can make you pay a whole 1000.00 CAD more for a Systema PTW. That's a huge pricechange.

Because they can. Why is this so hard to understand?

It's still not going to become American retailer price, you know. Maybe instead of 550, we're looking at 450, or 400. Which is like, a couple of shifts on minimum wage? Saves a fair bit of money, buit not exactly enough to start forcing the other retailers to bring down their prices signficiantly.

ok... lets ignore market economics... and run on Faerie dust instead
 

Look... If you were selling guns.. and you knew you could sell all you could get for cost plus X Would you chose to sell for less? if the supply was limited?

all you are saying is... my work is worth less than the other guy...

so look at it this way...

You can sell 100 guns this year.. as that is all you can get.

You can sell them and make $100 each one... or you could sell them and make $50 each one..

you are 100% certain you can sell them all.. but you can't get more.

Answer truthfully would you rather walk away with $10000.00 in your pocket or $5000.00 for the same work?

Who benefits by the choice to sell for less? 100 strangers... while your family suffers. Who in their right mind would do such a thing?

Who in their right mind?

Why, the dozens of failed business owners that I've seen come and go through our business financing program. You know, the ones that "think" they know how to run a business and make a living. The ones that think all they need to do is hang a shingle on a shop and wait for the $$ to just roll right in. The ones who figure their time is only worth $3.25 an hour, because that's how they set up their pricepoints once the smoke clears.

/sarcasm off


:cool:

Styrak

Look at the prices, there almost identical for both Asia and America. Wich means the Americans are getting there goods from the same place the Asian retailers do. shipping is allot cheaper from the stats to Canada then Asia to Canada, Jet fule is expensive.


ILLusion


Ok one thing you should know from dealing with Airsoft retailers is they can get bulk orders, so that restriction is most likly False.

Once you invest in something you wait untill it turns a profit. It becomes earning potential becuse you ivested your money into it. Your money sitting in your checking account is lost earning potential.

So inventory in a ware house or other storage facility is potential profit.
You have to sell to it get your investment back pluse more (Profit) to invest in other areas of your business, like a bigger storage facility or a store front or advertisment or an internet site.


More income means you pay more taxes but you still get more Take home. Its not like there is a tax braket that takes 70% of your money away.
To even get close to the highest tax bracket in Ontario you need to be making six digets. So the government holding prices on airsoft up becuse of taxes is bogus. You earn more you pay more but you still get more to keep.

Dude I know that for twenty dollers a month I can get heated storage that can hold allot of inventory. If your useing a ware house you must have inventory to fill it. If you dont your just investing money poorly. There are many cheap ways to store goods, especially nonperishable goods.

Im not complaining. Im just asking questions and looking for truthfull awnsers thats it. I would rather go without my hobbie like I have been doing, then pay for three of an item and only recieve one. That right there just isent enjoyable for someone who earns there money.


Manmaries

Dude comments like that arrent nessessary.




MadMax

Thats a great point MadMax. What was the outcome of there cases?



Skruface

Well noone is expecting the prices to drop right away. Of corse you have to make profit on your purchase. but as our doller has gone up ive seen airsoft prices do the same. That dosent make scense to me and allot of others.
The price of a glock 18c has gone up from $290 to over $300. How does that happen when our doller rises.

There is a Larger player base then you think. The fact that paintball was taken from being an underground sport and brought into the main stream should show you that there is great potential for airsoft as a main stream sport insted of an underground one. Ive seen over the years that many paintballers have switched to airsoft once they found out it existed.




Brian McIlmoyle


Well they are risking fines and imprisonment if they sell even one airsoft gun if they are illeagle. so the fact that they sell them means there ether willing to take the risk and are prooving that its leagle, or its leagel, so they can sell as many as they want.

And importing once again i have seen bulk orders so there must not be a restriction, otherwise those orders wouldent have been made and
successfully deliverd.




