systema m4 worth it?
 

No commercial please

Go read reviews, google is your friend. Short of it is:
-Motor problem fixed
-Weak body is only when comparing it to a real M4A1
-Shredding BB's is a constant problem for some, never for me
-Closed dust cover is a problem?
-No heat shield...so something you can't even see reduces realism?
-zinc front sight...well considering 99% of airsoft front sights out there are cheap crappy potmetal which is worse than zinc, the STEEL front sight on a PTW is kinda nice

You'll find mixed opinions on this. I know some people who swear by them and I've fired one and it is amazing but I don't know if that justifies the enormous costs of one. Everything tends to be more expensive for a Systema too. A lot of it comes down to budget.

he's in Korea, parts ought to be cheaper over there tho, albeit more expensive than regular airsoft parts

No commercial please

lee1hy, you're on the PTW-users forum. All your possible questions can be answered there.

In short, what do you want? If you want realism, there's real ARs. The PTW is as close as you can possibly get to a real AR and still be firing 6mm BBs. If it's not real enough, what more can I say?

No, not at all. However, if you do get one, get an '08 model (they have fixed the motor issues). Any of the other issues tend to be related to body alignment, so get a factory assembled one through proper channels so you can take advantage of the warranty if your PTW starts chewing up gears.

My brother has recently acquired an '08 M4 max burst and an '08 M16 max burst. Both are what he expected, and he is very pleased with the M4.

SHA DO

The 2007 with 480 motor is the highly sought-after gun, and many people would be more inclined to buy of those used vs. a 2008 with a 490.

I have both, and both work fine. No issues.

Good comment! PTW is better reality than other (maybe not include WA M4 for now). but metal body is very sucks. I think all things invariably divide into two. so never mind. just enjoy your like.

Thanks for all post,

i post this post for how good be systema M4`s durability

Well, it's a mixed bag. Some have not been able to empty even 1 mag without failure. Some have hundreds of thousands of rounds without a failure. Gun failure in a PTW is a little more intensive to diagnose and repair than a regular AEG, but once you know how the system works, it becomes easy and quick.

Failures can be broken down into a few categories:

1) Faulty equipment. It happens, to the best and worst of guns.

2) User error. Always, this is 100% preventable. Read your manuals, know your gun, and don't be stupid. Pretty simple really.

3) Incorrect parts and accessories. If you buy a PTW, don't be a dumb-ass and try to save money on batteries, BBs or think you can just modify whatever parts to do whatever job. Use proper batteries, proper accessories, quality BBs and only attempt modifications if you are 150% certain of what your are doing. Most people who fail at this are 100% certain they know what they are doing.

4) Treat your gun like you want it to last. Don't try snorkeling in a stream because it's tacticool and that's what Navy SEALs do. Their guns are much tougher than any airsoft gun ever will be. Maintain it, keep it clean (mags as well) and reasonably dry.

Pretty sage advice for any gun really, PTW or not.

personally why spend $2000+ for the gun plus the outrageous cost of mags and such when you can just buy any other brand, throw systema parts such as a gearbox and have a gun that takes almost all brands of mags, right?

You're kidding, right?

In case you're not, you can spend $1500 easily doing what you need to do to get ROF, spring change ability and mechanical durabilty. Might as well by a PTW. For those who like the realism, pack around 10 PTW mags for a day, as well as the gun. Packing a 5 pound Marui and 15 of their mags might be easier, but hardly "realistic".

Because after you do all that you will be close the the PTW price and not even near the performance/durability/realistic of a PTW.

Just don't use the PTW in the rain. Achillies heel from what I've heard from Scarecrow and Lutnit.

I've played in the rain before. Twice, but not a torrential downpour. No problems to report. There are ways to seal the receiver joint to limit water penetrating at that point. I'm more worried about rusting steel parts than water in the electronics from light rain. It's not like I CLP the PTW or any of it's parts.

