GBB M4's: WA | Inokatsu | WE
 

So recently I've taken a shine to the gbb's.

haha?

Electric motor sounds ... just don't cut it XD
Some nice blowback with a tad of recoil looks and probabaly feels pretty good.

So I have a few questions.

I know WA was the starter of this "bonfire trend" (don't look big enough to me), but the really high rep Inokatsu, and new WE GBB's look to have promise too.

Recently a review for the WE GBB has been posted in the reviews sections and seems to have REALLY poor quality on externals.
I was told by the new Inokatsu owner with the miad full set (we know who that is) that it is THE best brand.
OWNS WA and G&P!
----- does G&P make GBB's? Which brands do?

I'm really concerned about this HFC matter. As we know the duster gas cools mags... not a good thing to have. Which of these brands can handle the new technology of AI and cheap propane from canadian tire?

I watched a few comparisons on realism of the 3 brands listed in the thread title to find Inokatsu the most realistic in terms of measurements and placements of parts. True? Vraiment? Or a total lie?

How about durability?
And... Let's say I want to upgrade the inner barrel. I want a tanio koba, I know you can install those on AEG's and makes sense to be able to on a GBB, but is it? How about RAS/RIS'? What if I was to get the O SOOOO sexy DD mk18 7" RAS from ebaybanned? Can I install it with ease? Stocks?

How about that RA tech adjustable fps GBB bolt carrier thing. Looks cool O_O
Worth it? I know Inokatsus and WE shoot around 500 stock, except WE is pretty deviant and jumps from around mid 300's to well over 500, where the Inokatsu is more of like a slowly declining line until you warm up the mag haha.

No I have not had any previous experience with GBB's, not even pistols, but I've read some of the maintenance FAQ's and they said to oil the mags? Keep a bit of gas? Same goes for the AR GBBs right?

Here's a good start...and there's more than enough info to make your head spin!

http://gasguns.info/forum/

whoa nice =]

kk thnx!

Hey Kev,You forgot to mention the second mortgage that he's going to need :D

To help narrow down your Gas Guns info searching, there was a thread spefically about compatible parts of WA / Ino M4's. I found it useful when I was starting to put my own gun together -

http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55

dont be suckered in by equating high FPS with quality. If your gun is shooting that high, your going to have to use .30g as the bare minimum

reguardless of BB weight, if it's shooting that high, he will have a hard time being allowed to play anywhere.

the best thing to do is read up on gasgun.info.
personally im going to pick up a Prime body with the Prime reciver parts kit, G&P barrel, PGC hop-up, RA-Tech N.P.A.S complete bolt and a bunch of RS parts.

im still waiting for RA-Tech to release thier CO2 mags.

Get the RA-Tech Hopup and Barrel. I did.

1" groupings at 30 ft. with my Ino.

Thank you~~
 

That's not what I meant haha. What I meant is the consistency of the gun due to mag cooling, and declining gas. If it's at 500 fps, even with .3 I'm not gonna be able to play in any games...

Already applied for ;)

Will do some reading on that :)

G&P Barrel?
Can't you use like a tanio koba/prometheus?

Hm... Since I'm probabaly gonna get the variable oblt from RA, is it possible to just build a whole new GBB out of parts? Like for example I know the Inokatsu bodies have engravings, and I'm not really a fan of it, but I really like my G&P metal body with the USMC laser cnc trades.
Can I just buy parts to build the GBB out of that?

Everything for the GBB M4's is completely different from the AEG M4's (Internally anyways)

The guns fire too hot to be used in most places in canada right now... but I'm sure some one will come up with a really good FPS reduction system soon (if there isn't one already)

There is, the RA Tech NPAS. It's adjustable, from like 230 to 500.

but for the ra tech NPAS, it doesn't fit in the inokatsu bolt carrier eh, so I have to spend money on that too...

and for the brands of gbb's we is worst right?

then wa and then inokatsu?

