Building my own m4
 

I am completely new to airsoft gun but I do not wish to spend money on those cookie cutter m4. I want to build my very own *unique* m4!

Is it feasible for me to build my very own m4 with nothing but custom parts? What's the difficulty? What do I need to know in order to build my very own *unique* m4?


Thanks.

Custom parts are a lot more expensive than original parts. Why don't you just buy something else than an M4 if you want originality?

Try buying all parts from the same brand. It will saves you a lot of fitting issue.

I am open to any suggestions.

What's the difficulty? Any info?

What Mist3r.B means is that if you mix different brands of gears, piston, etc... inside your gearbox, they might not fit. The tolerance in the machining process is not exactly the same from brand to brand so they might not be an exact fit. To minimize those chance of problems, you should stick to the same brand for all your gearbox parts.

If a gun is the same brand as the gun, it is pretty much guaranteed to fit, since it is the same brand made for the guns. However, different brands might make their pieces a bit bigger or smaller, which in some cases require some modification.

Also, if you're looking for some cheap-ish parts, international dealers are sometimes cheaper. However, they come at a cost (no pun intended) because of shipping rates, times and customs.

Thanks. I am going to stick to the same brand for all internal mechanical components. But I would really want to mix and matched brands for all my ideals external components.

What type of parts did you have in mind? Rail systems? Stocks? Everything?

I guess I would like the following info:

1. Airsoft rifle internal working 101
2. How to build a rirle from scratch.

Any links?

Mechbox.com is awesome few videos on there and youtube to be honest
as for the externals take a look through "doctors corner" on this website along with "parts and accessories" discussion boards those would be good places to start.


on a side note. how old are you?

Take a look at mechbox.com, they have some really nice videos on how to disassemble, reassemble and maintain a mechbox (the internal parts). IIRC, they also explain how the mechbox works in the videos when they disassemble it. Good starting point.

These are what I have found so far. I really have no idea how difficult to put the following components together. I am pretty sure I am missing many internal vital components. Please let me know as well.

Scope + Laser Beam
--------------------
A.C.M. 3-9x32 Blue Rangefinder Rifle Scope With Red Dot Laser

Silencer
--------
DBOYS M4 Ported QD Silencer

Stock
------
J.G. M4 6 Position Retractable Stock /w Buffer Tube

Rail System
-----------
J.G. M4 Floating RIS Rail System

Grip
----
Element G27 Ergonomic grip - BLACK

Front Iron Sight
----------------
Element Vltor Replica Flip Up Front Sight

Front Folding Grip
------------------
A.C.M. "Ice Pick" style Folding Vertical Grip

Motor
------
J.G. High Power Motor

I am over 30+ years of age.

I actually thought about this and I did get about 15% of the way figuring out which parts and what I needed. Scrapped the project before buying anything but I can give you a hand with the parts that I selected.

Basically it would have cost me about $1000 to build. If you have that kind of money to throw around then great but as it stands if you want high quality custom/aftermarket parts then it's going to be a lot.

Also keep note that you should stick to one or two aftermarket brands, don't mix and match, each aftermarket company will have different tolerances for one another and although will all work with TM guns (the "standard" they are usually based on) other companies may not play well with each other.

As well if you're not in Engineering or something related you're probably going to have a really hard time. It's easy to follow instructions but there's also a thought process that needs to go in as well if SHTF and you need to come up with your own solution to a problem (and believe me in every project there are problems).

Also get AV'ed that's pretty much the only way you're going to find a high quality metal body. I haven't seen any for sale not in the classifieds and it WILL likely get seized if you try to import one yourself.

EDIT: Crap can't find the file I'll keep searching but basically what the parts list boiled down to was a G&P Metal Body along with a Modify FTK (I think the S110+ spring for 400 FPS) and the parts that it was missing and a gearbox shell (I think it was either HurricanE, Modify, or G&P). The Hop up unit and rubber I was going to use were Prometheus Neo Strike Chamber Hopup and Prometheus soft.

