Situation regarding Thenooblord
 

Before I get this thread going I just want to make one thing perfectly clear:
THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR THE CIVIL AND MATURE WITH DIPLOMATIC DISCUSSIONS. IN MIND. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SAY NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE AND ONLY WANT TO TALK SHIT LIKE A 12 YEAR OLD HIT YOUR BACK BUTTON NOW.

I have been given the green light by several Staff here (namely Drake and ILLusion) to make this thread, so I just wanted to make that clear before people think Im just jumping the gun and creating this to be vindictive or attacking TNL.

As some people in the GTA know Thenooblord was given an "unofficial" ban on events hosted through ASC. This was as a result of actions committed by TNL at a game hosted at Defcon Paintball Outdoor Field. I was not there to witness the event in question, and have heard many stories about what he did. I personally cannot confirm these first-hand but they come from people who would not lie.

It is my understanding that TNL decided it would be a good idea to hop on his bike with a shemagh on his face and an AK in his hand, and went around the public parking lot/driving area of the property where Defcon is yelling "ALLAHU AKHBAR!" repeatedly, and there were also reports of him taking aim and shooting at vehicles near him. If any of this is untrue then I will correct my statement.

Nevertheless, the local airsoft contingents more respected and experienced individuals felt necessary actions be taken to discipline and reprimand him. This was spearheaded by a local AV'er (if he would like to be named I will do so only with his permission) who suggest he have his AV status revoked. It was discussed among Staff that real-world actions should not be policed here (which is in contravention to what Ive been told by other staff but this further leads me to believe that Staff in question was merely on a power trip). It was decided a 6 month ban from ASC Events be the appropriate measure to be taken. This was to last until this coming April.

Over the past couple months it has been obvious that TNL has chosen to disobey the ban and has been attending games. I have brought it up to one of the persons whos team hosted some of those games and his response was "Well he hasn't done anything at our games to turn him away, but hes starting to get on our nerves and close to banning him from our games." (again I will not name the individual quoted without his permission).

Recently there was a thread created in the Ontario Events section for a game to be organized at Solider Of Fortune field by the user WMK. TNL expressed interest in attending this event. A user decided to say "Isn't a certain someone supposed to be banned from games?" to which TNLs response was "That was by Brian M and the mindless drones of ASC who follow his word like a prophet. I have been attending games weekly."

I also chimed in and stated theres a reason people listen to what Brian M has to say and his refusing to honor his ban by attending games bragging that hes been going to games all winter is akin to minors bragging how they have full-black airsoft guns, smuggling etc... all of which is very much against what ASC stands for.

I decided to message Drake & ILLusion after being referred to them by TokyoSeven asking about making this thread because this is something that needs to be brought into the public light. Again this is merely a discussion about this situation, and if it turn into a shit-flinging fest a la National Geographic then the Admins will deal with them as harsh as need be.

I would like all parties involved to come here and state their case about this situation, since having/not having TNL attend our games concerns all of the GTA contingent, especially when he acts in ways that cross the lines of common sense, logic and even legal implications. All of which affects us all. I would like TNL to come here and state his case as to why he feels he should not honor the ban, the AV'er who instigated the ban as to why he felt that was necessary, and the game hosts who felt that he should be allowed to play despite a ban on him. Anyone else who has something CONSTRUCTIVE to add by all means please do so. Especially people from other communities who have had similar situations happen, how they were dealt with and what the outcome of it all was.

Im gonna say my bit as a member of the GTA player community. When I learned of his actions I felt right away that I do NOT want to be associated with someone who acts the way he does. Schwag had also made it known that the TWATs will honor this ban despite us being known as the blacksheep of ASC, because we still wanted to be a part of the ASC community and we respected the wishes and helped keep the ban active from our side. Personally I have had intentions on showing up to some games the last couple months but decided to pull out or just not attend on account of TNL being there. I decided to mention the reason why in a "tongue-in-cheek" fashion and not outright stating why, which I now regret.

I have since told many people that I refuse to be at any event TNL is at in person, but decided to leave my thoughts off the board as it only added to the drama but enough is enough. I personally feel that with the attitude displayed by TNL, be it online as well as in person, he is simply not mature or responsible enough to be trusted with airsoft guns (lets not forget he decided to take a 1911 GBB to a house party where one of his friends stole it) and should not be allowed to participate in ASC sanctioned events. My opinion is that his AV status should be revoked and that ALL hosts in the GTA should honor a ban on him attending any and all events associated with airsoft. I would even go as far as saying he should voluntarily sell off his airsoft guns before he becomes an even bigger detriment to us, our sport and even himself.

Now Im gonna open up the floor to others.

Okie dokei, guess I have to step in already
"It is my understanding that TNL decided it would be a good idea to hop on his bike with a shemagh on his face and an AK in his hand, and went around the public parking lot/driving area of the property where Defcon is yelling "ALLAHU AKHBAR!" repeatedly, and there were also reports of him taking aim and shooting at vehicles near him. If any of this is untrue then I will correct my statement."

I have heard alot of renditions of what happened, mostly grossly exaggerated, so let me lay it out.
Me and Kingsix were sitting at one of the benches, bored, everybody else, including staff were on field, and I grabbed his broken AK, jumped on his bike and said "ARGH! Rise of the bicycle infantry!" and Able1 called mags out to me from the field, I apologised, removed the mag, and that was it... doesn't really sound so heinous to me., STUPID? you bet, would I do it again? no, but a safety hazard? not at all. I truly believe the broken telephone here is breaking my ass, because each time somebody new tell this story, it gets more and more twisted and exaggerated, if you want to know, ask kingsix or somebody else who was ACTUALLY THERE.



