Going overseas, need help building a rig.
 

Going overseas on the 110 Roto, and need help setting up a rig.

So far it looks like they have me slated as a LAV Driver, but who knows. So with that in mind I need help getting the best bang for my buck.

Requirements:

1. Has to be durable as fuck. I don't care if It looks cool, smells cool, and is cool. If this thing doesn't last a week under real conditions, its junk. I don't want buckles breaking off, straps ripping, or key components falling off over time.

2. Storage; Has to carry a reasonable amount. 10 Mags balmed, and preferably 5 boxes somewhere on the rig. 2l Quart, and a 1l Canteen. Pocket for pens and pencils and maps, compass (IT HAS TO STAY DRY!!!). general Utility pouch, for socks and muntions and other little odds and ends. Preferably a place to store a GPS, and a good hunting knife, but not essential as I got lots of pockets.

3. Comfort; mainly, load distrobution. If it can carry an elephant, but it still feels like i'm carrying an elephant, I don't want it. I gotta wear this thing for long periods of time over all kinds of body positions. I like sleeping with my gear on, so if the vest prevents that, means i take it off, take it off, its not on when i need it most.

4. Bells and Whistles; I don't need a vest that turns into a life raft with the pull of a cord. I want something practicle. If its honestly a good improvemnt over other designs, by all means lemme know, but if its just fancy for being fancy, fuck it.

5. Price; not really a major factor as this is something you really can't put a price on. But I ain't made of gold either. Ferraries are nice, but the queen doesn't pay that much.

Sorry if it all comes off like I'm demanding something, but I figure i've come to the best spot for advice. Ya sure I were this shit all day, but know one at work really knows the different options out there. A lot of you guys were these chest rigs all the time in all different types of conditions, so you have first hand account of there function. Maybe you don't use it to its full potentiol, but you use it, I don't.

Thanks for the help.

P.S.

Don't worry about it being a plate carrier. I already got one, and I like it. Makes me feel big!

I don't know how comfortable it would be in a LAV, I wore it in a M113 and found it difficult to move around. I have IDF Recon Vest. This is by far one of the move comfortable vests I have ever worn, excellent load distribution. My only peeve with it, is you need to take it off or get a buddy to help in order to access the compartments on the back of the vest. There are two currently being sold on the forum, one is mine, an older version and Knyte has a never version thats been modified a bit.

http://www.hagor.co.il/Media/Uploads/020(1).jpg

http://www.hagor.co.il/Media/Uploads/021(1).jpg

Otherwise, I would recommend a HSGI Warlord Bravo 3 with a HSGI hydration pack. (I bought this from someone who used it on tour - so that has to say something)

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...MG_0001-17.jpg

I also see that your local, your more than welcome to come over and try it on. The HSGI is not for sale though, but I would definitely recommend it. The HSGI I find isn't as comfy to wear as the IDF vest though.

Go to the guys at wannabe. They are a military re-enactment group so to speak and know the ins and outs aside from being on one of the teams.
Those guys know a hell of a lot more than most of the guys on here.
Also, chat up your fellow guys that may have been there already, they will have the best knowledge of what to bring and what not to.

If your driving though I wouldn't want something bulky, try to get something more streamlined.

@TANK

I really like the HSGI line, but I was more leaning towards the Weestach cause of the mag layout. I like having 'em by my belly. (Who ever made the issue tac vest is a fucking moron)

Also, I get issued the hydration pouch, so a built in one isn't really needed.

Thanks though, at least its giving me visual ideas.

@Beazer.

The guys that've been over know there shit, but a lot of 'em went with the issued rig, or something they picked up at a surplus store, or on a whim. For them the rig either worked or it didn't, they don't really know the ins and outs of 3rd party companies (never mind most the stuff they wear is blackhawk, and all i hear is bad things). Hence my other dilema being a driver. I probably won't be wearing the rig inside the boat, but there is the off chance I might so yes, it can't be that bulky.