The OTHER thing I was looking at was a G&P body, SystemA REVOLUTION Mechbox or SystemA Complete Mechbox and various high quality externals.

EDIT2: Does anyone else hate Redwolfs new layout? It kind of hurts my eyes but I guess it's just because I'm not used to it ehobby has a white background as well but it doesn't bother me for some reason.

OP: There's also the SystemA ENERGY Mechboxes as well. It's the newest bleeding edge technology and although I don't know if it's that much of an improvement (over the REVOLUTION or Complete Mechbox) if you have the money to drop and like being bleeding edge you'll be one of the first people rocking the SystemA ENERGY stuff.

Don't but element or JG it's all pot metal, if your building a custom M4 you might as well do it right and go with G&P, Hurricane and CA among others.

those are only external upgrades..... so basically, you'll need a good starter gun first (for the internal components) , and then buy those acessories to customize the look of your rifle....

BTW: forget the JG motor.... :P you can get a better brand.... (systema? )

I built my M4 and it came to about the $1000 mark before batteries and mags, the most exspensive part being the Systema M120 mechbox and Systema magnum motor, that alone was almost $400 after exchange/shipping/customes ect.

I'm sorry but that's like saying "I want to build a car from scratch, and these are the parts I have: one door, some windows, an exhaust pipe, some gas, a radio, some pedals, and a hood."

You need to do a little more research on what you need for a complete gun.

get av'd and buy a starter gun in the classifieds, then decide what you want out of it, and then start buying, once you have the gun you can take a look at it inside and outside

agreed i mean mine started as this
http://www.canadianairgunsupply.com/..._gg_45_1_1.jpg

and is now this
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7431669_n.jpg

buy a gun then slowly modify it building a gun from scratch is costly, as it stands i've spent over 900$ on mine and its not even scratch built

This is so true I just finished scratch building a King Arms Vltor M4. All in it cost just over $1300 for all the parts I wanted. I could have bought the same gun for $7-800.

Exactly, for exemple a G&G V2 gearbox will not fit properly in a G&P m4 body . It also apply on external parts. Those cost a lot and can be hard to adjust when their a fittement issue. I know pleople who spent 5h making a KA RIS fit a G&P receiver.

Thanks for the suggestion guys. How much did you paid for your m4 and what brand is that?

I really want to remove the front long gun barrel and flashhider, then replace it with a silencer like the following.

http://bt.warrior-online.com/th/air/m4_silencer.jpg

what do you mean by the front long gun barrel?

Basically, if you buy that cansoft G&G m4, you'll only need to change the front sight/gas block, rear sight, add a vert grip, a silencer, and a PEQ... :P

its a G&G CQBR the prices vary on the retailer selling them
i've seen them sit at 400$ + your best bet though and probably cheapest is to meet up with an Age verifier and purchase a gun from the classifieds.
how to get verified

I just built one it's in my sig.... PIMP.. lol

I've built a couple of AEGs so far...a couple from scratch and simply modding exisiting ones.

If it's your first AEG....buy something solid and go from there. You might not end up with much of anything from what you started with....but you'll have a higher chance of success along the way. You'll likely end up with 90% of the parts that you need to build a second M4 (or rebuild the original one depending on how you look at it).

If you're familiar with AEG parts, manufacturers and options...then scratch build if that'll get you what you want.

You will get a nicer build doing it from scratch if you buy good parts.

Do not scratch build with clone parts...stick to G&P/KA. If you picked all G&P parts they'd likely go together like butter and look sweet. If you picked a bunch of clone parts from different makes you might very well end up with a crooked stick with 8 shades of black (I kid you not...this is entirely possible).