It DOES drop into the stock Ino loading nozzle.

I personally don't like the WE. It feels weird. I like the WA system [WA,G&P,Ino]

Watch for my video on how to smash a WA coming soon.

there won't be a video on how too smash one yet if i can come up with the money first

anyone have access to metal bodies for the WA i really need one bad lol

Why not?

are you serious?
you're going to smash it?

dood I"ll pay you to keep it LOL

It's just sitting here in the box.

Might as well have some fun with it.

Inokatsu and Western Arms M4 GBB's use the same internal system. The Inokatsu M4's have the edge on external quaility, however, and that's why they're retailing more expensive. I don't know of any parts that can't be swapped between them. The G&P ones are just WA M4's with the G&P aftermarket parts installed.

A 'better' gun is hard to nail down. If cost-efficiency is a higher priority than realism, then maybe a WE GBB is the way to go. If you want to invest time and money to make it perfect, or maybe realism is a huge priority for you, then you'd want to start off with an Ino / WA.

They all have blowback and they're all wicked fun to use. They all require more money and care than an average AEG. The rest pretty much comes out in the wash.

Look at your budget, look at the kinds of aftermarket parts available to you, read some of the failures / successes other owners have run into, and spend a lot of time on GasGunsDotInfo. I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting any particular brand of GBB.

Are you sure!!!
According to the RA-Tech website it only fits the Ra-Tech bolt...and if that's the case then you are going to need the RA-Tech bolt carrier as well!
The one thing I hate about the INO bolt/carrier is that they are brand specific and NOT compatible with the WA or Prime bodies!

nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 800 dorras yo
almost 900 how could u do such a thing

oh wow kk
I think I'll do the same as I did for my aeg then. Build from the ground up!

ya that's what I heard on gasgun.info as well. *sigh*
Time to read lots and lots..>~~~

I know someone who could have a lot more of fun with it :(............ :D

The smashing is a direct result of MAD lowballers, and lack of interest.

well...........................

i was told to build my gbb from ground up
so I'm not sure If i shoudls pend the money on that wa?
I need to do some more research before making a descision
Wait up ilke a week beofre smashing?
Next week I"ll have another liek 2.5k to spend on my airsoft =]

We can't discuss this openly here.

But.

You CAN build one from scratch if you'd like, but if you just want a fieldable one, and not an uber realistic collector one, a WA with a few steel internals is a good deal.

Just to let you know, metal bodies are ATLEAST $300.

The website was updated.

When it first came up, it didn't say the " Only mate to RA-Tech nAzzle and bolt carrier"

.....yes.....nAzzle.

whoa... 300 O_O
k i gotta do some calculations tonite LOL

LOl

u better off with a innio and getting the barrel and then when they relase the fps bolt get that and spend the rest on mag's and cool stuff

You rich mofos!

I'm content with a WE :P

But if I ever get the urge to PUNCH it, who knows ;)

Lmao... hahahaha.


Currently also thinking of building a GBB rifle from the ground up. Prime just made the trigger mechanism for the Prime bodies. But damn its all sold out. Anyone know anywhere else they are selling it?

hm...
how about building it ground up?

Building it from the ground up will allow you to place high quality pieces into the gun. I always like to start from scratch and taking it from there. Purchasing piece by piece and slowly putting it together. I heard of some things about the ino, which is diverting me to building my own. Damn cant wait until the summer.

BUILD IT, and they will come...

who who who?? =0

thing is i've been reading on ggi and a lot of ppl say you can't build it ground up cuz a lot of the parts aren't availble =S
true? or is that just an old post?