How I have the current setup the mags are at my belly, and I find it is quite comfortable. The only reason I didn't reccomend the weesatch was because the Warlord bravo 3 has a great admin/pouch with lots of pockets inside for the things your mention and it will keep them dry unless you go swimming, theres enough room in there to keep what you stated, my side arm and snacks too! I also really like the warlord, because of how the pouches are the mags a staggered which make them easier to grab, as its frustrating with 2x or 3x mag pouches when all the mags are on the same level.

I just got back from 1-08.I drove a Bison twice over there an rode in the back of a Bison once, an same in the back of a LAV; an did some dismounted patrolling with the OMLT/ANA. Nothing huge or anything; so everything below is just from my limited experiance an what I've seen, etc.

Drivers in Armoured Vehicles do not wear their LBE, just armour while driving. Not enough room to be wearing that shit in there and if you gotta dismount in a hurry it's only going to slow you down an theres a chance you can get caught up on shit in there.

I wore a HSGI Warlord overseas; not a fan of the chest rigs especially when spending time doing dismounted patrolling. Something that can be opened from the front an worn like webbing would be my recommendation. Right now I'am using a SO Tech Hellcat MK3 with some CP Gear, TAG an ATS pouches.

If you are going to be Mechanized a lot an not really doing dismounted stuff than a chest rig is alright; I know a lot of guys who love 'em an have used them during tours in '06 an again in '08.


I wouldn't recommend the wannabe site. Go ask real Soldiers who have been over there, etc. Goto lightfighter.net and army.ca and ask around. Plenty of guys who have been Stryker an LAV crew on those sites and they can give you advice/recommendations on what worked an didn't work for them.



Also, why do you want to carry a 1 and 2qt canteen? Just use the camelbak they issue you over there. An carry a Nalgene or the 2qt in a backpack. Or use the bottled water that theres tons of over there. When I drove I just wore my camelbak; patrolling since I was the cool guy(or unlucky) I carried the radio so I had my 3L bladder in there of water, and I had a water bottle that I mixed gatorade powder(you sweat a LOT out there, so getting electrolytes back into your system is a good thing) into an put that in my chest rig.

deffinatly agree with mike on this one i was a coyote driver with 12 rbc any of that funky shit gets in the way just with my frag i had a hell of a time trying to get out of my driver hole lol if youre the sentry or survop then a rig might be ideal i recently changed jobs and im on the ground more often no since i was plucked into 3 r22r as omlt so it will deffinatly be a different experience for me

Shugart

Take some time and drive out here to Trenton to see me, and bring your armour if you have it.

Not recommended. Even though those guys have enough gear to overthrow an African nation, playing Plastic Death does not qualify as operational experience.

Maybe out of date but some hints from my Bosnia tour in 93-94 with the 12e RBC.
Not really gear orientated but should hopefully give you some tips
- Wear your armour while driving with maybe a mag or two in a pouch but nothing else. You'll only get caught up if you need to get out fast.
- Have a rig that gives you some flexability, doing foot patrol have a pouch with extra ammo, driving for 3 days swap the pouch to something to carry a rat or two, etc...
- Have your rig handy, be able to jump out grab it with one hand and run. Don't attach it with 10 beeners, make sure everything is secure to your rig and hang it somewhere with 1 beener.
- Pack your rig once, put it away, visit it again and re-pack it, do this a few times and by the end of it you'll have a rig that is light enough and carries only the essentials
- Pack socks and undies you never know when you'll be sperated from your kit.
- Hide a couple of zip lock bags for your wallets, smokes, etc...
- Break everything in first, wash it, beat it drag it behind a truck.

From one old soldier to a new one, good luck on the tour
Jakster

Those US Army SF guys (the ones who do a LOT of driving) in Afghanistan seem pretty fond of their Land CIRAS rigs from EAGLE Industries. Wide shoulder sections to help evenly distribute weight, unlimited storage capacity with MOLLE webbing everywhere. Only downside I hear airsofters who use it bitch about is that they're warm.

