Smart and not so smart upgrades (repost, long).
 

This follows from folks saying I'm too negative. Really long post...

What follows applies to (almost) any AEG out there. There are so many brands that I wont bother mentioning any; just find parts that have proper specs, any of the Retailers will have them in stock.

Smart; start by asking for HELP, specially the first time you will take that gun apart. Also do your research because many upgrades require other important changes that are not always obvious.

So, what is smart? Smart are changes that will improve the function of the gun without causing damage to other parts, or people.

Example; Marui really should sell their guns with metal bushings pre-installed. It's one of the first parts you must add with any spring upgrade. Now other companies have guns with metal bushings from the factory.

Smart spring choice; you want a power level that only requires changing the bushings. If it starts to chew up your gears or your piston, the costs escalate. (Edit: the quality of some springs has changed since I wrote this, so pick a spring that will give you between 320 and 360FPS at the most, from whatever brand is recommended at the moment). A spring that gives that FPS will work well, and will be safe for the gun and everyone.

Other smart suggestions; the best battery to match the upgrade. Most guns are designed for 8.4 volts, so to avoid electrical problems stick with that. But the MAH rating is often not enough. Do your best to save cash for batteries. A pair makes sense. Dont scrimp on the cost of the Charger. Badly charged/discharged batteries are useless and costly. Investing in a top of the line charger pays for itself within a year.

Good ammo; dont buy crap. Enough said.

Basic maintenance; buy the right tools, oils, a good protective case or bag. Look for something discrete if possible.

Not so smart upgrades (or stuff that can certainly wait);

Scopes of all kinds. Airsoft guns rarely have the range to make those worthwhile. They also dont tend to have the accuracy for which a scope becomes truly useful. Red-dot sights are a reasonable choice, but they can also wait.

Cosmetics; a pretty gun wont do much for you, really. That can wait. Some changes in that area can cause more damage than it's worth. Most airsoft parts are plastic or alloys that dont do well with some paints or chemicals. What happens next is that you suddenly find that getting spare parts is a real pain in the behind.

Barrel changes; fairly easy to do if the barrel remains the same lenght as the original. Is it really necessary? That's debatable. Many players have excellent results with stock barrels, some swear by the tightbore. My criteria here is simple. Is the expense worth the gain? So far for all the guns I owned, the answer is no.

If you change to a longer barrel, do your homework once more. Airsoft guns, when you step away from the looks, are nothing more than an electrical/mechanical contraption that must follow the laws of physics.

The longer the barrel, the more pressure is needed. Mechanically, this becomes a good puzzle to match several parts. Expensive too.

Accuracy; this is a tough one. Airsoft are creatively modified smoothbore, and the ballistics are more akin to a musket or shotgun than a rifle. The most you can expect is about 150 to 200 feet. The solutions for airsoft are tighter bores and the backspin from the hopup system. If you adjust the hopup properly, even a stock gun or one with mild upgrades will make you a really happy player.

Speed; not enough is not good, too much is bad. That also includes motor speed. High rates of fire are fun, but really they are not that important. The stock motor is just fine. You also diminish the wear and tear. Above 400fps you get some strange problems that have a lot to do with basic physics. A light and round projectile just cant stay stable if pushed too fast. Fact of life. Safety has been discussed to death, and many places have limits anyway. There's a good reason why intermediate powered springs are strongly suggested.

Other accessories; metal bodies, silencers, bipods, lights, lasers. Metal bodies are not necessary at all. Nice to have later, but not needed. Silencers look cool, change a bit of the sound, but that's about it. Many folks use them to hide longer barrels.
Bipods rattle too much, add weight, and are not used that often. All I've seen them used for was to display the gun on a table.
Lights; look cool, may be useful if you do a lot of gaming in CQB, indoors or at night, but that's about it. They (the good ones) are expensive and not really useful.
Lasers; useless in daylight, point back to you at dark, banned in many places due to the potential eye damage. Yes, police and military use them, but when the risk is to get shot for real, then a laser hardly matters.

