high speed vs high torque
 

I've been researching information to find out which is the ultimate motor for high speed(ROF).

Why is it that my friends systema motor seems to have high torque for big springs and decent ROF where mine has a lower torque but high end ROF?... Are there different systema motors? If so does anyone know where I could find out all the names of the different systema motors?

two types: systema turbo http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1843
"For those of you who seek for ultra-high rate of fire performance, Systema has the answer, with the release of this TURBO motor which delivers 30 revolutions per second (which far surpasses the current performance of the Marui EG1000)."



systema magnum http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1842
"In the past, super high speed and ultra high torque were complimentary features that you could not find in a single motor. You could either get a high speed motor, or a high torque motor. Recognizing a major need for a motor that could provide both, Systema embarked on a year long design that finally brings both these features in one package. Employing a break-through design, the new motor, called the MAGNUM, will be equally at home in high-speed or high-torque setup, while beating the performance of all previous generation motors - even those specifically tuned for high-torque or high-speed applications.


Each has 3 different lengths: short, medium, long

This page at the bottom lists some systema motors even the old discontinued ones. http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...ceSearchResult
use "systema motor" as search term for that site

thanks that helps alot..

And the turbo is a lot higher torque than any cheaper Classic Army high speed. Its on average more than double the price, but totally worth it. If its an indoor gun, you can compromise and get the CA, but for outdoor the CA just cant turn heavier springs.

Systema. No compromise.

you may also search for Guarder infinite torque-up motor that is a bit cheaper than Systema, but a bit less of torque

lets say one is trying to turn over a SP140 spring... the hummer 1300 turns it over with ease yet it does'nt have a good ROF. So do you think the systema turbo will be able to turn it over being that it is a motor designed for high end, not so much in torque? Or is the Systema magnum going to be the answer?

I was wondering about motors as well. I have a CA M15A4 rifle. I've upgraded all the internals except the gears with System parts, and upgraded the spring to a Prometheus MS110SP. The motor is the stock Classic Army motor.

My rate of fire is about the same as it was before at about 12 bb/s. I'd like to increase that a bit, but not drastically. I know a 9.6V battery of higher capacity would do that (and have one on order). But I would also like to increase the response time from when my trigger is pulled to the time it fires. I was thinking that a high torque motor would be able to cock the spring a lot easier and possibly get me a higher rof as well in the process.

So, am I correct about this? Would a high torque motor increase firing response and only slightly increase my rof? I don't want my gun turning into a BB hose that empties a midcap in 3 seconds, and I fear that's what I high speed motor would do.

A bigger battery (voltage and/or mAh) will help your trigger response Crunch.

what I do, but maybe not the best, is having a Systema M100(little less fps than Prom ms110sp), 8.4v 3300/3700 mah and Guarder Hi-torque motor. It has a ROF much too high but good response. With the Hi-torque gears coming, it will lower the Rof and increase response time. With my 3300/3700 mah, the batt will last longer. It's what I wanted. No need of 9.6v

I got a 170 spring in my mp5k. Before I got a guarder motor in there semi auto would constantly jam up. Now it's normal and the ROF is up as well.

The guarder motor was half the price of the systema as well.

The battery I'm currently using in my rifle is an 8.4V 2500 mAh. It performs well and have no real complaints. The 2 batteries I ordered are 9.6V 3300mAh. Both the extra voltage and capacity should help out somewhat. I know the capacity is only 800 mAh more, so that won't do a whole lot, but I think that should help, especially with the higher voltage.

Lately I've realized how fast the trigger response is on my RS Type 56. Even with my 8.4V 1500 mAh battery, trigger response is almost instantaneous. I don't even hear the damn motor winding up before the shot. When I tried connecting my C8's 9.6V 2000 mAh battery, trigger time was even quicker, and rof increased nicely from about 12 bb/s to 19 bb/s. I would love to be able to get both that kind of response (not likely) and rof out of my M15.

But I think that what you suggested, Splashx, makes sense... a kickass high torque motor with high torque gears would increase the initial torque and response time, while keeping the rof reasonable too.

Just another thing - half-tooth pistons. If I WERE to install just a high torque motor, would a half-tooth piston actually work with stock gears? IN theory (assuming it could be installed with standard gears), would that effectively decrease my rate of fire, theoretically by 1/2?

A half-tooth piston just has half-width teeth... it shouldn't affect your ROF at all.

Really? I was under the impression that it had 1/2 the number of teeth, which would make it cycle at 1/2 the speed. I could be wrong though, and this is why I'm asking, since all of you know more about this stuff than I do...

it's not the 1/2 half of the teeth, but 1/2 (half) the larger of the teeth
You won't need half teeth piston with motor or torque-up gears, only infinite/super torque-up gears on high powered aegs

EDIT : I think we're getting away of current thread's subject :P

Thanks for all the info. Gives me some stuff to think about and consider. My new batteries were shipped yesterday, so if customs don't decide to hang on to my package for a while, I'll have it by Monday. I'll see how the heavier batteries perform and make a decision on the next step (if any) based on that.

