Hi-Capa - SVI Strayer-Voigt Infinity Firearms Duo Tone Sight Tracker with Butler Stirrup Cut
 

This one took me almost a year to build, but the result is worth it. I have some insane plans for this bad boy in the future, but for now, it shoots absolutely perfect:

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...7/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...8/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...9/original.jpg

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http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...1/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...2/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...3/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...4/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...5/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...6/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...7/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsof...8/original.jpg

There are just some very small minor details to *tweak* this build to completion, such as the SV badging on the grip, as well as the imitation cross-bolts that hold the frame to the grip.

Other than that, she shoots nice. Would like to get an actual SVI Trigger Bow on there, but... in due time. As well as a steel polished frame, real steel metal grips, a secondary open division upper.... mmm...

Sweet! I was wondering why there was no logo on the grip, and fake screws until I saw that little information on the bottom. LOL

I'm jealous.... I think I'll buy one of your pistols (as soon as I get AV'ed (next year) and as soon as I get enough money....)

so it shoots now huh?

you are getting those CNC grip for this AND getting steel mid-frame made? man this is going to be a $5K gun...

Holy mother of pistols, don't get chubbies for pistols but wow a real stunning build you have there. Don't want to know the price tag on that piece.

Well done :)

Tight setup. Something about the trigger doesn't do it for me...but I'm digging the magwell/mag-plate combo.

How's the hybrid setup working out re. protecting the slide from being smashed by the outer barrel?

It shoots perfect. Full blowback with slide lock on the rear of the cycle. I was quite surprised. It shot like crap with the busted slide, and I thought the valve knocker was still mucked.

I thought I'd have to do more work once the slides and barrel came in, but as soon as I dropped it in, she fired like a dream. Very hard, fast and crisp blowback.

And yes... I'd like to get a custom steel receiver made, with mounts to attach a real steel grip, which would not only look the cray zay, but I'll be able to use the real SVI trigger bow, SVI trigger loop, real main spring housing and real SVI enlarged mag well. ... omg, jizz in my pants

Another brilliant and beutiful peice of work Illusion, /applaud

Yeah, I don't like the trigger in it's current state either, but it's the closest I can get to it looking like the SVI trigger. Like I stated above, I'd like to mount a real SVI trigger bow in here.

It's great so far. There is almost no visible impact damage at this point, but then again, this pistol hasn't had much mileage put through it yet. That last practice session we had for CAPS was the first time I really put some rounds through it, and even still, I didn't go too nuts with it.

The impact is very well spread out with this setup. This outer barrel was manufactured long before the new design that's being produced right now, but this should do the job just fine. With the additional impact lug, slide damage is not much of a worry, however, there is a bit of concern that the constant hammering of the slide against the barrel will cause the SighTracker stack to break its welded bond from the outer barrel.

The sight tracker being the big lug at 12 o'clock? That's just welded on and not part of the machining? Yikes!

"welded" with epoxy or brazed together? If the epoxy breaks loose and you score a Delta with the lug:D....you could always just epoxy it back on. There's some trick epoxies that are made for contant vibration environments...they cure with a little ductile-ness (?) instead of "strong as a rock right up until it cracks" hardness. But I don't know...

It's not the shear strength...it's the fatigue that get's these GBBs.

Yeah, "Sight Tracker" is just SVI's terminology for the technology that keeps the front sight stable and not moving relative to the barrel.

It supposedly allows for faster sight pickup since it doesn't move. It allows you to "track" the sight. oooooo.... clever name.

I have a feeling it's epoxied on, as there are no brazing marks.

Anyways, we'll see what happens with this. If it breaks, I may be forced to bond it back on with a compensator on the front to create a 5th lug. ;)

I got how they came up with the name :rolleyes:...reminds me of bomber gun sights that were just a line down a barrel.

Drill some "speed holes"/ports. Tap w/ threads and use drilled through allen head grub screws. Expoxy those in place. Then you'd end up with mechanical bond through and through. It'd be fiddly to do though.

If you've got a lost-cause broken one...I'll give it a shot on the mill.