I've also heard the rumour that the 2008 has an updated switch to help eliminate this problem, but I haven't seen it yet to be certain.

LOL... Got me ICS AK for that.

Which is kinda funny coming from me, for more than one reason....

Anyway... had my PTW for about 4 months now... it's been nice. Haven't been TOO rough with it in terms of usage. But it's holding up well.

ONE MAJOR CON IS.... no batteries, or cylinders... ANYWHERE. I've been looking for 9.6ers , and an M110 for a long time. When I do find 'em, they're priced way too high, or just sold out. Kinda pisses me off.

Why worry about $35 if you need it? Sure, they can be had for $195 sometimes, but why not buy it for $230? Batteries can be had in Canada, and the price spread is only about $40 from highest to lowest. Canada probably has the best supply of PTW stuff anywhere in the world right now. But we want the cheapest prices from U.S. or Asian retailers, and they are hopelessly out-of-stock.

Buy local and you'll have it.

Moisture on the trigger contact for both of theirs killed the gun for the day they played in the rain, wasn't torrential, but had periods of medium rain when Scarecrow's gun went down, and he told me Lutnit had his go down at one point (previous game I recall) also due to rain. Aside from that, little issues among the newer ones.

Erm, cause it's usually 35$ out of my price range. lol.

I've seen cylinders range from 295, to 198. That is a change large enough to completely fuck me over.. but, w/e. That's the territory that comes with owning this unit.

I just received my M110... took 4ish month >_> They are sold out ounce again until the next shipment i heard. Same with M130's.

I've played in the rain a couple of times with my PTW and had the gun in deep snow also. No electrical problems so far.

Only thing I don't like is the design of the mags. The bb sits too exposed and it's like a dirt and water magnet.

Overall, the more I play with the PTW, the more I'm getting to love it. I don't remember the last time I played with one of my version 2 mechbox M4. The trigger response is really great and when things are working right, it is very accurate. The weight may be a tad heavy but I got used to it. It feels funny to pick up my regular AR AEGs to find them so light compared to the PTW. Best thing for me, no more cracked V2 mechboxes....priceless!

It's also funny to read about other player's opinion on why is it not worth spending so much for a PTW. I can remember I had that same opinion but after using it, I would tell anyone now, if you can afford it, buy one.

Cause Airsoft is NOTHING but UBER realism eh?

http://www.paratrooper.net/commo/Upl...-8160-bf76.jpg



Some people have forgotten that its a game, and its never going to be near what real life soldiers deal with. ;) So what if our "game" doesn't let you haul around the real world weight, its not like half the people that play are in any sort of physical shape to jump into the shit as they are. And in the real world, seeing 8 mags on a rifleman's chest rig isn't very rare; because they're in the sort of shape to do it ;), we aren't.


P.S. RIP PVT. Jenkins, there was JUST no more brownies available for a safe evac :(

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...kes/lol3ys.jpg


In all seriousness, its going to be matter of opinion. Sure its all fine and dandy to say things like "Oh its only a couple hundred more." I just talked to LUTNIT about possibly going route of PTW again. Started with "Just get a Gen 3 challege kit, only $1100." Bumped up to, "Well, factory assembled Gen 3 is only $1600," to "Max challenge is $1500," to "Max factory assembled is $2100". Okay, so Max is best bang for buck ((when really after reading the only real difference is that you can use the crazy high FPS M150 cylinders... yay prohibited FPS. Then you add in costs for mags $300 for set of 6, battery I've seen as low as $120 for them, least thats what LUTNIT told me. Top it off, none of my RC chargers are compatible for these batteries so toss on new charger, $100 or so. I'm looking at $2620, tag on say $200 to cover shipping costs and taxes and the like ((yes rounded up a bit)), thats $2800.

For that kind of money I have built a left handed bolt action M24, bought and modified a CA MP5A3, bought and upgraded a TM MP5k, and acquired assorted gear included mags, batteries, radio, radio headset, OH! And nagged the shit out of Army Issue to sell me JUST MC pants since he wants to sell MC as a package now :P. Although now I am going to go get a new jacket cause my older one ripped up bad, but that will blow my budget.