The comment I made against Brian M, I'd take back if I could, but let me explain my rationale: going by the description of events you posted, many of the claims are indeed false, so by this, I say that heresay cannot be used as means to produce a decision, even coming form Brian M, because any details HE received were second or third hand, because he was not there.

the rest I cannot refute, because, I concede, I act like a dumbass on the forums, and I am quite irritating, and the 1911, at the party? no excuse, that was just pure stupid, he kept asking me to show him and I finally caved...

but you say that I am immature, I can be mature when I need to be, Immature when I want to be, but I would never do anything that would endanger other people. what i did was by technical standpoint, unsafe, but in practicality? no

You might want to address the fact that you brought airsoft replicas out into the public twice. That's the big sin on ASC, no airsoft in the public's eye.

public? when?

I dont really think a paintball field and a *former* friend's basement qualify as public

He never left the safe zone, he did however leave the safezone with the bike but that was to go to the washroom. The only thing Nooblord did wrong was to leave mag in which he was told by able1 to to take the mag out. I don't know know where the ideal of him riding around the parking lot with an ak came from. If Nooblord had an airsoft gun in public view in the safe zone and people are going on a witch hunt than everyone that has gone to defcon outdoor should receive a similar ban. I was there with him we where renting our aegs, gbb out.
Nooblord never left the safe zone with the AK I don't know how the rumor happened I am guessing it's like the broken telephone effect. He never shoot at any vehicles in the parking lot the AK in question had a dead battery I can call up kool-aid man who rented my AK that night to testify the AK had a dead battery and I had to give him my AKS-47

Also another tidbit... the guys from ECO were at the game, and I'm damn sure that If i was running around shooting cars when they were there... I would NOT have anybody that would let me be, but I am not so stupid as to do that, and it would be quite difficult to shoot cars with a nonfunctioning weapon

My main gripe with all this stories is the attitude of TNL. Discrediting the game organisers and ASC staff and ignoring Bans.

The whole thing of admitting to be immature and stupid does not help either. You are either mature or you are not, you can't choose whenever it suit your impulsions.

If a Ban from game was administered, it must be enforced and respected. If people don't have balls to enforce it at game, maybe they should leave the game organisation to more able people. I'm not passing judgment on current game organisers, I'm just ratling their bag a little.

If TNL has a problem with his Ban, he should apeal to the right people, not disrespect it and do has he please. He live in a society with rules. If he can't go by the rules, maybe he need some education.

I was there, on the field, taking a photo with all the other airsofters, while we were taking the photo, I noticed that TNL was riding around - in the safe area mind you - with a AK - mag in - on his bike, screaming something. Myself and one other Eco member promply told him to stop what he was doing, remove the mag, and put down the gun. He complied, and shortly after, he came on the field, while all of the airsofters were taking a photo (Eco, CORE, Pacific Recon, etc.) were taking a Photo with masks off, mags out, close to the entrance to the field. Note that there were more than 30 of us, when he came on the field with his mask on and started firing his gun near us. This happened within a timeframe of 2 minutes.

the ban is not imposed on ME, it is imposed on the the hosts not to allow me to play, I know I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but a host has been very accomodating and accepting, and seeing as he ATTENDED THE EVENT WHERE THIS HAPPENED and still saw it fit to let me play a few games, I suggest that some of the people that are making decisions off of second hand information should review

The question is do staff have the right to ban him from games? I don't think so. We as a community should communicate with each other about problems, but should it not be up to individual host to decide who to allow at their games? ASC has no right to decide who to allow to play at games across the country. Now they do have the right to pull AV if they do not want someone to have access to certain sections on the site.

funny, I missed that part I guess, since I didnt have a gun, I had rented it out to somebody.... odd, especially since I am in the picture, and that was on a different day...
somebody PLEASE explain to me how this all gets so convoluded?

Just to clarify that right now: this has nothing to do with ASC or its staff.

What's being discussed is a ban imposed by the Ontario Game Organizers.

well, I don't really have anything else to say, but I'll poke back in here to make sure there aren't any more "embellished" stories about my actions and the events on the night.

It's not about ASC staff, it's about the comunity concensus to Ban TNL.

The comunity is comprised of everyone playing airsoft in Canada. The one that enforce it are the game hosts and organisers. ASC Staff are just facilitators.
That's how I see it and I assume most people see it this way.

If TNL is a dangerous, anoying missfit, and people are not confortable playing with him around, then that's enough for a Ban IMO.

now, PROVE that I am a danger, that is what this thread is for.
not with "he said you did this" I want somebody who was actually there to show me that something I did was a hazard to everybody around me

I'm not here to prove anything. I'll leave it to the local people that know you.

But the way you post here reflect a lot about you. That's all I can say.

This is the part I was refering to with my comments. But again, does it not rest in the hands of hosts? But I agree with the idea of avoiding games being attended by persons you believe to be a safety hazard to yourself. Lets be honest here if a host finds out that 5 or 6 of his buddies won't attend a game because they are concerned about the actions of another player, that host will quickly remidy the situation.

sorry, I wasn't pointing my finger at you, that was just a general query to anybody that was at the game, I just used your quote

Was my post not clear? I gave an official clarification on where ASC stands on the issue, regardless of what anyone else posts.

I was at the few TTAC3 games you attended before your ban, and I will happily state that you were a danger to yourself and those around you with an Airsoft gun. You had accidental discharge after accidental discharge and completely unsafe eye protection*.

Personal likes and dislikes aside, in the few games I attended with you** (backed with the constant bitching about you from other members on the board) I do not feel you have learned anything about gun safety, or caution for other's safety while handling airsoft guns.

*(Paintball goggles with 5mm holes drilled in them... Brian even tested a BB up against the holes with his hand to see if it would squeeze through, and it was -close-. The end verdict was it was his eyes, his responsibility.)

**(The "games" you attended at TTAC3 are always training nights, and Brian M actively gave you suggestions to become safe and how to do it, along with how to better your game. None of which was used, or improved upon.)

My comment was directed to Rock 'N' Roll. But thank you for posting ASC's position on this matter.

