Clearsoft GBBR's are here
 

The rumours are true I guess, they are here.

YouTube - M4 GBBR by KJ Works / Tanio Koba

If they work as good as the G&G AEG clearsoft guns, they should be pretty good. Nice to see some more options coming down the pipe.

MSRP under $500CAD, including 2 magazines. Not a bad price at all. However I've not heard anything about the KJW/TK M4 GBB yet. So we'll have to see. I'd rather get one of the WE SCAR GBBRs with the clear body

DUDE!!!! More for the canadian market!!! This has to be exciting, all this attention from companies only means good things for the market we live on!!! Ya, ya now comes the hate on clear lowers but lets deal with the government after we stop green house gasses okay?

KJW actually has experience making GBB's so these should be good :)

LOL this gun has problem found if you look at arnies its about 1/2 as much as the WA with 0 third party support.
I'd stick to my plan -Prime/RA-Tech M4 aka Magna M4 build from scratch

If I have enough $$ I might see how it fairs against Magna.

Oh and KJW m4 shoots wayyy too hot if I remember right numbers are 450fps for a M733 barrel (yes it doesnt go full way) RA-Tech (biggest third party GBBR support) is not planning any support for this they're sticking to WA, GHK AK and now beginning WE.

Just being the devil's advocate let me give you the cons:
*Plastic Receiver can crack in winter if CO2 mag does make it to market, it is also more suspectible to abuse
*fps, you're gonna need to get like a CQBR or length to get fps down, as its the only way right now
*Support/ Market. I could understand why KJW do this, KJW GBBR is like the least popular compared to WE and Magna type (its the last one out I admit, but scar seems more popular even though it release later than KJW/ TK)
*Replacement Parts: no matter which system of GBBR something will give up after round count, WA - pick your favorite manufacture, WE -bug WETTI they will support ya (I wish WA is like that)

In my money spending I would perfer a WE SCAR, why? because WE has the most aggressive plans for other replica system. They've unveiled hk416, KAC PDW, began other numerous one, but mostly revovles around the use of STANAG which is the biggest plus.

wow, you did your homework, I'll take that back then, at least until I hear some reviews from people on ASC

looks cul!!cant wait to get one if it was an L85A1....LOL~

Only because CAS has exclusive rights with KJW ...thanks Ken ;)

FYI from what I heard about the Tanio Koba C8 Canadian from Japan they were overpriced and only for collectors, but who knows now that it's been mass produced.

Hope this link works,

YouTube - M4 Tanio Koba / KJ WORKS GBB - FULL AUTO NO MERCY TEST

90 odd rounds full auto ,no cool down .

That is actually impressive for a gas gun.

I am so going to get myself one of these. (prob will never game it though lol.)

+1. I will probably wait for the second batch though. Anyone have an ETA?

I heard ETA is around November.

im a litte confused. what exactly is cool down? i thought i knew, but now im not too sure.

From what I understand it's exactly like what it sounds like.

Due to the gas in the mag expanding it "cools down" (simple high school physics, compressed gas gets heated up, and when it expands it cools down) and results in a lower FPS. Only way to stop it is to keep the mag at a constant temperature (or at least try to) and shoot in single shot.

If you notice when using those mini green Coleman propane tanks if you go camping they feel cold after you've been using it for a while to cook food (sometimes it gets so cold as to form "ice"). Reason is the liquid propane is expanding into gas and getting fed into your propane stove so that you can light it on fire and cook your food.

I don't think that video demonstrates cool down at all. Now if you were to chrono before and after and there was little difference then I could see that there is no/little cood down but that video just shows a stress test.

im a little confused on one point.

If you have liquid propane, and it turns to gas. doesn't that mean its technically heating up? as you have to cool it down to make it into a liquid (i.e.: LIQUID nitrogen is colder than nitrogen gas). but i understand the point. essentially, the propane, through constant firing will lower the temperature of the internals of the gun, causing lower FPS etc. Thanks :)

And the gun being used, i take it was the all black version of the gun Ken is advertising correct?