Initially Apoc figured it was just an over priced AEG made by Systema with Systema parts, still V2 mechbox and all the other crap, until Lutnit and I convinced him to buy one. He bought two (one will be a constant wallhanger, M16 made into another SPR........... upgraded to the tits yet will never get used) and loves his PTW M4 (gamed it once, he's not been much of a player in the past year).

Honestly, I've seen my fair of PTW users around here.

They really aren't any better than guys with any other AEGs, they still get the same amount of kills doing the same old things, honestly.

so is PTW realyl that much better?

I don't know, I don't care, not really planning to ever get one either.

Are you packing realistic weight SAPI plates in your body armor, too?

i personally dont see the point in buying a systema. Id rather custom build my own gun for the price. dont get me wrong, from what i have seen and hear, they are great. but you can just get say a CA M4 and upgrade it to the tits and still have money left over. performance wise, shot for shot, the upgraded gun will probably be better. but the minor stuff, like interals would not be as good, but hey, if you have a CA complete mechbox, who is going to argue. the other problem IMO is the fact that Systema are not compatible with other mags (i think, but ask someone else to clarify) and the PTW mags are expensive.

So, do you guys think that a "factory assembled Gen 3" (never heard of such a thing, but whatever) at $1600 is different from a $2100 MAX gun only due to the $50 steel planetary gears? Think about it for a second.

Gen 3 guns have been plagued by problems. Hop-up is a biggie, but other little annoyances as well. When Systema builds a gun, there is going to be parts tolerances. Some over-spec, some under-spec if you will. When they build a gun, and a part doesn't fit, or it fails to work properly, do they just throw it in the garbage? Do the parts most out of spec, get tossed? It would seem from a business standpoint that this would be crazy. Why not just put them into the "Sorry, no warranty on kits" kits, and keep the best parts for the most expensive guns, where failure means warranty service that costs them money? Simple economics really.

I have got more kills from my PTW than I ever did with any other AEG. This is because the gun responds so fast, the velocity is higher, and the BB actually goes where I aim, everytime, all the time. That is what I paid for, and that is what I got. Oh, and for CQB, or large field work, I can maintain 1 gun and keep 1 as an emergency back-up (which has yet to be used BTW), instead of keeping a couple CQB, a couple intermediate and a couple long-distance guns. That latter is far more expensive than the former, and when you've played a few years and been there, you know what I mean.

I could care less about liking a gun because of what it replicates, I've never liked the AR series based on looks or sexiness or any of that crap. I like it for the amount of shit I can do to it, the gear I can buy for it, and the universal usability of the platform. I could care less if the PTW was made into an AK, or a G36. It's not about the form, but the function.

When I was at the RAAT game last weekend, there was alot of PTWs out there, more than any other gun by far. I counted 14 out of 50ish players, and I probably missed a few. The engagement distances were long, sometimes at almost beyond visual range through the bush, and at ranges that made ID difficult sometimes via the naked eye. I paid for that and got that as well.

It may not always be about the gun and more about the player, but sometimes it's also about the gun. I have found no better gun, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time until someone builds it, and maybe the next one will be a big revolution, perhaps no electrics at all.

Sadly, no. It has been hard on my back to do so. But hopefully yet another comfortable plate carrier will present itself to ease my pain, right Huang? I don't even have a plate carrier anymore, yet.

No offense, but you could get that with a big battery, an upgraded spring, and a tightbore using heavy BB's.

For sure there are pros and cons with buying a PTW but I bet if this question was asked only to actual PTW owners, the majority of them will say yes, it was worth it.

And also, I have found that I get more kills by using the full potential of the PTW. My team mate after he replaced the damage hopup he created, also swears by it.

I like the fact I don't have to worry about crack mechbox, bad shimming, problematic internals, wobbling, and so many other standard problems with normal Aeg's...