If my post comes off as laying the responsibility on ASC Staff, then I apologize for the confusion and Drakes response is 100% correct and the intended message to be transmitted via my post.

those were a long time ago, I had 2 ADs, one of which was finger in the trigger guard, yes my fault, cant remember the other one, but I know there was one more, and I have to say, that I did learn, maybe I did not apply it as fast as you would have liked, but in my games since then, like how long? 9 months? I have not had a single AD...that was when I was first getting into airsoft, some of my first ever games, and I did not take much of what people told me seriously, but I did eventually implement it, too late it would seem, but I would like to hear Brian M's opinion on this matter, and personally i would like to know what the information HE was given is, if it was actually what happened, slightly distorted, or one of the strange and wonderous stories that was fabricated like the one R&R posted, not saying that was R&R's story, he may have heard that from somebody else too

people bitching about somebody being annoying is no basis for a ban, I can be irritating, deal with it

Somebody being annoying is perfect grounds for a ban. If someone at a game is irritating other players, it's easier to deal with the source rather than telling all the players to "deal with it"

Well if I may make a suggestion then. Discuss this with a large number of players and hosts in the GTA.

A few things that maybe should be kept in mind in the interest of fairness.

- Saftey (is TNL a danger to himself or other while playing)
- Has he shown improvment in regards to safe play and handleing practices
- Has he been given constructive critsism and not just being bitched at because of some peoples dislike for him
-

there will always be somebody that gets on other people's nerves, some people find me annoying, more than a few, but there are some people who *gasp* like me, talk to me regularly, even come and hang out with me! annoying is a perspective, like, I don't know you, I've probably seen you at a game, but never talked, but you annoy the hell out of me, your posts directed at me really get under my skin, especially when you poke your nose into what is not your business, but would I ban you if I were to ever host a game for a selfish reason like that?
/end rant

So what are we waiting for??? your accidental discharged turn a hospital trip for someone ?? You still have no clue why you were ban do you?? Normally i would just laugh off these kinda of thread but this is no longer a laughing matter, I've invested way too much time, money and effort in my part to watch a sport that started with just a few dozen of us to become what it is now to be ruined, your attitude of "I don't give a shit" does not cut it and you Nooblord are lucky that your fate in this board does not rest in my hands or the hands of my teammates you would have been permanently banned. This sport does not need a loose cannon cowboy like you, your action and attitude in the past has put you in your present situation and yet you have not learned from your mistake and to make matter worse, you still flaunting your ability to attend games because one of the host choose not to follow the rest of the Ontario Hosts...........calling the rest of the hosts as Brian M evil minions that blindly foloow him, Hmmmm really mature there.

like I said, I havent had an AD since then, and I hope I never will, and i am not "flaunting" anything, I'm just stating the fact that I have gone to games and not been a hazard to anybody at any of them, at any time

and I never said I dont give a shit, I care, I care ALOT,

and not so much evil minions, antagonistic to my interests, but i was more going after the fact that the defcon incident was judged by people who werent there, based on heresay from other players, if what I did at defcon was so heinously evil, why did somebody not come up to me and tell me to go home? if that were the case, it would have gotten the message aross alot better than mean spirited PMs from people who werent there

I would like to think that I have BECOME a safe player, and I know that when I was playing at TAC, I WAS unsafe, and I didnt know/learn fast enough

I propose this then, After the ban period is finished, I attend a probationary game somewhere, and you can scrutinize everything I do, i can't fake knowlege I dont have, so if I were to do something wrong, you would know its because i didnt know it was unsafe, that I am still a hazard, then I would gladly back out of the spotlight

I was not going to post in here because it didn't concern me, then I read this and Ronan came to mind. Lol

There is no Accidental Discharge. Only Negligent Discharge.

If you are repetedly negligent with other people safety and your own, you have, IMO, no buisness on an airsoft field.

At least Ronan is "smart" enough not to come to games anymore. (o:

When called on for being under an unofficial ban your response was "Ive been going to weekly games all winter." Thats bragging no matter how you might want to back peddle. You may not have said the words "I dont give a shit" word for word but your actions and attitude show nothing but an "I dont give a shit" attitude. By playing during an unofficial ban, and trying to convince WMK to play at his game, as an example.

I was not convincing WMK, he had said earlier that he didnt care about the GTA drama, but I respect his decision now that the toronto players had been reading his threads, it would have hurt his reputation

i will reiterate, that it has been said it is not up to me to ban myself, I can go to whatever games that will take me, that will not be held against me, that may sound like "i don't give a shit" to you, but to me it's common sense, If I'm allowed to play somewhere, I play, I try to be my safest,

I would like to discuss this personally with Brian M

Firstly, this was not "Brian's idea"...nor was it tabled/approached lightly.

Ultimately, the decision on who plays at their games and who doesn't rests with each host.

One can only hope that all hosts are working towards a safe and fun game (shoot'em up or milsim or somewhere inbetween regardless). Not necessarily fun and safe for you...but in someways more importantly fun and safe for all those around you. In addition to those objectives, one hopes that all hosts work towards representing airsoft in a positive light to the field owners and the public.

Most guys would jump down a persons throat if they acted like an asshat in their backyard...yet acting like an asshat at a game gets at pass too often at some venues.

Nobody has to prove a thing. Being an asshat and potential problem to the operation and enjoyment of a game/event is enough for me to blacklist someone. My time and the time/money of everyone else who signs up is too important to tolerate that kind of behaviour or shitheaded-ness.

It's up to the host. Some will let you play (I've spoken to some of them...they're watching closely and hoping to "reform by example"...get kicked out of those and you're done permanently), others will uphold a temporary ban, others will/have banned you permanently already.

Nobody came gunning for you because you're goofy and annoying....there's tons of guys more annoying than you. It was a tolerance thing...you exceeded the tolerance of enough people re. safety and basically public asshat-ness, they then decided to ban you from the games/events that they run. A permanent ban was deferred in lieu of a temporary ban.

Pretty straightforward.