Accessories to buy; spare ammo, spare magazines, spare parts, spare batteries, good tools, cleaning supplies.

As a last word, please, for your sake, swallow your pride and ask for help. I know a lot of folks who will help you for free, no charge, because it's fun.

This Post is straight up and honest. I feel this should be locked and put in the Information for Users Section. :blahblahblah:
thankyou Greylocks

I found this Info good for me to know as a Noobe
Thx man

Egg

Welcome. I hate wasting money or adding things to my guns that will mean, all of a sudden, several hundred dollars of costs.

What is most important is a gun that works well. A super upgraded toy that will break is not good, specially in the middle of nowhere during a big game.

I had to relearn everything about airsoft after over 2 decades of advanced firearms experience. What I wrote is a small summary of the important points.

Always go for functionality. A stock gun that works 100% of the time is much better than an upgraded gun that jams ;)

Grumpy Old Man's Sensible Guide to Upgrades:

I'm going to archive this in Info in a little while, thanks Greylocks.

My 2 cents is that people should avoid any substantial upgrades, or only upgrade when they firmly understand (not THINK they understand..) what they're doing in their guns.

I fall into account for that qoute I buy just about anything I can for my guns although I'm young, so I guess I don't have to worry about paying bills or any of that yet....

EDIT: Really good info thanks :D

~Geoff

I'd add, besides starting by asking for help; start by playing first, for a year or so.

When you actually NEED an upgrade, trust me, you'll know what it is. Even the plastic bushings will be fine in a stock gun for that first year.

Different people like different things, and different guns have different needs. A metal body fixes a lot of things on a G3. Maintaining your Colts to prevent barrel wobble is unique to Colts. A lot of people like/use all sorts of optics. SMGs/CQB guns don't get upgraded the same way as long range rifles. Etc.

Again, you'll know what the gun's shortcomings (or strengths which you want to enhance) after you've played a few times. Quite a few times; there's no upgrade to fix crappy players, so make sure the problem actually does stem from the gun (accuracy comes to mind for this one).

I'll add something to the Not So Smart list; upgrading springers.

Apart from sniper guns like the APS, M40 or others of the same quality, upgrading a springer is pretty close to the most useless, money-wasting, idea I can think of in Airsoft.

The end results are usually the cost of a new AEG, and the performance is still sub-par.

Greylocks, EXCELLENT POST my friend (if I can call you that).

As a newb, I understood and agree with what you stated - because, although unknowledable in this field (AirSoft)... it is mere logical conclusions!

Cheers to you buddy!!!

Thanks for the tips and most of all, your honesty!

Cya,
KaOz.

hey I as many other players can vouch for that... my stock M4 was the best gun I have owned.. it had really good range/accuracy once hop up was properly adjusted. very helpful psot Greylocks

Interesting new note. Recently I discovered with the help of a good Chrony that my AK47 with metal bushings and a M120 was shooting over 440/450fps. Spring and bushings were the only changes.

Since the filed rules where I play called for much saner power, I changed the spring to a PDI150. I was still over 400, averaging 420fps.

Now I've almost gone full circle; stock spring, stock piston, stock everything except the metal bushings. It shoots at 300-310 and still has a great range and accuracy.

Moral of this story? If I had just spend the $20 for bushings in the first place, my gun would have served me much better and been much safer for all (also a LOT cheaper for me).

What other good came of this? A lot of people I know are completely changing their view of upgrades and going for better parts like bushings, pistons, gear sets, and springs below the PDI150.

The results are quite educational.

Very informative, although I do have a comment: A scope, while of limited use for actual targeting, could be useful for recon, zooming in on a suspected target. Basically a monocular already attached to the gun.

I'm a member of the not so smart. I put in a 190% spring once and though I had upgraded systema gears, they were not high torque so I tore 3 teeth off of it. Man did that hurt the wallet. This was when airsoft was just starting. Thank goodness for limits, it saves the poket book as well as people!

and watch out for the PDI130s I got one...and it was really a 170 or 190, I was getting like 420fps with stock gears and motor and everythign except the bushings, not friendly. I was using it for a little while, too, until I got it chrono'd at Deadlands.