Sure I could. But can make it CQB-ready in 15 seconds if I'm slow. Or I could make 430 fps. Same gun, same mags. Nothing else changes but the cylinder. And, I can get 2500 rounds out of a 9.6v 1600mah battery at 430 fps. I used to have to carry 2 spare 9.6v 3000mah in my G&P SPR to do the same job, and at less velocity.

That's part of the reason people buy them.

People buy a PTW for any number of reasons. If those reasons work for a person, then he buys. If they don't work for you, you don't have to buy. There still that little thing called free will and choice. Chose what you want and buy what you want. I did.

This is the same old discussion that always happens regarding the PTW. Do we need to go over it all again? Did people forget?

The OP has been given all the info he needs, especially considering he comes from a totally different continent.

Why don't you pm Madmax. I got all my mags, batteries and cylinders from him. His prices are not that bad.

Yeah! 2K post count. Like the price of a PTW... lol

It's a sign that you need to go to bed old man. ;)

To be honest I tried a PTW, Bruce's, and while I was impressed I'm happy with my well upgraded and maintained M4.

I'd rather spend some money on building a nice CQB gun than getting a PTW. That is unless I go crazy and sell a bunch of my guns to get one but I don't see myself doing that anytime soon.

Neither do I.

The real problem is too many people muck around with AEG internals when they really have no clue how to do it properly. I've had to unfuck more than one gearbox or other retarded modification botched up by some wannabe gun tech, and I'm certain bona fide Gun Doctors worth their salt, from one end of the country to the other, have had at least one similar experience.

Fianlly, 08 MAX is clear the all problems ? fixed? ^_^

In my opinion the PTW is very worth it. The reason is simple, I was constantly spending money on my ICS and it never worked reliably. I remember bring 4 guns to a game since you knew 1 or 2 of them would become fubar. I easily had as much money tied up in that way of playing as I do with my 2 PTW's.

I also believe I get way more kills with my PTW then I did with my other guns. Does it make you a better player-no, but you do tend to hit what your aiming at. I have shot several guys through cracks in buildings since they thought they were safe. The trigger response helps as well. I can pop out of a window, fire a burst and be back down and usually get a hit since your rounds get there 1st. It does become a tactical advantage. Will it stop you from getting ambushed as your moving through the bush, no.

There have been several guys that have built PTW killers out here and all of them have failed. They do not have the range and they have all broken on the field. I know mine will eventually break so I carry a spare lower so I would be able to pop 2 pins and be back in the game and fix the other at my pace once the game is done. Do I think everyone should own 1, no, but it makes sense for me.

One or two per month on my bench. Damned previously owned guns!!!!

:D Little one sided bud ;). Why DIDN'T others buy it? ;) Was it ONLY cause of financial or because there was something wrong with it that made them ignore the product all together. It's like asking what's better Ford or Chev brakes, nevermind that they're both from Monroe ;).


McGuyver I didn't say that the Max wasn't better than the Gen 3, but given choice between factory built Gen 3 and challenge kit Max, I'd take the Factory built; or are you gonna go back on your swearing by SystemA QC?

No matter how I slice it, going with the best BASIC set up for a PTW I'm lookin' at nearly $3000. And for that kind of money I have built two very well built AEG's AND set them both up with all mags and batteries they need. As well I've built I a fully custom left hand bolt action rifle. That sniper rifle alone eats up MOST of the tab as well, comin' nearly at $1500 in parts by the end of it. And I've also pretty much replaced all my gear for gaming, from holsters to rigs, to hydration carrier, and a good radio.

As far as realism goes, the point to the humor of the "internet warrior" was to illustrate that we as players are not realistic. A lot of us are fat, out of shape, or have physical hindrances that don't let us jump into the shit with the real soldiers. Yes we have people that ARE soldiers and LE playing, but hey, they're out to have fun too.