I will agree then, that I would not go to another game during the remainder of the unnoficial ban, if there will be a field that will accept me afterwards on the conditions I stated before, on a probation, to show that I HAVE learned and become a safer player

Not too long time ago a certain member of this board was shunned and temporary banned for a short time for being an asshat and posting his Gangsta pictures with airsoft guns

*Edit* this was way before your time, the point is there are plenty of former ASC members who are asshats that are no longer with us because they can't find a place that welcome them as a player, get my point??

kinda a thread derailment, but was that the dude who was asking about painting his walmart clearsofts and stuff? I forgot his name

I could be wrong, but if a person starts firing his gun on a field with 30+ people with no masks on, I'm fairly sure that the person has no regards for the safety of others

since I stated that that didnt happen, since that picture was taken on a different day, and i didnt HAVE a gun on the night of defcon.... i dont see where this is going

and even if i am wrong and it WAS that day, i did NOT have a gun, or bring a mask, because I went there to rent a gun, not to play, I had rented it to koolaidman ,and I did NOT use it

I think that summarizes the ideas/reasoning around your temporary exclusion.

Take some time to fully realize the behavioural expectations that most hosts have. Try again later.

I don't think there is a "probation" period per se. IIRC, the second chance is the last chance. There's only temporary exclusion or premanent exclusion.

more that, after my Ass hattery AFTER the ban was imposed, I would not be surprised if Brian at TAC and the other GTA hosts will geve me a firm "fuck you" even after the ban, so I wanted to make a chance to clear things up, also I wanted to talk to Brian M in person, not so much about this ban, but other matters as well

Ok let me give you something to Ponder about Nooblord. This community that we are involved in is pretty tight, we are not just like paintball where 100's show up randomly, and play with whoever shows up on that day.. We are organized on a public forum, we know who is attending a game based on sign up. Therefore, someone such as myself who has never met you, all that I know about the type of person you are is how you act on these forums and what I hear from other people that I know very well and trust their words. Based on these, I would not even consider allowing you to play at a game I am hosting nor would I be very inclined to attend one you were at. You are immature, deny it? Well 80% of your posts on here confirms it. You are unsafe with airsoft guns, deny that? Well actions again speak louder than words.. You are disrespectfull, deny that please because you know I have a ton of examples, and the first one just pisses me off... Brian acted as an offical rep of the game hosts who agree we should stick together and help keep things more organized and safe for all those participating, we ALL agreed you were a hazard at this time, therefore agreed on a temporary ban. This you were informed of, and you basically pissed on it and us by going to games anyways. Dont worry I am not just pissed off at you for this, the host(s) that allowed you are also on my shitlist, but the point still stands, you have showed direct disrespect to me, brian and all others who support it.

So you can say you want to discuss this directly with Brian, but I am informing you Brian is not acting alone in this matter, I am here as well, as is Tyson, RnR, Wildcard, ect ect.

We just may.. you are not approaching this very well at all, why would I want to host or play at an event that I have to keep one eye on you at all times because of what you might do?

Oh man, no time toread everything it's "valentines weekend" apparently and I have to perform lol

quickly...

Alex, when the whole thing happened and you were facing the ban, you should have said all of this before the ban took effect, not let the decision be made and then go against it because you felt you were undeserving of it.

Game hosts that have let TNL play,

by allowing him to play you may be using the logic of, "he's been safe around me so what's the big deal?"

while that may be correct to a certain extent, the fact remains that we are trying to provide some kind of structure and accountability with the games hosted by ASC members, just to keep everyone safe. If you don't care, that is fine and realistically no one can make you.

Remember that your integrity and reputation is something that takes a while to build and that you willbe judged by your decisions and by the games you host

SR

when this whole thing started, I didnt know that such false information was being passed around

Nooblord I hope you understand what this hobby meant for some of us old farts here.

Airsoft is not a right, It's a privilege and as such we are very protective on what little freedom and tolerance we have from the government. douchebags and asshats never last long in this hobby, it brings a lot of unwanted attention to us. We have no problem with noobs, we often encourage new MATURE players to join, players that understand what is the concequences of an improper behaviour in our hobby can bring, players that will take criticsm and instructions with a gratefull attitude instead of one that simply disregard it as the same ol song.
However WE DO have problems with noobs players that completely disregard the safety rules that was set, we have a problem with noob players that completely disregard the safety of others on and off the field and we obviously have a problem with noob players that flatly refused to listen when good advice is given. If you think that this statement don't apply to you and you thinking that all the senior player here hates your guts because of your goofyness then may i suggest you stick to a safer game like video game or nerf gun battle because it's obvious you still don't get it, every game/hobby have rules they are there for the safety and enjoyment of their own participant, when one individual refused to adhere to the rules that individual are usually shunned upon and eventually leave. I really hope that you get the message of what we are trying to say to you because anyone that knows me, know that i'm not usually this nice and tolerant dealing with matters like this.

There is probably nothing I can SAY that could come close to rectifying this whole thing, and I have come to realise 100% what has been going on, as people have been putting the pressure on me, I have been looking deeper into my behaviour and I have tried my best, but I can't make the things that I have done wrong dissapear,

this is why I asked for unbiased judgement on my behavior at a game AFTER the ban has been lifted, so I can be deemed truly unsafe, or allowed to try again.

Actions is always better than promises...............

You should have clarified and defended yourself more then, can't go back in time tho

about being evaluated after the ban is lifted, the ban never really took effect so it's kinda pointless now, unless you wanted to volunteer to extend your ban to make up for the timethat you have been playing for, but that too is kinda pointless

I am open to suggestion, CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion, not "dont play airsoft ever again"

-Wait out the rest of the ban
-apologize to the parties involved
-attend "few" games to regain some trust and to show your new attitude towards and in the sport
-wait

thats all I can suggest.