Heat transfer towards the liquid to boil into gas means the ambiant heat in the mag goes there

Well I don't know the intricities of it since I'm not a physics major however yes you're right liquid nitrogen is colder than nitrogen in it's gaseuos form (otherwise we'd have a big problem seeing as 78% of the atmosphere is made up of nitrogen).

I don't think it works that way exactly since what's keeping it in it's liquid form is actually pressurization not it just being really really cold.

Also yes it looks like it's the black version of the gun Ken was showing off (same name and model).

EDIT: Surebet is right I forgot about endo/exothermic stuff. Take it simply as you need to "boil off" the liquid nitrogen but how do you do that without energy? You take it from the surrounding area/objects of course.

Since the pressure is higher in the tank/mag, the vaporization points gets higher so that it stays under a liquid form at ambient temperature. When you release it in and it gets ambient pressure, the vaporization points decreases, so it expands and become gas again. Due to the change of pressure inside the canister (because you remove some mass), it changes the temperature. Simple maths.

PV = nRT

where P = pressure in KPa
V = Volume
n = moles
R = constant (8,31)
T = temperature in Kelvins

You didn't follow your classes in college? ;)

Liquid to Gas is an endothermic reaction
Gas to Liquid is an exothermic reaction think of this way in a phase change the molecule is refusing to change temperature by changing state

Crim/History Major. No science (haven't done chem stuff since grade 10). We focus on complex thought and critical thinking in my program (i.e.: Bullshit) :p

but thanks for the info.

Well, don't call it endothermic or exothermic reactions, since they are not reactions, just physical phase changes. One requires the input of heat, the other gives out heat as the process occurs. This is due to the latent heat of vaporisation and the latent heat of condensation, respectively (the heat required or the heat evolved from the evaporation or condensation of a fluid)

yup.... ujiro is right on the spot.
as the gas cools, it becomes more dense, exerting less pressure and lowering the rof and fps.

lets just summarize everything with Cool Down is when through rapid firing, the internals of the gas weapon "freeze up" (i.e.: lowers in temp.), resulting in lower FPS

the gas in the magazine cools down. The internals of the gun are unaffected. And the rof drops too... obviously.

gotcha http://www.airsoftcanada.com/images/...01_icon_ok.gif

question this is about Clearsoft/ Cansoft/ crapsoft GBBR why are we talking chemistry of phase change?!?
Back to topic guys....
Just check the price, it looks pretty similiar to AEG -> Canada. You can probably get a full metal black one for ~$800 using a rough formula I figure out how retailer charges. WE SCAR is like what? $950? so in a sense I guess the clearsoft is a lil worth it....until clear SCAR release (I would be all over that...and spray paint)

I agree, BUT the problem is that being a KJW, it isnt compatible with all the already out upgrades and replacements for WA or WE (and clones), so its cool for and plinking, but for collecting, its clear, and for gameability... see above.

So... its cool, but Im not sure how its worth it.

Is it at least compatible with WE or WA for its mags?

They scrapped the clear SCAR project.

From the 007 website:

props to ken. I wasn't even considering getting a gbbr but now I'm thinking about it as a possibility in the future. I'd game a clear lower gbbr. :p

Sweet baby! I saw the Tanio Koba in Redwolf a few weeks ago and was curious about it. Can't wait to see Ken stocking up on some of these.

holy jesus it looks weaker in recoil but makes up for it in performance absolutly no slowing of the rof

Will those mags work in my Inokatsu?

what?! Why? Since when?

Sorry, but what does GBBR stand for? (Gas Blow Back....R? lol)

Rifle

the upper on a SCAR needs to be clear like an MP5. There are a few here already and a few retailers say they have more coming in with clear lowers but I wouldn't except more after that. WETTI said they don't want to do a "proper" clear version.

That's right. Thier SCAR (just as the RS one) has a polymer lower and a metal upper. Making a clear version of the polymer lower is quite easy, as they can use the same molds and all. But they would need new molds to create a polymer upper, and it's not worth it.

Any idea for mags compatibility on this Koba+KJW GBBR?

Why would the upper need to be clear also?

No. The upper is whats restricted just like on the MP5 since that's what carries the serial number. The lower is fine so they can use the same mould, just need to use clear plastic but the upper they would need to make a whole new mould for it.