FALSE!
Prime makes a compleat lower reciver parts kit. it comes with eveything that needs to go into the lower.
all the springs/indents/trigger group, and even a new buffer tube.
the only problem is finding the damn kit as it's sold out almost everywhere. :banghead:
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...l?prodID=26309
http://img.redwolfairsoft.com/upload...WAM4-014-L.jpg

Seriously those bastards need to make more of those! I cant believe people snatch it up so fast.

yea no kidding, i just sent redwolfairsoft.com an email asking them to send me a notice to my email once they get some kits in.
im not holding my breath.

they get snatched up so quick cuz stock wa stock tubes crumple in and some of the internal parts do break so its basicly needed for any of the above is a replacment/preventative matnence thing really. as for ino they are allredy steel internals so they are rock on. i would get that and mags and cosmetic things kits of i had 2.5 grand to spend, if you dont plan to game it then posibly dont need all the ra tech upgrades but having sapre o rings and hop up rubbers would be a safe bet too get. if you just being one of them guys whom like to tinker and build it your self i would hoeslty just get the ino and then take it apart lol. i know its fun to build it your self but its cheeper in the long run for the whole lot pre built saves in shipping too.

K i see that it's made for the WA m4a1, but isn't prime like 1:1 RS? And WA a little less? Or is that just for bodies and bolt carriers

=S be a while 'till i get it then eh =[

=S I plan on plinking and gaming...
Thing is I'm gonna need the RA tech negative w.e system to lower my FPS for games...
What if I built ground up? That wouldn't be cheaper than an Ino? Ino are sold by DW for like 1.8k, pretttttyy expensive yo

Keep in mind that 30 round magazines are $100 each... You're gonna need at least 10 of them.

Good luck on trying to game with a GBB rifle, theres a reason why Toyko Marui made the step into the AEG market, and there's a reason why its been the same ever since.

GBB rifles are a fad, they'll never match the skirmishability and price of an AEG, stop wasting your money on something that will fail eventually.

ya... or I"ll just roll with liek 5 and be super conservative O_O

Well... I have a custom G&P aeg that's pretty nice. I dunno, GBB's are just cool haha... but your comment is making me regret wanting this =S

It's true, and everyone who owns/bought a GBB rifle only knows its a gimmick and fun to plink with, but for the money invested and the inability to use it effectively on the field is ridiculous.

Evolution and Natural Selection brought about the AEG, its funny how all the manufacturers are taking a step back into classic airsoft, they know its a fad and only a quick money maker.

be prepared to not play airsoft during the winter though, gas won't work well(or wont work) at all.

But man, the way you type is so asian LOL.

hehehe go to a game, you'll find 0 people running that kind of system reliably :D

if u plan to game go ino wa/g and p are cheeper at the start but add up if u want to make it gameable im going ino iv been reading and it is the cheepest and most robust. all though 100 a mag go with the 50 rounders and get a rebuild kit for each it will help out in the end. and conscript is right reason a mechbox is here. if u plan on gaming id go aeg imo but gass is adcitive but if u got the cash id go ino very little to change to become a great platform.

ALSO what conscript said and be prepard to have parts on hand and o rings .ect as u will need to replace them their is a tonnn of care needed and in all u will most in all likly hood find u speeding a lot of money repairing it then gaming it. also no one in canada is all that comptent in reparing them so its basicly u and the gun and maby a forums help its new in the sence of the design not the concept. their is a reason why it whent to aegs in the first place.

lol well... 1.8k for inokatsu, or 2.4k for ptw O_O useddddddddddddddddd

ya i'm well aware of that, not really a fan of the cold either way :P

LOL take a look at my pic and guess my ethnicity =]
jkzz~~

eh ya i know thaaaaat, cept dragonwindsor watns to use his lawyer in the FR outdoors O_O watch it not work haha

blah =[
ya maybe......... gbb's later down on the road then?
*sigh* I've been building my custom G&P and I still need that RAS
LOl I built it from the gournd up and almost spent 900 bux already...

when w.e his name was was selling full G&P m4's for 500...
LOL just my mbk and gearbox/motor cost that much LOL

cept the fact apparently mine is legit and his is smuggled O_O

hmm and what if i was to opt out of these gbbs and go for a ptw, I'd really like to go for a challenge kit, cuz I don't relaly feel like paying 2.5k for like a usedone O_O

Classic Airsoft guns are the only GAS guns that'll ever run effectively without cooldown, but even than it takes proper maintainance and care, unless you buy the DaytonaGun Custom with steel internals, than you're set.