I have followed this thread from the first post and this is my input on the matter

main reason I wanted to talk to Brian, I know he was doing what's right, and I was wrong, but I still pissed all over everything he was doing trying to help the community, and I was just being an idiot

before you post

- Stop, think about what you are going to say, Delete button is your friend
- take the ban like a man
- have a chitchat with Brian M and the rest of the host, an apology to those you insulted would be a start
- attend a game (after your ban) and unlearn all that shit that you have in your head and learn the proper way, when in doubt ASK
- stupid You tube antics on airsoft gun is exactly that STUPID so don't try to imitate
- Before you act STOP and THINK, will this bring a shitstorm after

hope that helps

Well your appologies and moment of clarity now is seemingly makes very little impact on the situation as a whole. Instead of comming out like this when we called attenion to what kind of player you have proven to be at more than one event, you decided to be a prick and lash out on the forums when we call you out on it, and attend games with the attitude that "this host will let me play, so haha fuck you guys I win"

Reputation is everything, actions speak louder than words, especially words on the internet, the fact that you have shown over this winter that you dont give a fuck then, what makes us beleive that you give it now? None, my stand is simple, do not attempt to sign up or attend any of my hosted games. You may not give a shit about this, I dont care if you do or not.

That is my stand as a HOST on you as a PLAYER. That is as far as I plan to go with this, dont wear your keyboard out unless you plan to talk in a mature respected manner.

The fact that theres three pages or argueing here tells me something.

wether these accounts are fabricated or exaggurated, fact of the matter is, TNL you are a shit disturber. I mean just look. had you had respect among your peers and they had trust in you this wouldn't have been brought up because the issue wouldn't exsist.

out on EAR we just banned someone for an issue, not very similer to this but the user's attitude and their actions negatively effected the community. the issue when brought up didn't even make it past page 1 before he was banned. his actions weren't on the forums but he was still banned from them, why? because he negatively effected the local airsoft community and they cut him off completely with both a field-wide ban and an online one so his idiocracy wouldn't further poision our sport.

you have been given a ban, the fact that you are still allowed on these forums (yes' your actions do effect the entire airsoft community, everyone's does) to explain your self is an extremely mercyful act by the staff IMO. time to start counting your blessings man, from my perspective all your doing here is digging yourself a deeper grave

If that is your decision, I will, of course respect it, I have no right to say who you can or cannot let play hosting your games, and the hosts are in the right here, so If they feel that I should not play at their venues, It's not all that unreasonable

I have considered that, and though I know I AM probably burying myself deeper, I still have to get this crap out of my head, or it will fester like some sort of parasite or 4chan thread till i go nuts

Anyone find it a bit ironic that his screen handle suits him?

Just so that this post isn't completely useless. Please keep in mind that the ASC Community and it's players have a long memory and we do not forget easily (unless you're an old timer..kidding kidding :D), let alone forgive.

Edit: Read my signature as well.

I think that if TNL refs Airsoft games for a designated period of time, enforces safety rules at a game, he'll learn himself how to conduct himself at Airsoft games, as well as what kind of impact his behaviour has on others.

So you feel the someone that has shown themselves to be unsafe to ref a game? Maybe shadowing an experience ref/host for a period of time, seeing the expected code of conduct from ALL players, being able to enforce rules under the direction of others with more experience, then maybe. But have him be the main enforcement power I feel is a very unwise decision.

I don't think ANYBODY thinks its a good Idea for me to ref....

*edit* just saw R&R's post
yea

agreed
though this should be at the discretion of the host of the game and owner of the field. as well as only to happen after his ban.

gonna have to disagree with the hosts discretion bit...one thing to host an absolutely private game where no one else on the open boards knows you're letting a questionable player participate but it's another thing all together to post openly within an open forum where the game hosts (at least those recognized by each other) have some agreement to try to police good conduct so we all have less headaches.

if you're hosting a game openly in this venue than please follow the lead of those respected hosts that are communicating with each other. comms arent great so the fact that they've agreed to something is rather impressive. take it seriously....or at least be plainly clear about your disinvolvement with the rest of the hosts....a simple "i dont give a shit what you guys think i'm letting ANYONE play!!!"...would be nice to save on drama like this. though i suspect you folks wont be getting the creme de la creme of players out to your games.

I don't know the guy personally, but I think this is a good way to think outside the box.

A ref don't really have powers. It's just a neutral pair of eyes on the field. When in doupts, he cut the deal.

TNB being a ref would put him in a situation to observe and think while still keeping him in the game. He would learn a lot from it IMO.

That's what I call a win-win situation. Unless he screw this up too.

what, I fall over on somebody and make their gun shoot? lol

Unless you act like a tool and people kick you out because you suck at being a ref. Kinda hard to do if you keep quiet and only get involved when there is an issue you witnessed.

I still think thats a very bad idea. Thats akin to having someone who has a track record of getting into car accidents, disobeying the laws of the road, and doing all sorts of stupid shit with cars be a driving instructor. Leave that to the people who have good reputations as players be hosts/refs.

that would be akin to a host, as ref wouldnt I just be solving disputes like hit/not hit and stuff?

Or just one set of eyes, able to call admin on channel 1. It's up to the host.

Either way, I'm willing to go towards any solution that is not perma ban, because obviously, I Want to continue to play airsoft, or I wouldn't be here trying to defend myself

My suggestion is that you start another game ban. I'd suggest a 1 year ban since you already disobeyed the original 6 month ban. If people feel thats overzealous then another 6 month ban. Once that ban is lifted you would be allowed to attend games (barring of course the hosts discretion if they should choose to allow you or not) and if there is even a single report of unsafe activity/general jackassery then a permaban should be imposed along with making it WELL known to all hosts, along with his AV status being revoked. This could also be implemented during his ban period as well, but I'll leave that up to the discretion of the Admins.

Anyone have input on this?

thats a lot of chairsofting...

I believe a full year is a bit severe, another 6-7 month ban from attending games I think should be enough thats already most of the season gone. afterwards I think a sort of "probationary period" for a month should be good for where he must shadow the refs and such in order to gain a deeper sense as to the rules and what implications certain actions have. after which he will be allowed to play at the hosts discretion.

That would be your problem to bear. Like the old saying "dont do the crime if you cant do the time".

no, dont do the crime if you cant cover up your tracks and frame somebody else for it and get away with it and escape to mexico... or something...

sorry, I'm too tired to talk seriously now

Then stop typing.

I say this as a favor.