Farmboy

Do you sell Guns or gear? Becuse if you sell guns at American prices Let us know and your stock will be sold out in minutes.



Lawdog

Dude lowering the prices isent lowering the amount you get for your investment, its lowering your profit on the item. you still make profit
just not an insane 100% or more profit. If a gun costs $181 dollers and your charged $500 doller Pluse shipping. Do you think the retailers getting $80 dollers profit or a hole lot more? Now if they Lower the prices by lowering there profit on each item then they can perchase more stock and in the long run sell more stock due to lower prices and turn more profit due to a higher client base then befor. Everyone loves a deal and it dosent matter how loyal you are a bargan is a bargan.

Does he sell guns? Are there Airsoft Commercials on TV Right now?




Lawdog

yes and we still pay allot more for oil then most places. Yet we produce oil our selves mmm isent that strange. We pay more for something we make our selves. Globally oil dosent cost that mutch becuse there is allot of it.
Locally our government is gready and we get the poopy end of the stick. If there is a shortage, gas prices would be $500 doller per liter.


Well is Airsoft leagle or illeagle? If its not classified as illeagle then you can sell it the same way. If it is illeagle then you cannot sell it at all.

Brian McIlmoyle

we have yet to know for shure that the quantity is limeted to that extent. I have seen bulk orders befor wich leads me to thinking no there not limeted to that extent.


Arnisador

Most of us base our buisness knowledge off of what we see when buying stuff for our selves. We know that wal-mart closes down almost every other store around it when it opens. Even now there selling milk bread and other items and reguler grocery stores cant compete. bulk buying and selling pluse advertisment makes allot more profit then not bulk buying and selling. Thats what most of us know. Unless you dont watch tv or shop at malls and bulk food stores then you wouldent know that.

Most businesses who fail dont advertise properly. Most people know that from living in a city. A pizza shop opens, you dont see a comercial you dont get a flyer you dont give them your buisness the Pizza shop closes.

yet " Buhbuhbuh buh buhh im loving it " makes you crave a Quarter pounder with Cheese. People need to be shown what they want most of the time and most people starting a buisness dont know that.

The US also buys huge amounts like you were saying with Walmart. They also get sent by ship from Asia, not air. They are sent over in sea containers not cardboard boxes.


Bulk orders do lowever prices to a certian degree. However most Canadian retailers can't purchase the bulk sizes to get the best prices, because they know it will take years to sell.

Inventory sitting in storage is not only potential profit but it is loss of working capital and costing me interest the longer it sits there.

Profit isn't just made in on a single sale of an item, it depends on quick continous turn over - the more times per year I sell my entire stock.

$10 isn't much. It's also percentages you have to look at. $10 is 3% on 300

Gear and equipement. We don't carry anything directed specifically to the airsoft market because the money is not there. You may think it is because you know 10 guys that want stuff, but wanting something and putting money down are two entirely different things.


Most retailers would jump for joy if they could make 100% margins.

Unfotunatly in retail it doesn't work this way. I've already said that I dropped my prices and there was no rise in sales. It doesn't matter if it's gear or guns, the same theory should hold true.

Take for example a gaming system or computer. The price drops after thousands are sold. They don't cut the price so that many more can be sold.

It's also not a profit untill I make more than I invested. If I bring in $40,000 worth of gear, I don't make any profit until I sell more than the $40,000 and covered my other expenses. If I sell a TAG RAC for $600 I haven't made any profit on it until I get above the $40,000 (not including other expenses)

Most business people base their knowledge off of experience in business and training. Not watching. Same goes for anything, your not special forces because you watched "Tears of the Sun".

Volume purchases, which can only be done if you have turnover or a huge amount of working capital. On top of that you need to be able to leverage your suppliers.


Actually there are a couple of reasons.

1) Not enough working capital
2) Bad products
3) Wrong area

You may be swamped with more sales than you can handle and if you can't supply to that demand........

ah yes, volume.

