HOT GAME - OPINIONS PLEASE
 

I am curious what the community thinks about attending a "hot" game.

I am thinking anything up to 490 to avoid going over 500FPS

My reasoning here is that some games are less than realistic from a tactical perspective because people are doing things they would never do if they knew they were going to get really hurt i.e.:

Peek a boo
Long runs across open ground with no supporting fire
Rambo charges

etc


Let er rip....

I have often thought this would be an interesting thing to try...with the right group of people.

Ld

Yepper and got the chance to play at one indoor game before Japan's fps/joules law kicked in.

One word......

SCREW ME SIDEWAYS THAT HURTS A LOT!

Agreed with Lawdog... I wouldn't want to play with just anybody. Location would be a contributing factor - playing at a field where the standard engagement range is under 100ft due to layout and terrain would probably not tickle.

Bring on the pain baby! I'm in!

Are we going back to the AMC days again.........Nah too expensive, I remember in those days I would be going through at least 6 - 7 mechbox every four months Using M150 for indoor

Hell Yes

I think theres a difference between playin a "hot" game and playing to inflict pain. There's a certain level which I don't mind having a hot gun pointed at me. However. When Engagements start getting close quartered, 490FPS is gonna hurt like a royal SOB. Thats were secondaries should definatly be used.

You have to remember with this is that people play airsoft for fun. Not to go out and get hurt (unless you have a fetish for that stuff.

Another thing is realism relies on who you play with. If you play with a bunch of guys who act like paintballers trying to charge across the field firing two guns at everything that twitches then yeah it's gonna suck if you want sim-like play. However if you play with teams that actually like sim's and conducting themselves as a combat-like unit then your gonna have fun.

id like to do it, but youd need the right guys. guys that arent out there to hurt you, but out there for the same reason you are. i find i do stuff that i wouldnt normally do because im not afraid of getting hit, or i know that i can dodge the rounds.

Same here.

No fear No fun!

490 fps wouldn't hurt too much. I would be more worried about mechbox failure.

Here's where real fun is :)
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....light=hardball

If I had the gun for it I'd like to try it. Although, it would probably be better to try a game at 450fps first and see whether more or less fps is desired/safe.
What about sniping weapons? What kind of muzzle velocity restrictions would you want on those?

As long as I had proper full face protection. BRING IT ON!!!!!

Nice find! That thread brings up some more issues with airsoft as I was thinking, like being able to not only see and perhaps dodge the BB, but also not being able to track back to the shooter.

So far the caveats seem to be:

Gaming with folks you trust
Proper gear

Never thought about mechbox wear and tear, tho those with PTWs shouldn't have that issue...

I like the idea, in the right place with the right people.

I've always thought responsible snipers should be allowed
a much greater fps advantage than 50fps over an auto AEG,
so this would be an interesting opportunity.

Should be fine for those with spring/gas bolt actions too. Hrmm... Escort guns also come to mind, along with the new WA M4.

BT, excessive wear and tear always plagues airsoft population in coutries with high FPS limit. People live with that by swaping pretty much everything right out of the box. That's what happens back home. Limits go up to around 550FPS there. Another thing that players from old country implemented is special rules for support weapons. LMG's have higher minimum engagement distance and higher FPS than regular AEG's.
I'm not sure about V2 boxes but V3 CA and VFC shells can handle 450 no problem.

It all comes down to trust. Trusting the other guys not to blind fire or hose. If this type of game were to happen, I'd like to see semi only at least for the first part of the day and evaluate from there. Obviously if you're using LMG's then there would be an exception. Full face protection or at least a mouthguard should be required as well. Anyone else agree?

I agree with the semi only for the first bit.

If the point of the hot guns was to make people act more realistically, maybe there should be a real cap limit as well?

If the game was with people I trust, I feel that face protection should be optional, but strongly recommended.

If there was such a game in my area, I'd be up for it.

EDIT: A softer shooting secondary should also be required, for use in close quarters (moving from the outside in to sweep a building).

Yup, thought about it too, again, with the right people and not indoors. Real load outs, hot guns, MilSim... let's see if we can make something happen this summer.

i would just use a Tanaka Kar98k, since it shoots over 450 on a warm day, but use heavy BBs, like .30 or .34 (i think Bastard said they were going to make some). god i cant wait till that happens and i get my mauser.