But gas in the magazine will always have its cons, if you play indoors alot it'll work fine (if you can tune down the power) otherwise as everyone has said it's just a nice gun to play around with. Only way to solve the issue is CO2 magazines but CO2 Powerlets are expensive =/

also building most guns from the ground up will cost you about a k even for a aeg just because ur eatting the shipping cost's just in shipping for my coustom m4 all in total is was close to 300 bucks. but i also had everything shipped asap and to my door with in 3 to 5 days with coustoms time included so u get what u pay for in the end. but this whole gbb craze is new but their is a lot that needs to be imporved befour u should consider dropping close to 3 k for a decent set up with mags .ect and 2500 for a ptw i dont know were your looking but iv seen them here brand new in box for 1500 and challenger kits as low as 900! u only here about ppl blowing 2400 when they start pimping it out with all rs gear and shuch.

2400 is the approximate price landed here in Canada.

well check on the classifyeds seen them used for 1500 with ris and a few mags and battery to some brand new ones 1500 to 1700 and some compleat pacages for around just under the 2400 but thats with a lot of shit. then their is the time to time deals were u see them for a bit under that.

but this is a moot point this is for gass guns all though they rate uber epic on the cool factor they arnt viable here to game at this point until 3 things happen prices on mags fall and become cheeper a proper way to being it down to a gamable fps(allredy in the works but whom knows maby theirs a better system) and more time to see how long they last and what problems happen what one can expect and need to know.

the classic ones are those crazy ones with backpacks right? pretty much a paintballing gun LOL

Well actually I did a lot of local pickups!

I paied 250 for my metal body, 225 for my gearbox, then I have the stock grip and heatsink motor plate, m120 high speed. G&G Folding stock, CA outer Barrel, G&P M4 S-System style flip sights, CA flash hider, and I'm gonna get a 551 replica, and the Daniel's defense MK18 7" RAS, probabaly an ofset flashlight mount G&P(costs 50! holy crap!!) lol and probabaly a crappy flashlight.

I've never seen those for 1.5k, or 900 O_O If you check like Kevorikan's Used PTW max pretty much stock with no add ons for 2.4 k man O_O
if you find a challenge kit for anything lower than 2k i'll love you forever!!!!~~
that's waht i've been seeing O_O how about challenge kits? I see lots of quebecers with those O_O

I don't see much of ptw's for that price =S

ya... maybe i"ll get a ptw and wait like a few years until this new gbb fad is bigger than ppl expect and prices started plateuing =]
with higher quality parts

This Seller on EBay here in Canada has 500 Powerlets for $174 + $35 shipped. At least on the WE Co2 mags (scheduled for release next month), you get two mags worth from each Powerlet, so thats 1000 mags of C02. Twenty-one cents a mag is more then recharging a battery pack, but not too bad ;)

Just get this, people will drool and run from you.

http://www.spartanimports.com/conten...mart&Itemid=26

It's so big having an external rig won't make much of a difference :P

o0o0o
how does powerlets go on the mags tho? Don't the top sjust puncture and the gas comes out? So you can't really stop it and use it on another mag =S

that thing is huge LOL
nahhh i like m4's =[
I don't really want ppl to run away LOl I want them to actually skirmish and not just sit behind rocks 20 ms away from each other and have a spray fest

the 900 and 1100 dollor prices for a challeneger kit was a fluk and like i said u see them time to time iv yet to see a brand new in box ptw for 2400 since bring av'ed yes their was a time but the rang iv been seing them for are from 1400 to 1900 for the past year

atm the max are goign for 2k-2.4k from what i've seen cuz i'm pretty much new here

lol sent u a pm dont want to disscuss crap like this on the open dont want to break any rules at all

please visit:
Redwolf Airsoft - WA M4 Metal Bodies

Dead link.