I just built 2 gas rifles this weekend. Actually better to say that I rebuilt them. One was working...ok/so-so...the other wasn't assembled. I worked back and forth between the parts and figuring it out as I went (they were my very first attempts at building up magna system rifles). Even after building/rebuilding/repairing several AEGs, I'm glad for these gas rifles I bought something that was sort or pre-built already to get a running start at it. I've received literally baggies of parts before and been asked to assemble a rifle out of it...it's not hard, but it's not the nicer way to go.

** if none of the above made any sense to you....don't scratch build...buy an AEG and mod it piece by piece **

Tys

1. Are there any Canada online retails selling G&P, Hurricane, King Arms or CA m4 and m4 parts?

2. Is C&G a quality brand?

3. Would anyone recommend a good Rail system (RAS)? Does different length of RAS has different effects? I am thinking of 10" Free Floating Forearm Rail System w/ M4 Outer Barrel, and then attach with a silencer. Would that be too long for a gun barrel?

If your looking for a high end base M4, check out the Vega Force M4s at Mach one.

Vega Force is really high end stuff. Very well made.

1) Not really. There are a few companies that have VFC (a high quality brand might I add, they make great SCAR's from what I hear), ICS (I Chih Shivan), RS (Real Sword) and such. I think CA might be on the list of things coming soon.

2) Not really. I would rather go with TM(Tokyo Marui), G&P, VFC (Vega Force Company), CA (Classic Army) and brands like that

3) I don't know. No it just gives you varying amounts of "real estate" to put accessories on (ie. PEQ box, Flashlights, Optics, etc.), that being said there are a few things to consider including "barrel wobble" and having a 1 piece outer and a free float system to take off weight from the barrel.

Any trusted Canadian online retails selling TM, G&P, VFC and CA?

Mach1 has VFC and there bringing in CA soon.

What are the best assault rifles (except m4) for mod/upgrade?

Thanks for all your advices. I have updated my wish list accordingly.

VFC SOPMOD M4

A.C.M. 3-9x32 Blue Rangefinder Rifle Scope With Red Dot Laser

A.C.M. Offset 30mm Aimpoint Quick Detach Mount

A.C.M. Electro Red 4 Recticle Reflex Sight Scope (BLACK)

DBOYS M4 Ported QD Silencer

Element Vltor Replica Flip Up Front Sight

Compact Fore Grip

Looking for a better silencer. Any idea?

well G36 is some what easy to mod

MP5 is a V2 gearbox (shares the same gearbox as the M4/16) as well so that's an option for internals. External wise not too many things are made that I've seen just a basic rail system and your standard attachments including rail covers, flashlights and PEQ boxes.

AK is good as well, it's a V3 mechbox and pretty common as well so internal upgrades are easy to come by. BUT A lot of people who try the "tacticool" AK look make it look bad IMO. I've seen a few "tacticool" AK's that I like but a lot of ones that I've seen I think are ugly as hell.

Also note silencers don't actually work at all. They're mostly just for show and to hide extra long inner barrels. They do suppress some sound but most of the noise is coming from the gearbox/motor area.

Read the FAQ's and you'll see a list of items that aren't prohibited from import, basically a lot of the items you want can be imported (guns and metal bodies are a definite no no but most accessories are fine, as well silencers are a grey area and although shouldn't be seized sometimes do).

I definitely stick with Canadian retails.

1) Does anyone know if Mach1 is just a distributor and deals with the public through their online site, or do they have a store front with a display of their products?

I ask because they say they're located in Toronto, but every time I call the provided number, no one picks up.


2) Who, in Toronto is available to AV. Because I've gone to the AV section of this site and have PM'd a handfull of guys on here and did not get a reply back. I'm located at Leslie & Finch, but I can pretty much meet up anywhere in the GTA as I have a car.

1. They do sell direct as well as distribute. PM/email is best. No store front...yet.

2. Go to TTAC3 and see Brian. PM to see when he'll be there, or check out the games section, he runs stuff pretty much every Friday night.