What too many people don't appreciate is the LEVEL of volume required in order to get your nice pricepoints and lower prices.

To simplify a bit what Farmboy nicely detailed: (with some pricepoints I recall seeing back in 2001 and 2002)

For airsoft, find me someone who is readily able to bring in, say 200 guns of every model at a time. And maintain those orders on a monthly basis to keep your supplier happy. Lets say we stick to the holy trinity of airsoft rifles An armalite, an AK47, and an MP5 model. Say 600 guns. At $250 a pop.

Do the math bucko. $120000 for a basic inventory. No special orders. Turn away all those folks who want an MP5 SD6 because you only carry MP5 A5's. Then turn away the next batch because they wanted CA and you only stocked the cheaper TM's. Forget about GBB's because you did'nt have enough capital to buy those, so turn all those customers away.

And before you tell me to "just go get a loan", you show me first the business plan that shows the 5 year projections that allow you to not only sell all those guns, but also maintain inventories, pay rent/mortage, storeage, taxes, that proves to the financer that selling guns is a feasible business here in Canada.

And this is just to operate a nice local (but through the internet, national) business, that would be designated a small business or any business less than 50 employees.


Yup...its just SOOOOO easy to run an airsoft business in Canada, with nice cheap prices for everyone, out of the kindness of one's heart, because gawd forbid you actually want to earn enough money to eat, pay rent, pay utilities, buy clothes for the kids and *gasp* save enough money to retire on.

What's that? Just do it part-time? Oh of course, because all part-time busines owners always have $120,000 just lying around to "dabble" in the world of military simulation games. Just advertise a lot, and use up all that "earning potential" in your chequing account to play with the big boys and become the Canadian Walmart of airsoft.


:P

Farmboy


Well that solves the problem. IF you cannot restock fast enough you loose Profit. Actually you can loose allot of profit by not having inventory in your store. Now some American retailers used to sell there guns with the origenal barrle included, not just the orange one and the trades had putty on them. Allot of british airsofters get there guns with putty aswell. There are many methods to getting rid of the putty. The condition your gun is in depends on
how gently your touch is while removing the putty.

You can get your guns cheap from america, shipping is cheap in bulk. You will have to try and get the putty guns that shouldent be to hard. And the hole tax and duties, well when have you ever had to pay $100 dollers in duties for a few cartines of smokes? Comon my mom goes to florida all the time and duties arent that mutch. Taxes should be the same, I know added together ther allot more then on there own. But like I said when Have you ever had to pay $100 dollers in Duties on a few cartines of smokes?

There is a masive market for airsoft. Just look at other places in the world were airsoft is sold, you see a growing market. In canada look at how many gun owners there are. Im pretty shure some of them wouldent mind
playing airsoft on there time off of work. Hobbies PRovide a large amoount of revenue in the world. So the market is there the only thing that would stop it or slow it down is restriction on ammount perchased and in most cases if its that restricted you get a few partners to get licenses and have them ship in the rest of your stock for a cut or less of a cut if you pay for there licenses.


IF I saw a Tanaka Colt .45 US $181 up on a canadian site for $350 CAD plus shipping I would buy it instently.Im shure if most people saw Any of there wanted guns for a few hundred less they would buy it in a hartbeat.
Lower prices means more people will want to buy. Look at most of the collectors. They can afford thousands of doller for there collection. What if it dident cost that mutch per gun. There would be more collerctors emerging.
Due to the fact that people who like guns usually like more than just one gun.

You missed the point. In the four years ive beeen privy to Airsoft, The price has gone up not down. And our doller has gone up not down. In Four years The PRice of an older gun usually drops. In Japan the price droped, but in canada the price rose. How do you explaing that? Even our tax has been lowered and the price has risen.