Hey wait a second
 

This smells of "Elitism" , what if someone can't afford to upgrade their guns to this level, what if they can't afford the required gear.. Is it fair to exclude them?

Why can't we all just play to the lowest common denominator?

( by the way... I'm all for it, make it so )

dont listen to ze germans go allies! (this coming from a person of kraut heritage too:D)

on the subject of fps if it was handled properly id be all for it like others said maybe semi to start see how it goes then maybe go full auto

Nobody is excluding anybody for having a weapon that shoots lower - we have people now running stock TMs and CAs playing with others running right at 400. I see this as simply another set of game and safety rules set by the host. (Can't see smileys right now at work - apologies if I miss sarcasm here.)

If you want pain, get some jumpercables to a car battery and gently caress your nipples.

As for a 490fps game... It better be a good and honest group of people. Too many new players coming to games with hot guns and cheating too... quite sad to see those ex-paintball players on the field

I played at QuickPass 3 last summer with my BA at 550 fps.

I didn't hear a single complain about it. In the end, it all comes down to know both your people and your guns.

Actually, I had a few guys lining-up behind my rifle to try it after the game...:P

I am all for it. Realistic respawns are a must too. A single rifleman does not POP out of no where at war. Need at least 4-5 guys, maybe more.

Unless, unless it's absolute chaos!!!!

But yes, realistic spawns would be lovely.

"Gaming with folks you trust
Proper gear"

there are lots of guy old and new going to games and not calling there hits. it does not only discourage me from going out to games now but discourages me from taking part in this sport.
i'am all for 490 fps or higher. my thought is if it hurts more people call there hits so it is not followed up with another 10 rds ect.

for the people that have a hard time calling out they they are hit. i have no problem unloading on you until you do so. it might hurt but in the end its your reputation at stake, and people talk and you make a name for your self.
if people want to play like they are unstoppable they should stick to computer games with cheats.

this is sport for all not just one person. thinking so will only ruin it for every one and you may find this sport with out the older generation playing if it keeps on happening. sorry for my rant. if this is going to happen it should be equal for every one of course.

I might be interested in a high fps game as long as I had proper equipment and I was playing with people who aren't douches. I'd also want to use realcaps only and have it very strictly enforced. I can't count the number of games I've been too that advertise an ammo limit and yet I still see people running around with twin high-caps.

I think one of the best arguments for lower FPS limits is exactly because you can't always guarantee you won't get a fucker who will unload 100+ rounds in your face at close range. A jackass could cause a lot of damage at that range.

Im in.. It would have to be VIP only, semi or VERY short bursts only, ful lface id say leave it up to the player, wear a mouthguard for sure..

Can guarantee there wouldnt be any cheating in this game.. who wouldnt feel it hit them at 500fps

i'll sweep in with the full face mask rule on this one, though like any game it's players own descrepency to wear whatever the heck they want.
on the flip side, i'd be all for a high fps game, and to add to comments already made, only with those I know / trust / or are known to be stand-up players..

what I've noticed playing airsoft was that most engagements occur on the gun's maximum range, thus the BBs are basically harmless even if the players are naked.

If the FPS is increased, only the maximum engagement distance is increased,

Id have to say i would play a high fps game as well with people i trust and the right equipment. i think at 490 fps i would want atleast a mouth guard if not a face mask.

I dont exactly like mouth guards, but in a game that would be at such a high fps, even with the right people I would at least get a mouth guard, I wouldent push for the facemask though... I used a full face mask for my first 2 or 3 games and I hated it... kept fogging up, hard to communicate with other players.... not comfy.

I'd play but my concerns are a blend of everyone elses.

Physics wise, it's not making all that much difference upping the FPS by 100 with the same bb's right? So serious injuries and such will be pretty much the same.

But douchey close rangeness is my prime concern. I've taken some auto bursts from point blank before and damn if the injuries didn't last for weeks and actually leave some scars.