So, in conclusion, the PDI130s tend to be mislabled. :banghead:

I'd just like to add something about lasers, banning them at games is sctrictly on paranoia. To damage an eye with the lasers we use would take minutes on end just stareing at it. On the rare ocasion that one hits the eye in action, it would do no damage at all. They're not strong enough to instantly blind/damage your eye with one glimpse.

I respectfully disagree...

Depends on what class of laser, however. Also, green lasers are much more powerful, and will cause eye damage (so will some red lasers). Yes, you won't go blind instantly, but the lasers will cause some damage. I for one, like the fact that lasers are banned at most, if not all, places.

A red laser is pretty much useless for outdoor games, anyhow.

Please keep discussions on topic, or post your own thread.

The only airsoft silencer I've seen that's effective at suppressing sound is a TM Socom Mk23 NBB. It doesn't muffle it entirely, but when one is firing it and has a hard time hearing it themselves, it is safe to say that it works well.

But I'll agree that attaching a sound suppressor to an AEG and expecting it to be quieter is an exercise in futility. Gearboxes are just too loud.

great long guide (FAQ) for anyone.

Class III's (which are near-unavailable to the general public) are the only ones with any real dangers. Class I and II's are very safe, it's actually more dangerous to look at the sun for a split second then getting beamed by either type of the two classes of lasers.

For suppressor, it really does have effect!
The main reason is this it abosrbs the higher frequency sounds. Human ears less sensitive to lower frequency sound than higher frequency sound.
My AUG mod with KM suppressor is almost inauditable to my opponents. (yet i heard really noisy gearbox sound, as my face and ear is next to the gearbox.)

Again, if you want to start a thread on something that has no bearing on the original subject, please start your own thread.

Thread cleaned as requested.

The more you change the more chances of things messing up.


Edit... even after cleaning the me too's and such still come in.

Agreed :tup:

Kevin, start your own thread.
You obviously have not read this one... It's about the basics, not about individual questions.
Thanks.

the marui origional parts work fine
the gears, piston and cylinder are well designed...and the material is strong enough
all u 've to change are the spring guide and bushings.
the metal cylinder head and pistol are harmful to yr gearbox.
I am a HK airsoft player, nice to meet u

You obviously posted in this thread without reading it. This is not an opinion poll, and what you said has been said already.
Welcome to ASC, read a lot before posting some more, and remember our laws are far different than Hong Kong's.

Feel free to start a thread of your own instead of adding un-necessary things to this one. A moderator was kind enough to clean it twice lately...

So everyone? Please read before typing?

i need advice
 

would any of you guys know if a PDI 150% spring and 6mm oilless bushings would be good for an ICS MP5 A4?

What do you mean by "would be good"?. Are you after a certain FPS?

Go here ---> http://www.airsoftcanada.com/SpringChart.html

You did not read any part of this thread, or the rest of this section of the forum...

RE: Greylocks
 

yes i did. i could not find the answer anwhere else so i asked it
ok?

the answer is on this forum.
to determin if its any good, you have to ask your self, what do you want?

Bullshit; I copied from the First post in this thread, and I wrote it too...

"Example; Marui really should sell their guns with metal bushings pre-installed. It's one of the first parts you must add with any spring upgrade.

Smart spring choice; you want a power level that only requires changing the bushings. If it starts to chew up your gears or your piston, the costs escalate. That is why I always suggest an equivalent spring to the PDI150. It works well, is safe for the gun and everyone."

Hi. I'm pretty much a noob at this sport. When iwas reading your thread you mentioned crap ammo. I havent ordered any good sets of ammo but am actually using that canadian tire .12g ammo. My question being is this crap ammo? or would it be wiser to order some .2g ammo and such?

Short answer, yes it is crap ammo.

Get .20 or .25's, .The .12's are only used on low quality guns like EBB's or springers (or guns that you dont care if the bb breaks inside them). Also, dont buy ammo from Canadian Tire.