I dont know ten guys, I know a hole comunity of airsofters that would love the prices to drop. There dying to be able to buy two guns for what used to get them only one. There dying To have Airsoft fields that are airsoft only. There dying to be able to openly love there hobbie insted of keeping it a dark secret. I know that if you were saving up for a gun and then noticed the price drop $100 dollers a grin would come to your face.


Dude you sell gear and equipment, I can walk down my street and get gear and equipment, I dont need to buy it online. ( No disrespect intended )
Most people dont need to buy online. Hunting has been around for years, and most of the equipment you need for airsoft you can get at hunting or surplus stores. its a flooded market Like pizza stores. Now if you got your hands on some TM guns And had them at american prices, you would sell them out in a week. I say a week becuse people are werry about such things and it takes about a week to two for that first person to recieve there item and then the rest of the peole will rush to your site to get the deal.

Gamming systems are different. Companies like Sony and Microsoft have contracts that they have to up hold and they have other companies uphold.
So thats why you see the systems all priced the same. They are leagly binded to do so. Now deals to get rid of over stock is a completly different story. If it dosent sell make a deal to sell it. But as you may have noticed its kinda hard to stock current items like the wii. Becuse the demand is so hi. You still make 100% of your investment back you just cut your losses short and reinvest in another product Like all stores do. But if your smart you can prevent stock from pileing up. and Price has everything to do with it.


I ment avreage people not buissness people, your going to an extreme, Buisness is math and money and we deal with math and money all the time.
It dosent take a rocket scientist to see were the deals are and to save some cash. It is also obvious to see were a store dosent cater to your wants and needs. And it is easy to see were a store does cater to you. You buy groceries all the time. What makes price choppers so mutch different then IGA? The Prices on goods. What makes the Price Club and Sams club so mutch better to shop at? The price on the goods. Not just noname goods but the same goods you can get anywere else.

Dude its called a buisness not a hobbie. You ether get the money and spend it wisly or you dont. If you want to make money you will get allot of start up buy allot of stock and advertise that your stuff is cheaper then the other guys. Not better, its the same stuff just a hole lot cheaper. That right there is what made Buisness what it is today. Realising that there are more lower class residents then middle to upperclass. And that it is vertually untapped revinue. Poor people Want hobbies too.

Dude I said most not all, But most. A HArware store that opens within 10 minutes of a home depot is going to close verry fast. So placment closes allot of stores Aswell. Start up capital isent the main reason stores close, its customer base that kills a buisness.

Edit

Arnisador


Dude when you buy TM you can buy a vertiety from them not just the trinity.
Your obviusly trying to make a point by saying if you buy allot of one item you loose customers.
Well you dont have to buy one item, they have a large ammount to choose from just like a grocery store.
And iF you dont have something they want they can special order it. And if there are enough
people asking about it you can make it a part of your next shipment to try the item out.

You can show printouts of current gun perchases and say that even a fractioon of those people
like 1% would turn a profit for 5 years.

Most airsoft companies are part time on the side buisnesses. Web sites make things more outomated.
you would only need two people to handle odering and shipping.

Im just saying that right now most retailers are part time. If you make it a full time buisness
then of course you will put allot more money into it. And you can do well with 100 guns thats bulk enough.
And you can make them a nice veriety or you can open a forum and have polls. you list your prices and have people poll what guns they would buy for that price. Not all of the people will be buying the gun they recomended but most of them will. Most companies call them focuse groups and they have been useing them for years. See you can guage the market in manny different ways.

I don't suppose you remember that business out in BC back around 2005 that did exactly just that? BC Airsoft Supply or something, ran by a guy named Sam. They lost a lot of money when the import restriction tightened and an entire order was apparently seized, so they don't do business in Canada anymore. Yeah, importing in bulk always make things cheaper, but that's if it's legally feasible.

That's an unsafe generalization. Canadian society doesn't automatically equate to other societies and vice-versa, there is much more involved when comparing societies. Also, we might have a fair number of real steel owners among us, but there are also real steel owners who consider us silly. Hell, there are paintballers who think we're silly, and we play a game that is pretty similar.