I think you might have meant:

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwol...tegory?menu1=8

bugger. my link is junk too. I think your site design is preventing linking to specific menu pages. Anyhow, there are piles of rec'rs under: Accessories - Metal Bodies and slides - GBB

And as your Sig suggests, it's important to check your local import laws. M4 receivers are considered a restricted import into Canada, and likely to be siezed by Customs. Why would you ask a Canadian to buy one from your store?

haha well I wouldn't order one myself, but maybe get one of the retailers too if I really needed to

Ummm... he didnt ask anyone to buy anything. He just told the guy to visit his site.

Visit the website for ... WA GBB metal bodies.

In response to ... his question on where he could get some.

And that's a problem because? Any guesses? Wait for it ... because they're likely to get siezed.

I could probably draw some sort of picture as to why buying a WA GBB metal body from Redwolf would be a bad idea, if you still don't follow me, Stokes.

RA-Tech is working on new cheaper mags fot the WA, they say it's going to cost around $60US and they can use AEG mag outer shells. they are also going to release CO2 mags in April-May. this coupled with the NAPS bolt means that we can lower the FPS and maintain the stronger blowback while using less total gas.
TM switched to AEGs because clasic airsoft guns need external gas tanks which many players didnt like. i wouldt like to have a tank strapped to my back either, and having to use a pump or compressor to fill the tanks sucks. using already compressed gasses in the mags makes alot more sence. at least to me. personally i think its a safer system as the gun can not fire unless it has a mag loaded, and once you use the ammo up in one mag you can quickly switch to a fresh mag. even with cool down i can get almost 100 rounds out of one mag in my WA M4, once we switch to CO2 with the NAPS bolt, im sure that number will go up by quite a bit.
if you like to run around hosing BBs around then these GBBs are not for you. if you are into mil-sim (like i am) then these GBBs are very useable and fun.
it's all personal preference. just like how some player would spend the money to get a PTW over a regular AEG, they are basicly the same in terms of fuction but the PTW is more expencive. if you ask a PTW owner if its worth it they will say yes.
if you ask me if i regret getting a GBB rifle, i'd tell you no i dont, if i want to sprey BBs i have my other two AEGs, i got this GBB for a reason and my reason will be different then that of others. if someone is intrested in these GBB rifles good on them. i'll give them any info i have on them, but i wont try to make the choice for them.

What's with all the jealous haters? Seriously.

I probably know pricing better than anybody here.

If AAAAANYONE can get AAAANYTHING that costs $1100 - $1300 USD for $1500 Can, let me know how, please.

If you want a GBB rifle, buy one.

Don't listen too people that don't have even one. Listen to owners.

These haters will obviously direct away. We won't.

Would you take advice on buying an airplane from someone who's never even been in one, or from a pilot?

I've handled more GBB rifles than anyone here on ASC, I have 2 Inokatsu's, and a WA here right now alone. I love them.

If worse comes to worse, use an AEG.

In the end, just make a choice FOR YOU. If you want it, get it.

Don't let inexperienced people make that decision for you.

^ lol so experienced that you don't know that gas guns don't work in winter time :rolleyes:

+1 on DW's comments. Do your research, decide what is most important to you re. your airsoft experience/expectations, determine a budget, and by how much you WILL EXCEED it before pushing the panic button, then when you feel like there's nothing more you can do to justify the gun, just buy the damn thing and go have some fun. Besides, the only way you're going to know for certain is either borrow someone else's for more than a few minutes, or get one yourself and use it for a season, and then decide if it's going to stay in your armory or go up for sale here on ASC.