There's always the spook factor too. Seems I can't be my quick, sneaky, unexpected self without getting a shot to the head by someone with an itchy trigger finger. If I pop up on someone unnexpectedly it seems I scare them and they shoot first, appologize and ask questions later. That or are so despirate to shoot me, I take like 50 in the stomach before they're satisfied. This will be less pretty than it already was with higher FPS's.

Secondaries should be a MUST though. No execptions. No single shot compensation. New gun entirely. Use at closer range manditory. If you don't have it drawn, you don't shoot. Doing so anyway would make you a flaming piece of shit.

490 fps with realcaps ,I think would change the game play for the better.I'm all in. Mouth guards ??? :rolleyes: How about just a good dental plan.

i agree with the trust aspect previously mentioned, and the fact that people will generaly avoid closer range engagements,, but certain rules would have to be adhered to strictly, like rules covering what should happen when the game gets close.

ive played cqb a bit and usually min distance rules are ignored after a few close encounters and shots are taken, but if everything is laid out before hand it shouldnt be too much problem for serious players to deal with errant shots,, accidents happen.

As stated several times, you'd need the right guys for that game. In most cases, people are motivated enough to use proper tactics to avoid being hit even if it's mild pain; however, the fear of not knowing how much a 490fps is going to hurt will REALLY motivate a team to play their best.

In short, it really adds to the realism but just because everyone is 18+ doesn't mean their not out to cause pain instead of having fun. Hell, you might even be able to find a younger person who would be able to play this (barring people would let him play, etc.)

Or simply CoD 4 without cheats...:smile:

Nice! I'd love to give it a shot.

I suppose it might also depend on the venue. At a place like maybe the LZ or a wodded field (ala - old plantation, maybe deadlands) I would be all for it, but at a field like FR, not so much, since engagement distances are WAY shorter than at most outdoor fields.

No, there are cheaters even in the 500+ fps games. I was talking to a friend of my father who used to play in Taiwan. In his experience, upping the fps was like an arms race to keep the other person honest by drawing blood. He made it sound like it was tit-for-tat and rather less than friendly.

But since we'd be going into the higher fps with a community that's predominantly honest, and that this type of game would start with a very controlled membership, we shouldn't have the same problems.

Hell's yeah, me and the trauma bag would be there lol

Yep I would do it for sure

I would only do it if I knew everyone on the field was useing star realcap mags, I dont trust that someone will load only 30 bbs into his mag when he could put 60-110

I don't see the need for it unless you're playing in an open field. I have no problem getting hits with a stock gun, and see no need for any upgrades. If you need to upgrade your aeg to get leverage on the opposition, you just suck :P

As far as a high fps game goes, invite only for sure.

My 2 cents.

I already gave my opinion.

But I think that having "longer ranged" rifles having a higer FPS would make more sense.

Because a MP5 having the same range and accuracy as a SR-25 is not realistic at all.

AND I am heading to play sniper role.

50 fps is not making enought difference to be used properly. It gives what? 20 feet increased range? A normal man running will clear that distance under 1 second.

Give it AEGs 400fps, semi only 480 BA 550 fps. Already, there is enought difference to fear the longer ranges weapons, while be able to tacticise more when using shorter arms.

I agree with Lawdog aswell. Its more about common sense. Have a mercy rule set inplace, as well as head/face protection. Also people gotta realize that if the only give their face to shoot at you...thats where they are gonna get hit. Also, if people shoot at you in the face, they better realize they'll be recieving the same treatment. Maybe close combat mirrors may come in handy.

I've been to 2 outdoor games in HK with field MINIMUMS of 450. I don't recall the field limit or if their even was one.

People play differently when their is the potential for serious harm or injury on the line.

I'd be in, but i'd only be there if it was invite only and there were strict rules, and i mean the fear of Thors hammer bashing down on you if you fuck up either engagement distances etc....

Also as far as protection goes...i'd assume that everyone comming would be smart enough to figure out what kind of protection they wanted...each can take his/her own risks, but understand what they are getting into...

Also a chrony, just to know what we are all actually doing...

Other than that i think as long as the venue is fairly large so we aren't talking FIBUA type ranges then we'd all be fine. Sidearms would be a requirement in my opinion.