There is a market there, but I wouldn't off-handedly suggest it to be a huge market.

If you only consider the strength of the Canadian dollar and taxes, yes, the rise is price is rather counter-intuitive. If you think about how hard it's gotten to import airsoft guns reliably and the dramatically decline in number of retailers, it really isn't that surprising that the price has risen as much as it has.

And before you say that is exaggerated, talk to some Mfg. Lets just say I could buy a couple houses a year with what I spend on Distributor level pricing.

Oh and don't forget you have to be in business for two years before applying for a business loan/line of credit.

Well your more than welcome to walk into your local store and buy Tactical Assault Gear, Blue Force Gear, Tactical Intervention, Otis, Alta, High Speed Gear.

You won't find it though.

Similar to saying I sell Aston Martins and having someone say that they can go down the street and buy a car. Yes you can buy gear at the local store but not the gear I carry.


Not if they do it right.

1) Provide better service

2) Carry products HD doesn't

3) Charge more than HD -WHAT? Yes, charge more

4) Provide better service !!!!

5) Do custom orders


With large "box" stores they rely on volume items that they can provide cheaper than the next guy. You can beat them with ways I just listed above.

You already have the customers on the way to buy something, just be able to provide it and the service.

You forget that high end clients always have money to buy. Poor people don't. The very thing your bitching about.


I'm sure the guys on the board here are looking forward to you opening your own Airsoft store, making millions and providing guns at half the price as other retailers. You seem to know what your talking about :rolleyes:

LOL! Quoted for truth.

onem, Farmboy and Arnisador is spot-on... just because you drop prices by acquiring greater volume, it doesn't mean you'll instantly sell tons more. You'll actually make an exponentially lesser amount. Profit margins on an actual consumer good can't be calculated in a linear fashion.

Case-in-point: This past september, I offered a 20% discount on ALL stuff I had in stock. That left me making either -5% loss or at most a 5% margin on the ORIGINAL cost of the items. That net loss/gain does not take in to account the time I've had to sit on the equity as well as the maintenance fees I've had to pay for the storage space those goods take up. That was fine with me, as all I wanted to do was just liquidate some of my capital - or at least use the month as an experiment to see what the outcome would be.

So what was the outcome? How did the sales volume compare to previous months? It didn't change. I didn't sell more. I sold the same volume. And ultimately, I lost money, rather than made money.

You can't claim to or speak like you know how the business works when you're not in it. You can't just drop prices and expect things to work just fine.

Another big reason why retail products don't have consistently fluctuating prices to follow dollar values is that although it's nice to enjoy the profits now, you must also realize that businesses must pocket that money to hold them through the tougher times.
We're not selling oil here - the price doesn't fluctuate daily as the cost of oil per barrel rises and falls. When the Canadian dollar was at $1.55 per American dollar, do you know how much guns costed back then? Approximately the same as what they cost now, and in many cases, the guns costed WAY more than what they costed now (anybody remember $700 MP5s?) This was also back when airsoft was completely legal to import. Yes, we had a period with much cheaper guns - but this was when there was big supply to fill the demand. Now we're in what could be considered a drought and supply is far from demand, and hence, the supply and demand model dictates that prices must rise.

Anyways, back to my original point in my first post: there are MANY factors involved in running an airsoft retail business that goes beyond what the current dollar value is and "bulk orders".

fyi: retailers typically get no more than an additional 5% on "uber-bulk" orders on top of their wholesale prices. 5% on a $250 (wholesale cost) product is less than $13. For the 3 -12 months that I'd potentially have to sit on that item to sell, I could've made an 18% (or more) profit by investing that capital with a qualified investment broker in some funds or stock market. THAT is what I meant by loss of potential profit. Even worse, is if you don't have the huge amount of capital to invest on a huge order - if you were lucky enough to have access to a BIG line of unsecured credit, you're still paying around 8.25% on rotating daily interest on that loan - JUST so you can make that huge bulk order to save that 5%. Even if you got that line of credit secured, you're paying what... 5.25% or whatever prime is right now? And guess what you're securing it against? YOUR HOUSE.