To the original question re. scratch building....
I've built a couple of rifles from scratch, simply modded existing ones and fixed up a few. This is just my own opinion for a guy just starting out.
- if this is your first AEG and you don't know pretty much anything about them...don't scratch build. Buy a working one and mod it. You're likely to run into fewer headaches this way.
- if you decide to mod something...try to get a base that's as close to what you want
- if you are going to scratch build it, stick to the same manufacturer for pretty much all parts, it'll minimize the fitting/tolerance headaches...G&P is probably going to offer the largest/widest variety of options
- I would highly stress to you NOT to choose a clone as a base or pick/choose a bunch of clone parts....you may very well end up with a crooked stick and 8 shades of black.

When you're putting together a rifle you are essentially looking to build a shell (exterior) and stuff a bunch of geared/spring/piston/stuff inside it. Concentrate on the shell first...the internals can follow and are easily/plentiful to get. If you're buying used to get a base for the build...buy the best "shell" that you can.

I've worked on literally hundreds of mechboxes...
- if I needed one for my own rifle now...I'd buy a complete one (probably a G&P although I'd consider a complete Modify one since I haven't tried those yet) and just retweak/check it over. I would not bother piecing a mechbox together one part at a time.

Best of luck,

Tys

I like the following holographic sight

E0 Tech 553 Replica
http://www.007airsoft.com/products/p...ages/50026.jpg

1. Which holographic sight is better 551 or 553?
2. Why would someone put both holographic sight and scope together?
3. If yes, is it feasible to mount both 553 and Rangefinder rifle scope together?
4. Should I place the holographic sight in front of or behind the scope?

If you're budget conscious a Huang replica 551/552/553 might be a better idea.

He's located at Oriental Centre in Toronto from what I know under "Huangs Outdoors Shop".

The main difference between the different series are the batteries they use, and their target sight thinger.... (I got the 552 because it uses AAs)

From what I've seen, holograhic sight goes IN FRONT of the scope....
Holographic sight is usually 1x magnification... So if you want to be more accurate at long range, you get a 2x, 3x, or 4x magnifier...

Dunno about the scope you're looking at, the magnifiers for aimpoint and eotechs don't have any target sights when you look through *i think*...


If you want to save money, there is the 552 from dealextreme, I find it to my liking at least... and it's not even 40 bucks

Do you mean the following:

My Eyes -> Holographic sight -> Scope -> Target

What's the difference between Reflex sights and holographic sights?

From what I understand from my high school physics course (didn't learn this specifically but I'm applying the knowledge I have to the current situation) basically with a reflex/red dot sight your aim is "true" no matter which direction you're looking at the dot through (ie. you're looking through the sight at a weird angle the red dot will still be on the target that you're aiming at) where and what you're pointing at is where you're going to hit/shoot at. Whereas if you don't line up your iron sights properly it may shoot in the wrong place. I actually don't know if it does or not but that's the advantage that I know should theoretically come from a red dot or holo sight.

The holo sight I don't know I think that it's just a holographic projection of the reticule onto the glass (however with the red dot sights this is the same thing that's happening as well).

I would like to instantly transform my weapon platform from long range to short range or short range to long range with a flip of a switch. Here is the idea..

My eyes -> Reflex Sight -> 7x scope -> Target

The above example is a long range weapon configuration when both reflex sight and scope are perfectly aligned. I am looking for a tiltable scope mount, so when I want to instantly transform my m4 into a short range weapon, I could easily "tilt" the 7x scope 45 degree to the side of the rile, so my reflex sight has an unobstructed view to the target as follow:

My eyes -> Reflex sight --------------> Target


Have any of you seen any tiltable scope mount?

You mean a flip to the side magnifier? They're so common it's not funny.

Would you be able to show me some samples in any online retails? I could not found it. All of the scope mounts are fixed (untiltable).

Just look here. You can get them for both Aimpoint style red dots and EOTech style Holo-sights.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=81623

Thanks. I have two questions


1. Is the tiltable part belongs to the scope or the scope mount?
2. Which configuration is correct?

My eyes -> Reflex sight -> scope -> target
*or*
My eyes -> scope -> Reflex sight -> target

I would imagine the movable part would have some kind of lock to lock the position in place for preventing any wobbling.