Just wait for the 9.6 to come in.. if you have a systema motor pulling a 110 is more then enough... you will be surprised on your rof with the 9.6... once you have that battery you will complete the circuit for reliability...Right now your 8.4 battery is stressing too much but your motor demands motor power.

Our company offer the high torque and the high speed motors for the chinese mainland and the overseas.

the test as follow:
http://botu.bokee.com/photodata2/200...14998015_h.jpg

ok with research i hae found this thins is not my own will put link at bottom as well and am including author as well this is the best discription of what the gears do .. Jenis - jenis Gear AEG


by Berny » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:01 pm

Helical Gear Set: The teeth that connect the sector gear and the spur gear are cut at an angle. This causes less stress on any one tooth because it has more teeth touching and spinning is not in an outward direction but into the gearbox. There is one exception to the helical gear set. You muct use a particular piston. The bevel gear has the teeth all the way around. The side of the gear that allows the piston to fire forward has one half the side of the teeth cut. So you have to use a piston that also has half the side of the teeth cut. The Helical Gear Set comes with the piston.

All Helical Gear Set: Has teeth cut at an angle on all of the gears. Also the bevel gear has the smooth side so it can be used with the original piston.

Flat Gear Set: Is cut with the original specs. These gears are made out of a denser metal and Teflon treated like the other gears.

High Speed Gear: Increases the rate of fire. Do not use a spring stiffer than M100. This gear also gives lower delay time between trigger pull and fire.

Standard Gear: Cut to original specs. Recommended to use a M120 or less due to the strain on the motor.

Torque Up Gear: Designed to be used with a M130 to M140 spring. All of the torque up gears will slow the rate of fire a little but reduce the strain on the motor caused by the gear. The greater the torque up the slower the rate of fire.

Super Torque Up: Designed to be used with a M140 to M150 spring.

Ultra Torque Up: Designed to be used with a M150 to M160 spring.

Infinite Torque Up: Designed to be used with a M160 to M200 spring.

Mudah2xan bisa dijadikan referensi
Berny
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Just my two cents.

Be careful going for a high speed setup. It can be very costly, and that's not even towards the end. Just as a personal reference, I thought that you could introduce a high speed motor into a stock gun. Do not do this. You'll hate yourself for it. I'm not sure if high torque requires the same things yet, haven't delved into it very far yet, but high speed requires that you basically revamp your gearbox.

One of the first things I noticed that needed to be replaced was the shims. Unless of course you have metal shims already, I wouldn't be too worried. One of the things with a high speed that I'm aware of, is that you need a reinforced mechbox, preferably 7mm, or 8mm. Reason being that because your ROF is so much higher, your gearbox is functioning that much faster, and you could potentially crack your gearbox, and obviously that's a boo-boo. I could be wrong on this one, but you also need to upgrade your bushings to solid bushing fo the appropriate mm (7mm solid bushing if you havea 7mm reinforced gearbox, etc). Bearing bushings are apparently bad idea, I'd need confirmation on that though.

You'll also need to replace your cylinder and piston. A smoother cylinder results in less friction with your piston, which results in less heat, which results in less problems. From what I know, stock cylinders are not the best things you could have. A new piston is a must. I saw an example of someone who used a high speed motor without changing to full-metal teeth, and the teeth on his stock piston were chewed to pieces. All your other lovely parts also must be replaced with metal parts, if you haven't already. This means your spring guide, cylinder head, and air nozzle. You may also need to downgrade your spring. My personal opinion would be to go for a S100/M100 spring. You can't go above that, I'm not sure what the direct consequence is of going above that, maybe someone else can fill you in on it, but just don't do it. Going to a S90 or M90 may benefit you more, not sure though. You'll also need a new tappet plate, especially if yours in just a stock plastic one. Even if it's a stock metal one, I'd recommend upgrading it just in case. I'd also recommend a sorbo pad. Your gearbox won't suffer as much of a beating with one. You'll also need high speed gears, obviously. Stock gears just won't cut it. I'm surprised I didn't shred my gears when I put my high speed motor in.

Like I said, I'm not sure if high-torque is this high maintenance early on, but high speed, from what I understand, will require you to upgrade everything accordingly before you can even think about fielding it. Also, high speed = less accuracy. So unless you play indoors all the time, I'd suggest not going high speed. You'll just end up going through an entire mag trying to get a hit on someone, and then maybe not even hitting them. Just for the love of God, if you are going to go high speed, make sure you're completely fitted for it, and not half-way upgraded. I'd hate to see you come back asking how to fix something resulting from not being properly upgraded :(