Scenario medic idea

[tac57]

ADVANCED MILSIM/SCENARIO MEDIC CONCEPT/PROTOCOLS

- System based off “injury cards”, whereby a medic arriving to downed player (or the player depending on what will work) will randomly draw one of several small cards from a pack (pack has about 4-6 cards for simplicity).
- Each card will dictate the injury type, severity and required treatments.
- Severity is minor, urgent or critical.
- Each severity dictates the amount (roughly) of time the medic must spend with the player/patient before they are declared “healed”.
- Times are: Minor: 30 seconds, Urgent: 60 seconds, Critical: 2-3 min.
- 2 lethal injuries are present in the cards to simulate lethal trauma.
- This severity system forces the medic to clear the area and use assistance to secure the area before treating the patient.
- Treatments may include:
o Bandages, which are either normal band-aids (simple and cheap), or kling wrap or triangular bandages, anything will really work). Each medic has a finite number of bandages (say 4-8) and once they use them up, they are either out or must resupply, depending on game).
o Simulated epinephrine syringe (no needle, just a plain syringe labeled E, epi or anything similar)
o Simulated morphine (just a plain syringe labeled M, morphine, or something similar).
o NOTE: ALL MEDS ARE SIMULATED, AND JUST CONSIST OF AN EMPTY SYRINGE W/ NO NEEDLE.
o Meds are also limited, to say 4-5 syringes each, after they are used; the medic either is out or must resupply depending on the game.
- Treatment card will dictate the injury type and area, severity (how long the medic must stay with the patient/player), and the required treatment.
- Equipment carried in “medic bag” or similar pouch.
- This system would be used for milsim/scenario games.

[JonsM4]

I'm here to play mil-sim, not medical sim. No offense.

[R1ghty]

Originally Posted by JonsM4

I'm here to play mil-sim, not medical sim. No offense.

Because throwing a red hankie in the air totally simulates an injured person in a military conflict.

While it would add confusion, it would also add to the simulation.

Have everyone remain where they are when hit. They may only move if a medic grants them mobility.
Medics carry the cards and distribute bandages as necessary.

Medics would be held to a higher morale standard, and would benefit from having a secondary role in a milsim.

More idears:
Having a random number generator would be nice. a blizzard authenticator would work.
Ask the injured person first or last and have a printed table which shows the time needed to heal.

Medic: *arrives, pushes button. Code is 57863*
Medic: "First or last"
Wounded:"First"
Medic: "5-3"
Medic: *Checks chart* 5-3=45seconds 3-5=3minutes
'Medic: 45 seconds, I'm healing you"

[PARKINGLOT]

That's an interesting idea.....I don't know if it would work very well with a regular skirmish though.....

[m102404]

If the players are in the right mindset...medics in-play add a great dynamic to the game.

Mil-sim...doesn't having someone wounded (vs. dead outright and then they magically disappear and reappear), needing care/security, tying up resources/time/etc...better simulate what might happen in battle?

Some medic variations that have worked quite well...(some of these are different rules mashed together)
1. Wounded player must drop (safely) where they are...call out for help regularly
2. Wounded player can only be moved when in contact with 1 (up the number to 2 to tie up more resources) healthy player. Healthy player must "drop" wounded player to engage enemy
3. Wounded player must be moved a min of 50yrds directly away from the firefight to be treated. If encircled...no treatment is possible. If left in place for more than 5min...they "bleed out" and die.
4. To heal someone...the medic must have both hands on the wounded player for 60sec without pause...and then tie a "bandage" in a visible position to one of the wounded player's arms/legs. Cheap rolls of gauze are easy/handy/cheap to distribute.
5. When you're out of bandages...your wounded bleed out and die in 5min. Teammates can pass bandage supplies around...or not if you want to make things a bit more complicated. Or a wounded can only be healed with their own banadages...but in practice it's easier since the medic knows where their stuff is already and can have it in hand.

Issues that come up...
- 60 sec counts can be done "too fast"....up the time then to 2 min to heal someone
- can stall game where there isn't enough attrition....once guys get it figured out, sometimes there's not enough lull/lag to get guys back in the fight, and so the opposition can't fully exploit the reduced forces
- everyone needs to be clear...it's quite possible for misunderstandings to happen when someone shoots someone "dead", but then ~5min later the guy is back in the action. Seems like cheating if everyone isn't on the same page and doesn't have their brain switched on.

Huge, huge pro to using medics...is the challenge of managing resources and NOT having guys head back to some far off respawn point, never to be seen again. Keeps the game flow going...and sharp game hosts/control can alter things in play to avoid hangups.

For a shoot'em up skirmish...I wouldn't bother.