Shugart isn't looking for a plate carrier so the CIRAS is out. As a Driver you'd want a rig you can take off so you aren't wearing all your ammo, etc when you are driving since theres no room. The Eagle Ciras is a plate carrier that you attach all the pouches onto.

Also, riding around in a Hummer is quite a bit different than going out in a LAV and SF has a bit of a different role and SOPs than Regular troops.

Don't forget about the KISS rig from Wheelers...split front, all the clips and straps are replaceable should they break, sleeves behind the panels and its slim-lined.
Personally I'm on the Warlord bandwagon.

My $0.50 ;)

It's no more bulky than the Warlord or IDF vest. If you're going to have ammo on it, it's going to be bulky. If you're going to be driving with it on, having anything more than a hydration pack on the back of it is going to inhibit driving.

K, when driving in an armoured vehicle the driver will only be wearing their body armour an a hydration pack(if they want it). If you have to get out in a hurry or you got wounded an your buddies have to get you out you do not want to get caught up in the driver hatch because your kit is getting caught in shit, etc

Wearing a chest rig, tac vest, etc is not worn



Now something like a CIRAS is a plate carrier that allows you to attach pouches onto it. Which is not a good thing for a driver of an armoured vehicle. A driver will need a seperate rig to carry their kit because it's something when worn while out of the vehicle not while inside.

And a CIRAS isn't something that will be very good when worn over the CF issue body armour.

Obviously you wouldn't be wearing a CIRAS if you're driving the vehicle, you'd be wearing some form of PACA soft body armour and you'd slip the CIRAS on once outside of the vehicle. It's nice because everything is on there, there's no fussing with straps or clips or any of that nonsense, it's just a matter of slipping it on and you're good to go. This is done easily if you adjust it to fit loosely.

Mind you, I'm not in the forces so I don't know how much the troops are permitted to customize their equipment. I'm assuming that if you can wear a vest of your choosing then the armour may be as well.

Thanks a lot guys, this is a huge help.

I'm starting to get an idea of what I need. I never thought of asking the zipper heads though. Pride thing I guess. heh.

The canteen issue is just giving people an idea of storage and space. Its how I have my Tac Vest laid out now, so i figure why change what works? But I'm assuming it'll be wasted space once I incorporate the Camelback. But hey, over there you can never have too much water.

From what i've seen, and read, molle is definatley the direction I'm going. It offers so many options and configurations for any type of op, and it doesn't limit me in any real way. The problem is, what vest do i use as a platform?

Thanks again for all the info, gonna hit up Full Spectrum Gear here at base and see what they got to work with. Last time I was in they had a weestach, and it fit nice, but I wasn't wearing my armour.

Oh and as an aside, any companies to avoid? Blackhawk, or crazy chinese knockoffs?

Wilson you are talking out of your lane on this one.

You do not get to pick an choose the Armour you have. You always wear your issue body armour(soft armour an plates). You can't decide you don't wanna wear plates just because you are in a vehicle an decide to roll with only soft armour.



As for the Black Hawk stuff, some stuff they got is decent. Some Snipers an Inf Recce guys wore Black Hawk webbing over there; don't think they had any issues with it. Black Hawk makes some decent gear an other gear they make is junk.

Theres a kitshop in KAF called Black Ops, it's all chinese knock off stuff so stay away from it. Unless you are going in just to buy one of those butt stock mag pouches(if you didn't get one issued when you get kitted out in theatre).


TAG, HSGI, Tactical Tailor and SO Tech are pretty much the top gear makers an I'd recommend staying with them.

What about something like the BHI Strike Webbing? Its like the Riverine/ISSAK rig from LBT, only completley molle, easy to pull on or off (closes with 3 fastex buckles, or in a pinch you could probably tie the webbing straps together), allows for a LOT of load carry, and stows up pretty small when not in use...