I agree with Brakoo, they're fun, and have tried em out, but really I see many more things I can invest in first with $3000 than a PTW. Gear is a huge thing, and no matter how many thousands you've dropped into one PTW or two, not having a chest rig to carry the mags is still an epic fail ;).


Also, Ronan, I've not had issues with cracked mechboxes in quite some time. Then again, all someone has to do is learn to not want 500FPS out of a V.2 mechbox ;). As well with shimming and so on, if you give the gun to someone who really is not well versed or has a clue what to do with the mechbox open you'll run into trouble. Just like you will if someone buys the Challenge kit and assembles the PTW themselves. Hence why I ventured to cost out a Factory built Gen 3, but look what that got, huffing and puffing from the guy who I could get with my springer at MUCH greater distances, that as an INSTANT trigger response ;). ((Bolt action rifles are GREAT for that instant trigger response :D, and the 550mm 6.03 tightbore REALLY helps with the reachin' out and touching targets at range)).

+1 I did have 4 of those PTW, in the end it was all sold and I was much more satisfied with my Inokatsu and my G&P. PTW are a little too high tech for my taste

here here! my sentiments exactly.. I am much more satisfied with my SR/SPR that I built myself and has never let me down and racks up confirmed kills every game I use it. Best part is, I am not worried about scratching it, busting it, ect cuz it wont break my already tapped bank account just to get it firing again.

They're not worth it. No matter how finely sculpted your AEG is to look like the real thing, in the end its still a toy airgun that fires 6mm plastic BB's.

When a gun gets a few drops of water in it and stops working, forcing you to quit for the day... Whats the point? My $350 JG outlasted several PTW's simply because it didn't fault in the rain. The argument is that six months down the road everything inside will be chewed to shit, but if that happens the $300 drop-in Systema gearbox and motor upgrade will fix the issue, and its still only $650 spent. Throw in a metal body, tightbore inner barrel, maybe a one-piece metal hopup, and you're still nowhere close to the cost of a PTW.

Now, if they made a PTW that survived the rain...

Why would I go back on Systema QC. There is nobody on the planet that has built more of them than the factory, and nobody with as much parts or engineering at their disposal than the factory.

You should buy factory over kit. It's a rare event when a kit works, and works well for a long time. When the factory builds it, it's supposed to be tested before it leaves. Not so with kits. But they need a place to put the off-spec parts, and you can't really put them in a gun that you have to test, and not expect to be yanking it out again when it doesn't work, wasting time and money. Put them in the cheap kits that have no warranty, then you don't have to worry about them and they don't cost you money to throw them in the trash.

That's not unreasonable, is it? We all know that Systema likes to make $$$.

And a Chevy will be more reliable than a Ferrari. And I assure you Ferrari's sales are doing just fine. I mean, they both have 4 wheels and drink gasoline right?

And guys who have the money and want a Ferrari will never buy a Chevy, no matter the reliability diffrence between the two.

It's funny, half the arguments against owning a PTW, or real gear, or expensive radios, or whatever, is simply money. If you have it and want to spend it, fine, go for it. If you don't have it, and use the cost of it as an accuse to justify it "not being worth it", get a life. Seriously.

Others like them quite fine, some even love them, and some do not and never will. So, where is this thread going? Nowhere.

Oh, one thing I love/hate is the cheek pads.

Mine felt really nice when they were on, and intact.... but they got marred up preeettyyy bad.

However, now that they're off, the rifle feels like a weapon, and not a training weapon. Very pretty with the groove leveled out too. Looks authentic LMT.

as a friend of mine said "for that price I'll get a real m4 a few mags and a case of ammo" yes it is about the money thing, I've tried a friends befor , liked the fact that there was no trigger lag and it was solid and had the finnish similar to a real m4 but as said befor i can upgrade a cheaper gun to run solid for the rest of my time playing airsoft and use the same mags as all my other AR models.

I guess it all boils down to cost and practicality

Good for him as long he doesn't go to a AIRSOFT game with it...:rolleyes:

What about something such as the ICS split mechbox? That allows for fast velocity changes.