My eyes -> Magnifier -> Reflex sight -> target (this one is correct)

PS: If you look carefully on lots of forum, you could find a Hurricane Eotech for about 100$ shipped..... (Hurricane Eotechs are the best... ;))
(got mine from AirsoftPacific, BNIB...100$ shipped to Canada :) )

Would you explain why Magnifier go before the reflex sight? The purpose of reflex allow user to aim at a different angle. It would make more sense as follow:

My eyes -(aiming at different angle) -> Reflex sight -> scope - (magnify) -> Target

Because of the Eye Relief, of the magnifier, with is usually around 1.5" to 3" if you're eye is too far from the optimal eye relief distance, you wont see anything....

Actually real EOtechs are the best, don't get confused ;)

The magnifier goes in between your eyes and the sight as it magnifies the field of view that the sight covers. If you put the magnifier after then the reticle will not appear to lie on your target as intended by the holographic technology but rather lies on your magnifier. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

Also you don't need a 7x scope. That would be WAAAAY too much for airsoft. I have a 3-9X50 scope I use with my M14, but its mostly for appearance as I never take it off the lowest setting. I think Amos uses a 1.5X setting for his VSR10 bolt action.

When you mean magnifier, you actually meant rifle scope, not red dot scope. Rifle scope without reticule or dot. Am I correct?

See the pics posted earlier with an Eotech? The L shaped part is the holographic sight which is closer to the muzzle. The checkered tube shaped part with a flip to side mount is the Eotech magnifier. Don't confuse them with telescopic sights.

No, the magnifier is like a monocular. It goes between either the red dot or the holosight. It just magnifies.

It's a dedicated small optic, not at all like a rifle scope or red dot that had the reticle omitted.

I was talking about replica Eotechs..... Off course nothing beat the real deal..... I had t chance to try a RS one at a Basspro in Orlando, FL.....:)

Which sight is better?

Airsoft Surgeon Reflex Red Dot Sight

Hurricane 556 Replica Sight

Completely different options. The first is mini RDS and the second is a regular full size RDS.

Do you mean the mini RDS is for pistol or small firearm only. The full size RDS is for rifles?

I've seen folks use a mini RDS on a carbine or SMG before in lieu of a front sight even. Not common but possible.

Would it required a special mount for a mini RDS on a rifle?

Just like all your other questions the answer is Yes/No/Maybe/It Depends.

Most rifles are covered in rails these days, and most red dots and holosights mount direct to a rail, just like the one linked to does.

Without you with your piece in hand though it's a guessing game.

With the low, low profile RIS mount that it comes with you can use it...but it's low.

There are riser mounts for it...similar to the riser for the Micro T1

Take a peek at military morons...I think the guy there had several Docter sight setups on a couple of rifles.

Too small for me...the Micro T1 is about as compact as I'd go.

Here...http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.optics.html Right click on the link and select Open With...then select Spoon

There are even some more red dot and magnifier shots on there for you.

Would anyone explain the differences between holographic sights and reflex sights? Which is better?

You don't like to search do you? The search bar is at the top of the page and is there just waiting for you to use it. Don't want to hurt its feelings do you?

Holographic sights project a holographic reticle that seems to lie on your target. Reflex sights are somewhat similar but their technology is MUCH more simple, thus lower price tag. They reflect an LED (usually) onto a glass that allowed you to see the dot placed on the POA/POI (point of aim/point of impact) to a degree, no matter what angle you look at it.

Are G&G, AEG and KWA good quality brands?

AEG isn't a manufacturer it's a type of airsoft gun, as for whether G&G and KWA are good brands is a matter of opinion, personally i'd take a G&G over a KWA but i would take brands like CA or G&P over both.

I would like to pick one of the two. Which one is better?