Learn something new every day! :) Well in that case, I'm sure almost any vest on the market can be adjusted to fit over the armour (as most are made to do).

You don't need to have served to understand the principles of clothing yourself.

I would love to sit down with someone actively in Infantry right now and pick their brain. Been contemplating it for a while now.

Yea, I'am pretty sure thats the black hawk webbing the guys were using.


Aslong as it's a stand alone rig, ie just a tac vest or chest rig, etc. Some chest rigs also act as plate carriers, some work over armour, some are kinda awkward.



Not really IMO, atleast when it comes to recommending kit for a Soldier about to deply.
If you are currently serving/prior service you have a better understanding of what is allowed, what kit you actually need to carry, whats practical, etc.


What do you want to know; theres a few guys on the boards who are Reg Force Infantryman. I'am a Reg Force Signaller in an Infantry unit.

Hey MikeL, over there, how practical are dropleg holster? I figure they would be avoided because of the dust, but I keep seeing a lot in use.

What's your opinion on them, especially the open one?

When dismounted, is there a lot of laying prone and/or crawling or everybody stay on his feets most of the time?

For the dropleg, depends on what you're doing. For just walking about KAF or the FOB they're fine or I guess if you're always gonna be in a veh. But for dismounted stuff, it's not the best. Most people find that it gets uncomfortable an chafes when walking a lot, plus the heat, sweat doesn't help. Most guys just put their pistol in a rifle mag pouch on their rig.


As for going prone, etc depends on the situation and area. From my own experiance I never went prone, just always took a knee. An there was enough cover to do that, ie low walls, ditches, fields, etc. For me personally I like just dropping to a knee since it's faster to get up an go again. But if theres poor cover or you're in the open I'd go prone; there was a few areas out there that if we got in a firefight I'd have to go prone to get cover/protection an just pop up to fire a few shots than back down again, etc.



Also, anytime that I dropped to a knee was just when the patrol stopped either to observe something, talk to locals, search people, etc I never got into a firefight while on patrol; least on the ones I went out on... only really shot at an mortared our Strong Point occasionly an do the IED thing.

Blackhawk STRIKE LBE is good shit.

Seriously tho, go see Farmboy.

Everything. I want someone with current information to just talk at me about everything CF that crosses their mind until they are blue in the face!

I had the chance to try one of my teamates's Eagle RRV, I found them very comfortable with or whitout plates and with or without armor underneat. You can add a back panel for more molle space or use a MBSS for it. Very nice piee of gear IMO
http://www.eagleindustries.com/produ...&cat=49&page=1

lol, kinda vague an crosses a lot of subjects


I can probably fill you in with a good amount of info; I've been with the Patricia's for almost 2 years, gone on deployment, etc An my brother was a Patricia/Infantryman(Afghan tour too) so I got a fair bit of info. Yeoman would be a good source of info too, but he's on tour right now an isn't online all that much. An I believe there is another RCR Infantryman on the boards, just can't think of his name. An I know theres a few ex-Patricia's on here aswell.

me as well if you want pm me and id be glad to give ya a call ive served with both 12 rbc and 3 vandoo

Would they let you wear a pat 82,or does it have to be a vest?.
I hate the vests.:cool:

A WO in my unit wore 82pat webbing; just attached some extra pouches to it.

As long as it is proven functional,they'll let you wear it?.I'm up to
six mag pouches plus holster and standard issue kit on my pat 82.
I might re up if they allow that.

Pretty; atleast in my unit. An plus 82 pat is issued kit so they can't really say no to that.

Before we went on tour our CO an RSM came up with a list of authorized chest rigs an tac vests, etc. But overseas when you are outside the wire aslong as you got good kit that isn't gonna break on you and you look Canadian it's good to go.

So it needs a tactical beer bottle opener? :D

But thats cool that they let you wear what you want. Must it be cadpat only? Or black/green is good?

Coyote, Ranger Green, Cadpat, Marpat.