As for carrying 2 spare (thus 3 total) 3000mah batteries to get 2500 rounds, that's just can't be right. Either your batteries were in horrible condition, or the gun was.

I seriously don't think it's worth it.

PTW doesn't make you a better player, period.

I've seriously killed so many PTW users it's not even funny... Everytime I just tell them "why'd u get it man, look, I'm using a $300 China clone!"

well to add my 2 cents I am really won over now with my PRO-WIN. I am into the gun for $1000 and I can shoot as good as a PTW if not better. Anyone in alberta is able to test me on this when I enter a game.

Our team ASA has 5 PTW and 4 Pro-wins, both perform at about the same failure rate... rarely. Actually we haven't had a PRO-WIN failure yet (after intial build bugs were worked out.... which you don't get with QC PTWs) but we have had a few PTW issues.

With the PRO-WIN we can do a spring change in 30 seconds and spend less cash.

Personally myself if you want an ultra reliable gun and you are on some what of a budget go the PRO-WIN.

Who says buying a PTW makes you a better player?

I think anybody who believes that having a more expensive toy will make you a better player is a moron.

Brian, you can't call Skladfin a moron. He kills PTW players by the Boat Full. He's the Airsoft God and I'm glad I don't play in Vancouver because I don't want to get killed by him all the time. ;)

Yep, ICS does make a split mechbox, But without extensive upgrades, the gun would not run reliably at velocitites higher than 400 fps, which was really pushing it. And, I had 2 alternate uppers, batteries and was still $1500 into an ICS, not including mags, rail, etc.

The G&P shot 450 fps out of the box, and with the Systema silent head set gave me about 420 fps and 1100-1200 rounds on a battery. It did it right from new. Notice the batteries were NiMH? They are not the best for current discharge, NiCad still rules there, but not as easy to find. The EG700 available in the G&P took a shit-kicking running the load the gun came with (from the factory), and the battery usage showed that. So again, it would have taken more money invested into a $1000 gun to improve the situation, when a PTW cost me $1750 (factory assembled). And the G&P packed it in at about 15,000 rounds, and it lasted longer than the other 3 SPRs locally.

I find today how many people complain "Oh, but the mags are so expensive, and the batteries ae ridiculous", and these are not older, more experienced players. How many guys remember when Marui lo-caps cost $50 each, or a standard 8.4v large battery was $75? It was only a couple of years ago, before the clones came out. That was the situation, and not many choices there. How many guys still say "you need $1000 to get into airsoft"? This is from the same era, but the reality now is about $400. So I can see why people who entered this sport last year can say a PTW is expensive. It really isn't, when you're used to dumping $1500 into a gun no problem, and still get mediocre performance and have to fix the thing all the time because you're mixing and matching parts with different specs. That is the way it used to be, and still would be if you bought quality parts and built up a gun from a Marui base, which is how it used to be done, and still is for some guys.

seriously good for you, I don't think I have ever met anyone with a PTW who thinks he can't be beat by someone with a China Clone. We don't get a "no die card" when we buy the gun.No one is claiming that, we still need to play the game and play well to use the weapon to its potential just like you do with your ak but its a choice that some make and are very happy with and some who don't and are happy with their clone. Either way, who cares? I am more then happy with my PTW and my ICS. But guess what gun hasn't been used in the past 6months other then to lend out? Sorry man, I think I know where your coming from but I get so sick of hearing non-ptw users bash the gun without what I feel is a viable reason. Particularly when no ptw user I know tries to push the " you must have a ptw to compete" additute, I think thats something that non-users think we try to push. I just want to play the game, have fun and I have the money to buy one, so I liked the feel of one, how it shot, the versatility of one so I bought one and don't regret it one bit.

I see, you got a point there, I guess it's more true coming from the owner itself.

Okay, let's clear up one big misconception.

We're not ALL Ronan. lol.