I'm both a pilot and a former aircraft owner (making a small fortune in aviation = starting with a much larger one). So, who wants advice...??? http://www.airsoftcanada.com/images/...01_icon_ok.gif


Ready...FIRE...Aim!
'Fly

I don't?

Maybe my 15 GBB's gave me some experience.

I didn't know it would be so cold on the 28th fool.

Go buy some $70 guns and leave the real toys to the men.

And on the 28th, don't look for me, seriously, I'm not a nice guy.

Aww geeze. Why does this keep coming up? Is this some sort of displaced Canadian Identity Crisis? It's not just you, pusangani, but I've heard some extremely abstract arguments against GBB rifles, and seriously, what's with this winter thing?

If our winter season is a problem for propane-propelled airsoft guns, does that mean we should tell people to stay clear from ever buying GBB pistols?

If you can't fire a WE GBB M4 upside down, do you tell a person they HAVE to get the WA GBB M4 instead?

If you can't fire a TM P90 underwater in a swamp, do we tell people to stay away from buying PTW AEG's?

Seriously, unless we all live in exactly the same place on the surface of the earth, play airsoft exactly the same way, and all play at the same place, how do you just arbitrarily declare something as pointless based on your own situation?

It's like beating a dead horse... Again, the only things that should matter are your personal financial situation, how much time you put into airsoft, and how willing you are to upkeep your gun. Those are the only things that actually factor into buying any airsoft gun, GBB included.

For the record my KSC USP fired an entire propane magazine full of BB's with no fuck ups in -15 weather :)

GBB's don't like the cold... but they don't all hibernate.

so to answer my question does anyone know where i can get any metal bodies into canada for my WA ive owned 3 WA m4 gbb and theve always managed to fuck up on me i just need a decent reciever the other upgrade parts i already own such as the bolt carrier hopup chambre hopup tight bore steel hammer 5 bearings 2 mags etc

So many mix reviews. But still getting one someday!

No need to make this into an argument people. We are all friends here, everyone keep calm.

Ya that's true. I really just dont' liek the aegs how unreal they are. And you get pretty much forced to spray with everybody else, cuz... nobody really use tactics and nobody really moves it' sjust like sit behind a rock and spray O_O

damn so many mixed reviews I dunno if I get or not anymore =[ LOL
Well I have an aeg so I guess... Cuz everybody who has aeg's tell me not to get it cuz they get trumped by aeg's but ppl who have gbb's love it. So i guess.. I should justget one =D

ya well put the aeg enthusiasths in an elevator with gbb ones LOL

and I don't really have a boundary for funds as I"m willing to spend a lot ...

question is should I start with an Ino/WA or just build ground up with G&P/Prime body and a Prime lower section? With the ra hopup, barrel, bolt, bolt carrier... blah blah blah?

Gas guns have the potential, just none of the manufacturers over there have got it in their heads howta do it right :P

There's the new Tokyo Marui SOPMOD you just can't field strip it like a GBB Rifle.

Dragate, considering that you're NEW to the sport I would avoid building a gun up from scratch.

If you want a gas gun and have the $$$ to spend get the Inokatsu (you might as well) and than dump in all the RA-TECH upgrades.

Once the more affordable 12G CO2 magazines come out than you'll be able to field it in the winter too, just make sure you keep your o-rings lubed so they don't harden up and crack!

The only downside right now to GBB Rifles is that you can't share your magazines, and since they cost so much you're going to be cautious of just dumping them anywhere so you'll need a dump pouch ....a big one.

How would you know this? You haven't played a game yet.

It all depends on the location and the group you play with... I know here in manitoba people don't just camp behind rocks and spray...

... And how would having a GBB rifle change other people's gaming habits?

