Bell GBB's (specifically the Glock 17)

[Activist]

Hi, I'd like to start off by saying that I have done my research (of what's available) including this ASC thread (titled) BELL GBB Pistols? and based on this post I decided to make an order for the Glock 17 (gen 3) made by Bell.

Now I've heard some mixed stories saying it's a TM clone (because of the magazine) and other's saying it's a WE clone and compatible with WE parts.

If anyone out there has the Bell G17 I'm curious what kind of after-market parts will be compatible with the Bell model; for instance - the slide. I would like to upgrade the slide to one with an extractor as a separate piece (like the Stark Arms/VFC or TM models). I'd also like to upgrade the magazine valve's and hammer + hammer spring. I'd also like to upgrade to night sights.

Another question I have is regarding the quality of the polymer frame and how (bad or good) the mold lines are. If they're poor I'd probably upgrade to a Guarder frame assuming it is compatible.

If any of this seems unnecessary and you're thinking to yourself "it would have been smarter to just buy the TM model or at least the WE", then I would agree with you - except I purposely went with Bell because it's much cheaper and I want it to be my first project gun so I can get familiar with performing upgrades and modifications myself without worrying about screwing up and leaving me with a much more expensive paper weight for a gun.

If anyone with the Bell Glock 17 could send me a close-up picture of the slide's extractor, breech and trademarks I would be very grateful.

I personally went with the c02 version and even though I've heard they're prone to leaks and other issues I decided I'd just buy a few extra magazines because of this.

If there is anything you think I should know about these guns please feel free to help me out by letting me know. If you only feel like posting to tell me I wasted my money or to stay away from cheap chinese clones then please refrain from doing so. I have already made my decision and it's already on it's way to my address. Just so you know (for those who also may be interested in Bell GBB pistols) I plan to do a very in depth review full of beautiful hi-def pictures after a few days of tinkering with it, and then updating it after a month or two to let you know how it has been holding up.)

Thank you in advance to those whom reply, it is greatly appreciated.

[MaybeStopCalling]

In my experience (About a couple dozen Glock type pistols through my hands), nothing really has fit on the Bell guns without significant modification. While it is based off of a TM design in execution, the tolerances are much looser, and the edges much sharper - hence the cheaper price. Same with the WE - based off the TM design, but with tolerances different enough that they're nearly their own class of gun. Some have also come through my possession with extremely weak springs. Nice case though.

Some Guarder frames are already iffy with Tokyo Marui Glock 17s, let alone a Bell. WE/HK3P frames require a Safety Tag delete to function correctly. You may have to sand and adjust accordingly. All Glock 17 frames have a fatal defect in the front screw post - I would estimate this flaw will show itself earlier, rather than later, in the Bell Glock 17. A Tokyo Marui Glock 17 was my first build - I would argue that having invested in a gun where the tolerances were good enough that most parts dropped in, made it a much safer project gun, compared to a TM/HK3P/KJW Glock 19 I put together, where everything didn't fit and sanding made the difference between too tight, perfect fit, and ruined parts. But you've made your choice.

As per your desired parts:

- Don't bother with a separate extractor. I have one, and it does nothing. At that price point? Not worth the investment of probably ruining a new slide.

- If your gun is firing well enough, leave the magazine valve alone. I haven't seen an upgrade valve that was worth my money. For the record, I use stock WE magazines in a TM.

- Hammer: Hammers are finicky. Very finicky. Someone else will have to chime in - even the hammers for TM Glocks need adjustment and filing, in my experience (Again, stock one here, several thousand rounds.) See if your hammer spring experiences light strikes, then upgrade if you have to. These guns can fire CO2 so I doubt it.

- Night sights: Nice to have ones are Guarder steel, if you can find them.

My honest advice? Use the gun to see how a GBB works, and ride it into the ground. You'll have enough experience with them to pursue a rewarding project then. Otherwise you're setting yourself for a lot of heartbreak - and I've been there, lining up to buy a TM after my cheap KSC project failed.