Secondly, I, and like 80% of the PTW owners I know chose to purchase this gun, as it's the most accurate (in terms of functionality, and appearance) AEG on the market. The mags are realistically weighted, and give you a better idea of what you'd be dealing with on the field. AND ofcourse the gimmicky quickchange spring.

You can't say the PTW makes you a better player-that'd be silly. But saying that it'll give you better muscle memory, and help you develop better trigger control makes sense. It is a TRAINING weapon, is it not? lol..

Good lord...

Is Inokatsu worth it? Is Western Arms worth it? Is JG worth it? AGM? How about that crack whore at hooker Harveys who gives great head for $20? Is she worth it?

It is all personal preference. It is personal cost/reward justification. If you enjoy it and it brings you satisfaction to own without putting you into unmanageable debt, then it's worth it. You need to define what "worth" means to you. Forget performance, aesthetics, appeal, or your own personal skill. There are collectors here who will probably never field a PTW but who might own one. If someone is happy owning one, then it's worth it for that person. This kind of topic is older and fouler than grandma's fortnight old unchanged knickers.

All depends on what you prefere.

For me, if Systema made an AK, I'd be on that like white on rice.

that made me laugh lol

and ya, I do agree the quick spring change is great to have.

For all the joking I do about giving one away and going with G&P, PTW's are beauties. I can't justify the money it costs to get into it, that certainly doesn't make them bad.

I'd have to say the biggest drawback is that they tend to be for the more "mechanically inclined" players. There's so much that could go wrong with any AEG, when it goes wrong with a systema, however rare that may be, you usually need a much more trained hand than with a lower end AEG because of how foreign their design is. Not a reason to avoid it, but definitely a con.

I'd have one if I could afford it, but I can't so I'm perfectly happy with my G&P which shoots really far and has a good fps.

For the simple fact of I don't have much experience taking apart anything else I don't take the PTW design as a con. In fact I would be very nervous to take my ICS apart for a lack of experience. My ICS was built by someone else. I have had my PTW apart and back together a few times now and I find the design very easy to work with. I guess it comes down to experience. Our team has a PTW kit that consists enough spare parts to rebuild a gun from the ground up except the body parts so if anything goes wrong we all have enough basic common sense on how to fix something which sometimes means, trying good known parts but it works for us. In fact that is how I repaired my PTW just 2 weeks ago when the motor went.

Kos not trying to start a fight or anything I am just wondering how a PTW can help develop better trigger control over an AEG????

Because ever time you pull the trigger, it depreciates in value ;)

Buwahahahaha:D

I like my PTW, but I can tell you honestly that if I had to choose what to use in a game, I'll take my VFC 416 over my PTW without question.

The PTW is a great gun, but I honestly can't say its worth the price. Yes, the internals are great, and yes, the battery and cylinder system are excellent, but the hopup system is nothing special, and the metal used in the receiver is less quality then what you would expect.

Aftermarket tightbore, modified hop up and CNC anodized high grade aluminum aftermarket lowers (and soon uppers) of all flavors. More money to burn yeah!! :D

I have a PTW, I like my PTW, I didn't have to sell my soul to buy the PTW, end of story.

Goes down in the rain, yup, that sucks. Thats all I really have to say, people rag on this to no end and really, it makes you look like an idiot.

Where are people buying batteries that they cost $120? I bought one for $100, official SystemA 9.6V battery, cash, no taxes.

@macgyver
its rare for a challenge kit to work right? Well then I guess the 3 I built don't count, and the countless others I know of who built kits and have had zero problems (other than rain.)

I can outrange any AEG I have ever been up against (pretty much every brand and every gun shooting up to and including 400fps) except a TM M14. End of story, if someone you where against had a PTW that didn't do that, there is something wrong with it (challenge kit problems?)

I remember when a bone stock G&P M4A1 was $1900, and is was so totally worth it and everyone wanted one, back then PTW's where around $3k. Now that a PTW has come down to what a G&P used to cost, its overpriced? If you don't know shit and have been playing airsoft for less than a year, just don't talk.