I'd definitely wear extra protection for this type of game. It sucks enough getting hit in less-protected areas at lower FPS rates, nevermind 500FPS. I think there would have to be very tight safety restrictions. Airsoft is generally safe but when additional risks are being taken, additional protection should be too.

I think that is the point of Blackthorne's game idea.

BTW, you guys are making too much of it. I've been playing for years against guys with guns shooting 450+ (full-auto) and bolt action guns at 600++. No problems to report here, in fact, the most nasty injuries came at close quarters from stock guns and GBBs, not the upgraded ones at long range.

Good...

So I can finish my 650fps beast and have a place to play...

I agree with you. so long as their is some way to punish people who are being asshats or prevent them from playing.

I've been hit with airguns at those high FPS games and the ranges were so great that they didn't hurt that much more than a normal game.

What high FPS games generally do IMO is increase engagement range in open / broken fields. I would avoid a skirmish in an urban environment at high FPS probably not a problem in Canada.

I wouldn't see a problem as long as everyone attending the event is competent. I think a mercy rule would have to be in effect, though - that or not have any exposed skin for those close encounters.

IN
 

BT,

You hit the nail on the head, realism=fear of getting hurt, testing skills at greater ranges and actually taking advantage of the camo you wear.

I am up for a game like this no problem at all, I never complain about someone with a hard hitting "hot" gun I could not care less. I play not to get hit regardless of shooting speed. Who will pay are the cheaters who think they are bullet proof and raise these "pain" concerns. Don't get hit, then it does not hurt, simple! If you are hit put your hands in the air, fast, and people will not continue to shoot at you. If you contemplate being hit, as I have seen many do, too bad for you.

Some have these skills, others do not. The ones that don't are the ones who will bitch and should not be attending a game like this anyways.

These type of games are not CQB.
I hear people talking about getting full auto at close range, when does this happen, its never happened to me and I play alot of outdoor games. One to 2 extra BB's maybe but I have never heard of someone just emptying a full mag into someone at close range. The lesson you should take away from that situation is that it hurts. Don't let anyone ever get that close again and learn from your mistake.

MD

In my opinion raising the FPS won’t change things, much if at all, the people who will walk upright/talking loud in the open/cover field will do the same thing (just at longer distance).
The only way to get people to play ‘milsim’ style is to take them out of the game for longer periods of time (i.e. 1-2 hour respawn time, instead of the 10 min or 4 ‘dead’ player limit).
Again in my opinion we should have a game that is more along those lines, rather then jumping the FPS limit, and see if that will make ‘milsim’ games more realistic.

The problem is that I would not go to an event, paying 30$ and spend most of my time waiting to respawn.

Plus, as soon as one side would get the advantage, the game would be set. No chance to turn around. Most people would see this and call out right away.

Then learn sneaking techniques, crawling/monkey crawl/ghost walk/etc, so you don’t die fast (plus choose your squad carefully). This will make the CO setup a strong defensive plan, productive communication between players, if not have a ‘troop reinforcement’ where all the dead players rush their base to take it back (if that doesn’t work then call in artillery to clear the base).

If you want to respawn, in short time, and shoot your high cap till your mag brakes then stick to video games (COD, DOD, BF) or ‘Run-N-Gun’ games. If you want as close to a real military game, as close as the average person can host/play, then attend a milsim game. *I’m not talking to any one person, I’m just trying to make a point*

have you tried OPEN fps? here in the philippines we range up to 660 fps no sniper weapon. all our guns here range up to 500 to 550fps. it really hurts. we have no choice because of the ZOMBIE. 490 fps is ok for us. proper set up shims,bushing and sp130 its ok.

Because of the Zombie? whats that!? lol

Also, our guns usually cap out around 500fps because of firearm regulations. 500fps classifies a gun as a firearm and follows all regulations concerning firearms. (licensing, registration etc).

I don't like the hot gun guys because they're all into dope now.

It's the polls that the bots are sniffing out, happens every time. Kind of funny though they had the special on last night about the counterfeit drug trade on.

OK here are my thoughts on this so called "hot game". It seems like a bit of a waste unless you have one of the near fabled PTWs that swaps springs out at will to adjust velocity for the average person build a special rig to get in on one game.