You may be tired and not taking things seriously, but many of us are taking it very seriously, and will hold you to what you say.

What happened to being mature when the need arises? This just makes you look even worse after saying you can be mature when you need to, which you can't even hold to. What should make anyone believe that once/if your allowed back to our community that you have changed?

You might say that you said that as a joke, but just how you did the whole bike thing as a joke, or taking the gun to your friends house?

I'm going to bed before i dig myself a deeper grave, I'll be back tomorrow

Try and make sure to leave the shovel behind then, if you truly want to be a part of this community again it would be in your best interest to stop and think about what you say, be it online or in person.

Otherwise you better just cut your losses short and find a new hobby.

You once ask for constructive suggestion here it is just in case it escape your mind

before you post (Please note the bold and coloured letters)

- Stop, think about what you are going to say, Delete button is your friend
- take the ban like a man
- have a chitchat with Brian M and the rest of the host, an apology to those you insulted would be a start
- attend a game (after your ban) and unlearn all that shit that you have in your head and learn the proper way, when in doubt ASK
- stupid You tube antics on airsoft gun is exactly that STUPID so don't try to imitate
- Before you act STOP and THINK, will this bring a shitstorm after

hope that helps
__________________

Alex...IMO, you should just stop now. Someone posted, you made your point, you clarified your point, you've received just about the best advice that you'll get.

Wait...think...try again where people will let you.

Whether or not you chit chat with one person or another to set expectations or whatever...doesn't matter much at this point.

I strongly suspect that you'll eventually get a second chance with some people, and never get one with others. That's just the way it goes.

What you MUST realize is this: Hosts/owners/organizers don't need YOU *figurative individual*. There's plenty of other players who will sign up and "play by the book". Their lives and days are much easier without anyone who poses the least bit of risk to their events/games. If someone is going to cause them grief then the host's life is much easier by simply not having that person there in the first place.

Goes the other way too. If the host has a shitty/half-assed approach and wild/dangerous/embarassing event...then solid players won't attend. There was a game this summer that was promoted as a "Vets & Experienced Players Only" game. Quite a few "senior"/seasoned guys signed up and showed up. What it turned out to be was a 100'x200' patch of woods off a country road out in farmland. Full view of moms&pops driving down the road on the way to church. More than a few "backyard warriors" showed up, clearsoft and highcaps in tow. Shooting without goggles, shooting each other in the safezone without goggles, tracking public persons with thier rifles, that kind of shit. The "vets" left...I can 100% guarantee that none will ever return to any event hosted by this guy any time in the foreseeable future.

And that...is the reason why your ban wasn't taken lightly, nor was it made permanent right off the bat. Collectively the hosts realized that people need a second chance...that sometimes a person needs a cold bucket of water to realize that what's happening isn't to be taken lightly...that it does no good to push players or hosts to take their games "off board" and have more bush games like the one I described above.

So got back and reread some of the posts by RITZ, Wildcard (unusally restrained), Renegade, RnR, Ducky, etc... Ignore the posts about easing into things by reffing...I can't see that happening.

Reread them....think it through...wait.

PS. Myself, and I'll go out on a limb and say most hosts, could care less if you apologize or want to talk things over. Like I said above...the hosts don't need you to put a great game together...not having you there is frankly easier. But, they're reasonable guys and are good to their word. If they say that you've got another chance...then you've got one.

Alex, I once knew someone a LOT like you ;) a guy who did goofy, stupid, and irresponsible stuff without thinking of the possible ramifications and consequences of his actions- it was all just to get a laugh or make a joke.

But 10 years of marriage and 4 kids have taught that clown a bit about responsibility and maturity. And how you can still have a good sense of humor and make people laugh without doing stupid stuff.

Like some have said on this thread, if I may reiterate also: It appears that you are attempting to make amends, so I will give some advice from someone who has had to do a lot of apologizing in his lifetime:

1. Be humble. NOBODY likes a bad attitude. I think you're trying to get started here.

2. Be serious about it. Regardless of how you may feel about it, others WERE offended is some way, shape, or form. DO NOT JOKE about it or any surrounding issues. Taking responsibility for your actions and being sincere shows that you want to make it right.

3. Be a man- take the bans/restrictions that the game hosts/ teams put on you. Don't fuss or complain, just continue to profusely apologize. (Don't be too self-deprecating, and DON"T JOKE)

4. Commit yourself to restoring the trust of others. However long it takes. A reputation takes years to build, and seconds to destroy. Change your attitude at games AND on the forums. It will take a few years, but if you do have a GENUINE change of attitude, then over time people will forgive you and and begin to respect you.

5. Help others. When your ban is lifted and you go to a game, by all means, have fun. But don't just go for yourself- try to help other players with advice and tactics, or just to compliment them on their kit. It's amazing how great you feel when you try to make someone else feel good. Plus others won't look at you as a self-centred immature goof, but instead see you as a friend.

6. Don't repeat it. It will take exponentially longer for people to trust you again if you burn them more than once. It shows that you really don't give a shit.

RANT TIME

This kind of situation is exactly the reason why so many vets have hung up the gear and guns altogether, or sworn off public games.

TNL, if any of the allegations are correct, and I have little reason to doubt them, then you're exactly the kind of player that should get a hefty boot in the ass out the front door of the sport. That being said, everyone deserves a chance to change, so you should have that chance.

Many, MANY years ago, we had an actual community of players, instead of a bunch of whining self-important twits with a gen-y sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility. Before the fucking Internet came along and introduced rediculous amounts of asshattery, games were organized over the phone. If you didn't get a call, you didn't go. If you didn't know anyone, someone had to bring you in, and you better fucking believe you were held accountable for your actions.

You would not believe the lengths we went to to acquire the guns in the first place, and the further lengths we went to to play games. It was NORMAL to drive 5 hours to play with 20 people because you had to drive that far to find 20 people to play with.

Where do you think all the vets have gone? We're still playing, but not anywhere you've heard about. Because we can't trust HALF the fucking fucks on here, so we go to private games at private fields, where we know people aren't going to be stupid and those that are get fucked in the face with a combat boot.