Something with that math just seems totally flawed to me, but you seem to have it figured out because you've seen how we do it.



Apparently, in Ontario, all it takes is less than 3 cartons (on top of your 1 carton exclusion) to pay over $100 in federal and provincial taxes and duties:
http://www.smoke-free.ca/factsheets/...ax%20Rates.pdf

That's... assuming you're declaring the cigarettes like you should be.

onem, please use the force and correct spelling lol

I never claim all my smokes, maybe one carton out of 3 or 4 gets claimed. Usually if they ask to open a bag or suit case to look I say sure go nuts , pop it open they see my clothes and a bunch of sex toys, they ask me to remove the sex toys, they lift up the top layer of clothes and find more sex toys and the agent usually stops after that. But if it helps if you have a suite case with a fautly bottom, or a accoutisc guitar that you can open up that back of the body. Im not promoting smuggling, I just like cheap cigarettes.

I dunno, man... I got busted once for not declaring cigarettes. Needless to say, smuggling is one thing I won't ever be doing ever again. It doesn't help that I'm red flagged for 7 years after I got busted - I get hit by customs every time I cross the border now.

I remember....
 

When I first started playing nearly a decade ago, Regiment Airsoft was selling Tokyo Marui M4's for $700, and it was over $800 for an SR16. That didn't include tax or shipping. Getting an M4 shipped to your house with a battery, charger, and a couple of hicaps was a $1000 investment.

And you know what? People still bought them at that price. Myself included. This is why I laugh at all the people complaining nowadays about the cost of a $500 airsoft gun.

If you can't afford prices now (some of the lowest they've ever been) you still have a couple of options:

1) take your chances and break the law and smuggle them in
2) quit your paper route and get a better job so you can earn more expendible income to spend on toys
3) find a different hobby that you can afford

Its a scary thing and all for what? to save a couple a hundred dollars a year on something thats slowly killing us. Deep down I know its not worth it but Im such whore when it comes to the alure of 2 dollar smokes!

That's what it boils down to. No one is forcing you to spend your hard earned cash on airsoft guns/equipment.

So if you don't like it the way it is, go find something else.

But wait! I waaant to play airsoft... so the world owes me the right to buy stuff a prices that I want to pay. Its not faaiiir if someone makes money off of me... I waant it.. so i'm entitled to get what I want.. on my terms...

I don't understand!!! this is how its always been I yell and someone sticks a milk swollen tit in my face.... this is how the world works right?

Thanks, after 2 years on these boards, i finally have a good signature.

On that note I could use a new free gun Brian. Tit me if you please :)

Hmmm currently I complain to my wife that I want my two toys back. Her reply is " There the babies now". So the yelling and screaming part does not always work.

That is absolutly fantastic. I love it. I nominated for all time quote of the year.

I haven't read the whole thread but the simple answer is because impoting airsoft for retail in this country is illegal right now. There is no legal route for getting them here if you plan to resell them. Props people are about the only ones who can do it legally and they have to have accountability controls to ensure the guns stay with them.

The online retailers ARE raping people but you have to understand that to get them into Canada under the current laws is EXPENSIVE. People do not take risks unless well paid to do so and the retailers (A&A, 007) have to also build in a cushion to cover any losses due to seizures.

A retail storefront in any major city would have so much overhead due to insurance and security that it would not be profitable.

I charge less than the online guys and my margins are not huge but it still would not be worth my time to charge less than $350 for what costs $150 in the states.

It's not the dollar, it's the fucking retarded laws created by the fucking retards who are ass-fucking this country to death.

Want an airsoft gun? Say no to government. They think you're too stupid and irresponsible.