I think this is being set up as a best case scenario type of situation where all the players turn up with the same velocity; all are fully professional and adhere to the rules of engagement without question. Reality to me normally turns up as a mix of Murphy's Law and the lowest common denominator.

Pretty sure zombie = cheater.

I actually only used a highcap in an indoor game, and thrown it away because it was jamming all the time.

I don't think you got my point.

Having a 1 hour respawn would be exactly like doing an all-day skirmish even.

As soon as 2-3 man fall from enemy fire, the whole squad is bound to die. We are talking about equally trained teams. At this point, numbers do a lot. If the whole team gets raped, it is a mather of 20 mins to cap all the objectives.

As for crawling, I managed to get under 10' from 5 guys, carring my L96 in the woods, without a guillie.

I am all about realism and all, but we don't have rifles capable of nailing a quarter at 100'. Most AEGs can't get past 150', and that while lobbing. Pushing the FPS limit higher helps a little with that, but still, we are using ''toys'' compared to the real firearms. We have to adapt the rules accordingly.

And Airstrikes are usually very baddly seen in a game. I remember at QP3, a lot of people quitted at the top of the hill because the whole green team got nuked.

LOL, couldn't help it bud - it was just too appealing a target. Ah the tides of war...

Fuck yeah I'm all for it. I'll jack my M249 Para to 490 and let 'er rip.

If you're worried about pain, go play LaserTag.

The problem there is that the game hosts paused the game and sent ALL the green team there. We had to wait there until the exchange was complete. Most people saw it come 1000 miles. But we had to wait there.

Yeah, and with some of us hounding our CO to nuke the other guys when told "No, its been called a no fire by the admins." And same group of us going "Fuck that, THEY'RE going to do it anyway!" Followed by "No they won't..." 10 minutes later...

"GOD DAMNIT TESTTUBE!"



I still love to bug him on that to this day :D, its FUN!

I really enjoyed the airstrikes and artillery call ins, I think they are a GREAT idea. It would be fun to add some more to them and make them just a little harder to call in, or have objectives that could prevent them for certain areas IE. AA platforms and such.


Nother thing that kind of bugs me, all these "If you don't want pain, go play something else!" I REALLY don't think that the issue with FPS rules and limits has been about pain, if it were we'd probably shoot 300 cause that CAN hurt enough as is. The idea has always been about safety, and statements like these "piss off" or "oh yeah, lite that bitch up at 500FPS" are really the ones that make you think that the only way to enjoy the game idea proposed is invite only. If the game was with safe people that I can trust to not stick that 500fps point blank into my face then I'd be game for the higher FPS. Because at a mill game it sadly happened where one of the players was shot point blank in the face ((also was a blind fire)) from a gun that only fired 350 and that left a good marks that buddy will probably still be displaying.

Hehehe... that sounds like a lot of fun. Here's hoping I get a chance to experiance some air strikes and whatnot.

As for bleeders and wounds and the like, I picked up a nice one at Flag Raiders on saturday. Shot from the second story walkway down into the main floor (drug lab), practically right on top of me, the impact chewed up a nice little part of my face... ironically, I paid for one of those creepy masks through Illusion the day before... if I had to ballpark a speed that gun was shooting, I'd say 350-400.

So I'd certainly +1 the invite only thing if taking damage was a concern, like you said, even lower powered AEGs, and some higher end pistols (a Marushin 8mm was chronied at 345-369 that day in the target range) can cause damage.

Hhehe, nice post Brian - I love how it was completely ignored. Yes, I noticed the tongue in your cheek.

So does this mean I should invest in a red cylinder for my PTW?

I would like to play a game like this with a full mask, but I would also want to see the player list beforehand. There are those in the community, and I'll be the first to say it, even some vets on this board that I would not trust to measure distance properly, or, who I don't trust not to panic fire.

Doc: fill you med bag with iodine and bandaids, and perhaps a set of tweasers for those hard-to-dig-for babies that get buried in cheeks.

Yes, as C.G. first suggested - full masks, no question, or someone's gonna be spittin' chicklets.

There's a talk on this from a guy in SF on the latest airsoft radio podcast.