It's nicer having the lower clear as you still get the nice metal upper like a proper scar has, and you can then paint the plastic tan or black etc.

That's right, but our fucking laws prevents this, yey.

Ken, is there any other models coming (and standard mags if possible) or will we have to always base ourselves on this one to get different builds?

Hey everyone,

Pretty stoked about this too and found some good stuff over from Arnies Airsoft:


Complete breakdown and review

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...=171349&st=140

Firing report:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...=171349&st=160

First major malfunction (after 2000+ rounds, no lube)
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...=171349&st=200

Gun still firing with broken piece and what he has to say about its firing:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...=171349&st=220

I don't understand a lot of the technical bits (never handled a GBBR let alone a GBB) but so far it seems pretty promising.


Cheers

Looks good, performs poorly.

It's like buying a WA or AGM with almost zero third party parts/support.

People gotta stop saying this. It's front end is 100% TM compatible, just 0 third party internal wise, but that may change by the time they start coming out (in canada)

Yeah because TM front ends are so great:rolleyes: Say what you want, but compare to G&P/KA, TM accessories are crap.

WA/AGM/G&P already have a pretty good third party support.
WE is getting there, more and more things available (still poor compare to the above).
TK has almost nothing, and it's not like they are brand new, they have been around for awhile.

It's up to the end user to see what he wants, but with most airsofter loving to customize, most will go with a WA/AGM/G&P.

Don't you know that KA front ends ARE TM compatible...

That is the WHOLE point.

Front "TM" means I can install a Madbull Noveske 10" handguard with a CQBR one piece barrel.

It's OK, excuse him being dumb.

True, didn't think of it that way but just 'it only fits TM front end'.

TK GBBR just went up a notch.

Yes please do excuse me, i haven't touched my bed in almost 2 days.

He's been downloading too much since he learned a few new tricks of the interwebs. No time for sleep.

Dude its not the front end thats breaking, ITS THE INTERNAL.
Oh gosh.....What is the ETA for WE G36 or should I call it the WE36 (they're actually doing it, not some nimrod modding scar)
We really need to get polymer style GBBR so it doesn't seem so far fetch.

Fuck... I went to the second page and saw tomorrow mornings Science review... The attention the Canadian market is getting is really good. Looking forward to the new products coming out before Christmas...

Wait, that sucks!
You can't shove a RS front end onto that thing.

Since everybody is talking about clear body GBBR for canada, here is another one.

WA copy, this is a prototype, not the final version yet.

http://d8bgdw.blu.livefilestore.com/...A/IMG_1695.jpg
http://d8bgdw.blu.livefilestore.com/...A/IMG_1696.jpg
http://d8bgdw.blu.livefilestore.com/...Q/IMG_1699.jpg
http://d8bgdw.blu.livefilestore.com/...Q/IMG_1700.jpg
http://d8bgdw.blu.livefilestore.com/...A/IMG_1702.jpg

Thats awesome. At least with WA-copy, you can start with that, then, as parts break (which they will), you can replace, and eventually save up enough to buy an aftermarket receiver.

upgrade and then save money to upgrade,

airsoft in Canada is like a crack habit, fine tuned for a few seconds and then drop another load o cash for another few seconds ad naseum ...oh well at least I'm not wacked on crack

I'll vote conservative if we we get airsoft guns at par $$

I remember people complaining that airsoft/TM front ends couldn't fit on WA rifle when they first came out.

now we have the opposite...

That's kinda what counts when it comes to GBBR's, no amount of rail kits is go na make ur gun shoot when it stops spitting white death ;)

lol of the 90 some pages I read on from arnie's on WA none have that complains, most are saying the WA doesnt have proper dimension of Delta Ring. And that was quickly addressed by G&P

I'll assume it's the JG copy, right?

From arnies; the kj m4 review thread:
[quote name='Raven1' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:17 AM' post='2180853']
My girl is Japanese, she just translated the page for me.

The Statement Reads,

Tanio Koba Factory will make the guns for sale in Japan and Taiwan Only.
This is due to the strict safety regulations / laws in Japan that must be adhered to regarding replica or in Japanese terms 'Hobby Gun.'