:P Like I said, Play a season or two with an AEG, all the while save up for your big GBB M4 project.

bcuz apparently all AEG's are restricted to full-auto only :rolleyes:

hm maybe i'll jsut wait like 2 years XD wait for most of the development =]
just hope the laws don't tighten up more by that time

ya not first hand, but that's waht I hear from ppl and I've seen a few youtube videos, which isn't saying much~~

But think about it, if you had 300 roudns vs a guy who had max 50... me personally i would just spray him down LOL

LOl didn't mean it that way

that's IF they are running hicaps, most players use midcaps, locaps or realcaps...

I love the idea of gbb rifles, and the realism and simplicity they offer. A gun with no wires is a big plus. But presently the cost of mags is keeping me out, I found the $100 I just dropped for 4 RealSword mags tough to swallow, can't imagine spending that much just for one gbb mag. They are sweet though, that's for sure.

i stated the following iv seen them from theys prices never said brand new in box most of them were used but were in great condtion then iv seen total pacages go for the higer marks but mostly brand new one's run 17 here and i hope u know i was speaking of ptw's right. ppl get so pissy.

k personally i have 4 KA locaps one midcap, but you know... there are always those noobs with their krakens and their hi caps...
i woudln't be able to do shiat just sit behidn a rock until they wind/reload lol

yesssss~ exactly
like everyone on gasgun.info is all liek selling out their aegs cuz they just love the gbbs after they get it
i'm pretty sure i'd be the same
it' sjust the realism and it' sjust so cool O_O

I just sold 4 AEGs and 2 GBB pistols among other things of mine just to afford my Inokatsu project with full ra-tech upgrades, accessories and 7 magazines. The realism and realistic field stripping rekindled my interest in playing airsoft again, and I am glad I made the purchases and sacrafices in order to get there :D

lol who you calling noob...noob?

anyways, the point is that yes while there are noobs with krakens and hicaps etc. there are WAY more experienced players who do not fall into this category, who love the milsim aspect of reloading etc.

and then there are those who use midcaps/locaps and still spray alot, there's no way to change these guys, but you can avoid it by going to games that have ammo rules, buying a GBB rifle is not going to solve this problem, you just do you, nothing can replace good ole real life experience, don't listen to a bunch of chairsofters who have never been to a game in their lives :)

cheers!
Pus

There's plenty of stuff you can do...

Me and 4 of my team mates have taken a completely fortified bunker from 5 enemies :)

You just have to learn how to play...

It's not every day you see people pepper potting in airsoft... but goddamn is that ever effective!!

true true
still I guess I'll sit on my 2 year thing. Wait two years, get some nice airsofting experience before making a decision...

pro pro.
Ya I guess. It's just vids on the internet really discourage me. Makes airsoft look pretttty bad.
But then again, still gotta try it formyself right

It seems Airsoft at paintball fields is MUCH different from airsoft in the bush :)

Paintball field airsoft is much more like trench warfare... where outdoor airsoft is much more... "Milsim"

Alright well the verdict is:

I need more time and expereince =]

and on the side of GBB's, for anyone else having the same questions:

First off gasguns.info.

And comparison of three brands, WA is the benchmark, and Later came the Inokatsu and WE. WE is at the bottom of the list atm due to quality but is very skirmishable. WA has plastic bodies and innards, thus needs replacing to play, so better to just get Inokatsu.

GBB's are fairly new on the market and have yet to advance. New technologies from G&P, Prime, RA tech and other brands such as GHK and stuff are making parts/gbbs. WETTI are comming out with lots of new parts and even different fps bolts.

Some GBB's fire 500 fps out of the box or higher. Thus ineed of downgrading for fielding. This probabaly leads you to RA tech. A Taiwanese company building lots of new parts and custom GBBs. Very good company comming out with a cheaper alternative to WA/Inokatsu/G&P mags. Mags from WA are costing 100USD atm, and RA tech claims to be sellign them at 60 USD at release.

Hop ups and bolts tend to have lots of problems and there are quite a lot of feeding problems atm.