Fellas, i'm just saying why pay $399 for a hfc usr-11 from A&A and then deep inside you know the same gun in the U.S.A is around $99....its sad.

... why pay $0.98 for a litre of fuel when and then deep inside you know the same fuel in Iraq is probably around $0.05....its sad.

Why dont you just shut the fuck up, stop complaining, and order from online, no one is asking you to buy from Canadian retailers.

As sad as it is... it is reality... so not buying something here because it is cheaper in a place that you can't buy it... how does that make any sense?

It costs me 3.00 a can for my favorite beer at the LLBO... I have it on good authority that I can get the same beer cheaper at the brewery in Pilzen in the Czeck republic... for less than $1.00 Trust me if i could get this beer cheaper I would save A LOT of money... should I refuse to buy it here? because it is cheaper in some inaccessable place?

This makes me sad.. as well... but then I pop a beer and I feel better despite being "ripped off" more than $2.00 a can because I have to buy my beer in canada.

Ya,that gets to me also....

Makes me a very sad panda...

Why pay the 12 dollars that I have to for a pack of cigarettes when I can jump over the boarder and buy a pack for 2 dollars or a cartons worth for a little under 20.

I stated before that I have done it before and I may do it again, I know its not right, and theres no need to do it. But the diffrence between claiming an aeg and claiming a pack of smokes is atleast I can come back home with the smokes in the end.

If I factor in the cost of gas, my personal time to drive there and back it the carton itself , it would actually cost more than buying in country.

Its not fair the way airsoft is in Canada, but as it stands, theres not a whole lot we can do about it, we can bitch till we are red in the face, but it has the same affect of those lame email forwards that tell people to not buy gas from a certain brand of gas station on specfic day, it doesnt do anything.

Onem, I'll make you a deal.

You front all the $$ needed to get focus groups, to get my licensing and permits, to get the advertising done, and all those things that you think are just so simple and easy to do. Front me the $$ to get my starting inventory as I've described before, but it will be better because you can get me a better variety from a better retailer.

Do all that for me, and I will personally sign the paperwork to open a new cheap airsoft gun sales e-store for all of Canada. I'll even front the cost of incorporation if needed, as well as a business license.

Once I sell enough guns to cover all the costs you incurred, plus the costs I'll be incurring on a monthly/annual basis to run the company, I'll pay you back every last red cent, PLUS a 10% commission. Sound good?

In fact, once I get the store established, cover all expenses, plus a mere $8per hour wages (which is less than minimum wage here in Saskatchewan...and we have low overhead too, so it keeps costs down) to myself for all the time I put into running and operating the company, I will sign ownership over to you, with no extra fees. And you can continue to run it as you see fit.

Of course, none of this will occur though, until both you and I have recouped our cash out to get the venture started. Its only fair...I wouldn't want you to be out any money after 5 years once we're operational.

I think it sounds fair. Its a killer deal for you. ASC patrons? Don't you think this sounds fair?
:)

To my knowledge, the cases have not reached their conclusion. I do know that some of the defendants have been prosecuted for a few years now. Defense against federal prosecution of this type is quite an expensive affair. The costs can be quite crippling especially since a retailers income source is cut off (active orders to cease business operations) and legal costs are quite high to begin with.

In any case, even if one is sucessfully defended against federal charges, the costs are not reimbursed. All one acheives is a stay out of jail not free card which may or may not come with a requirement to stay out of business (in the case of settlement) and/or siezure of previous profits.

The long term outlook is quite crummy. Given the fact that a significant fraction of the proper retailers of airsoft guns in Canada have faced federal prosecution of some sort, a reasonable smart person (notionally someone with the intellectual and financial wherewithal to start a good AS biz plan) would give some significant consideration into other business ideas that didn't come with a possible accusation of weapons trafficking.

A reasonable person would have to charge a significant margin for products that could land them in jail. They'd have to charge even more when they correctly considered that their past profits could be siezed for wrongful business in the past.