Most guys I deal with want plain coyote.

in my personal experience it depends on your bosses. here our bosses are really strict and we cant wear thaose fancy chest rigs has to 100% current issue equipment sometimes you can hide it though and get away with wearing a good vest every so often...lol

Yeah I've heard much the same. The Patricias seem to get alot of leeway with kit, but I heard the last Vandoo roto was issued kit only, right down to that ultra-crappy pistol holster.

Yea an when my unit replaced the Vandoos the JTFA commander(Commander of Canadian Forces in Afghanistan) tried to make us wear only issue kit an yea our CO an RSM talked sense into him an he allowed the Battle Group to wear what they wanted. The Strats were strict on themselves though an they had to wear the tac vest, some guys wore their own rig but majority wore the tac vest an I think the same with the 12 RBC guys.

1 RCHA was strict with kit as well over there on 1-08. But my TSM was good shit, he let us wear some non-issue gear over there. Just depends on who your bosses are.

my brother was with the 12RBC, and from the pics he took, the only thing they were wearing was issued to them.

I would look into how the winds are blowing for non issue kit and the past experiences of your particular unit you're going to be deploying with. I've found that as a general rule most combat arms trades allow the use of non issue kit. I know that 3 RCR has given a list of guidelines as to what is acceptable. I'm in a Force Protection platoon and guys are using the HSGI Warlord V4, Blackhawk, 5.11 etc. I use a Tactical Tailor plate carrier with side upgrades and a mishmash of TT and ESSTAC pouches.

Guys in Force Protection are wearing non-issue kit?

On my tour NSE was pretty strict on issue kit only. Only non-issue holsters were allowed.

I know. It was iffy at first whether or not we'd be allowed, and we didn't really know up till deployment. As you said, holster were never an issue. Most of the truckers and maintainers still only use issue stuff, which suits them just fine. The beauty about NSE is that with every tour it's pretty much a brand new organization. My platoon commander goes to bat for us as well...so while we're under NSE, no LOG guy really knows what to say to a bunch of infantry guys as to what they should and shouldn't do.

When CCP comes around, its the guns I'm looking at. Fuckers get everything.

But ya, they also have some gucci kit. I'm 1RCR, new RSM and CO just moved in to prep the BG for 110, so we have no idea what were gonna be allowed. Right now, Christmas is comming and I can at least get something that I can hope to wear.

Again, I'm also a driver, so I'm hoping I'm not stuck in the hatch the whole time, but who knows.

Oh ya, and I'm hoping for a shotty (Breacher Up!), so I need shell holders too.

If you're primary task is going to be a driver don't count on getting anything other than a rifle.

You're starting to remind me of this cartoon:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1...ardolrgiw5.jpg

You can have a rig that's setup for a shotgun, but chances are you'll never get one. Hell, you can have a rig setup for 10 mags, but that doesn't mean you're going to get 10-12 mags. You can have a rig that'll carry everything and the kitchen sink, but as a driver, you probably won't need that much. Listen to what the BTDT's like mike are saying. Something simple, like webbing, that you can toss on and off quickly.

Quite frankly, why spend a fortune on gucci kit, why not just use 82 pat webbing with a few added pouches?

When it gets to the point where they have to use a driver as breacher, the whole mission's already gone pear-shaped and door breaching, killing people, and breaking things will be the least of your worries. you'll be focusing more on your primary task ie. driving your comrades away from the immediate area LOL.

Redhawk Six,what is a "BTDT"?,A thing remember about buying store
bought kit is,make sure it is well stitched and made of material that
can stand up to the punishment.Ask yourself this question,am I willing
risk my life with this stylish looking kit,remember also,the people around
you will be relying on you as well.Buy smart.;)

BTDT - Been there, Done that.

My good buddy is a WO with 1RCR, you're good to go with aftermarket kit outside the wire.

Ask yourself if your prepared to spend some money on an investment on your life.

Listen to the troopies m8, not so much the pure airsofters.

~Grimm