They run a game that's hot but there's no full auto. Everyone who wants to play gets put through a boot camp prior to getting in and there is no problem.

So in other words no one with eyes that look like softballs wrapped in bacon with a welded to the trigger finger full auto self winding box mag sadistic spring over juiced ROF mindset will be in the hood.

It was spam, and a poor reason for necroing. :P

However, I *have* been wondering about the fate of this thread and the direction it took. Have there been any plans or communication regarding this type of organized game? I understand if I'm simply not in the loop, which is cool, but it would be a shame to have seen this discussion come to nothing in the end.

I'd be in, nothing like a little more realism as long as it can't kill you, mind you obviously with 18+ ppl who are responsible

I hosted a milsim last year that had a set of rules to get rid of the loners and the rambo wannabe. Everyone was forced to stay in a 10man squad that was under the orders of one LT and one Sgt. Everyone was atributed a number and a squad number. For the whole day, we never had any loners. We just had nice, squad manuvers, lot of comunication and a level of realisme rarely seen.

that being said, on a proper field with proper players, I'd play with hot guns no problems.

Would this speed crack protective glasses at close range?

Money spent on good glasses or goggles ,is a very good investment.

Welcome, read the stickys and FAQs and you'll fit in just fine, I'm assuming you had previous airsoft experience so that's a bonus

after that quick thread hijack, has anyone played with 490 or 500 Fps? I read earlier that someone player with pellet guns:rolleyes: but has anyone just player with .2/.3g BBs?

I've played with the M150 in the PTW several times. Many others out west here have as well. Gas M700s at 600+ fps (with 0.20g) are not uncommon either.

It's been my experience over the years that more lost teeth, bleeders and other projectile injuries have occurred from sub-300 fps guns than all others. Due to the numbers of them, plus the inexperience of the player plus poor shooting practices like blind-firing and buck fever.

A hot gun in the hands of an experienced player is by far safer than a stock Marui in the hands of a new guy.

when me and my friends started to play we played with out any kit at all sometime we played with long shirts and jeans and paintball mask and u can feel it when u get hit so there lieing that u did not get hit and u have marks to prove it

i would love to see a hot game and play in one i was thinkin 550BA, 450AEG and 400GBB

I voted "No".

420 fps is what I think should be a max that I will accept. A 490fps AEG with heavy weight bbs(0.28/0.30g) can do alot of damage to both player and equipement. What can happen in a 490fps game is that players will start to pad themselves more which will lessen the fear/pain of getting hit. So, no point in increasing the fps. The risk outweights the assumed realism of higher fps for me.

Almost everyone that said "yes" had also stated that they would go if the roster was carefully screen. When you make this into a private game, you're already choosing the level of players that you're admitting to the game. You don't need to make the fps more than 400 to get a great game when you have high quality players.

Last thing I want is to have to wear a full face mask when I play airsoft. Where's the realism in that? It gets hot and I'm sure I'll have problems with fogging. I'm using an ESS Turbofan goggle right now and I still have fogging problems.

I would definetely be in. Most people are fully kitted anyway. Body hits are usually fine. It just takes the right gear. Perhaps this would be a good winter game because you could wear more layers/thicker clothing and not worry about heat exhaustion.

As for facial protection, definetely wintertime would be the best so face masks, face shields, balaclavas, helmets, etc. would be doable for longer periods of time. I have plans for modifynig a gasmask to rated standards but with built in ammenties instead of actual gas mask function (like multiple computer fans, hydration, radio, etc). so that would work for this type of game.

After this past weekend in PQ, I'm going to have to say that a hot game will have to be INVITE ONLY.

Hell yah, I figure if I can take a simunition round point blank and live to tell the tail I can handle 490 fps easy. Yes it would hurt but that would give you an even better reason to move with a sense of urgency lol.

I vote yes.

I've been in the sport since the early 90's and seen how the fps limits go up.
Facemask is a must and some do have some extra padding. Once you have tried this the whole gameplay changes as well, for the better that is. Indeed its going to be more upgrades but hey, what do you do when you first buy a brand new gun? = upgrade.

Yes. Must have proper attire though.

This thread is locked due to the number of bots attracted to the poll.