KJW will make the 'Export' guns for the rest of the world. The 'Export' guns will not be warrantied by Tanio Koba but ONLY by KJW.

The Tanio Koba Manufactured guns that will only be for sale in Japan & Taiwan will be warrantied by TK.

I agree that Quality Upgrade parts are being made by Japanese Manufacturers is a Great Thing!

LayLax is already on board and from what we saw on the TK website there are different stocks, grips, RAS / RIS Kits, 10.5" - 14.5" - 16" barrels, Tight Bore Inner Barrels to match are being made and will be available on the guns release in late October.

Japanese Brands like First Factory, LayLax, Prometheus, Nine Ball, Nitro V are affiliated with Tanio Koba 'Hobby Guns' and collectively make after market up grade parts such as seals, M4 front sets, TBBs for the VSR (Which the TK M4 uses) etc.

Great News Indeed!
[/quote]

my emphasis on the last part. hopefully in a few months time there will be upgraded internals for sale. i did hear that kj will sell spare parts through their website.

I have a feeling that the Koba rifle in japan will be plastic lower (if not all plastic) in following their laws, which is why kj started producing plastic lower recievers.

AWESOME!

Thanks to your girlfriend translating that. This is great news. Well I know what gun I'm buying next.

lol +1

Any word on mag compatibility yet?

That would be a pretty big deciding factor for me

don't mean to bring confusion, you should thank raven's girlfriend- the original post is from arnies

i tried to find the original japanese press release as proof, but no luck


i'm single if your offering though...

Theguy, how do you expect to get one of these, without age verification?

Stupid ASC won't let me use code tags to preserve formating? Gay as balls on your breakfast.

.... you arent too different

I am age verified.

twins... :)

I don't, however, i will be 18 in a little over a year.

Its TK/ KJW unique. Unless RA-Tech supports the TK I'm not gonna dip into it

Oh i see. Good luck :P For me, i'll stick to an AEG.

The gbbr market is still pretty new...not so long ago, WA released their gbbr system, but it had loots of problem and need at least 300-1k$ worth of internal upgrade to works flawlessly.
Then WE came out with their own system wich some call more reliable....( maybe?!) , but one problem still remain with those 2 platforms... The cooldown factor/effect, wich reduced fps and ROF (and may also be responsable for parts breaking....( metal doesnt like cold... ( at least the lower quality metal in chinese guns... :S).

And now KJW was able to limit the cooldown effect, with another system.... :)

Next VFC is supposed to release their own Gbbr line too! (SCAR, SPR, M4!)

So I would wait at least a year before buying a gbbr, now we have too many "beta" gbbr on the market, nothing 100% reliable yet.... So I would wait and watch them evolve!

+1

OK..... The quote tags didn't format properly. I thought you were quoting the translation not quoting another guy who did the translation.

I donno how much are you guys paying for this clear WE SCAR. But I saw the main distributor of WE in Hong Kong recently, they are selling the clear for around CAD$240(1550HKD) with one mag. I am trying the import one for myself, if Ican do it thenI will bring more in and make some more resonable profit instead of people charging close to 1K CAD>

The people charging close to 1k are charging for the full black/tan version that's why. I don't think there's any clear lowered ones here yet.

hmm well in Edmonton one of our retailers is having a IPSC event and will be showcasing this gun for us to try out on October 10. Hopefully i will be one of the ones who get to try it out. But yeah it sounds like its pretty much going to release at the beginning of the month everywhere in Canada. :D

found another review on redwolf:

http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?reviewID=240

I must say that this review is pretty positive. Their conclusion:

+1

I have been doing a lot of reading about the KJW M4 (or i have heard a lot of people call it a C8 due the the thermold mag, which we don't even use anymore >.> oh well)

It seems like almost everyone has nothing but good things to say. Some videos showing continuous fire shows an awesome amount of mags per gas fill, and the cooldown factor seems much less of an issue then with other designs.

Now... If only there was after-market support for it.

I somehow agree. Not totally. That is, because for external modifications, it's compatible with AEGs, and for internals, reviews all agree on the fact that it's well built and should last long enough.