Dude i dont think he can front you any money he only has dollers.

Gentlemen,

It seems futile for us to argue about laws that we, as civvies, have virtually no say in. The problem, of course, is that we are trying to change the system from the outside. We need to affect change from the inside.

Therefore, I propose that during the next federal election, we establish the Canadian Airsoft Party (CAP). Since airsoft is so widespread and apparently so popular, we can easily get our members elected on the sole platform of legalizing airsoft. That way, once in government, we can introduce legislation ourselves to repeal and/or alter the existing laws.

Until then, let us rally support to our cause!

A chicken in every pot, and a CAP in every ass!

AMEN !

ummmm

maybe not chicken. Bad case of avian flu hit a chicken farm a couple days back just north of here. 50,000 birds put down.

We do have llama's though. One can fill several pots.

Therefore I propose 33 llamas in every communal pot, a Rhino in every seat and a CAP in every ass. :D

Well im not complaining im just wondering if the current state of our doller will be changing Airsoft prices in Canada. I Did not know that Retailers have been fully prosicuted. Since that is the case Then the prices are reasonable due to the fact that lawyer fees might be needed in the future.

MAybe we start a donation for these retailers to help them with there court cases. And we should also start a donation for the Airsoft initiative to prepare for any leagle fees in the Future. I Will defenitly Donat to a worthy cause for my hobbie and to help anyone fighting for my hobbie and I think alot of others would too. I think a Faq on the history of airsoft in canada and the current state of those retailers cases might be a good idea aswell.

some sort of advocacy/oversight body for the sport is about due, but I ain't gonna organize it.

Russ

If I'm not mistaken, way back when this was done. Check out KD's posts, it's there somewhere, good read.

If I'm not mistaken, Peter Kang threw a wrench in the process or something...

Oh God.. he said it! Oh! I said it.... Ahh! I said it again.....gahhhhhh

SHHHhhhhhhh......we don't talk about that person around here no more.....

Oh, right, he's kinda like Candlejack, I guess we shouldn't mentio

Who can't we mentioned, Peter K- **POW POW POW** AAAARG, GOD DAMN IT, I'M BLE- **POW POW POW**

Haha you're pretty dumb, you said candlejack, that means your gu

were will your freinds store open? ca m15a4 rules




ca m15a4 rules

Did you guys know that candlejack did th

Crosman cutting back
 

Crosman just shut down there distribution center in peterborough, so maybe the demand is dropping...

/b/rothers unite.

1 & 2 & 34 on /b/rothers uniting.

f*ck, sorry. It was late and I wasn't thinking straight.

Did someone call?

As requested...

Warning: NSFW

http://tinyurl.com/2g9h9s

In before B&

Yeah, I was just saying that candlejack is a real sta

Why hullo thar

It's called supply and demand. There is one retailer supplying all of Canada; therefore low supply and huge demand. Want prices to fall? need more retailers and thus more competition. Not hard to understand people.

When you only have one supplier his costs in time, and money in getting hired assistance, goes up to keep track of, and service all the airsofters in Canada. Therefore even if you see a drop in the cost of airsoft weapons due to a drop in the USD the costs to the retailer are not really going anywhere but up or at a minimum staying the same.

Oh jesus christ it's Candle Jack, FUCKIN RU

there's only ONE commercial importer in all of canada at this time, there's only TWO things that could possibly lower the cost of airsoft:
1) more people buying from retailers; airsoft will be cheaper in bulk, and having retailers reduces the strain on the importer
2) another importer starts bringing in guns; again, reduces the strain on importers

ThunderCactus and myself definitely have an advantage in this case, we know mark personally. It is a lot more work that anyone on here probably understand, minus a few who have experience running their own businesses. I don't envy how much time, and effort he needs to put in to get those products out to most the canadian airsofters. If it were me personally I would have raised prices 25%, and in fact there are times I even suggested to him that he do so.