OR....go full out with a under-lug, rail mounted, swiss-cheesed, monolithic bloc comp...spring loaded to push the barrel back and assist with rapid cycling...............................(oh wait....that was robocop's gun! LOL)

I've created a monster....

I can't see some of the creations you'll pump out with your lathe/mill.

btw, I can still get slide blanks. ;)

so you've changed your slide/barrel again since the we saw it at the match last time? because it wasn't shooting at the time....

so it locks back too huh?

No.... I didn't change anything except the mag.

At the time, I was still using an unmodified valve knocker, which as you know, sticks a bit in to the mag wells and requires you to rack the slide before inserting a mag, otherwise it'll get blocked.

Problem is, I have some of my mags tuned with high flow valves that allow you to customize the height of the strike face. Some of them I have tuned so close to the edge, that it just did not work in this gun. When I tested it that day, it was with one of those mags and I did not think to try a different mag - I just assumed the valve knocker was too long.

Out of the 5 mags I have, 3 of them work fine, so the choice is to either re-tune the valve heights, or just take down the valve knocker length, which is the better of the two options.

Yep, blows back very hard and crisp through almost the entire mag.

I think you need to polish the trigger silver, then it should probably look fine

Silver trigger probably will add some contrast to it...

btw would you get special pricing if you had them make 2 of these frame in steel...:D

I actually HAVE one here in silver, but I stuck to the black one, because the real one I was modeling this from has a black trigger:

http://www.sviguns.com/photo_gallery/68.jpg

hmm... it's possible. Hit me by PM if you're interested. Let's see what we can do.

Actually... nevermind. No, it can't be done.

(I want to be the only one with this sweet ass build.... pwuahahaha)

all I want is a heavier frame...I'll stay away from the alloy grip...I promise....lol

Might just get a AS spec steel frame....not anytime soon though...gotta finish my M4 first...

in due time... i'm nowhere near being able to purchase it yet. The ideas brewing in my head right now are a bit scary.

its a painful feeling that eats away your inside? lol

That gun is pure sex... lmao

Illusion and Racing Maniac - you two are confusing me.

Were you guys talking about the new SVI or STI Steel or Aluminum Grip?
Or just a regular SVI polymer grip?
Either way, it won't work. I'll make a list as to why if you want.

You could do one or two things to get a close replica grip.
For the SVI medallions:
You have Captain KK custom cut you some TM grips for the SVI medallions.
Then you can use either the SD sticker SVI medallions or use ProG4's aluminum CNC's medallions. Then use TruGrip Grip tape.
For the trigger guard screws:
You can drill out the fake plastic heads off the stock TM grip, then glue on the SD screw heads.
OR, if you are really gonna get a steel upper frame, then you should get the custom frame/grip set. It has the trigger guard drilled out to use real trigger guard grip screws and attachment, instead of the normal TM screw through the top of the frame setup.

Real Steel SVI or STI magwells DO fit stock TM grips. They require a little fitting on the back sides, but not much. I have a real steel magwell on my race gun.

I'm pretty sure the sight tracker is tack welded from the inside to the barrel.

I think you meant that the "sight tracker" is way the sight is mounted to the barrel (rather than the normal slide mounted sight). It keeps the sight from moving with the slide.


I still love the Dual Stainless Mags with 5.1 bases. I wish I had the money to do that. I was thinking I would do the same thing when I need to get new mags, but now they got those 50 rnd mags coming out! I want the 50 rnd mags instead :)

What mag pouches are you using?
And what is the Butler Stirrup Cut you are referring to in your title?
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm detail picking.
That is a hot ass replica. And it would be awesome if you had a matching Open upper for it.

The 3 stripe(like Adidas? lol) cut on the front serration that extend down to the frame from slide, I think the name referred to that was the Butler style cut...

personally I don't need RS grip, but I want a steel frame down the line....heh

I thought those were Xcelerator or FreeForm Cuts... one of the two.

I'm talking about the new SVI Steel grip. RacingManiac is talking about the SVI polymer grip.
Please explain why it won't work. I'd like to see your list, because I believe I already have all of the issues covered. It does require a bit more extra components besides the custom frame & real grip, including the trigger guard cross bolts and custom mag catch.
Not really going to give any more details of the conversion yet, till I get it done.