[Styrak]

Besides the fact that Bell is pretty low quality and tolerances/QC will be bad, you went with a possibly-not-compatible-with-anything Glock as a project gun you want to put aftermarket parts on?

Not the greatest idea. You'll probably be in for a lot of headaches that you wouldn't have with, say, a TM, since aftermarkets parts are built to TM spec.

[Activist]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Besides the fact that Bell is pretty low quality and tolerances/QC will be bad, you went with a possibly-not-compatible-with-anything Glock as a project gun you want to put aftermarket parts on?

Not the greatest idea. You'll probably be in for a lot of headaches that you wouldn't have with, say, a TM, since aftermarkets parts are built to TM spec.

I see the logic in what you're saying - but at $150 the risk isn't so great. Thank you for your input styrak!

[Activist]

Originally Posted by MaybeStopCalling

In my experience (About a couple dozen Glock type pistols through my hands), nothing really has fit on the Bell guns without significant modification. While it is based off of a TM design in execution, the tolerances are much looser, and the edges much sharper - hence the cheaper price. Same with the WE - based off the TM design, but with tolerances different enough that they're nearly their own class of gun. Some have also come through my possession with extremely weak springs. Nice case though.

Some Guarder frames are already iffy with Tokyo Marui Glock 17s, let alone a Bell. WE/HK3P frames require a Safety Tag delete to function correctly. You may have to sand and adjust accordingly. All Glock 17 frames have a fatal defect in the front screw post - I would estimate this flaw will show itself earlier, rather than later, in the Bell Glock 17. A Tokyo Marui Glock 17 was my first build - I would argue that having invested in a gun where the tolerances were good enough that most parts dropped in, made it a much safer project gun, compared to a TM/HK3P/KJW Glock 19 I put together, where everything didn't fit and sanding made the difference between too tight, perfect fit, and ruined parts. But you've made your choice.

As per your desired parts:

- Don't bother with a separate extractor. I have one, and it does nothing. At that price point? Not worth the investment of probably ruining a new slide.

- If your gun is firing well enough, leave the magazine valve alone. I haven't seen an upgrade valve that was worth my money. For the record, I use stock WE magazines in a TM.

- Hammer: Hammers are finicky. Very finicky. Someone else will have to chime in - even the hammers for TM Glocks need adjustment and filing, in my experience (Again, stock one here, several thousand rounds.) See if your hammer spring experiences light strikes, then upgrade if you have to. These guns can fire CO2 so I doubt it.

- Night sights: Nice to have ones are Guarder steel, if you can find them.

My honest advice? Use the gun to see how a GBB works, and ride it into the ground. You'll have enough experience with them to pursue a rewarding project then. Otherwise you're setting yourself for a lot of heartbreak - and I've been there, lining up to buy a TM after my cheap KSC project failed.

Thank you sir for taking the time to make this post. I greatly appreciate it!

[BloodSport]

Originally Posted by Activist

I see the logic in what you're saying - but at $150 the risk isn't so great. Thank you for your input styrak!

For about $50 to $100 more you can get KJW which is far better quality and bang for your $$$ over Bell......

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by BloodSport

For about $50 to $100 more you can get KJW which is far better quality and bang for your $$$ over Bell......

... or a TM G17 for $250 D:

[BloodSport]

Originally Posted by BioRage

... or a TM G17 for $250 D:

^^ Ths, TM = top of the line all others cloned them

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by BloodSport

For about $50 to $100 more you can get KJW which is far better quality and bang for your $$$ over Bell......

The Glock is still the worst gun that KJW has made.