Apparently they work quite nicely for claymores and launchers/grenades.

Ammo choice is not an upgrade, it's basic information. Not the point of this thread.

Read the rest of this website, start with the Information / FAQ section.

whats a good setup for 75 bucks?

spring, bushings, and a tight bore, if 75 bucks will even cover that.

Spring and bushings will cost you about $40. A 6.04 tightbore is about $60. Not too bad for $100 + installation.

Why did you post in this thread without even reading it? Basic components are listed, and you can then find the prices from any Retailer.

Hi, "Greylocks" i understand that you said that "A stock motor is just fine", but alot of people told me i should get a hammer 1300l motor for my P90 TR (i Had some spare cash) which i am upgrading to 400fps. My goal with buying a new motor is to reach higher fire rating and get the max durability and a safe foundation to upgrade to even higher fps (there is no limit on my teams play ground) My main problem is nobody has told me how much better the hammer 1300l is than the EG1000. I was hoping you could help me here? I really want to learn how to upgrade on my own Aeg; should i just buy a really cheap gear box and learn how to work on it with the money that would have gone to the 1300l instead?

I dont think you got the point of this thread. It's about simple upgrades that work for most guns, not about specifics.

If it's not broke, dont fix it.

If you want to discuss no-limits airsofting, find a board where this is legal to do and chat away.

If you want to go above simple stuff that works, start using the Search button. Plenty of threads of that kind already on this website.

Nice post. Should be sent to all newbies...

All newbies should simply read it, along with other stickied posts, instead of asking or replying.
Tons of excellent guides here, all ready to be consulted.

I was in a private game on a private area. With that said, I brought my binoculars with me as a means of helping me to spot guys hidden in heavy bushes with camo.

Problem,

I could'nt use the binoculars because of my safety googles keeping my eyes too far from the lens thus not seeing anything so having a scope is a good investement but not for precision perpouses.

bolle goggles have been known to work.

And this is related to this thread in what way, exactly?
Mods? Seems there's a need for yet another cleanup.

This is related to the thread in the sence that you state that having a scope is devoid of use because of lack of accuracy of the airsoft gun in question.

You should read your post again to refresh your memory me thinks ;)

Having a scope is not useful in most cases because they are set for REAL GUNS with far longer ranges.
How about you read up on what I'm talking about?

A scope is also an ACCESSORY, not an Upgrade. It is NOT necessary for the better performance of the gun.

This is NOT a specific guide, but a general one. If you want to learn about scopes and goggles, that is already written elsewhere.

You are new, read more before posting. Resurrecting threads for no good reason is not a good thing. Teaching us about this game is pretty pointless when you just signed in.

Please note that I am adressing this very clearly.

My note points to the fact that having an optic on the gun itself can be more efficient in spotting unclear situations than always reaching for binoculars and that not all binoculars are goggle compatible and note that I mentioned that accuracy is not the point I am going towards. This is purely for an informative end and I've read your thread because I felt it could help me and it confirmed things I already tought but your view on optics differs from mine so a debate over this was inevitable. Having said this, I debate this because it is implied that all newcommers should read this. I am inclined to say yes but I feel that this point has a weakness because it does not present the situation of optics in it's entirety.

It reminds me of a guy in my électronics class with an accent. People kept making fun of the way he talked but I did'nt because I knew the guy spoke 3 other languages.

Being new on a board does not imply being new to everything and common sense for that matter.

If you feel that I am attaking you in anyway with this you must understand that it is irrelevant because that is by no means my intention.

I stand by my opignon.

And my point is there are ALREADY threads about optics and their advantages, drawbacks, etc.

Please contribute in those threads if you find that you need to clarify anything. Okay?

Fist off, Greylocks is right "Accessory" not "Upgrade."

Second, sighted scopes do not enhance you're ability to see far off situations VERY OFTEN, if often enough to warrent having anything larger than 1.5X. Till you get into some heavy upgrades for certian sniper rifle. So a different thread to this one.