Now, any idiot can buy a gun. Any idiot can come on here and learn where the games are, then show up, be a nobody, a face in the crowd, with no accountability for their actions, fuck shit up for everyone, then dissapear.

Its pretty sad that so many skilled, trustworthy and valued players don't play at the public games anymore.

Back on page 4 I actually PHONED Wildcard in Vancouver because instead of him taking a strip out of you he actually gave you advice on how to fix the problem you created.

This is the point where you would shut up and take the advice given, finish the term of the ban that the hosts gave you (without complaint or excuse) and come back after the ban and earn our trust again.

I am sure that many hosts will be watching what your next step is.

Other facesless noobs should take note, the hosts are fed up with you all. I would give up 20 noob players for one player like Morb to show up at a game I am hosting.

That is my two cents.

I think anonymity is sorta hurting the sport, how about starting a roll call before the game starts, hosts bring a copy of the signup list and check them off before they start.

What you guys think?

Also good for people to get to know each other, not everyone has nametapes :)

Are you trying to loose that "Dumb Ass" title?!! :) I like the idea. May I use it? :)

Quick Intro to Why I am Writing
I am one of the people who has played and hosted a game with Nooblord at my games so I am speaking from my personal experiences.

My Advice to Nooblord
Nooblord, I've given him advice and suggestions before he got his ridiculous tag and before he got his ban. I always said the same words "Keep a low profile"

And right now you really need to take that advice, try not to respond in this thread anymore as you might write something you regret once more. Just simply take this at face value and let the fire burn away and learn from this.

Nooblord's Fix

1. Contentiously writing underhanded comments and saying sorry afterward expecting all will be forgotten.

I still did not like how I was called a "Brian M's Mindless Drones" that was very underhanded of you. As one of the host part of the Ontario Game Host and Owners first off Brian M's is not the overlord mastermind. The group was created through a collective of people working towards one of our common goals: "Bringing back the quality players to a game and weeding out the bad"

I understand you apologize afterwards yet you seem to write again as if the first apology was meant for nothing. Also if you ask for proof of this some of those comments were deleted so I cannot find them.

Solution: Use the delete button
Always remember to read over your writing before posting

2. Talking out of turn at game briefings

This has happened at least once every time I hosted a game when you had come before your ban. Always at ONE POINT when I am explaining the rules you would interrupt me.

"Thats Gay", "Ew no full auto, that sucks", "Mercy is for pussies"

That not only disrupts my train of thought but also annoys me a lot when I am trying to explain the rules to my fellow mates listening intently you interject with a useless comment.

Solution: Talk to me personally when the game briefing is over, I don't mind people telling me their opinions but interrupting me during a game briefing does not help anyone

3. Other players complain about your conduct

I know some players have talked to me about your conduct and I have observed it myself. But telling people to "deal with it" for your annoyances is not going to make you more friends.

I SPECIFICALLY left goddamn paintball to get away from such annoyances so I don't have "deal with it" anymore.

Solution: You have a calm side to you, please let that side of you grow.

4. Blaming problems on mental illness

This is a touchy subject. If you have a problem with what I have written please PM me.

Telling people you have a mental illness is the right thing to do, it helps people understand where you are coming from.

Continuously causing problems and blaming all of them on your mental illness is not nice, it makes it appear that you are trying to use that as a scapegoat.

I have worked with kids with disabilities as a day camp counselor at Camp Chimo and I have helped raise money for Reach for the Rainbow charity fund and I have helped my friend as a volunteer for teaching kids with disabilities to play tennis at Armadale Community Centre.

Never EVER, have I heard any of them ever use their condition as a scapegoat to make others look away when they did something bad. They are great kids always willing to live their life to the fullest and try their best to be happy. And they try their best to correct their mistakes, they may lash out from time to time, but they are kids and it takes time to grow.

Solution:
You are not one of those kids anymore, you've grown up and from what I see you are trying to make a conscious effort to fix your mistakes but now the best thing to do is keep a low profile and think things through.

LOL go right ahead man, and no I'll still be my usual self so I think I still deserve my title that I worked so hard for ;)

Man that was a lot of reading, lol.

I think that a one year ban is too harsh, even with all his jackassery. However, starting a new 6 month ban would be the appropriate step to take. Hopefully this time will allow him to reflect on why this had been imposed, as well as, time to mature. After the ban, I propose that he attend some sort of training and safety session on how to appropriately handle firearms to avoid any further accidental discharges that could potentially harm others. I know that TNL said that he hasn't had an accidental discharge since the first two, this will further help prevent any other problems.

-------

I have been playing this sport since I was 16, and no, not with other stupid 16 year olds in a backyard. Do you know why I was allowed to play? It was because I was very mature for my age and I had the utmost respect for everyone that I met. I never spoke out of turn and I took every piece of advice to heart. Even to this day, I have yet to have a single accidental discharge of any weapon on the field. The trick is not to have your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to shoot someone. You have to learn to respect the gear and equipment that you have.

I've played with TNL before and he's not such a bad guy.
Here are some suggestions I have
1) Learn to shut your mouth once in a while especially when someone is trying to brief the group of the scenario. If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything. Also
2) Respect everyone on the forum, especially the more experienced players.
3) Learn to take some criticism and not reply with some snarky remark.

I would hate it if further restrictions are placed on this sport or even banned because of immature behaviour. It only takes one person to ruin it for the rest of us.