Sure you can't get insane perfs, but seems pretty decent, no? Except maybe for the mags, but otherwise, looks good.

Just use duster on a similar weaker gas and it's gameable IMHO.

Right, sorry, should have specified more clearly.

The ability to use standard AEG front ends is awesome. And if i was to get one, I would only use it on duster anyways. Not too much more expensive then propane, plus it will put much lower stress on parts.

Hopefully they will release reasonably priced mags too

has anyone ever mixed gasses ? mixxing some propane into the duster would probly allow for a higher fps but still lower then 400 for use outdoors and for indoors you could use straight duster?

hey there, if you go through the arnies forum link I had posted earlier, I think they commented that runnung on duster that the gun suffered major cooldown effects compared to running green or propane. I'm a neophyte with gas guns so they might have said HFC (is that the same thing as duster?) but the guy also commented that he'd had some decent co-operation with KJW on orderin parts direct

What I don't get is how it will shoot 400 FPS out of the box with Propane when Japan severely restricts speeds (1 M/s IIRC which is ~320 FPS?).

Will there be a different version for Japan or is this one of those guns that they're just not going to bother marketing in Japan?

I'm not sure where they going to be produced but I was under the impression that there will be 2 versions. It's buried somewhere in the Arnies airsoft link (something about an export version and how TK in Japan won't be honoring the warranty of the KJW versions or something).

Either way its good news for us as after market part makers will be getting their hands on em! I

i believe that the gun was designed to work with both gasses so its durable for green gas but uses duster in japan

lol fyi propane gives 450fps using m733 inner barrel... your gonna have to run CQB to get it to 400. I agree its more efficicent, but Im not gonna switch over to KJW simply because:
I learn how to operate an Colt SMG at a range perfectly while never held anything resemble an AR-15. (The guy thought I was a weirdo the fact that I used the SPORT ways to clear a jam)
I can tell you right now I can pretty much build an AR-15 from ground up just due to the fact I build my new GBBR from scratch (Im not joking, it's all parts. None from WA, none are preinstalled. Had to assemble the trigger assemble, fire assembly, etc)

In short I want the replication to be exact, NOT close (KJW), NOT similiar (WE)

Kullwarrior personnally i think internally that similarities to the real steel shouldn't matter as much, performance should always come first .who cares if it doesn't look exactly the same on the indside as long as it performs well and doesn't break down

QUOTE]

I thought that meant the ones released in Japan were unique for its specific market, and the rest exported with the high fps.

then why don't you just take an AEG? since if performance is what you matter, AEG's performence is far better than GBBR. Besides, Magna system breaks, I look up onto build/repair AR-15, KJ breaks you ask someone on the forum hoping one of them is dumb enough to risk their GBBR and tries to solve it.

All I can say about the AR-15 type Clear GBBR, unless its made with Polycarbonate, and / or fibre reinforced polymer it will still break. Also its plastic makes it unrealistic, if it had been G36 series where the receiver is fibre reinforced polymer made by H&K it would've been easier. (Yes I know there were cases in the SL8-1 & 2 where the receiver crack, but since 5 years ago its fixed)

Hi All, I just received official pricing info for it.

KJ M4 GBB Rifle $ 495 + GST
Mag $ 75 + GST

Not bad for a GBB-R!

Ken
007Airsoft

i dont like M4's at all .... I would consider a GBBR when they get more models like ak or g36 ;)

you want a gbbr ak? buy a dboys from the classifieds and then import yourself a ra-tech kit, as for the g36 you'll be waiting a long time for that one, mp5 is more likely based on popularity.

I would say otherwise, MP5 mag is hardly enough space to store gas, sure maruzen did it, but thats with what kind of blowback? a lil less than marui's recoil engine?
G36 got the space, WE is actually considering (new news not the hoax)

That makes alot of sense, looking at it from a practical standpoint, the G36 is a better candidate, but the from a profit/popularity perspective, the mp5 is more popular and therefore will be a better seller, I don't like either so it really doesn't matter to me :)

$75 a mag? they are $38 everywhere else tell CAS to suck it ken

Aren't KJW mags proprietary?

yes they are and your point? they are still $38 everywhere else and are not import redistricted.