[Zeonprime]

I remember trying a similar system back in oh...2004? worked ok just need the right sim and player set though.

[hollywood...]

I like the idea

[tac57]

Thanks for the feedback. I like your idea of increasing the times for some f the injuries to avoid "fix and go" types of things. Another interesting idea would to have each player carry a set of cards and some bandages (NOT the epi or morphine) in a vest pouch, simulating an IFAK. When they go down, they would pull out the set of cards and (this would have to be tested out) either draw a card themselves and call a medic, or wait for a medic to arrive. What this would enable one to do is "buddy aid" for the minor injuries that do not require sim medications. In essence, another player would provide "first aid" for the minor injuries, but a medic is required for urgent or critical ones.

[TheHappy1]

Someone organized a game with a system similar to this one last summer in Quebec. I'm trying to find the guy so he can join the discussion.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Medic rules..

I've used many variations.. and as with all things regarding games..

the success is dependent on the player base.

Some players won't bother adhering to such rules.. and will just go respawn.

Many never bother to even read the rules.

Personally I kinda like medic rules that require people to deal with casualties.

but most players don't really like medic rules.

For most players .. the simple , call hit walk to spawn and get back in the game is the preferred method.

[Gish]

This style system is great for full blown milsims thats for sure. We have developed a similar system here locally involving the medics carrying around medic bags containing:
Tape, simulated IV system, casualty cards, ear plugs, simulated bandages.

The card system works good in that random draw = wound. It's a mix of more involved ones such as "Chest wound, apply IV for 5 minutes" or a simple "Shrapnel to right leg, bandage up"
That said though you need to make sure that the system is used in the right context. We avoid advanced medic rules for simple skirmish days but milsims it's required kit.

[tac57]

"involving the medics carrying around medic bags containing:
Tape, simulated IV system, casualty cards, ear plugs, simulated bandages."

What do u use to sim an IV? real bags and set w/o a needle? If your wondering, go to a local pharmacy or Shoppers home health care, you can buy almost anything there, although you will have to ask for the stuff.]

I have a live/"reel steel" (or should I say real nylon/condura ) trauma bag that I use when I go out to camp, contains many med supplies. Stuff is really easy to get (legally) by looking for medical suppliers.

PLEASE NOTE: JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN BUY IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN ACTUALLY USE IT IN REAL LIFE MEDICAL CARE. I have IV gear, but would never use it IRL since it is outside my scope of practice (I am an AMFR). Now if you are somewhere and a physician explicitly gives you the OK, than that's different.

MILSIM IS OK, since it is not real life (i.e. you aren't actually sticking them with an IV cath).

Canada is great for medical supplies, you can buy almost anything (except meds, for very good reasons). Canada's airsoft import laws may be brutal, but at least we can get sterile water without a Rx. In the US sterile wound wash water is a perscription item that required a Dr's Rx. Go figure.

[Zeonprime]

Originally Posted by tac57

...What do u use to sim an IV? real bags and set w/o a needle? If your wondering, go to a local pharmacy or Shoppers home health care, you can buy almost anything there, although you will have to ask for the stuff....

colostomy bag and wait til after you have faux taped it to their arm before you tell them

I remember Shrike playing a medic at one of the Border Wars games, belly crawling to someone screaming for a medic in the middle of a firefight. was pretty great to lay down covering fire for him.

I wonder if Trifecta will have medic rules?

[kalnaren]

I like the idea of medic rules.. I've been to games that have used different variations.

The problem with them is that the more complex they are, the more likely players will completely ignore or abuse them. Brian pretty much has it right from what I've seen.

I think the best variation I played with was a disengagement rule. When you're hit, a "medic" has to tend to you (usually a simple tag). You then go to the closest of several marked "forward spawn" places where you went to respawn after the first hit (put a red sash around your arm after this hit). If your hit again and wearing a red sash, you have to go all the way back to the main spawn.

It was simple enough to follow and provided the best balance of having medics vs. getting players back into the action.

If you wanted to force players to make better use of medics, you need a real, quantifiable team penalty for respawning instead of using a medic. But then comes the aforementioned problems of complicated rules, players ignoring them, etc. etc.

[Dirtbag]

Actually we penalize by making the re-spawn time significant, 20 minutes after you hit the "Dead Zone".

Our medic carries a bag with bandages, and simply needs to reach the player before bleed out and attach the bandage. The bandages are white with a hollow red cross and velcro attachments. We specify the arm the bandage must go on for the injured player to be back in game.

The medic wears a white armband with solid read cross and can not heal himself. His is worn on the opposite arm for clarity. Makes for a great sniper target .