Everything has its pros and cons, generally what I find with my PTW is "I can outrange anyone but a sniper but if it rains I'm fucked" and to me with how few games I play in the rain, and the fact that my PTW never goes down except for rain (I had a bad string of about 10-15 AEG's in a row and not a one of them would last an entire game) its worth every penny (at the current price, I bought mine when they where more expensive and I considered it break even.)

how many rain issues are some of you having? I played with my ptw through the winter here in Victoria and we played in some pretty rainny games and never had an issue until just recently at a milsim I had a hick up where it only shot burst and no semi. Even with the switch on semi it shot burst. not really a bad thing I guess.

Bottom line if you want it buy it. If not buy something else. Problem solved.

About 2 out of 3 rain games the trigger shorts and it thinks the trigger is always pressed. I've played in about 3 rain games :)

james, what you describe seems to be the common rain issue - something to do with the selector. Mind you at Wolfpack Primary over May 2-4 there were several of us out in the rain (it was heavier than a drizzle but could only be described as "light") in the open with no tree cover for a good couple of hours before the game even started.

There's lot of kits out west, and a great many have suffered failures, for a nuimber of reasons. They outnumber factory assembled probably 3 or 4 to 1, and it's rare that I've come across the factory assembled ones that have failed. If you saw the numbers of PMs I've gotten from guys looking to fix issues with the kits, well, you'd understand why I have recommended for the last year to not buy them. Just on PTWs alones, I'll bet over 1,000 in the past year, but probably more than that. The kits were so bad, that many retailers in the U.S. and Europe refused to sell them. Then, the PTW became popular, and kits were all that was available.

Like I've said before, it's not all the parts quality (which does seem to vary), but also the skill of the assembler. But there's a reason the kit is less money than the assembled gun, and it only isn't in labour, especially where Gen 3 kits are concerned.

I find putting a little grease around the rim of upper receiver where it mates with the lower on rainy days keeps the water out, never had a failure in the rain.

yeah i figured it was, I just find it odd to hear about so many water issues cause besides that 1 day I described above I have nor anyone on our team (6 ptws in total I think) had any issues with water and we played in atleast 5 very heavy rain days this past winter not to mention the regular rain/fog we get here in Victoria every winter.

Although thinking about it a bit, the day my gun had the issue, i did have my gun resting up against a car for about an hour before we started to play so maybe some water made its way in there then. Either way, I am not concerned about it, I dried the gun out and everything is good.
And in terms of SCK vs factory built. I bought an SCK and I had issues and I was one of the many pms Mcguyver got. I wouldn't go SCK again, it ended up costing me more to put it together in the end then if I just bought the built unit.

My 1st one was a kit and I had some pm's to Mcguyveras well (always helped out quicklyl) but I bought a pre-built for my 2nd. I tell everyone to spend the extra for the pre-built, it just makes sense.

I bought one of the first 08 SCK from thePirates ptw orders, and i've played in light rain, highly dirty/dusty environments and it's never given me any trouble. It hasn't chewed any bbs, all the parts fit like they're supposed to and I haven't seen anything weird with the electronics.

It's given me far less trouble then my old CA m15a4, which had few if any problems that weren't easily fixed with a half hour on the workbench.

I can't say it's made me a better or worse player. It's just a tool. It's the operator that can make good or bad use of the tool to get the job done and that's what's important.

i've had mine for a few months now, and since i got it, my other guns have just sat on the shelf. like the last post, i've played in many different environments, and have had no trouble. in fact, i haven't even done any maintenance on it yet... which now that i think of it, will.

i bought an o8 sck, and probably wouldn't trade it for any other gun. since i bought mine 2 other friends have gotten them, and i think a third is coming.

if you got the coin, why not drop it.

oh yea, my friend built mine without any manuals or any previous knowledge of PTW's. mind you, he's(damage) more than AWESOME with all other aegs.