Before people get angry, no i never met TNL and nope, i never played with him... But about 2 months ago, some kid showed up here, on asc.. Wanting to incorporate rubber knives into the game (yeah, we all remember eh??)... Well anyways, he was given a chance to play, was even not bad actually.... But then, went home and continued insisting on his physical milsim... We tried to tell him it was not a good idea, at first nicely... he basically told us to fuck off.... Then , we kinda got irritated... He was banned for a day here... Came back, worse than ever.... I even received a threat pm from him... Wich, in no way, i was the meanest... But yet, some hosts still wanted to give him a chance... But he kept going, and well, long story short, he is banned now.... i am a very nice person, but i had personnally requested to one host, that if he is accepted, i will not present myself to that game... I did not feel safe being around that dude, with an aeg... especially with the way he was talking, i litterally feared for my safety. The host prefered having a fair player, than someone who is disliked by everyone....
Now i am telling you all of this, to simply say, keep a low profile... our brains are made to remember mostly the good memories, not the bad ones... So, by keeping it low, people will forget, might even go, huh? who is this nooblord?? And those that wont, will see that, yes, you made stupid mistake... Yes, you are still young, and we always think we know everything, and yes, you have learned to keep quiet, and changed your ways... And that's not something to be ignored... Cause from what i read, you are very close to go play with that kid, with rubber knives in a public park!!!
remember: Out of sight, out of mind!!! ;)

This is something I was debating bringing to anyones attention. Since cbcsteve has done so I might as well ad my bit. Im not going to disclose any personal information that hasn't already been said, I'll leave that to TNL. It has come to a few peoples attention (me being one of them) that TNL has a medical condition. One that I feel any and everyone playing alongside TNL should be aware of as it affects everyone around him. This is even more of a sensitive issue given the nature of our sport (shooting projectiles at each other that can potentially be fatal/permanently life altering) and because of his condition which affects his judgement making capabilities it should be apparent to everyone, and everyone should have a say in whether they feel they are comfortable playing alongside someone with such a condition. Then it will be left in the hands of the host to decide if TNL should be permitted to play barring the consensus of those already playing or wanting to play.

This should not be seen as an attack on someone because of a medical condition but like I have explained the nature of this sport, such information should not be kept in the dark. It should never be used as an excuse for ones actions, because if a condition is the root of the problem then its time for TNL to seriously consider if this sport truly is for him. Not just for his safety but for everyones.

I will leave this subject alone now, as I feel I have said enough and will allow TNL to fill in the blanks and address this issue with full and honest disclosure.

If there's a "mental illness" which makes someone exercise extrememly poor judgement, and display general arrogance about the poor judgement, anyone with such a condition shouldn't be playing this game.

If anyone wants to use a physical or mental condition as an excuse, then they better be prepared for the impact.

I have worked in Mental Health, and have a vast amount of experience with young persons that have various forms of serious personal issues in conjunction with Mental Health Disorders. In my experience a person that is blaming their personal behaviour/conduct on their illness is:

1) Too immature and unable to take any actions that require a sense of accounting for their actions. They are using the fact of an official label of the disorder/disease simply as a scapegoat. They constantly get themselves into a difficult situation, simply to say - Its not my fault, I have a mental illness (insert DSM reference here).

OR

2) They are unable to determine or display any understanding of the nature and quality of their actions as they are under the influence of their mental health issues. Their disease/disorder has so taken control of their lives, thinking, behaviour of this individual, that they need to be in care, or at least under Clinical Supervision. If this is the case it would probably be best if you or any player would take a voluntary time out from the game.

So which is it, either you choose to be a Numpty, or you need to take a time out to have you personal situation dealt with by mental health professionals.

I have no personal issue that you or any other player may have to deal with the evils of a mental health issue. I have seen how it can so negatively impact someone's life. I know some that have a mental health history are unwilling to disclose it, as they do not want to be labelled. But consider at least one in fifteen Canadians have been impacted by having some mental health issues and one in six know someone who have a serisous mental health issue. So mental health concerns are far more common that most people believe or understand.

If you are practising Normal Safe and Responsible Handling at all times. As well as not negatively impacting the Sport that we all love. I would have no issue taking the field with any player, regardless of their mental health status.

This is quickly turning into something other than constructive. Personal issues should be dealt with personally, not on a public forum. Behaviour at a game or event is one thing, things like this need to be asked of the accused before being disclosed publicly.

You guys mention not wanting to label anyone, well congrats cause you just did.

Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with my personal opinion on the matter. I've never gamed with the guy but I have hung out with him shooting airguns/airsoft before and had zero qualms about safety. That being said, unless I missed it and he stated he didn't mind info like that being disclosed, I think this has gone a little off topic and a little too far.

I have no objections labelling anyone. If the guy's a menace, he's a menace and I don't want him anywhere near me.

I don't give a shit who's feelings are hurt. I'm not part of the "not my fault" generation, and excuse me if I'm prone to point fingers at people behaving poorly. If i make a mistake, I take accountability for it and I have ZERO patience for anyone who doesn't do the same.

We've been doing this for years @ the LZ in Ottawa - you're telling me this isn't standard practice? We have players check in, pay and chrony before games.

Players who are fucktards get spoken to, then the boot if they carry on being a problem. Now with a united group of field hosts in Ottawa this year, player bans would be enforced across the region.

not all host follow this practice, the only one i know of that still does it now it's either Brian M or Ponch when he host

Any group of people I've done "team building" with got in a circle and said their name and something about themselves right off the bat...gay? yes.
But it got you to know each other fast. I think I'll push Zeon to do this at games because whenever a problem comes up I don't know who the person is.

Nooblord being that it's 5:30 in the morning here in B.C I'm being nice. There are a lot of senior player here including myself who has show a great deal of patient dealing with you, we have given you enough advice for you to be able to dig yourself out of your mess, whether you chosse to accept it it's up to you but be forwarned that if you manage to screw this up you will end up being a chairsofter for a very long time.

Granted. But this isn't a witch hunt, it's supposed to be constructive. Many positive things have been suggested, and TNL hasn't had a chance to fully respond yet. I understand some of the feelings in the community but that doesn't mean personal info etc. needs to be divulged. Especially if he hasn't given permission.

I believe this discussion has run its course, I've gotten any advice that I could have, so I'd like to close this before it starts getting off topic again. thanks for the constructive advice, and I HOPE I get a chance to play with you again down the road.

TNL, before you sign off, you should probably address MadMorbius and Mr Shiney's points regarding a) metnal illness and its place in airsoft b) scapegoating it