Third, the reason any sighted scope is useless is most the enviroment airsoft guns are used ((ie. where you game with them)) is more often than not woods with SMALL clearings.


Point four, is READ before you tell someone else how to right. No matter how much of an ol' sod he may be :P


And being new on a board means being new to EVERYTHING on that board. Common sense is also running short these days in this country so that lil reach won't help ya either. Common sense would dictate you'd read this thread was about COMMON/SIMPLE Upgrades and not Optics. Common sense would dictate you'd read that this was pointed out to you a few times. Common sense would dictate I'd stop reading this crap that is cluttering this genuine thread. Instead I'm going to go grab a can of desiel and watch this flame out! -.-...


Grey, you bastard, seriously! First its AK's, then glocks... and now doing your job too! :P

You will have stepped over to the dark side after you buy a KA Dragunov, but not before doing a full wood job on mine for free.

Your hair will turn grey. Your sarcasm shall overcome your wisdom (or delusions). Then you will be on the dark path to replace me.

Aw crap.... hey wait a minute... free?!


Honestly if I could get the money I prob would pick up one of those Dragunov's. But so many more personal favorite guns out there to get first. Hence why the wood kits. Now if only I could get time! >.<


My sarcasm already overcomes my "wisedoms" and my delusions are evident to everyone, I thought.

As for the grey hair, I won't live that long!


Now back to upgrades :D

Just taught that this should be up again....very good post...

There's really no need to bump a sticky.

Good article

Wow. thanks bro. but one question. I'm gonna be makin a silencer for my spring pistol but im not sure if it will decrease the fps or accuracy. I'm also not sure if it will break my gun or not. Can i have some suggestions......?

Save up for a better pistol that actually has thread in the outer barrel, and you can purchase a realistic silencer from our Canadian retailers. Get Age Verified and you will be able to purchase many things including all the guns you want.

Making a silencer will not break your gun, but since it's a springer, your homemade silencer would be the first thing to break. Silencers do not increase or decrease velocity, but if it's a homemade, and you do it wrong, then chances are your bb will get stuck in there.

in reading this thread i have to say thanx you just saved me a shit load of cash. i'm glad i'm reading the threads before asking the same questions over again as a nooob it gets annoying when trying to find good info like this. so thanx again for great solid info

Outstanding Thread Sir.
Stock TM m733
after reading this thread a 380$ parts order has been boiled down to
1 spring guide, 1 Modify S100 spring (for around 370 fps) & 1 set of Version 2 gearbox Bushings (Modify 6mm Bearing Bushings), G&P AEG Grease Set & 1 set of 24 Shims (I remeber reading that shimming and properly Greasing your Gear box, Cylinder and Orings is a dam good idea)... 84$ from Duy plus shipping.. NICE
(compaired to my 486FPS VSR10 just under $400 (including shipping costs) in internal parts Wooof)
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU

PS PLus I have a SystemA 455mm 6.04 AEG (currently under going testing in the VSR) & a Promethius 603. 433mm I can drop in at no extra cost.

great read thanks.

valuable and very informative info here, if its your first aeg or a real gun head the advice , given here

Armoredshell

Dont you think this sticky should be updated ?
I think is a great post, but lots of things have changed since it was written almost 10 years ago.

And here I though Greylocks was back on the scene.

:)
 

Great post

increasing GBB recoil ???
 

Why the heck are these companies promoting recoil boost kits? Is it more fun to get more recoil and suffer accuracy?

I would prefer lower or no recoil on my GBB M4 like my AEG.

I am sure GBB makers can manufacture GBB guns to kick as hard as a real steel rifle and more. But shooting a plastic 6mm BB....

RA-TECH HOW TO INCREASE WE AK RECOIL POWER.mpg - YouTube

http://popularairsoft.com/news/how-i...b-recoil-power

When you say upgrading to a longer barrel could be complicated what do you mean? Because I went from a 350mm to a 550mm and just upgraded to a non ported cylinder, is there anything im missing?