[Activist]

I just figured I'd be the guinea pig and put out the information to the internet for people who were like me and wanted to learn about these clones but failed to find any good information. Once it gets here I'll do a thorough review with lots of pictures. After that... Well... If it ends up being just a pretty wall piece (with trades) then I'll still be happy with my purchase and other potential buyers of bell products will have some detailed info to work with

Keep in mind for the time being I'm just a chairsofter so reliability and performance aren't factors that matter to me at this point. Once I get av'd and check out a game I'll make sure to have better weapons

[BloodSport]

Originally Posted by Activist

I just figured I'd be the guinea pig and put out the information to the internet for people who were like me and wanted to learn about these clones but failed to find any good information. Once it gets here I'll do a thorough review with lots of pictures. After that... Well... If it ends up being just a pretty wall piece (with trades) then I'll still be happy with my purchase and other potential buyers of bell products will have some detailed info to work with

Keep in mind for the time being I'm just a chairsofter so reliability and performance aren't factors that matter to me at this point. Once I get av'd and check out a game I'll make sure to have better weapons

there has been lots of reviews on the bell clones, majority of them are not good. no need to be a guinea pig

[ccyg8774]

I have a Bell NO. 741-2 (a G17 with slightly different external). Don't plan to upgrade it, but maybe I can try to put my WE or TM slide assembly on that and see.
Bell has an OK reputation among airsofters in China, but:
1. Chinese airsofters don't have much choices about airsoft guns, and sometimes have to accept lower standard on guns (but at least they know that the GAS Brand sucks).
2. Those Chinese brands occasionally get raided by Chinese government, and may or may not revive later. The ARMY Armament now is not the same ARMY Armament few years ago. Tercel was also once raided and got another factory to revive. Not sure about Bell but this kind of revival typically means a change (read: decline) in quality.

[Cliffradical]

I've done stuff like this, and the experience does have value.
That said, I'd suggest that if you persue this project, just shift your goals and expectations a 'little bit to the left' so to speak.

Buy your Bell, don't do anything to it initially. Run it, plink it, disassemble it and figure it out. Start a swear jar or something for that TM, and just grind the Bell into the ground.
Once you've got your TM (you'll want one eventually), your Bell will be beaten in as well as known to you mechanically. This will give you a good reference point so you can really pick out the differences between the two, and exactly the kind of work you'll need to do to modify or improve the Bell.
It's pretty much the same plan that you have, but extended over a longer period of time.

I have no experience with Bell GBBPs, but if other users are suggesting a KJW over one, I'd jump in with them on that.
KJs are pretty much as 'low end' as I'll go on a GBBP and still expect the thing to work reliably. They're generally regarded as a pretty decent company for sidearms, just with no frills.

My WE M9 as compared to my KJ M9 is a pretty sad little gun. A lot of parts look like they should interchange, but most don't. Some will individually, but put the whole thing together and the slides won't swap.

If people are comparing Bells to WE as equal or lesser, you'd probably end up happier with a KJW.

Edit:
So it's clear that I'm not just hating on WEs, I had a WE 1911 and I actually loved that thing. It was just abundantly clear that it was a dead-end for serious upgrades or mods, so I enjoyed it for what it was. Good enough for use as a typical airsoft sidearm, very loud, fun recoil, worked fine. The mag it came with was flaky, but the extra I bought was a-ok. Lack of cross-compatibility with mags is ultimately what killed it for me, because if I was going to have a beater/ vanity gun I wanted one that could draw from the same resource pool as the eventual hot-shit-fancy-pants one I wanted to build.
Something to consider.

[BioRage]

(AD)
Cheapest bell G17 $150 + tax..

(M1)
Cheapest TM G17 with smoked frame is $199.99 + tax
Cheapest TM G17 with solid frame is $250 + tax

extra $50-100 ish won't break the bank, and it'll last you 10 x longer.

To each their own, just tired of seeing people buying cheap shit to have it break after 2 mags, lol.

[Swattiger]

Originally Posted by BioRage

(AD)
Cheapest bell G17 $150 + tax..

(M1)
Cheapest TM G17 with smoked frame is $199.99 + tax
Cheapest TM G17 with solid frame is $250 + tax

extra $50-100 ish won't break the bank, and it'll last you 10 x longer.

To each their own, just tired of seeing people buying cheap shit to have it break after 2 mags, lol.

+1. And spend tons of money and effort to fix it.