GBBs in the old fashined sense, the old guns, overtaken by aegs, but now Gbbs are back with the gas in the mag, more realistic. They are still advancing and a lot of us hope to have the price lower, the gun more reliable and lots of more parts.

Currently G&P and Prime make bodies for these guns that are sold separately with marks of your choice.

At this momment in time in airsoft, AEGs will outperform GBBs on almost all levels except for takedown and of course blowback/recoil realism. For skirmishibality, AEGS will rock GBBs most of the time, and all GBBers know that. AEGs have higher rof, good range and accuracy, along with the possibility of hi capacity magazines and no restrictions in weather as cold mags will slowdown the performace and maybe to a point it doens't function.

Main point is, the new GBBs are pretty much indevelopment and not a lot of info is on them.

I hope this thread/info from it can be turned into a new faq, because when I started reading at first about GBBs, took me about 5 hours to get the jist, and am still pretty clueless. =]
Add some info? Edit? NEW FAq? =D

And along came KJW M4 GBB's -
http://www.intrudershop.com.tw/show_...oduct=1331#top
YouTube - KJM4 1
YouTube - KJM4 2

Taiwan must love GBB long arms.

Apparently, "the [blowback] isn't as strong as WA, but it's stronger than WE", and "the official release is currently Mid-May".

Another alternative to choose from means greater affordability to the consumer. For a "fad", these manufacturers seem to be putting in a lot of time and money into GBB rifles...

The KJW M4 GBB is the Tanio Koba C8 Canadian.

I guess Mr. Koba decided to market his gun to a larger company to mass produce since it cost a fortune over in Japan and the wait times to get it took forever not to mention the fact that it was designed as a collectors gun.

Don't know if this would be a skirmishable gun =/

The KJW looks like it has worse cooldown than both the WA and the Ino

I am in the process of getting a used G&P GBB M4, I am told at the moment there are some issue with worned stock bolt carrier and such. I am wondering about the effect of upgrade parts might have on it. Specifically I am looking at the complete bolt assembly from RA-Tech, with steel carrier and aluminum nozzle. Should I be looking at replacing other parts if I were to get this, to prevent adverse wear of the steel bolt? How is the hop-up assembly on these stock G&P item, do they already have the G&P replacement hop-up(is there need for those replacement hop-up?). In terms of the bolt, how much of an impact to blow-back and rate of fire would the steel bolt incur, and how would that compare to say, the Airsoft Surgeon aluminum bolt? Whats the stock WA/G&P bolt carrier made of anyway?

Don't know much about most of that, but I am 90% sure it has the upgraded hop up unit, which is a good thing. Apparently the stock one leaves something to be desired.

You can also consider getting RA-Tech's softer bolt catch. They have two - a steel one and a softer version to reduce wear on the bolt. It's cheap enough to buy several to replace as time goes on.

As far as ROF goes, gas consumption will go up and ROF will definitely go down with the steel bolt, but on my Inokatsu, I'm still getting about 817RPM on propane, which is still in the realm of real steel ROF. I'm also in the process of getting the RA-Tech plastic bolt/nozzle set, which should lighten the assembly while maintaining the harder steel bolt carrier. Blowback power goes WAY UP with a steel bolt, at the expense of higher gas consumption. Make sure you have the proper buffer spring to accommodate the added power.

The AS aluminum bolt will obviously have higher ROF and lower gas consumption with weaker blowback, but you will need to consider wear against it from harder parts such as the hammer, bolt catch and even the magazine.

In terms of buffer spring, whats recommanded to go with the steel bolt? I figure if the gun I am receiving have issues with bolt and hop-up I might just replace both of those with RA-Tech item...

The hardest spring possible... RA-Tech summer spring would be fine.

BTW, what stock dimension does G&P use? I don't know if it is the same as WA or Ino, I've heard both Commercial and Mil-Spec......

rock a real steel AR buffer spring. iv heard it works well on WA/GP based guns