This was what I was originally going to do till my head spun with ideas and worked some things out. I even have the TruGrip sitting here and collecting dust. I probably won't use it anymore if I can get this project done right.
It all started with an obscure post in a Japanese airsoft forum.

Is that not just a paraphrase of what I said? The front sight is not moving relative to the barrel... because it's attached to the barrel.

3x CR Speed
1x Ghost

I believe it refers to the shortened scallop cut on the slide mated to the extended angled dust cover. I've tried researching the term for a while, and found no direct explanations, but it seems like "Butler Stirrup Cut" or "Butler Style Stirrup Cut" are always terms linked to builds that have the features I just described.

I agree, with your terminology on the "Xcelerator Fluting" - I've seen SVI refer to the matched slide/frame serrations as "Xcelerator fluting" or "FreeForm Cuts", which is why I did not think that was the "Butler Stirrup Cut."

Are the Hicapa Master's light sabers coming out?

;)

Actually, Illusion is one of my favorite people to talk to and bounce around ideas. There aren't many people into Hi-Capa's as we are. We're not picking fights - we're picking brains... :)

Illusion-
I still think your statement about the sight tracker is confusing. I believe the front sight DOES move relative to the barrel because it is attached to the barrel. It does NOT move relative to the slide, because it is attached to the barrel.
...Doesn't really matter to me, I understand what you meant. I just want to make sure others understand.

So my "list" as to why the real steel grip won't work was just a euphemism.
And I hastily stated that it won't work...I meant that it would be a LOT of work + money to do it well...if at all.
I didn't really want to go into details. But.....
I assume the Japanese article you are referring to is this? :
http://www.media-juggler.co.jp/~tak/...APA/index.html

I think that is just a sloppy hack job on a $120.00 + grip. And a Steel CNC'd grip - OMG those things are freakin $300 +
I just wouldn't want to waste that much money, to find out.
The real SVI trigger bow is not the same, and the sear/disconnector set up + leaf spring are all different than TM's design...actually, almost completely backwards. You'd basically need a machinist to do this job.
So unless Mr. Lam has already done this, I think you'd have some difficulty on your own.
But more power too you if you can succeed. That would be the most beastly custom ever!

I was thinking the same thing about the Butler Stirrup Cut.
It's kinda like a Commander cut, but even shorter, higher and a bit more angle.
I just can't find the "Butler Cut" on SVI's website. And from what I've read (hearsay), this was a custom cut designed by Taran Butler.

Don't mind Steve... he's just lonely because he has nobody to talk to about all his WAs. LOL



Your statement is illogical, as it seems my understanding of the word "relative" is reversed from your understanding of the word.

You stated:
"the front sight DOES move relative to the barrel because it is attached to the barrel.
It does NOT move relative to the slide, because it is attached to the barrel."

By saying that, you are in effect, saying to me:
"the front sight moves TO/FROM the barrel because it is attached to the barrel.
It moves WITH the slide, because it is attached to the barrel."

Both parts of that statement are logically impossible... because if the sight is attached to the barrel, how can it move to or from the barrel? And if it's attached to the barrel, how can it move with the slide if it is in fact, attached to the barrel?

To me, "relative" means "compared to, as a reference point." So if the sight is fixed to the barrel, then it's NOT moving relative to the barrel, but is moving relative to the slide. OR, it can also be proposed that the sight is not moving at all, is fixed, and the slide is doing the movement, relative to the barrel and the sight.

Another way of saying it with my understanding of the word is:
If I'm sitting on a bus headed towards a destination, I'm not moving anywhere relative to the seat in the bus. In fact, I'm just sitting right there. But relative to the DESTINATION, I am in fact, moving towards the destination (and by extension, so is the bus, since I am fixed to the bus through relativity.

And yet another way of saying it:
The Earth is constantly spinning and moving relative to the sun, and although the inhabitants and objects may be sitting still relative to the Earth, they are in fact moving at ALL times relative to the sun.

Any physics students want to back me up on this? lol.


------------

Anyways, onward...

