Puzzling FPS readings on TM P226
 

As I've posted a few times in the past, I've got an upgraded TM P226.

These are the current upgrades:

Creation metal slide and outer barrel and enhanced spring, and piston head
Guarder steel spring guide
Guarder enhanced nozzle
Nineball 6.03 tightbore inner barrel

I'm running this gun on propane. It's a horrid gas hog, getting barely a mag's worth of shots on one complete fill.

I was running it though my new chrony today, and was surprised to see I was barely breaking 250 fps with it. My average velocity with 10 shots turned out to be 246.5 fps. I find this horribly slow for a gun running on propane. It's kick on each shot is pretty powerful and much more pronounced than my other guns, and gave me the impression that this gun was a lot more powerful (mistake on my part). Now that I have solid number, it seems like the muzzle velocity is way too low for this gun.

By comparison, my KSC Glock 17 (with a G&P metal slide & outer barrel, 150% reciol spring and Madbull 6.03 tightbore) is pretty steady with an average of 305 fps. My KJW M9 (stock except for a 150% recoil spring) is also pretty consistent with an average of 312.8 fps. These guns both use propane. My WA 92FS gives me a consistent 225 (using duster). My WA 1911 averages 218.9 on duster as well.

All guns were tested using MetalTech .20g BBs, which are quality BBs. I also tested the P226 with KSC Perfect .20g just to make sure, and results were consistent.

So it seems my 226 is seriously underpowered. Any ideas as to what could be causing this?

i have the same gun and i have done nothing to it and i am having the same readings... the gun is all stock and the fastest shot i got off was around 280. I am running off propain as well...

I'm considering returning the gun to its stock form so I can chrony it and see what it's like and see how the "upgrades" have affected it. If I can't get this thing up to at least the same levels of performance of my other GBB pistols, I may just go back to stock and sell it then get a KJW P226 instead. I hear that the Creation metal slide may fit work on the KJW, so I can at least have trademarks on the slide.

My TM P226 stock, using .20 KSC Perfect BBs and Madbull chrony: 280fps.


Maybe you need those hi-flow valves for better fps with the metal slide and springs?

I was thinking of high-flow valves as well, but I'm barely able to shoot a full mag of BBs on what I consider to be overfilling the mag (till propane squirts out - about 12 seconds). I'll be lucky to get 10-15 shots off per mag with those valves.

Now that you have a chrony, you can go step by step with your upgrade and test the pistol after each new part is installed. Maybe you'll find where the problem lies.

Yeah, that's a good thing, I guess. Still means I have to tear into the gun again, which I wasn hoping I wouldn't have to. Oh well. I'll see how it goes. If I can't get this thing up to par, then it will be returning to stock form and finding its way onto the ASC classified for sale or trade towards a KJW instead.

I'm starting to have a serious dislike for TM guns. They may look flawless, but they seems to be nothing but trouble, at least for me.

Out of curiousity, anyone know whether TM p226 internals are compatible with KJW's version?

I have a KJW p226 and was considering upgrading the spring, spring guide and high-flow valve, but those parts are only available for the TM.

Crunch, I'm assuming it's because of the metal slide. My stock KJW P229 shoots 270, so that FPS isn't that strange.

thats really weird, I had a TM P226 with metal slide and enhanced recoil spring, thats it. With BB Bastard .20's and propane I chronied 370-390fps in late summer weather (below 20'C.)

Try it with a brand new bottle of propane, also make sure you really warm the mags up after filling

Mine was test fired indoors at a temperature of about 20 C, no hopup, and that's all I could get out of it. That's pretty sad performance IMO. It should be able to shoot a lot harder than that. I'd be happy in teh 280-ish range, but I was really hoping that this gun would turn into my 'powehouse' in the 340-ish range. Doesn't look like I'll be able to get that out of this gun.

It's a new propane cannister (just cracked it open to fill the gun), and left the mags cool about 5 mins before shooting.

Why did you think it was going to be your "powerhouse"? Because of the tightbore? You don't really have any other performance-enhancing parts.

Why do you want a pistol that shoots 340 to boot? Also wait until your playing in Mid August when it's 30+ on Propane..you'll get your FPS boost. I know my stock P226 shoots a consistent 300 +/- a few fps on propane.

Well, the other performance enhancing parts just made the gun worse. The new airseal chamber caused problems. The enhanced hammer spring caused the mag to empty of gas in less than 10 shots. The Guarder enhanced nozzle does nothing (as far as I can tell). Ditto for the new piston head too.

This was to be an upgrade platform, but seems that every new part I've added to it deteriorates its performance that much more. high flow mag valves and an internal rocket valve should increase performance, but I'd like to be able to fire off a full mag worth of BBs on one fill. I'm barely getting that out of the gun now. With anything high-flow in there, that will increase gas consumption even more.

Get a KJW :D.

Haven't had a problem with mine. Not one jam, never double loads or no-loads, locks back every time the mag is empty :D
And I've fired a couple hundred rounds through it. Maybe 500-600. I really have no idea though.

The mags are a bit finicky, but as long as you keep gas in them they're fine.

I hear the new generation KJW P226 accepts TM mags. I'm seriously considering it. If I can't get this bitch up to at least 280 fps, it's gone and a KJW will take its place. My KJW M9 is a kickass pistol in terms of power and accuracy. If I could get that performance out of my 226, I'd be happier than Michael Jackson in a daycare centre for boys.