SRC M4 SD (Gen 3)

OR

KWA M4 S-System

SRC isn't TM compatible (just the externals) so for what you want the M4 for it would be pointless, i think you should just stick with a G&G M4 variant because they are cheaper then either choices and you shouldn't have a problem for upgrades because they are 100% TM compatible to my knowledge although they seem to like parts made by CA the best. I've seen some nice gun's built of cansoft G&G (RITZ).

EDIT: KWA would be a good pick as well but i'm not sure it's TM compatible.

May I ask why TM compatible is important? Do you mean the possibility of upgrading G&G m4 with TM gearbox?

TM is like the Grandfather of AEG's and most people copy or create their designs using the same system of pins screws etc, since most company's are cross compatible with TM after market companies cater to them meaning an abundance of parts for TM compatible guns especially for M4's.

If your new to airsoft, dont bother trying to build a gun from scratch :P buy one thats stock, then put all your internal and external upgrades into it as you go. That way you wont waste money on useless crap, you can figure out what you need and what will fit your playstyle as you game the gun. I know this has probably been said like a dozen times already lol

Couldnt have been said any better.

If its your first gun just get something that works and is in the style you want. Nothing too extravagant yet unless you have money stacked 10 feet high in a 500 square foot room. Take it slow, set a budget, and look at all your options. Make sure parts are readily available if anything breaks in your gun, and further more make sure your gun is worth the money your going to pay. And in all honesty stay away from Cansoft (G&G, SRC, KJW) there is a lot better stuff coming real soon given you have the right means of aquiring it. And in all honesty man if your not 18 yet, just wait. Im in the same boat as you right now if you are under 18. Try buying a car before you buy any airsoft, cause then when you start playing you have your own ride and you have an all round purpose item now, you can go wherever whenever. Welcome to ASC too by the way :)

I completely agree. If this is your first AEG, dont scratch build it. You will run into alot of problems that will make you bang your head. Buy an entire AEG first, and gradually change the externals to your liking. I just finished reading this entire thread, and to be honest, i would never go with ACM, Dboys or Elements or JG. Once you see the quality of G&P, VFC and king arms, you will end up selling those pot metal brands. Based on my experience with external accessories, here is my order of preference. G&P > VFC > King Arms > Classic Army. Actually, G&P and VFC or a tie for me. I used to own a classic army M4 but I end up selling most of the externals because they weren't good enough for me. I ended up buying a G&P body, with G&P and VFC accessories.

Here is how it looked before:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Sniper30-1.jpg

And you can also see in the picture that I have a flip to side mount for my 3X magnifier. I can switch out the aimpoint and put a holo sight instead if I wanted to. The magnifer is only used to MAGNIFY your field of view of your RDS. Think of it like a magnifying glass.

Here is how a G&P metal body looks like:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...t/IMG_3154.jpg
You can see the quality difference in the engravings and texture of this G&P body when compared to CA


For your rails, it best to go with G&P, VFC or madbull, those are the best ones I have seen so far. If you really want quality parts, why not just order them from overseas? Shipping is around $20 for a big package, and around $10 for a small package. Im sure you can get element, ACM, or JG from velocity arms, but i rather dish out the extra cash and buy quality parts overseas.

Thanks for all your advices. I have updated my shopping list again.

KWA M4 S-System

Hurricane 556 Replica Sight

Compact Fore Grip

Magpul CTR Stock - Black

Looking for a decent 3x magnifier. Any idea?

Looking for a good solid slip-to-side magnifier mount. Any idea? (I like yours, turok_t)

Looking for a smart charger for 11.1v mini-LiPo battery. Those that can auto stop charging when full. Any idea?

For the charger, get an IMAX B6. You can find them as low as 35$ at RC retailers like hobbyking. It will charge virtually anything.

All clones are the same for the 3x magnifier.. u can try with Huang
My Flip to side mount is made by Bomber, it has a nice CNC smooth finish.
http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/goods.php?id=5233