Regarding that Japanese article, that one you linked isn't the one I saw... the one I saw actually showed off a custom Zeke conversion kit that allows the user to attach a real grip. Unsatisfied with the solution, I sought out a more permanent option, especially since the required parts for the conversion were so little and the mods to the grip/frame were so few that I didn't see why ProG4 COULDN'T just make a frame with all the changes required already implemented, along with the inclusion of the custom mag catch and the loop for the trigger guard to attach to.

So I queried Captain KK, and based on his response, it sounds like, Mr. Lam has in fact been able to fit real steel grips to a custom frame.

You are correct about the real Stirrup being different than the Marui one. Some notes passed on to me:

(1) The Marui Trigger & Stirrup will fit in to a real grip (a little tight but works.)
(2) The real trigger and trigger stirrupwill work with Marui Hi-Capa once the real grip is installed.

Based on the original article I read, there were only a few mods required in order to fit the Marui leaf spring, and as long as that's used, then you do not need to concern yourself with the way a real disconnector/sear works.

Regarding finding "Butler Stirrup Cut" on SVIGuns.com:

http://www.sviguns.com/showcase/i.php?indx=70

"OR, it can also be proposed that the sight is not moving at all, is fixed, and the slide is doing the movement, relative to the barrel and the sight."
That sounds more like what I was trying to say.

1rel·a·tive : a thing having a relation to or connection with or necessary dependence on another thing.
Being that the sight is connected to the barrel and only moves with the barrel - not with the slide.
:banghead: HAHA. We could probably discuss this alone for hours. Good thing we don't talk on the phone. It can't be cheap calling Canada.

The only "article" I've seen on the conversion has been the one I posted.
If Mr. Lam is involved I believe that the grip conversion can be done well.
If I could find a steel SVI grip used/cheap I'd get one and have him hook it up. But I wouldn't touch it myself...unless I had enough money to get another after f-in up the first one :)
I'd have to guess you'd be looking at around $500 to do this though.

Ouch! Struck down by a single blow
from the Jedi master! :)

Haha.

Correct, so with that said, the word is used as such:

The sight is NOT moving RELATIVE (connected to) the barrel. This is understood by both of us in the layman term "the sight is fixed to the barrel." Usage of the word "relative", is such that the items are not moving to/from each other through relation.

The two items are connected through relation... the sight is not moving compared to the barrel. If you are the barrel, and I am the sight, and we're shaking hands, we are not moving to or from each other, because we are now related. Unless we're doing a gay jig or dance with each other, it's hard to move "relative" to each other, as long as we are related through that hand shake. (In a micro system viewed from a macro system, even if we WERE doing a gay jig, we would not be moving to/from each other, even though in our little micro system, you and I may sway back and forth from each other or side to side by 1cm. etc.)

However, the slide IS moving RELATIVE to the barrel
So by extension:
IF the sight is not moving relative to the barrel
AND the slide is moving relative to the barrel
THEN it is correct to say that the sight is moving relative to the slide through transitive properties.

Or in the analogy I touched on above, if the slide is represented by the BBs whizzing around you (relative to you), then by extension, they are also moving relative to me, as you and I are connected by shaking hands. I am not moving with the BBs (I can't run 400fps), so it can be said that the BBs are moving relative to me.

I was a physics major. I used this word for 4 years. I hope I used it properly for all that time... LOL.

I agree :)

But, the whole reason I started this is because you negated the movement of the sight...
saying sight does not move relative to the barrel...

I think this is the way you should have stated it from the start.
"the sight is not moving at all, is fixed, and the slide is doing the movement, relative to the barrel and the sight."
- I agreed with this statement, and your original statement. Only in that I changed the wording based on the variance in the definition of the word relative. Which was the reason for my second statement.
I would normally speak of relative movement referring to the mass that is in motion.
Not negating the movement of the stationary object...because we already know it's stationary.





I am NOT a physics major - therfore you win. I have no idea what I just stated ..... LOL.

Alright. so then it's settled.

The sight doesn't move. The slide moves. The gun looks nice. And now I'm poor. LOL.

Oo oo oo. Does that mean I'll be able to fit a real steel SVI steel cnc'd grip before you????

J/K - I'm poor as crap too. :(

But you have a steel frame on one of your guns. You win.

THAT'S why you're poor. lol