That's.......great.....

Yeah that TM with upgrades has got to have cost a pretty penny eh? Ouch.

I replace the after-market recoil spring and spring guide with stock ones, and now registering in the 255-270 range. Reinstalled the "upgrade" parts and was back down in the same 245-ish performance. Will keep messing with it to see what I can come up with.

OK, there's something really wrong here. I reverted the gun to it's 100% stock form with all stock parts. It's shooting between 210 and 220 on propane. I'm starting to get really pissed off with this gun.

Maybe the magazine is the problem? Do you have more than one?

2 mags, same results with both... Tried interchanging the Guarder enhanced nozzle for the stock one back and forth too. Makes no difference whatsoever.

I went over all the internals and found that the Creation piston was a touch tight in the nozzle assembly. It moved well, but had a bit too much resistence. So I removed the piston head o-ring and hit the groove with a file to wear it down a bit until the piston head moved more freely in the nozzle.

I also managed to get the King Arms airseal chamber installed and working properly. It seems that the combination of the tight piston head and the tight seal of the chamber rubber was causing the nozzle jamming problems I had when I originally installed it. Now it seems to be working without a problem

So I fired off a full mag of 25 rounds through the chrony with no hopup. The gun is still a gas hog, as I had enough gas left afterwards to fire off 4 more shots after all BBs were fired. But the numbers are far better this time.

263.7
262.5
264.5
266.9
268.9
265.3
269.8
263.3
266.9
266.9
262.1
273.3
271.3
276.3
257.4
254.1
288.5
288.1
261.7
261.1
257.1
260.9
266.3
260.9
261.1

AVERAGE 266.8

That's an improvement over the first numbers I got. It's not quite as disappointing as earlier results. Still don't know why the gun was shooting so low in its stock form though. I should have been pulling numbers closer to 300 firing that gun stock on propane. But at least this is an improvement. Going to try again with the stiffer recoil spring and see if that makes a difference.

Also, if anyone has any ideas as to why the gun is such a gas hog, I'm all ears....

I usually get about 2 to 2 1/2 mags of gas out of my P226, and my last chrony on it was at 395.

What are all the internals you've done? Brand

The upgrades are all listed in my original post in this thread. The only difference is I've reverted to using the stock recoil spring and guide, and installed a King Arms airseal chamber. It's just a crazy gas hog now with the upgrades.

And previously, with its previous stock slide (had a problem, the seller replaced the entire top slide assembly with a new one) I would easily get 2 mags on one fill of propane. When I received the replacement slide, I didn't try the gun. I just transferred the internals into the new metal slide.

I found when I initially did just my creation slide that I was getting less shots per mag fill, then after I did my internals it returned to the 2+ mags.

What did you do in terms of internals to get that result? Other than the piston and nozzle, the gas internals are stock. I tried installing a stiffer hammer spring, but all that managed to to is make the gun kick like nuts and lower me down to about 10 shots per gas fill.

I just chronied my KJW M9 using Bastard .28g, and it's shooting on average 272. Sucks that the P226 can't even beat that with .20s. I'm not looking for crazy numbers like 395, but I'd like to get it to actually shoot where it SHOULD and not be such a gas hog.

Basically everything but the little screw by the valve lol.

Between Jugglez and Illusion they sent me every part available for the internal.

Any chance you could list out at least the key parts and brands so that I may be able to find them?

Yea I'll sit down tomorrow and go through the packages I still have and my old pm's for them and list them for you.

Mostly firefly and nineball parts.

Thanks. Much appreciated. As I stated above, I want this gun to be my powerhouse gun. I bought it for that very purpose. I love shooting it, but its performance just blows right now. And the gas consumption it nuts. It would be my prize gun if it would just work right. :S

On the plus side, it kicks like a mule. To date, the blowback gun with the most recoil I'd fired was my Beretta PX4 Storm CO2 pellet gun. The 226 easily matches it. But I think the problem may be that too much gas is somehow getting to the blowback chamber, and not enough making it through to shoot the BB.

Hey Bloodsport, any luck in finding any of that info?

i seriously think you have a faulty TM P226 to begin with, you mentioned before you bought the gun second hand. Who knows what the P226 has been through before it exchanged hands. Or it may just be a lemon. My TM and KJ P226 have always been shooting hard.

I didn't buy the gun used. The gun was bought brand new. And the entire upper (slide and internals) was replaced with brand new, out of the box, unused TM after the inner rail (that engages the slide catch) got smashed up after 5 mags of shots.

uhmm what do you mean by "no hopup" did you remove it??

As in, with hopup setting completely turned off to get maximum fps. I know that without the seal of hopup rubber, it wouldn't shoot right.

hey sorry for the delay, info sent in a pm.

*edit*
should put this here for others looking to do the same, I might have missed a part as it was almost 2 years ago now that I put most of these in.

Creation Metal Slide & outer barrel
Action Metal Frame
Firefly Hop Up Bucking
NINB BALL Tune-up Complete Set
NINE BALL Dyna-Piston Head
Guarder Enhanced Valve Blocker
NINE BALL Air Seal Chamber Packing
Firefly Rocket Valve
NINE BALL Hammer Spring
PROUD Enhanced Recoil Spring
Guarder Enhanced Loading Muzzle
Houge Grips

then I added a meat masher for those times when I run out of gas and ammo :)